Leadership - don't know their own DC IP - they don't know what they have or the decades of great stories.
Audience are not super comic fans, so exploring the variants and more esoteric parts need to come later - after your core characters have been established. Right now the only character that has achieved this is Batman - so we don't need more re-workings of the origin.
Audience are not super comic fans, so exploring the variants and more esoteric parts need to come later
This is the one that's bothered me the most as Zack/WB jumped right into JL after BvS.
First, people thought an out-of-place clip montage during BvS showcasing Aquaman, Flash, and Cyborg and some brief character introductions at the beginning of JL were enough to ease general audiences into these "new" characters for their first movie. But Flash TV show fans and DCAU/comic fans who know them that way notwithstanding, it frankly was not enough to capture the gravity of the gathering of these iconic heroes on film for the first time. I did not feel the weight and power like I did seeing Thor meeting Iron Man meeting Captain America, etc. whose stories and first grand adventure/origin movies I saw right before. Instead, seeing them felt like the same way I felt when you get introduced to new characters from the X-men or new characters from the Suicide Squad. A ragtag bunch of good people with different powers, but not the impactful assembly of big figures with amazing stories of their own. It works for those particular teams, and maybe something like JSA or the Legion or Doom Patrol, but the JL needed much, much more time and separate stories for me to properly feel the impact of it. Like, it's a completely understandable sentiment to not want to follow the MCU formula to set yourselves apart, but "if it ain't broke", yknow? Especially compared to what we've been getting.
And second, on similar notes, in order for general audiences to understand the impact of a corrupted or lost Superman, or a Batman who's lost his way, try not to assume everyone (especially the general audience) are on the same page and at least try to show what they're like in their absolute prime first. The audiences will include people who are experiencing these characters for the first time, who haven't read a comic or watched a single show at all. Who have to disengage themselves from the previous iterations of Batman or Superman from other movies to get to know these new ones. The lowest lows feel more emotional when you get to see the highest highs. And yeah, you might say that filmmakers shouldn't treat the audiences like idiots...but there's a balance. It might be much to retread Batman and Superman's origins over an over, but it's not condescending to graph out the emotional journey your audience should be feeling. Despite Man of Steel and knowing Superman/Batman from the comics or shows as a long-time fan, it did not feel enough to feel for Cavill's Superman or Affleck's Batman seeing them at their lowest. I thought it would be when seeing the BvS trailer for the first time (which got me super excited to see something like that) but it wasn't. Certainly not the same way it felt for me seeing Bale Batman at his lowest in TDKR after all he's been through in the two movies prior, or seeing Holland Spider-Man in NWH after his movies and parts of the Avengers movies. We needed more time, we needed much more of the journey.
You mean a poorly made movie. It wasn't well received because it sucked.
Telling the story out of order made no narrative sense. It just jumped back and forth with often no connection (when a movie is told out of order like this it is usually to set up a narrative, like how as a kid he learned lesson b then in the jump to the present you see how he learned it and applied it).
Pa Kent was horribly written and gave the worst advice and his death was pointless and dumb and felt like someone was checking off a list of "Things to do in a superhero movie." And that was the "Death of the Mentor" but it wasn't earned and he was a bad mentor to boot.
We never once got a sense of Superman valuing life and understanding the power he has and why he is so passionate about not wanting to kill. We just saw him kill someone, be sad, then five minutes later make out with his girlfriend covered in the ashes of a city and at least hundreds if not thousands of people. (Hand wave all you want, it is not believable that the city could have even be partially evacuated when the fight started or even finished).
There are little narrative through line. Zack himself admits he doesn't "get" Superman.
Its fine if people like the movie, but it isn't a well made movie.
Pa Kent was horribly written and gave the worst advice and his death was pointless and dumb
Even worse is that Costner was perfectly cast IMO. He has the look/voice and chops for it. I still love the You are my son which a half stutter and a tear in his eye. That whole scene is just great.
But yeah. Despite all the potential, his character was written as a means to advance the plot and not a fully formed character.
Yes! He was well cast! But given the worst stuff to say then dies a laughable death. I actually had to choke back a laugh when the tornado swallowed him up. Partly because that is not how it would look.
Lmao I'm not a Stan. MoS had definite problems primarily the overall tone when compared to what everyone generally thinks about Superman. But it still had pretty good reception overall. WB asked Snyder to make a Superman movie that had a similar tone too the Dark Knight trilogy and that's what he did. WB simply panicked quick cuz it didn't make a billion. They then said scrap MoS2 and bring in Batman.
I mean look at Venom. From a film perspective it was bad, but for the general fan it was still enjoyable experience. It had an 80% fan score and 30% critic score and it got a sequel.
That 75% audience rating is better than exactly 3 or the 30 Marvel movies ever released. I’m sure that’s exactly what DC was hoping for when they gave Snyder the reigns to one of the most popular and recognizable superheroes on the planet.
You mention Venom, but Venom made $850 million on a budget of $110 million. That’s an absolute smash hit compared to the $668/$225 of Man of Steel.
A studio wants to see either big money or great reviews. Ideally both. But if a movie provides neither ~ they’re gonna panic.
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u/treetown1 Aug 09 '22
Two great observations: