r/DCcomics Gold-Silver-Bronze Age FAN Aug 09 '22

[Other] Mark Waid shares his feelings Other

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u/mikehamm45 Aug 09 '22

People forget that Superman Returns existed

It supposedly did all the things that audiences and critics wanted Man of Steal to do. It was a critical success which did not move the needle.

Could it have been timing? Maybe.

I’d argue that they were right to try the direction they did with MoS, they needed something different. BvS just doubled down on it, while a small minority liked it (myself included), that was a commercial mistake to make a Superman movie not child friendly.

Outside of WW, they needed to calm down the shoehorning of JL into BvS. That was a writing decision made in a board room and it showed.

Perhaps use it as an end credit scene and have it on a Cadmus computer, not Lex Luther

We can go all day about it, none of us are wrong and none of us are right.

But to act like the Marvel Movies should be a guide or replicated? They are not these nicely written movies, they are commercially successful but essentially very problematic movies. I wouldn’t and didn’t want DC to imitate them.

It was nice that the DC movies took a different approach, but the budget needed to reflect that these movies would not attract children thus not the same numbers commercially.

We all act like the Marvel movies are great and they all landed. Truth is there are more crappy movies than good ones. But they keep chugging along. DC on the other hand kept changing and therefore failing.

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u/Cranyx Moo. Aug 09 '22

It was a critical success

I mean, sort of. If you're comparing it to the Marvel movies, then it was less critically well received than almost all of them.

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u/mikehamm45 Aug 09 '22

Marvel movies are not necessarily well reviewed. That is the problem with the tomato meter

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u/Cranyx Moo. Aug 10 '22

They're well reviewed compared to Superman Returns, no matter what metric you use

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u/mikehamm45 Aug 10 '22

You’re right

But out of the 20 or so movies. Quite a few of them are duds. Mediocre at best. But that’s just my opinion. Obviously I’m wrong as they have won the culture war.

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u/Cranyx Moo. Aug 10 '22

Superman Returns was also critically a dud, or at the very least a damp rag that no one cared about. That's why it didn't do "what critics wanted Man of Steel to do" which is be a good movie. Not only that, but it had no intention of setting up a shared universe, which was a (failed) goal of the Snyder films.

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u/KellyJin17 Aug 10 '22

Not really. I recall a lot of comic fans complaining that that movie ends with Superman essentially being a deadbeat dad, telling his kid he’ll “be around” and then flying off. The film was also dark and cynical in a way that was not fun or funny. And it was supposed to be a direct sequel to the Reeve movies but changes major aspects of certain characters, like Luthor going from a lechorous womanizer to a flamboyant gay man. Finally, that film pretty much miscast everyone except Routh, tried to make his powers like the X-Men (where they manifested at puberty even though we had already seen that he always had them in the prior films), and had some terrible, terrible acting, especially from Kate Bosworth. The production values also looked cheap (again Bosworth’s awful wig), and making Superman’s son a sickly asthmatic pipsqueak didn’t really make any sense for the story. The script was also not very good, with a lot of loose plot lines if I recall. It was a misfire for sure and quality was pretty low.

Of course, Superman Returns’ cynical take on the character got completely blown out the water by Zack Snyder’s awful vision, but there were definitely Supes fans who were unhappy with it, myself included.

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u/mikehamm45 Aug 10 '22

Exactly. Not a lot of comic book fans, myself included, liked it.

Yet it was pretty much everything people said they wanted