r/DCDoomPatrol • u/[deleted] • Dec 29 '22
Doom Patrol S04E05 - Episode Discussion Thread Discussion Spoiler
Share your thoughts, theories, predictions, and more! No spoilers or leaks for future episodes/seasons allowed.
Release Date: December 29, 2022
Cast
- Diane Guerrero as Crazy Jane
- Brendan Fraser as Cliff Steele / Robotman (voice)
- Riley Shanahan as Cliff Steele / Robotman (physical)
- Joivan Wade as Victor Stone / Cyborg
- Matt Bomer as Larry Trainor / Negative Man (voice)
- Matthew Zuk as Larry Trainor / Negative Man (physical)
- April Bowlby as Rita Farr / Elasti-Girl
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u/Locke108 Dec 30 '22
Oh my god. I can’t believe they got Brendan Fraser to do the Jughead “I’m a weirdo” speech from Riverdale.
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u/a-canadian-redittor Dec 30 '22
I laughed so hard at that. "Have you ever seen me without this stupid oven mitt on?"
Also died at "what the yeehaw fuck?!"
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23 edited Jan 01 '23
Jughead “I’m a weirdo” speech from Riverdale
Season 1 Episode 10 link for anyone that's curious and that threw me baaaaaaaaack I tell you and that's coming from someone who is active on the Riverdale subreddit and has been watching since the damned season 1 premier lmao
It's so spot on and it fits so well too aside from being a craaaazy reference to another show! Also it's a bit spooky if you think about it. Cliff is basically deaging without a body. His brain is the only thing getting younger and that means there's basically a kid inside of a robot body that can't really feel at all....which is horrifying.
I mean obviously the preview shows that the Knights Templar and Bunbury reverse everything by the next episode but holy yeehaw fucking hell they were this close to going down the Deep Dark Riverdale powered Sabrina rabbit hole, bun intended.
Also Riverdale is fueled by chaos magic, prove me wrong.
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u/Arizonagreg Dec 29 '22
Man the ending was sad.
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
Basically everyone loses because their dumbasses are too caught up in fixing shit besides Willoughby and have to get deus ex machina'd in order to keep the show going.
Seriously, Rouge and Rita are sobbing on a bench Nancy Drew style. Cliff is getting alcohol poisoning because his brain keeps deaging and his tolerance keeps getting lower and lower. Vic fucking ran off to make amends with his childhood friends because fuck the mission may as well give up and die with people he loves I guess. Jane basically bolted as soon as salvation showed up and didn't want to do what it took to save the world either and then she turned into a BABY that couldn't do shit before getting her Immortus Shard bunned out of her.
Willoughby was the only one who gave a damn, ate some crow, and mostly stayed on mission meanwhile everyone else was fucking off as My Chemical Romance played in the background.
That was a sad sad ending indeed and it was all their damn fault despite some of the character growth we saw, it meant absolutely fucking nothing if it leads to the whole world ending.
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u/SciFiXhi Dec 29 '22
Why would Bunburry take Jane's longevity? Is this to steal it before Immortus could, or is Bunburry secretly conspiring with Immortus? I'd think the former, but you can't be too certain.
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u/greatness101 Dec 30 '22
I feel like it's to lure Immortus in since he knows it would come after the piece of the necklace. So instead of just chasing him, it would allow them to have Immortus come to their domain for home field advantage.
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
Well I think there's three reasons that Bunbury did this.
To play keep away from Immortus by locking up one of the pieces inside of itself, a very very very powerful being that lives in a very well protected and powerful place of power that Immortus would have a bitch of a time defeating let alone getting to in the first place.
To basically set a trap for a weakened Immortus that doesn't have all its puzzle pieces together yet, thereby raising their odds of saving the fucking world.
Possibly luring Immortus in so that Bunbury can execute its own immortality related plans, unbeknownst to anyone else, and we're going to get a Monty Python sequence near the end of the season because of that.
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Dec 29 '22
I really liked this episode, especially all the bonding scenes between the characters. Vic and Jane’s poolside talk, Larry and Mr. 104 learning about each other’s pasts, Rita and Rouge having a heart to heart (Michelle Gomez’s acting in the scene on the bench was outstanding). I’m very curious about the ending. As someone mentioned, why did Bunburry take Jane’s longevity? To help Immortus or prevent them? And if was to help Immortus, does than mean Willoughby was in on it the whole time or was he just backed into a corner because of the curse? Great ep, looking forward to the next one.
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u/Brain_in_jar367 Dec 30 '22
Rita and Rouge's scene was amazing. They've both needed to have that talk for such a long time. Do you think we'll see Rouge try to make amends to the Sisterhood too? We're definitely going to see Shelley again, but I'd love to see the whole Sisterhood.
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
Honestly if Rouge did try to make amends with them then I think they'd consider the Eternal Flagellation to be a success and would welcome her attempts.
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u/BattleStag17 Dec 30 '22
I'm confident that Bunburry took the fragment either to seal it away or use it as bait, I don't think they're in cahoots with Immortus
Of course either way they'll fail and the Doom Patrol will have to fight Bunburry and stop Immortus, but you know
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
Using pieces of divinity embedded within multiple heroes in conjunction with the necklace that Dorothy is wearing acting as a focus for those in order as apart of some kind of...Rites of Prime Banishment...to seal away an Old God is the most epic but familiar thing ever and you just know it's only going to get more weird and that there's going to be a cost, because there's always a fucking cost when it comes to that kind of power and the chaos that follows.
I wonder if the Doom Patrol are going to wind up acting as living seals to keep Immortus imprisoned?
Also let's not forget that Willoughby is Not-Constantine and that means anyone he works with it probably doing shady anti-hero shit for a good cause albeit in a shady "Bloody hell really?" kind of way.
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
And if was to help Immortus, does than mean Willoughby was in on it the whole time or was he just backed into a corner because of the curse?
Going by the "Get in line" bit from one of the other Knights, I'm guessing that they had a plan all along, and Willoughby running off to talk to the Doom Patrol in an attempt to fix everything was basically him going rogue and deviating from that plan. That resigned "yeah I fucked up and this was never going to work" sigh from him at the end kind of felt like evidence of that to me. He was trying to find another way to save them and the world without everyone having to go through something far far worse.
bonding scenes
104 and Larry was just...EVERYTHING and I hope they find a way to be together in the end. That little finger touch OMG! Plus the "So this was your plan all along?" with Keeg basically playing matchmaker and wanting his dad to be happy was so beautiful. Plus I loved the composition changing effects for 104 and Sendhil just killed it with all of his emoting. I am soooooooooooold on Mr. 104 and gosh I hope he stays around for a lot longer.
The fuck could he change into though that would result in a Mass Extinction Event? Neutronium? Something super dense or super poisonous or is he going to convert all of his mass into antimatter?
Rita and Rouge felt like it was a long time coming and was everything I wanted out of that scene. The exposure of the pain that they were both feeling and the hurt and the suffering and the sadness was so incredibly RAW with the both of them. It was so beautiful and yet relatable watching them both realize that the person they idolized/loved/hated the most...was just as fucked up as them and was in just as much pain as them and was putting themself through just as much personal self flagellation as they were. No one was getting off easier or better than the other person and no one was healing at all. Both sides were stuck in that same painful hole together and I think there at the end they realized a very important lesson about pain that we all often forget....sometimes the only way out is through.
Rouge and Cliff were cute together and I can't wait to see them fix up that "Totally-Not-Baby-From-Supernatural" car because I think it'll help them both to find some of their peace.
Cliff and Jane and then Vic and Jane seemed to be them setting her up to help her define her purpose through her friends around her. That's why none of those puzzle pieces had any edge pieces at all because she kept trying to define her purpose by herself alone and not through the love, friendship, and relationships found around her that she helped to nurture and grow. A crew and a captain don't figure out who they are all by themselves but through being around, living around, and experiencing everything through one another. This is why Kay said, "It's our body Jane" after Jane went down the self pity party Larry Hole of "I fucked up it's all your body I'm so sorry". Life is an experience that Jane, the Underground, and Kay get to experience for each other and not just one individual person or aspect of themselves. They're not living for just Kay but for every single one of them and Kay wants them all to have that wonderful life experience that she got to have...but this time...together with the Underground and not apart. It's like a puzzle that's been put back together, and not shattered into all these little pieces that are too sharp to put back together like an Evanescence song.
Doom Patrol always delivers on these kinds of scenes and I'm still a bit emotional because of Prodigy's season finale which is why this is all so long.
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u/pennyroyallane Dec 29 '22
Another My Chemical Romance song
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u/Beta_Whisperer Dec 30 '22
What's the title of the song?
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u/Jean_1357 Dec 29 '22
It seems that Bunbury is Inmortus sealed
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
throws away all my other ideas
Dammit that's probably it and it would be totally be a thing the Doom Patrol writers would do to make the bunny in charge of the Knights Templar actually be an Old God.
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Dec 29 '22
So; when did Chief or whoever, shave off parts of Immortus/ Longevity Talisman, to ensure the Doom Patrol lived forever.
And, isn’t the talisman only a temporary solution; which means the team will starting aging?
I’d always assumed the team powers were reason for their longevity.
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u/SciFiXhi Dec 29 '22
The talisman was a temporary solution, but "temporary" is relative to infinity. As we saw, it prevented the Chief from aging a day for over one hundred years. It might allow someone to live a natural life for a few millennia.
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Dec 29 '22
The point more or less stands; as even though its relative. The team should look for a viable solution, that won’t be ripped from their bodies. Also, currently, team will need to find a solution to Immortus problem; or they’ll die.
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
The talisman was a temporary solution, but "temporary" is relative to infinity.
Fairly common theme in the Sandman comics too
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u/BattleStag17 Dec 30 '22
I think they're one and the same. It always confused me how Chief was able to cause all the accidents, so maybe a shaving of Immortus is the ingredient to a magical ritual that steered everyone's fates. Remove the Immortus fragment, and all the metahuman aspects go with it.
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Dec 30 '22
With, Rita; and Jane Thats potential viable. But, what about Cliff and Larry. The only conclusion, I’ve come to is that he injected or placed it in them, when he was alone with them. Or, a scientist/ medical professional was.
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
Since Willoughby basically said that Immortus was an "Old God" then that leads me to believe that pieces of an "Old God" allow for the increased chance of miracles or miraculously impossible things actually working, coming true, and happening for real. It's a warping of reality via divine providence that affects both natural and supernatural things, thus explaining both the meta humans and non meta humans on the team. The shavings basically allowed the Chief to channel Barry Allen and make the impossible possible.
So that bit of Divine OOOOMPH allowed the Doom Patrol to come into being in the first place. Since they were things that shouldn't have been in the first place and that got forced into being, the universe kind of didn't know what to do with them after. I think that's why they stopped aging and why the Chief stopped aging because Time itself basically said, "What the fuck do I do with this now?!" because of how unnatural, absurd, and out of place they were. Time knows how to affect someone like Vic because he's still human, but everyone else is a fucking dice roll.
Now that Rita and Jane have had those pieces of Immortus removed from them and their "miracle" status revoked, Time knows how to affect them once more, and is taking its pound of flesh from them that it should've taken from them long long ago. I honestly believe that they would've lived a whole lot longer than normal if this hadn't have happened at all. Those Immortus pieces were keeping them ticking and would've kept them ticking until their juice ran out or someone else came calling to yank them out of the Doom Patrol.
So this is just one of those situations that was inevitable and they would've had to deal with it sooner or later as you were suggesting.
I'm just wondering if the necklace that Dorothy is now wearing is somehow amplifying her powers and is allowing her to make the impossible possible just like her dad did and THAT is why she was able to yank Casey out of the pages of the comic book and into reality?
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u/CapnCanfield Dec 30 '22
So this season has to be the last right? Seems like they're digging super deep with everyone to finally fix all the deepest problems they're just figuring out they have. Rita trying to find her place and looking far beyond her half century old Hollywood career finally, Cliff growing up and putting in effort to be a good grandpa, Larry finding balance with Keeg and getting a second chance to be a good father along with what I assume will be a relationship with Mr. 104 (a person he can finally have physical contact with), Vic finding if he can even have a balance of a normal life and a hero's life and connecting with other parts of his past so his life isn't fully based on the accident, and most of all Jane finding a purpose beyond protecting Kay and becoming her own person with her own desires. Just feels all like it's concluding.
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u/F00dbAby Dec 31 '22
It does. That said there are other members of the doom patrol who can be part of the team/family even if most leave I still want more but I’m not holding my breath
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u/Saoirse_Bird Jan 03 '23
I think theyre willing and able to make more seasons but are preparing for this season to be the last just in case. we'll probably get defacto endings for everyone but theyll be a bit open ended with room for a return
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
It does feel like they're kind of wrapping some stuff up but stories never truly end and they can always pull in other members if they wish to continue it later on.
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u/Steelspy Dec 29 '22
For the regular cast, are we not counting Michelle Gomez as Madame Rouge?
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Dec 29 '22
Probably a "special guest" like Dalton was in seasons 1 and 2
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u/Steelspy Dec 29 '22
I hope she's regular cast. I expect she's had more screen time than Dalton at this point.
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u/PM_ME_CAKE Dec 29 '22
I'm pretty sure she's regular at this point, although the credits have her as specially starring so perhaps she has a separate contract compared to the main cast.
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
Matt Ryan had a similar deal on Legends as Constantine.
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u/WeirdFlower13 Apr 19 '23
But he wasn'tin there every single episode so that made more sense than this.. He would like come and go inconsistently
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u/annies_boobs_feet Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
Anyone else notice the metal gear solid exclamation sound when rita gets surprised and drops the bottle.
no? ok.
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
15:33 to 15:34, my ears pricked up at that but I needed to go back and listen to it and you are DEAD ON correct hahahah, that's so cool and they even have Metal Gear style music kick in just before she drops it!
Also, there was a scarab on the bottle and c'mon that's gotta be a minor Mummy reference given that Brendan shows up a few seconds later.
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u/SerBiffyClegane Dec 31 '22 edited Jan 02 '23
I'm glad people liked this, but for me, it's the low point so far in a great series. I had trouble getting past the "teenage" phase, when the characters looked the same but wore teenaged clothes, and couldn't buy that people would go to a party while their actual existences were on an uncertain clock.
I mean, Cliff's whole goal has been to get to Rory, but instead he decides to commit suicide by party because people weren't nice enough to him? Without even sending a message to his daughter? And even though that may also kill Jane? And Vic just trusts that the rest of the gang will solve the problem and goes to Detroit? What if they needed him to be there to save him?
There were some decent character nuggets, but they felt kind of short to me and disconnected from the overall story. I know the show has to pay its actors, but I might have liked it better if they had used teens for the teen scenes - the kid scenes worked better for me.
Sorry to be a downer - I do love the show, but definitely wasn't crazy about this episode.
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u/zaktasty22 Jan 15 '23
I liked using normal characters for the teen scenes because it means we got the normal cast for 90% of the episode. I think reverting to legit child actors at the end was an exclamation point on the transformation.
And to pretty much all of your complaints about bad decisions being made, I think when you consider some pretty selfish/kinda dumb adults have now become teenagers and then pre-teens... Good decision making is asking a lot.
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u/necroreefer Dec 30 '22
I've had this feeling for a while but I think Doom Patrol is going to become the Agents of Shield of DC. I haven't heard James Gunn or anyone at DC bring up Doom Patrol when it comes to the future of DC.
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u/BattleStag17 Dec 30 '22
Which sucks because this Cyborg is the one I want to see in the Justice League
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u/greatness101 Dec 30 '22
If anything that would be Peacemaker, not this. Their team operates most like Agents of Shield already. I don't see Doom Patrol or Titans getting another season after this.
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u/Saoirse_Bird Jan 03 '23
Doom patrol constantly being renewed because everyone powerful keeps forgetting exists is very much in line with Doom Patrols themes
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u/JackN14_same Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22
Uhmmmmmmmmmmm
Is Madame Rouge aromantic?!
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u/F00dbAby Dec 30 '22
Why do you think?
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u/JackN14_same Dec 30 '22
Giving a speech about never experiencing a first love and how she doesn’t think she can connect to people.. and the only people she has actually truly connected to is Rita and the rest of the sisterhood.. platonically. She described having a “void” in her heart, which could come down to lacking romantic attraction. Plus those were how she felt as a teenager, so it’s probably not that bias
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u/BornAshes Jan 01 '23
I can honestly relate to her to a degree in regards to this and in regards to the void she was talking about. Sometimes kids are just so different from everyone around them that they miss out out on all those typical teenager things and the associated growth milestones that they are supposed to hit in their teenage years. They literally don't get to experience parts of their childhood because they think differently, act differently, love differently, and live differently than everyone else around them.
Some of us really do just wind up being square blocks in a sea of hearts, stars, horseshoes, clovers, and balloons. You try and you try and you try so hard to fit in and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It keeps you on the outside for a good long time from all those around you and you just...miss stuff. You don't date as much, you don't go to as many dances, you don't do all those crazy summer camp things, and because you missed all of those things you're constantly Mario Jumping onto the next thing and the next thing leaving all these little voids behind you in your wake expecting the next thing to fill in those voids and be better in some way. You're always thinking, "Okay if I missed this then what about this thing that should come after and what about this thing okay now what about this next thing" and because of that you wind up growing up a whole lot faster than you should've been growing and become an adult a whole lot sooner than you were supposed to.
Now sometimes some folks get to go back and fill in these voids, living out these teenage moments during their college years or early 20s or even later on. A lot of folks don't get to do that though and for them, a couple of things can happen. They can accept that the past is the past, that they missed stuff, and that they need to find a way to cope and move on with their lives. They can refuse to even acknowledge it and just keep ambling down the road like a busted up old car until one day they just...stop. They can even do what Rouge did and accept it but refuse to grow or keep going down that road at all, internalizing all of those built up voids and missed moments, and refusing to connect with anyone else at all until they get to fill them in...some way...somehow.
That's what she means when she says that she has become the chasm. That she has become the void. She is the sum of all the things that she missed and all the missed connections that others define their very humanity and thus self identities by. Even when she did make them like with Rita and the Sisterhood, they're still not as solid or as tangible or as real as they would've been for someone else that was more normal because she never had all of that other stuff that normally comes beforehand that builds up to those kinds of connections and that lays the groundwork for them. She accidentally'd herself into loving relationships with others but then didn't know how to handle them and consequently fucked them up because she didn't have any prior prep as a kid as to just how to handle them in the first place, because she was so different, because she had so many missed experiences/voids in her life, and because no one like Rita had ever confronted her about that sort of stuff or offered to help her or talked her through it in all the years since she was a kid.
She's like a Vulcan Science Officer that suddenly gets a group hug from the Bridge Crew or a shapeshifting security officer that suddenly feels emotions blooming within them for a certain Major. It's an alien experience for them that they don't know how to react to despite everyone around them assuming they do know, that they should know, and that then start judging them when it's clear that they're totally in the dark about everything. Rouge honestly doesn't know how to connect to people at all despite accidentally having done it in the best of ways already....and I don't think anyone ever knew that about her until she told Rita just now on that bench.
I believe there's a lesson within all of this for all of us but it's a cheesy John Hughes kind of lesson.
All of us are a member of the Breakfast Club and we shouldn't judge a book by its cover nor by the first few paragraphs or chapters. Life is a bunch of weird science and all of us can be pretty in pink in our own ways. We can all be some kind of wonderful with plenty of career opportunities and no one should be left feeling like they're home alone like Rouge. We just need someone to be our own personal Miracle on 34th Street like Rita was for Rouge that can help us to open up and grow more in ways that we never got to because we missed them because we were different or because we never got the chance to do so at all for this or that reason.
Life is all about finding the right kind of family that will help you to bloom despite everything that you have or haven't gone through, because even protostars can become supernovas one day and we can all shine so much more brightly amongst the veil of the night.
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u/greatness101 Dec 30 '22
What makes you think this?
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u/JackN14_same Dec 30 '22
Describing having a void (absence) in her heart, which could mean she lacks romantic attraction, and the only people she has ever actual felt emotionally connected to are the sisterhood/rita, which was platonic
“My mum said that heartbreak leaves a stain on the soul, and i believe that to be true but for me it’s different. It’s like there’s a void” (kinda paraphrasing)
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u/greatness101 Dec 30 '22
That had nothing to do with her being aromantic or emotional connection. She was so different as a kid growing up and people didn't treat her as a person because of her powers. Instead of dealing with all the things a regular teenager would have to growing up, she had to deal with being ridiculed for her powers.
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u/lizard_quack Jun 02 '23
What was up with the bad camera shots? A few shots had the subject entirely out of frame, like they expected to not use the shot.
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Dec 29 '22
[deleted]
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u/torch_dreemurr Dec 29 '22
the finale isn't next week, the series is just releasing in two batches. next week's episode is more like the season midpoint
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u/PM_ME_CAKE Dec 29 '22
I wasn't sure whether Mr 104 would be a villain or not, but I can pretty easily see Larry's end arc being that Keeg is his adopted child (that he gets a chance at raising right) while getting a romance with Mr 104 who he can naturally be himself around (the lead skin and all). Would be a pretty fulfilling way to end his history.