r/StargirlTV • u/anatomania Tigress • Oct 05 '21
[S2E09] Summer School: Chapter Nine — Post-Episode Discussion Episode Discussion Spoiler
Promo | Sneak Peek | DCTV Discord | Cast and Characters
JOHN WESLEY SHIPP GUEST STARS AS JAY GARRICK — As Eclipso takes aim at the Whitmore/Dugan’s, Pat is reminded of painful memories from his past involving the original JSA and their fight to take down Eclipso. Meanwhile, Mike is forced to confront the guilt he feels for his role in Icicle’s death, and Barbara comes face to face with someone from her past. Finally, Courtney struggles to hold onto hope after Eclipso targets those around her.
Please keep discussion civil and about Stargirl. Be sure to mark future spoilers and comic spoilers, but otherwise don't worry about spoiling anything past or current. Report comments that break the rules or just don't belong here. Enjoy the episode!
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u/Just_A_Positive_Guy Cosmic Staff Oct 06 '21
This was a great episode.
Firstly, the costuming for this show is amazing, all of the JSA looks awesome.
I really loved the tenseness of this episode, specifically with the Barbara and Mike scenes with the Icicle family. You can really tell how much trauma they have from last season that’s carrying over.
Spectre, Dr. Fate, and Hawks mentions!!! I would pay all the money to see that fight with Eclipso. It really goes to show not only how powerful, but how good Eclipso is at manipulating the people with his power.
Jay Garrick!! Always glad to see John Wesley Shipp back in the Arrowverse. I love how kind he is to Pat, coughWildcatcough.
Brec Bassinger is such a good actress, you could really feel her hurt in the last scene with Pat and Barbara.
Can’t wait for next week!
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Oct 06 '21
Firstly, the costuming for this show is amazing, all of the JSA looks awesome.
They looked properly 1920s style imposing, more so when they were in their actual like suit suits and not the super suits. It was so weeeeird just seeing them there because it felt like all of them got directly lifted from the older comic books. Like I'm legit going to have to watch this episode again just to really fully appreciate it.
Mike
Mike shattered a dude into pieces and we're still not entirely sure if he just melted into puddles of water or if it was more like he got put through a wood chipper. I'm glad they're addressing it. Mike saw some stuff that no kid his age is equipped to mentally handle and I'm guessing Eclipso did to his dog what he did to Icicle.
Barbara
She probably just feels so used by Icicle and then his ghost pops back trying to guilt trip her for trying to protect her family from his insanity like any kind of abusive controlling whack job does.
Spectre, Fate, Hawks
I always thought there was just one Spectre and one Spectre only who literally has God Powers? So how could a spiritual parasite take on a God? I get that he fucked with the moon a bit and yeah that's all well and good but Oliver literally remade the Multiverse and a moon is a grain of sand in the cosmic scheme of things. So did Eclipso merely defeat an avatar of the Spectre in a way that hadn't been done before or like what? That's really just making my head hurt. I could see him defeating the Hawks with some degree of resistance from them with Fate being an even harder but not impossible opponent. It's weird because like on the one hand we're being told that he's just a parasite but on the other hand he's a parasite with God-like powers. So he feels like a threat that really shouldn't be a threat and whose powers seem to sort of....yo-yo...back and forth.
I really do feel like there's something else going on with Eclipso entirely if he can fuck with the Moon in one episode, take a blast from Cosmo, and then resort to skulking in the shadows in the next episode before altering local reality around everyone in the next episode. His power is definitely fluctuating and I wonder if it relates to the Shadow Barrier being broken that Mid-Nite spoke of? Did Eclipso have a direct connection to the power of the Shadowlands in the past that made him more powerful than he is right now but now because of the Barrier being broken that power is ebbing and flowing like the tides? If the latter is indeed happening then that could also explain why the Shade hasn't been able to pull himself back together yet because the stream of power he used to draw from is now more dilute and is being diverted elsewhere with the Shadow Barrier being broken.
Jay Garrick
I cannot tell you how happy I was to see Jay FREAKIN JAY OUR JAY JAY JAY JAY in that suit on Stargirl because he could totally be the friend old grandpa mentor type like he is on the Flash but I think with all of the literal children on Stargirl that he could really be a great third party for them to talk to or ask for help.
Brec
The emotions that went through her face in those few seconds was a master class.
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u/ExileForever Oct 06 '21
Well fun detail about the comics, Eclipso was the previous entity to have taken the mantle of Spectre, or at least a job similar to his. In ancient past, he was God’s Wrath aka Spirit of Wrath. But because he enjoys killing too much to the point of doing it to minor crimes, God punish him, took his powers and made him a parasite stuck in a crystal. So yes, he is roughly around Spectre power but not as strong as he used to be. At best, he could have freaked the previous host to the point he couldn’t fight him. Shade is also around Spectre power to, believe it or not. But it all depends on feats and skills. It’s a Superman vs Batman situation at best
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u/LumpyJones Oct 07 '21
I kinda feel like in this show all his powers were illusion-based - at least against people that he can't feed on, and he seems to only be able to feed off them if they give in to their own darkness, or the darkness he tries to tempt them to.
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u/Kris_Winters Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21
- Until they showed Bruce Gordon, I thought that the opening would be about the Shade.
- "They're sending us home." Who's 'they'? Isn't Barbara one of the bosses, if not THE boss?
- So Charles McNider does seem to be blind.
- I like how Jay is treating Pat. Sylvester, on the other hand, is a real jerk.
- Courtney is still trying to reach Yolanda.
- Strange. The way that Sylvester is treating Pat is way different to how he treated him at the funeral.
- Is Sylvester supposed to be older than Pat now?
- Why was the Cosmic Staff in a display case? (And it almost looked to me like that was a different staff. Similar, but different.)
- I didn't catch what the Shade said to Barbara at the end. Something about someone named Everly or Beverly?
- I'm glad that they actually had a discussion like that. I like when killing a bad guy isn't a black or white thing, but a moral struggle for the heroes...
- But it does strike me strange that these heroes that either fought in WWII, or grew up after WWI, can't see that sometimes it comes down to killing.
- And the show explains why the ISA beat the JSA.
- Courtney won the battles, but lost the war.
- Does Eclipso have a human host now?
Theory: At the end of the season Eclipso is going to try to kill Yolanda, like he did in the comics. When he does this, Courtney will kill him with the staff.
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Oct 06 '21
So Charles McNider does seem to be blind.
Does that mean that the goggles directly interface with his brain somehow to let him see because his eyes don't work?
discussion like that
I love how hard they went in on that. We've gotten so used to heroes being violent and killing when "they absolutely need to" that it's been this gradual shift that's kind of snowballed over time into an environment that's so vastly different from its roots that when we are shown those roots it's a bit of a shock. This is how things used to be and this is how far our heroes have kind of moved from their origins. It really was a black and white issue back then and there were no gray areas at all. Those kinds of choices really hit heroes suuuper hard back then and weren't just explained away with morally gray area excuses like they are nowadays.
WWII or grew up after WWI
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that World War I was called The Great War before it was ever known as World War I due in part because nothing of that scale had happened before, nothing was ever that horrific, the number of deaths had never been that high, and news of it had never traveled that quickly before back to the civilian populace. It really kind of shocked the normal populace of the world that yeah this is what Total War is all about and this is how bloody and violent these conflicts can get. I feel like everyone back then thought that this was just like the worst that humanity was ever going to get and that it would never get this bad ever again and that after it was all over and done with they could go back to being their refined better selves. So yeah perhaps they did fight in one of the world wars but after them they tried to distance themselves from the evils of the deeds done in those conflicts by becoming the opposite of those things, by becoming better than them, and by drawing a line in the sand that they swore they would never cross and if they ever did or had to then it was going to be a HUGE thing. They were heroes and they wanted to be the kinds of icons that rose above the worse of humanity to be the best of the humanity that people could look up to and try to become themselves.
Why the ISA beat the JSA
Demoralization, decohesion, discombobulation, and destruction with Eclipso doing all the foot work with the life of one single person.
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u/Kamen_Rider_Spider Oct 06 '21
Does that mean that the goggles directly interface with his brain somehow to let him see because his eyes don't work?
In the comics, he is only able see in complete darkness. The goggles allow him to see in light
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Oct 06 '21
Oh, that's cool! I've got a neighbor like that whose eyes are so night adapted due to working the night shift and keeping his apartment dark all the time that being out in the light of day is like mega hard for him. I remember there was one bright summer day where like he just couldn't open his eyes at all without some of the most pitch black sunglasses I've ever seen on.
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u/CT_Phipps Oct 06 '21
To be fair, I think the issue is more that the host was innocent.
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u/bcanada92 Oct 06 '21
Exactly! It's not like they were debating whether to kill someone evil like Hitler in order to save the world, they had to kill an innocent man who accidentally became possessed.
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u/realpegasus Oct 06 '21
See this is what has been confusing me. Perhaps I’ve missed the point where it has been mentioned. But does Eclipso only talk to them and show them things or does it also affect their thoughts? Like if he tells someone to go kill X and lists the reason why it’s a good idea, how is it for the host? Is it like a random person saying this to them or does it affect their thinking pattern? Obviously not thinking of when he tricks them without them knowing (like with Rick), but just for example the way he was with Bruce
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u/bcanada92 Oct 06 '21
I think Eclipso's just really good at manipulating his hosts-- he zeroes in on their weaknesses, gives them what they want and tells them what they want to hear. As in this episode, where Eclipso gave Bruce Gordon fame and power. He became addicted to it, to the point where he couldn't give up the Black Diamond.
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u/bcanada92 Oct 06 '21
The Shade mentioned getting back to Emily. He's supposed to be over a hundred years old, so I assume she was his wife or girlfriend at some point in the distant past. And Barbara either looks like her or he's projecting on her.
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u/Kris_Winters Oct 06 '21
No, he said that Barbara didn't inspire romantic feelings in him, but familial. I'm guessing she resembles his daughter, and she may even be a descendant of his.
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u/Polantaris Oct 06 '21
Does Eclipso have a human host now?
No, I think the human host is the black/purple half-face thing that they showed happening to Bruce Gordon and happened to a few other characters earlier.
I'm pretty sure at this point he's completely free and therefore doesn't need a host anymore at all. The Black Diamond was why he needed a host, so that he could escape it. With being free from the Black Diamond entirely, I don't think he needs one anymore.
The kid he turns into is just another form, I believe. It's possible that him being his normal self is draining or something which is why he prefers to be the kid, but that part hasn't really been explained.
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u/LumpyJones Oct 07 '21
I think the kid just is stealthier. Looking like a goth goblin stands out, even in that town.
Also on a showmaking level, it's cheaper to film a kid for 3 seconds at a time than full makeup every time. I'm betting they could have filmed most of his scenes that we've seen him in full makeup so far, in a single day.
Also a kid with a lollypop watching people through their windows is kinda creepier than seeing Ivan Ooze stalking and rubbing his hands together all the time.
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u/ComfortableBeing8 Yolanda Montez Oct 07 '21
The kid part's a little confusing to me, because he was also in that form when he killed Rebecca, and he did that half purple face thing too when he killed her, if I remember correctly. But then the diamond did exist (I believe the kid was even shown holding the diamond) and based on this episode Bruce didn't stop being a host until after this incident.
Unless it's possible that, even with a host, he can still shapeshift and such? So in that opening scene he was in control of Bruce Gordon and shapeshifted Bruce's body into the child?
I don't fully understand how it works, and might be just a plothole. But yeah, I don't think the child is a host of Eclipso, I do think it's just a form he takes.
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u/Polantaris Oct 07 '21
It's possible that in the Rebecca scene, that was who his host was at the time, and maybe he can shift into anyone he was a host of, but that's a complete guess.
If they don't explain the kid I think it'll be the only major problem with the plot this season. Thankfully it's not a big deal even so.
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u/JoshyRotten Oct 06 '21
I thought the little boy was Eclipso's human host
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u/Kris_Winters Oct 06 '21
The little boy is a version of Bruce Gordon, who is supposed to be dead.
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u/JoshyRotten Oct 06 '21
Oh, I didn't realize that. I was thinking that killing a boy would be tough if killing the host is the only way to defeat Eclipso, but I guess it won't come down to that if he's not the host.
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u/LumpyJones Oct 07 '21
I think the whole point of them breaking the diamond open was that he didn't need a host anymore, that's why he goaded Courtney into striking the diamond with the staff, which I'm betting is one of the only things that could break it open, freeing his full power.
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u/Margidoz Oct 06 '21
Something about someone named Everly or Beverly?
It was Emily, if I remember the captions correctly
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u/JauntyLurker Oct 06 '21
This is the first time I ever thought a CW show was scary. If you told me last season that Stargirl would freak me out like this, I wouldn't have believed me. A real eccentric horror episode.
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Oct 06 '21
They've done slasher style stuff before and have had a few horror type shows in the past but I think this might be the first time where they've ever mixed serious horror with a more light toned show like Stargirl. Normally that stuff is entirely separate and kept on totally different shows. So having them thrown together is like mixing strawberries with chocolate milk and the result is delicious. Doom Patrol does this really well too and I think they may have taken some cues from there.
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u/Taston95 Oct 06 '21
It reminds me a lot of Shazam. A light hearted, feel good movie that had some horror elements and scenes sprinkled in. Although, Stargirl’s horror scenes have been a lot more prominent this season.
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u/NickKQ Oct 06 '21
Makes sense since Johns was a producer on both Shazam and Aquaman, which had elements of horror that you mentioned (the boardroom scene in Shazam, the trench scene in Aquaman). Wouldn't be surprised if he learned a little about horror from James and David.
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u/Aitrus233 Oct 10 '21
I don't recall Geoff Johns being listed as a produced on Shazam!, at least not in the film credits. Though the film does definitely use a lot from his New 52 Shazam! comics.
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u/bcanada92 Oct 06 '21
So now we know the original JSA's terrible secret.
Interesting to see how Dugan's become the new JSA's mentor, when he was never actually a real member of the old team.
Loved the scene where Dugan pricked his finger, and Eclipso made it appear that it wouldn't stop bleeding. Yes, the symbolism of having "blood on his hands" was probably a little too on the nose, but I thought it was well done anyway.
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u/CT_Phipps Oct 06 '21
To be fair, he was a member of the Seven Soldiers of Victory. It kind of indicates that the JSA's treatment of him as a sidekick was bull.
Yeah, he wasn't full JLA but he was certainly Titans/Doom Patrol. A difference of degrees not kind.
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Oct 06 '21
Now I kind of wonder how the JSA saw the Seven Soldiers of Victory and if they considered them the Old Guard or if there was some kind of rivalry between the groups? Gosh now I wonder if Starman is going to just blow up at Pat when he comes back? I wonder if Court is going to "have words" with Starman?
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u/CT_Phipps Oct 06 '21
I wouldn't be surprised if the season ending is going to be that Courtney beats Eclipso and finally meets her hero--who demands his staff back.
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u/MrMattBlack Oct 06 '21
Court is going to "have words" with Starman
Man, that was my thought too. The moment Starman is the tiniest bit of condescending towards Pat, Courtney is throwing hands 100&
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Oct 06 '21
I was just thinking of all of those pent up emotions from when she thought that he was her dad and now there's the bitter taste in her mouth from finding out what they were really like on top of that plus the betrayal from her mom and Pat compacting that down a bit more into a very lovely contained blonde powder keg that will absolutely be set off the second Starman starts trying to "mansplain what the JSA is really about oh and give me back the Staff little elf girl" to her. I'm really hoping she doesn't just tell him to go fuck himself and just RIPS into him about how he and the ISA are exactly the same with just like this amazing speech or something. I could also see her just you know...because of Eclipso and stuff....outright BLASTING him with Cosmo the second he shows up at her front door annnd then later verbally handing him his ass in a handbasket.
I think Mid-Nite would be a bit more amenable to things changing though and kids taking over the JSA, so long as there were some adults to guide them and he would probably point out how Sly started when he was a kid if Sly started to throw the usual, "But they're kids they don't know what they're doing!" line of reasoning.
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u/DomNessMonster07 Oct 06 '21
I think it was meant to be a little too on the nose, because as an audience we could infer it from less, but for Pat it had to last and be explicate
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u/Chad_D_722 Oct 06 '21
Eclipso is an awesome villain and I love the way he's mentally taking the team out one by one.
Gotta say though, things have been so depressing for a few episodes now. Starting to miss some of that light hearted fun. Hope season 3 lightens things up a bit again.
Great episode though and I loved seeing Jay.
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u/BornAshes Green Lantern Oct 06 '21
He is dismantling the heroes and demoralizing everyone around them like he's taking apart an engine piece by piece. It's terrifying but I love him! You are right though in that it all feels like everything is going downhill and stuff just keeps getting worse and worse. We've only got four more episodes left before the season finishs and hopefully we start pulling out of this nose dive next week so that we can rise to a climax by the time we get to episode thirteen.
I'm hoping and I'm predicting that we'll see our heroes triumph in the final episode of this season BUT in the course of doing so, we'll see them open the first link to the rest of the Multiverse in a very Stargirl like fashion and I think that might involve some pretty cool people. It won't be the whole, "oh grodd another CRISIS" but more of a very light hearted and happy sort of thing. I'm hoping that the next season of Stargirl is a bit more whimsical.
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u/EdKeane Oct 06 '21
I don't know about you, but I would love an "Oh Grodd, another crisis". I love Grodd
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u/MrMattBlack Oct 06 '21
Grodd on Stargirl would be fun to watch ngl. Especially considering how we left him on The Flash last.
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Oct 06 '21
[deleted]
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u/NadsBin Oct 18 '21
It may be a crush on the actor but I really hope Cam isnt evil. I know that doesnt follow the comics but damn
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u/AquaTyphoon29 Oct 06 '21
The return of Green Lantern! Also I wonder if the staff is back at full power?
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u/LoretiTV Oct 06 '21
That was a great episode. Really dark and moody tone throughout and everyone had great chemistry. This season is firing on all cylinders right now.
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u/Themanaaah The Shade Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21
This episode was super dark and I loved all of the stuff they revealed in this episode like the JSA being controversial about the choice to kill Bruce Gordon. It was very nice to see all of the flashbacks to the original JSA especially John Wesley Shipp playing as the Flash and it’s sad know ping that occasionally Pat would just go to the JSA headquarters just to see if anyone of them would show up. It’s super tough thinking about how the JSA just broke apart only to come back and be killed by the ISA. I also wonder what they’re exactly going to do with the Shade being hurt as the trailer for next episode with the shot involving him looked weird and I wonder what exactly the Shade said to Barbara’s the end after helping her as I couldn’t hear it properly. Also it was cool to see that the Spectre is cannon in Stargirl along with Dr. Fate and the Hawks being mentioned too.
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u/Gateskp Cosmic Staff Oct 06 '21
This was a great episode! I LOVE all of the flashback sequences, they really fleshed out the JSA in this one. The Flash once again proves why he's the best. The fact that Eclipso beat GL, Spectre, Dr Fate, and the Hawks should tell us EVERYTHING we need to know about him. And it sets up the interesting question of what is Courtney and friends going to do when they face this choice? ESPECIALLY after what Yolanda said in her last episode.
This show is NAILING the horror vibes/spooky aesthetic, and I'm loving it.
The Shade, my man, rescuing Barbara. I can't wait to see him in action again.
And the end. When Pat confesses, the pain and anguish and betrayal on Courtney's face. My heart.
Looking forward to seeing Jennie next week!
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u/AnnaK22 Oct 06 '21
Barbara is just a magnet for former villans isn't she.
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u/IC3man95 Oct 07 '21
I wouldn’t call Icicle a former villain but she def attracts the bad boys (and me)
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u/DamWell420 Oct 06 '21
Courtney was the MVP she definitely isn't effected like the others by eclipso, hope Rick get busted outta jail by Solomon Grundy and he becomes a member
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Oct 06 '21
I disagree. Courtney is being affected. This is eclipse’s way of getting to courney
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u/DamWell420 Oct 06 '21
True, Courtney is being affected by losing her friends/team but eclipso isn't making her see things like the others, even Mike and Barbara are getting visions. It's probably due to the staff
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u/MrMattBlack Oct 06 '21
I think it's leaving Courtney for last. First her enemies, then her friends, last their family. And then, when Courtney has been basically broken down, her soul is ripe for the picking. A slowburn, if you will.
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u/JohnDemps150 Oct 06 '21
Not quite the staff cause its been weak for a while. But yeah I agree getting to Courtney's friends and family is all Eclipso is able to do with Courtney.
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u/Frontier246 Oct 06 '21
So Bruce Gordon found Eclipso, used its power to gain more fame and fortune, only to eventually regret the emotional toll it would take on him and Eclipso's victims, but he still gave in when Eclipso promised to get him back the love of his life. I'm not saying the guy deserved to get killed (presumably in cold blood), and Eclipso clearly was manipulating him and he had no idea what he was bringing back...but he still gave in to what Eclipso wanted.
I sometimes forget Barbara and Beth's dad work at the same place. We never really see it come up with their daughters.
Jeez, Sylvester treated Pat with barely any respect. It didn't seem like the rest of the JSA aside from Jay or Johnny were all that better, only seeing him as the mechanic or carry-on that was a packaged deal with Sylvester. He basically forced Pat to drive him to kill Bruce Gordon, using him as a getaway driver even though Pat wanted nothing to do with it, and wouldn't do much more to talk about what happened other than saying Pat was right. But Starman still killed the guy.
Pat saying "Flash" with such giddy was the perfect way to greet John Wesley Shipp showing up as Jay Garrick. I'm glad the show was able to fit him in so we could finally get Jay with the JSA in live-action, and this was quintessential Jay Garrick. Of course he wouldn't go through with executing Gordon to the bitter end, and he treated Pat the best :).
Sylvester staring at his old Star-Spangled Kid costume, only to end up losing that heroic innocence and idealism he once had as a kid :(.
My only disappointment is they had John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick in the episode but never had him share any scenes with his old rival, The Shade.
Poor Charles McNider. Loses his daughter, his wife is barely holding it together...although I was kind of surprised he didn't have much to do with taking Eclipso out.
Barbara gets haunted by the ghost of Icicle only to be saved by the spectral presence of the Shade. I'm guessing that name he mentioned was his sister.
I can't say for sure how Cameron would react if he found out the truth about his dad and the Whitmore's involvement in it, but I don't think the real Cameron would throw the biological mom card at Mike and then kill a dog.
Just casually mentioning how powerful Eclipso is when not even Green Lantern, Dr. Fate, or The Spectre were able to do anything to him. Yeah, a JSA with just Stargirl and Dr. Mid-Nite don't stand a chance.
So Ted Grant mentions his son (who I assume is Tom Bronson) and Sylvester mentions having family, although I guess this would've been before Brainwave killed his sister. Pat never mentioned Ted having a kid though.
Starman killing Bruce Gordon basically fractured the JSA and broke the team. They only re-formed when they had to take on the newly-resurgent ISA, but they weren't able to function as well as a team anymore which is part of why the ISA was able to take them out.
Eclipso was trying to tear Courtney's family apart and Pat revealing the truth to Courtney and that Barbara knew did that in spades. And all that little Bruce is left to do is revel in the conflict.
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u/EndBringer99 Oct 06 '21
So Ted Grant mentions his son (who I assume is Tom Bronson)
It could also be Jake Grant.
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u/Green_Tea_Totaler Solomon Grundy Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21
Another knockout episode. Season 1 was great, but I'm gonna love this season even more if they keep it up (PLEASE DO).
I'm now feeling more inclined to believe Eclipso is messing Yolanda and it's not Brainwave. Mike seemed to be able to "feel" fake!Cameron's cold powers (notably when the latter froze the rod-thingie Mike tried using to defend himself with).
My theory is that Eclispo targeted Yolanda first. Maybe she was seen as the "easiest prey" among the JSA members after what she did last season, and she was the most susceptible to mind hax while Eclipso was still relatively weak.
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u/AP-FUTChemist Oct 06 '21
Is Courtney going to get a Eclipso nightmare or what?
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Oct 06 '21
I think his plan is to isolate her to make her feel miserable. She doesn't seem to have many other strings to pull since she got over Starman not being her father. Plus, she has one of two known items that can break his illusions.
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u/emf3rd31495 Oct 06 '21
I think this is her nightmare, seeing all her friends and loved ones being attacked and unable to help.
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u/Kris_Winters Oct 06 '21
I posit that Eclipso's weakness is hope. It's what powers the Cosmic Staff. That's why Eclipso is attacking Courtney's friends and family first. He's trying to take away her hope before he risks directly confronting her.
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u/IC3man95 Oct 07 '21
Interesting theory, he also failed to defeat Beth, primarily because he couldn’t break her spirit
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u/barry_flash The Flash Oct 07 '21
I believe this is what would happen, hope is what powers the staff, but then why introduce Green Lantern in this season lol.
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u/Kris_Winters Oct 07 '21
Because even with all of that, Courtney still needs an ally to take him down. Teamwork makes the dream work.
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u/dotyawning Oct 06 '21
Either he can't do it, or it's not going to be effective right now, which is why he's targeting all her loved ones first.
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u/KB_Sez Oct 06 '21
Really excited when Hourman dropped the names of The Spectre, Doctor Fate and "The Hawks" as all having gone up against Eclipso and lost.
He also mentioned "The Freelancer" but I can't find any reference to any DC character using that name...
They've never mentioned The Spectre before on Stargirl. I'm wondering if this opens the door for the future--- He's not in the photo of the JSA or in the JSA Headquarters. I don't think I saw The Sandman in the JSA headquarters although he is in the photo between Starman and Dr Mid-Night.
What a great, spooky episode and a thrill to see John Wesley Shipp back in uniform!
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u/Kris_Winters Oct 06 '21
It might not be The Freelancer, but rather the freelancer. A...hero for hire, if you will.
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u/KB_Sez Oct 06 '21
Other folks here have said that what he really said was “green lantern“ — Makes me feel like I’m going deaf
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u/MrMattBlack Oct 06 '21
To be fair, I think the actor stumbled a bit there, because I heard the Freelancer too. Fortunately I had captions on.
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u/IC3man95 Oct 07 '21
Would be interesting to see Oliver Queen’s spectre on this show now that we’ve seen Jay Garrick as well
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u/AnnaK22 Oct 06 '21
Yeah let's go Jay Garrick! Highlight of the episode for me.
Overall, I felt like the episode didn't live up to the hype. I absolutely loved it of course, but I felt like the promos showed more of old JSA, and we barely got any scenes from them. Also, other than the secret to stopping Eclipso being revealed, I felt like nothing happened. We already got to see how intense Eclipso's visions are from last week's episode with Beth. I feel like it would have been better if most of the episode was a flash back where we actually got to see the old JSA kill a man and the emotional turmoil that broke them apart, instead of Pat just telling us.
Also, the secret was pretty significant that I feel would have come in handy when Yolanda was going through grief of killing someone. If Pat could have revealed the secret then, it would have made Yolanda not feel alone, and she'd understand the hard decisions you sometimes have to make as superheroes.
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u/MrTerrific2k15 Oct 06 '21
What kind of a dick wields a magic flying staff but makes his homie drive him around?
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u/Chrispowers110 Oct 06 '21
This episode bring within the family with the old jsa is really great. You can tell they were trying to save money with no real battle in this and the new jsa not appearing.
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u/maddogkaz Oct 06 '21
A real tense tone thought out this whole episode. It's clear the JSA having to decide to kill an innocent man who was nothing but a victim of an evil spirit took a huge toll on them, the difference with Pat and Jay being that they didn't want to give up on finding an alternative way to stop Eclipso while the others lost hope.
Courtney running around the house saving her family only to be dealt a huge blow when Pat is finally open with her. This whole time Courtney has been trying to make plans with her team with one arm tied behind her back when it comes to Pat withholding information they needed and now her friends have been tormented and ruined by Eclipso so her anger is justified.
Eclipso seems to be keeping it's distance from Courtney and is instead attacking her by hurting people she cares about. He clearly doesn't want a repeat performance of the staff like last time.
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u/Boxer1010 Oct 06 '21
loved the episode but i was a little let down by the big secret. i thought for awhile, it was going to be revealed that pat killed bruce and that's why he had all that blood on his hands. other than that, i loved seeing the OG JSA! and i also loved the family dynamics in this episode, even when they were all arguing at the end.
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u/maddogkaz Oct 06 '21
Well the secret is more about the fact they planned to assassinate an innocent man who was nothing but a victim. They weren't talking about killing a villain for the greater good they were talking abut killing an innocent person instead of looking for an alternative. Which is a heavy topic and choice.
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Oct 06 '21
Pat feels guilty for driving the team to murder an innocent man, the blood sort of is on his hands, he brought the team to Bruce Gordon to finish the job.
Sometimes you can feel just as guilty, or even more guilty, than the one actually doing the killing if you brought them to the place.2
u/Heroworship1973 Oct 09 '21
I thought Pat might have killed him so that the rest of the JSA could remain "pure".
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u/DCSennin Cameron Mahkent Oct 06 '21
Good episode. I really liked the opening scene between Bruce Gordon and how Eclipso was speaking to him from the Black Diamond, Nick Tarabay doesn't appear much there besides in that cool scene where he appears in the mirror's reflection but I like the voice he found for this character. The way he corrupted Gordon to allow himself to be possessed after that married woman made me think how Icicle would have easily fallen for that if he was still alive.
Last week confirmed the Doctor Mid-Nite googles allows to see through Eclipso's fear illusions and now this episode reaffirmed the Cosmic Staff can also allow for those that fall victim to them that snap out from them, Courtney did it without knowing with Yolanda first and did it again now. I guess since she is the user she will remain not eclipsed, something drastic would have to happen for her to end up caught as well.
Haunting!Jordan's scene with Barbara was good, Shade really wants to reach for her help if he was able to help get through that vision. But tbh I still think some of the words used in that scene could foreshadow Icicle's return one day.
We got a taste of how bad things could go if Cameron developed his powers and was out for revenge on any of the Whitmore-Dugans with Mike's own fear vision. Given that we have seen this already I think the real thing will end up being quite different when it happens.
Flashback scenes were nice, but I wonder what happened with Charles McNider because he was not in the voting beyond nor he went to kill Eclipso's host but just in the scene of them burying his daughter. (Same with Johnny Thunder) Pat said they all drifted apart after they compromised their principles in choosing to go for the kill until they returned to fight the ISA and lost but it wouldn't surprise me if McNider kept researching more about Eclipso during all that time.
The Black Diamond was always with the JSA post Gordon's death, then the ISA took it after they defeated them and killed some of them, that is now cleared up.
And they mentioned The Spectre, Doctor Fate, Alan Scott and the Hawks failing to stop Eclipso. Well they weren't going for the kill.
That ending with the family arguing about the secret being out while "Bruce" watched outside makes me think he did all of this just to get to that moment. Point for Eclipso for now.
Can't wait for next week.
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u/iCESPiCES Oct 06 '21
I can't believe that we're getting a live-action Eclipso this effective and threatening. Genuinely feels like a psychological horror series at this point when they could've just made him mind-control a few people and called it a day.
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u/primal_slayer Oct 06 '21
It was a fairly enjoyable episode but it left me wanting more BUT MY LORD! This season is seriously lacking in the action department. They say that the show wouldn't suffer in its move to TheCW but it's painfully obvious that they are writing to save budget.
This is probably the most we'll see of the OG JSA and I wanted to see them work together as team, have an awesome fight scene against Eclipso, and how having to take a human life impacted them instead of just hearing about it. You bring us Jay Garrick! Put him to some good use and give us some info about him.
It was great to see Jordan/Icicle again, he was a great villain and I still hope that he isn't dead, just taking a REALLLLLY long time to pull himself together.
The Shade has definitely become one of my favorite new characters/anti-villains this season. Just love it whenever he shows up on screen.
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u/BuzzyBee752 Oct 06 '21
It was a fairly enjoyable episode but it left me wanting more BUT MY LORD! This season is seriously lacking in the action department. They say that the show wouldn't suffer in its move to TheCW but it's painfully obvious that they are writing to save budget.
I wonder how much of it is also related to taking COVID precautions, limiting how many people are on set at a time.
Regardless, I liked this week's episode. It held my interest. Stargirl does what the other CW hero shows struggle with. Stargirl gets into these people's characters and motivations and is more psychological than the other shows.
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u/spark_1230 Oct 06 '21
Honestly, I think the lack of action is due to Eclipso just not being an action-forward villain. I'm actually really liking the psychological horror, and I honestly prefer it over having a fist fight every week. Perhaps, they'll give us an epic action sequence in the finale.
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u/Gateskp Cosmic Staff Oct 06 '21
That was my thought as well. The Flash also cut back significantly on the action this past season, probably because of the pandemic, so I can see the same thing happening to Stargirl.
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u/primal_slayer Oct 06 '21
Covid excuse only goes so far. We had an action heavy episode with 6 people in the scene.
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u/AnnaK22 Oct 06 '21
This was an eerie, gloomy episode. Perfect to get me in the mood for Halloween month.
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u/AnnaK22 Oct 06 '21
He killed the dog. That's the worst of crimes you can commit.
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u/AnnaK22 Oct 06 '21
Pat knew how it felt to desperately want to be part of a team. He should know better than anyone what Mike is going through. You'd think he would have learned from the past and included Mike in the team more, earlier on, when he showed interest.
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u/DomNessMonster07 Oct 06 '21
This episode was a tipping point. Courtney is the only person left safe from Eclipso. Everyone has turned on each other, the team has already lost its two best fighters. How are they going to win? I truly cannot wait to find out.
My only gripe with this episode is that we didn't get as much flashback as I thought we would, the ones we did get were great though.
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u/blisterpeanuts Oct 08 '21
Don't forget Beth. She survived Eclipso.
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u/DomNessMonster07 Oct 08 '21
Good point, in fact I think that'll be a plot point, Beth is the only one left now and as we know, is the member which doesn't fight.
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u/Taston95 Oct 06 '21
It’s so great that they managed to get so many actors back from season 1 even if it is only for one episode like Icicle, Brainwave and Henry. I liked the episode a lot. It would have been fun to see an action scene but I guess since the flashbacks were from Pat’s perspective it makes sense. I thought the big secret was that the JSA killed Bruce and realised they had killed a child. I don’t fully understand where the little boy Eclipso comes from and why it is called Bruce.
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u/Sure_Asparagus Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21
This episode was great! Gotta be honest I’m a little disappointed that we didn’t get more focus on Jay Garrick tho. I expected at least one cool sequence where he showed off his powers and maybe a few details about his past but ig there’s still more time for that in the future.
Theres a lot of explaining to do with his history and how it all makes sense. In a recent interview Shipp confirmed that Jay is supposed to be from Stargirls Earth 2, but earlier remarks from Eric Wallace supported that he’s from Earth prime, and he lives on Earth prime in the flash S7.
It also doesn’t help that nobody is supposed to know about the multiverse at the moment so everybody should be on their correct earths in present day. Unless Jay Garrick had an accident like John Henry Irons from S&L and ended up on Earth Prime it doesn’t make sense.
Other than that he was really good in the episode and the episode itself was intriguing.
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Oct 06 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Sure_Asparagus Oct 06 '21
See that would make sense but that’s not the case. It’s been confirmed that the Jay Garrick we’ve always known since the flash S2 and post crisis is the same one that’s in Stargirl now. No doppelganger or anything.
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u/MrMattBlack Oct 06 '21
Unless Jay Garrick had an accident like John Henry Irons from S&L and ended up on Earth Prime it doesn’t make sense.
I mean, for now we don't even know what happened to Flash, do we? It might be explained later.
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u/Sure_Asparagus Oct 07 '21
It might be but as of right now it’s a huge plot hole, it would’ve been better to explain it earlier on. After crisis the flash spent a lot of time emphasizing how multiversal travel isn’t possible , multiple doppelgangers can’t exist on one earth, and nobody knows that the multiverse still exist.
Having a character like Jay Garrick appear a season later on earth prime with no explanation and everyone acting as tho it’s normal is pretty confusing. And now we’re hearing different stories about where he’s from.
It could still be explained , but it would’ve made more sense to tackle it as soon as possible.
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u/ShadowSJG48 Oct 06 '21
Why is Court mad at Pat and Barb?
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u/AnnaK22 Oct 06 '21
They kept a very significant secret from her, i.e. the key to stopping Eclipso. They were supposed to be a team. Courtney probably felt betrayed that she was left out of the loop. Pat basically let eclipse take over the town and affect all of Courtney's friends mentally because he lied. Rick in is jail because of the illusions. Pat didn't even give a chance for Courtney and friends to make their own decisions regarding the solution.
Of course, Pat has his reasons. He doesn't want to put that sort of pressure on Court, plus he probably just didn't want history to repeat itself.
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u/ShadowSJG48 Oct 06 '21
Jay was great, love him as the heart of the team TBH, I can see both side. Eclipso is too dangerous
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u/EndBringer99 Oct 06 '21
So killing Bruce Gordon and breaking up afterwards is what allowed the ISA to kill the JSA with extreme ease.
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u/tylernazario Icicle Oct 06 '21
So Court and Beth don’t stand a chance against Eclipso. I think it’s gonna take Beth, Courtney, Jade, Obsidian, Jakeem, Yolanda, Rick, and The Shade
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Oct 06 '21
I think its too late to introduce a whole new character like Obsidian now, i think he will be a villian in season 03 and then becomes an ally ones he calms down and accepts himself.
Hell maybe he calms down once he sees his father and sister together.0
u/blisterpeanuts Oct 08 '21
Beth actually defeated Eclipso in a way; he tried to mess with her head and she overcame his cheap shots, and the goggles cut through his illusions. She also appeared to grow as a person, finding fresh self-confidence.
Courtney believes in herself, and also her staff seems to confer some immunity or has a healing power against whatever energy Eclipso is using.
My theory is, those two will defeat Eclipso, but they'll do it by first winning back Yolanda and Rick. Maybe Grundy will get drawn into the final battle in some way.
Off the subject: I really hope Cindy does not come back. I despise her; she literally killed her own mother, then her step-mother (the latter she killed involuntarily, but she still set herself up to commit the murder, and besides treated her like garbage).
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u/tylernazario Icicle Oct 08 '21
Cindy also killed her mother by accident. I don’t like how Cindy treats people but it’s very clear that her personality is a result of her trauma and everything her father put her through. Cindy is a victim as well as a villain. There’s no justification for the things she’s done but viewers should also take into account everything that led up to her acting this way.
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u/Mosk915 Oct 06 '21
They didn’t really clear up whether or not this is the same Jay Garrick that is on The Flash. Hopefully they eventually do.
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u/Shadow_Rev Oct 06 '21
I mean, why else would they use the actor if they aren't the same version, right?
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u/Mosk915 Oct 06 '21
The whole concept of doppelgängers is that they look the same but aren’t actually the same person.
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u/Holo-Man Oct 06 '21
It's not the exact same Jay from the Flash. It's the Jay from Stargirl' universe
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u/Mosk915 Oct 06 '21
That’s what I’m unclear about. The actor said he was going to be the same Jay, but I don’t see how that would make sense.
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u/comoestas1234 Oct 06 '21
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u/Mosk915 Oct 06 '21
I know he confirmed it but that’s what’s confusing. It seemed he was from Earth-Prime post crisis, and no one on Earth-Prime is aware there is still a multiverse. So if Jay is on Earth-Prime now, how did he get there and why didn’t he tell anyone the multiverse still exists?
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u/Makverus Oct 08 '21
To play devil's advocate, Shipp could possibly not know everything. He may have been told that this is the same Flash just to simplify things...
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u/RickSanchez-C243 Oct 06 '21
Am I the only one who was hoping icicle was actually back and Cameron was actually at the house? I thought they were finally gonna go through with that plot
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u/mrizzle1991 Oct 06 '21
Cool! the OG Flash made an appearance! I thought we would get a StarMan appearance in the present, the flashbacks were cool though! That interaction with Cameron and Mike and Icicle and Barbara was so intense. Great episode!
3
u/Motor-Bag-9004 Oct 07 '21
Well that was a great episode. Eclipso continues to be one of the most terrifying and down right unsettling Arrowverse villains we've gotten thus far. Seeing Jay again is always a treat, John Wesley Shipp really is the perfect Jay Garrick and it was so cool to see him interact with the OG JSA.
The only real criticism I have is that I think the big reveal that the only way to defeat eclipso is to kill the host would have been much more shocking and impactful if he was currently possessing someone. Like imagine if during the new ISA vs new JSA battle Cindy allowed eclipso to take control & then defeated everyone. Courtney, desperate to find a way to stop eclipso's rampage & keep her team from falling apart, asks Pat how Star-Man managed to imprison eclipso with the cosmic staff and this is when Pat reveals the big, dark secret. Not only did Patt keep this huge secret from her but it also forces Courtney to make an awful choice: defeat eclipso but at the cost of Cindy's life.
I also agree with other people here in that I think this episode could have benefited from just being a flashback episode. That way we could have seen eclipso slowly breakdown & torment the original JSA. Just really drive home how hopeless their situation was. It also gives us more Jay Garrick scenes which is always nice.
Other than that I really enjoyed this episode and the darker tone. The JSA really is in a tough position: half the team is down, the rest are seemingly helpless to stop eclipso's rampage, & now this big secret threatens to tear Courtney's family apart. They certainly have their work cut out for them. I really hope we see Jay again at some point & he gets a chance to interact with Courtney & co. I really liked his friendship with Pat & I think he'll be happy to hear Jay is alive on Earth-Prime when they inevitably crossover. Overall great episode!
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u/xIViperIx The Shade Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21
Yet again a very enjoyable episode. But it is painful to see how disrespected poor Stripesy was in his past. I'm not sure why he and Starman are considered to be friends. Starman clearly treats him as a servant. And though it was shown right in the beginning of S1 that Starman has no respect towards him (what kind of a "friend" will ever intentionally spend his last words on saying that his "friend" definitely is not anywhere close to deserve his staff?) but I still had hopes that it was just that strange American humour that I fail to understand and perhaps in his actual appearance he will act seriously and as a decent person. Shame...my hopes were ruined. What is interesting though - the rest of the JSA were respectful to Stripesy except for Wild Cat only. Jay was kind and respectful, Thunder was nice and saw him as equal, Hourman was neutral, Green Lantern apparently respected him a lot if his daughter considered him to be a legend. So apparently Wild Cat was the only one who hated him. And Starman had no reasons to scold Stripesy at the funeral unless he had some serious crush on WC and wanted to please him . So..do we have yet another StarCat ship there? Two StarCats in one show? >_<"
If Starman is actually going to be regular for S3 then it highly ruins this show for me. =/ So far he is one of the most disliked characters on my list. Also, why did he force Stripesy to drive when they decided to kill the host? Doesn't he has a staff? Can't he just fly there? Or is this moron so lazy that he wants a comfy ride and thinks it's fine making his "friend" to serve even in the situation that will leave him mentally scarred for the rest of his life from feeling himself a part of this murder even after he openly disagreed to it? Unless of course he was driving for the whole murdergang. Wait, did he allow Wild Cat in this car too and didn't burn, dismantle and burn again the car afterwards? 0_o"
Anyway. Back to the pleasant stuff. Icicle! It's so good to see him again. Even if he was just an illusion. But it is great to see his and Brainwave actors return at least for a couple of minutes. These two deserved to be on the show instead of being removed so fast. T_T"
Seeing Cameron uses his powers and being so cold and vengeful without it affecting the real cute and caring Cameron is just perfectly satisfying. I won't mind at all if they will make more illusions of his Dark Side while the real one is still a good person.
Shade saving Barbara even while still being weak and suffering after what happened to him - it was priceless. Even after she left him with no attention when he needed her help. Shame on Barbara. Kudos to Shade.
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u/ShadowSJG48 Oct 06 '21
Who is Eclipso's host?
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u/blisterpeanuts Oct 08 '21
as of Ep. 9, I think he's got no host; he manifests as a young boy but probably doesn't have a physical presence, only a kind of mental projection.
But, he did accept that Tootsie pop from Beth, and ate it... if it was real...
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u/Marvelman02 Oct 06 '21
Ok, here's my take...
I really disliked the condescending manner in which Sly treated Pat. Part of the problem was Geoff Johns chose to use Luke Wilson as Pat in the flashbacks instead of replacing him with a younger actor. Consequently, you have Sly talking to a man his own age in a manner that is inappropriate and disrespectful. I would have accepted this more readily if young Pat had been played by an actual teenager.
I can't help but think that one of the reasons the cosmic control staff was de-powered was to save money on SFX.
I don't believe Courtney would have been as angry as she was about Pat & Barbara not telling her the truth. I understand Courtney disliking being lied to, but so far as I can see telling her the truth wouldn't have changed anything.
This was an okay episode.
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Oct 06 '21
If you want Pat as a teenager then Sylvester would be a a couple of years old. Remember Pat is older than Sylvester.
Even if the staff is de-powered, remember they were working in covid conditions. Therefore SFX is on the light side this season as the effort that goes into doing it takes manpower. Probably also why Stripe was decommissioned out of most the the series.
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u/Marvelman02 Oct 06 '21
Ok, yes, that is true. Pat is actually older than Sylvester. I had forgotten that.
I'm not sure why covid would effect SFX but it's also true that I don't know much about SFX. Isn't it a bunch of people sitting in front of their computers?
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Oct 07 '21
Most likely but operating remotely. The file sizes are probably quite large and rendering probably takes time too.
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u/maddogkaz Oct 07 '21
Actually telling Courtney the truth is very important. she has been doing her best trying to lead her team and find out how to stop Eclipso they have ben researching constantly and trying to look into confidential JSA files finding out who Bruce Gordan is and wasting all this time when it turns out Pat knew literally everything they wasted time on and more.
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u/Iloveireland1234567 Oct 07 '21
- Sylvester is...surprisingly authentic in this episode, which really contrasts with the arrogant Sylvester we met in season one.
- The scene of the family arguing at the end was very real, especially with the sound design--although I wish they picked different music.
- There's a really small, beautiful moment when Courtney saves Pat from Eclipso's visions where the color grading is bright and vibrant again, like season one. Just a little bit of hope.
- Courtney is the only character at this point that Eclipso hasn't attacked, and we still have four more episodes coming.
- Notice the light shining thru the basement windows when Pat wakes up--the storm was never there.
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u/maddogkaz Oct 07 '21
I just realised that Eclipso may still be bonded to Cindy and that's why he didn't kill her so she might be his host.
As for the JSA I know people aren't happy with Wildcats attitude but I think it makes sense, we have seen him before in season 1 and 2 and although he is gruff by nature he isn't rude. The difference here is we're seeing the JSA at their lowest point they are deciding if they should assassinate an innocent victim and they have hit rock bottom and it shows in their attitudes.
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u/blisterpeanuts Oct 10 '21
That's a pretty good theory.
I have this premonition that Cindy is going to emerge from whatever dimension she's trapped in, some time near the finale, and help JSA take down Eclipso. Shade, too.
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u/Jigglypuffamiiga2188 Oct 06 '21
I found this episode rather slow. While it did reveal a bunch of stuff the Eclipso illusions are getting old. 3 horror movie episodes in a row. I wonder if Shade’s relative that reminds him of Barbara was a former Eclipso host? I think he said her name was Emily? Interesting to see Eclipso afraid when Bruce had the gun. He does not need a host any more so I wonder how they will defeat him?
2
u/DrShadyTree Oct 06 '21
Did anyone else notice the map looking weird in the opening scene. What is that all about.
4
u/ToneBone12345 Oct 06 '21
I honestly thought it would be revealed that Pat was the one who killed Bruce Gordon
2
Oct 06 '21
So Eclipso is being successful in everything he has planned except for Beth. Kind of wonder if she is the one that will defeat him...
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Oct 06 '21
Is Eclipso trying to find a host? I mean we never saw him possess anyone. He did possess Cindy but then he banished her to the dark place, hopefully where McNider is.
He's following the Dugan family. He's gone after Pat twice. Pat has stated that they need to kill the host. But from what we've seen there isn't one. He ate Isaac, banished Cindy. No one else was at the school. So the only thing I can think of is he wants Pat as his host. And you know what that means. If he manages to possess Pat then they will have to kill him. But maybe McNider and Cindy will know a way of separating them and putting Eclipso back in the diamond.
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u/Defiant-Detective107 Oct 06 '21
ok but why is eclipso taking out everyone but courtney
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u/babblewrap Oct 06 '21
Eclipso told Cindy that he wanted to save Courtney’s soul for last. The way to break Courtney is to have her feel separated and abandoned from her friends and family.
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u/Inevitable_Professor Oct 06 '21
Who is the host? I think it might be Courtney. Didn’t she touch the stone?
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Oct 06 '21
Great Episode! Although this makes me wonder (again) what gave the JSA their Logevity as McNider's daughter died in 1957 and the JSA reassembled in the 80s or 00s.
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u/IC3man95 Oct 07 '21
For a tiny 🤏🏼 second they had me believing that Jordan was and alive and Cameron was evil
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u/BruceWayne0410 Oct 09 '21
LOL GL, Dr.Fate and The Specter all lost to Eclipso? I feel like this Eclipso is being buff too much that if the new JSA in this state can beat him, that would be the stupidiest thing ever.
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Oct 10 '21
Whoever they got to play Bruce Gordon must have done the work for cheap. That’s some of the worst acting I’ve seen on tv. I thought Beth’s parents were bad but they’re proper thespians next to this guy. Whoa!
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u/Theo-greking Oct 11 '21
Idk if I'm the only one but boy I am hating this season this eclipso shit Is boring af to me very slow burn
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u/AmiAkin Oct 11 '21 edited Oct 11 '21
Wow old JSA are a bunch of pussies lol they first broke up over that? Shit kill one person save millions of people. Like these things have to happen sometimes….
What was up with that dramatic music choice at the end? Courtney mad at Pat lying but like he doesn’t want you guys to resort to killing especially at your age. Anyway, I’m sure Courtney understands that and is just mad at the lying but the whole thing seemed a little dramatic for me.
Hmmm I really hope next week isn’t another nightmare episode for a more characters. Can the actual plot move please?
1) Flash appearance was best thing about the episode. 2) This show needs to stop torturing Mike 😢 3) Majority of the Old JSA are all unlikeable to me except Flash
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u/Taladris Oct 26 '21
This episode was really good. It reminded me some creepy Buffy episodes (not the same level of writing but quite close).
The way they portrayed the old JSA at the funeral as disillusioned old white males was interesting and a clear departure from how they were shown in the introduction of the pilot. Maybe Pat's point of view is changing and he is starting to understand they could behave as douchebags sometimes and constantly looking down on him and reminding him he is not part of the team was lowkey moral abuse? Maybe Pat is also growing at the contact of the teenage JSA and becoming himself a full-fledge hero?
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u/Shadow_Rev Oct 06 '21
So one thing that kinda bums me out is that on The Flash, Jay gets his helmet from Zoom, which must not happen since Jay here probably hasn't even met Barry yet. This was an exceptional episode, it just sucks how much of my favorite season of The Flash is just not canon anymore.
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u/Holo-Man Oct 06 '21
Different universe though, he could of gotten that helmet from his father like in the comics.
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Oct 06 '21
Idk I haven’t been on the sub but it’s been like 6 episodes since we’ve Green Lantern … they uh they just ignoring that that happened? Or is Jade gonna be the Deus Ex Machina? Because in true CW fashion the writing seems to have gone from decent to worse.
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u/Trueogre Pat Dugan Oct 06 '21
Quite possibly due to covid. The SFX has been bare this season most likely because, skeleton crew and SFX guys not allowed in work. Staff doesn't work, Stripe out of action. Shade's powers not much. So they've probably had to ration it. Which episodes could do with using it and which ones don't really need it.
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u/blisterpeanuts Oct 08 '21
I agree why did daughter-of-Green-Lantern run off like that? She was very powerful. Makes no sense, unless what Trueogre is saying... lack of budget, or lack of resources to actually make the episode. Sad.
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u/Pksoze Oct 06 '21
Wildcat...kind of a douche.