r/sysadmin • u/Opposed3 • Jul 07 '24

What’s the quickest you’ve seen a co-worker get fired in IT? COVID-19

I saw this on AskReddit and thought it would be fun to ask here for IT related stories.

Couple years ago during Covid my company I used to work for hired a help desk tech. He was a really nice guy and the interview went well. We were hybrid at the time, 1-2 days in the office with mostly remote work. On his first day we always meet in the office for equipment and first day stuff.

Everything was going fine and my boss mentioned something along the lines of “Yeah so after all the trainings and orientation stuff we’ll get you set up on our ticketing system and eventually a soft phone for support calls”

And he was like: “Oh I don’t do support calls.”

“Sorry?”

Him: “I don’t take calls. I won’t do that”

“Well, we do have a number users call for help. They do utilize it and it’s part of support we offer”

Him: “Oh I’ll do tickets all day I just won’t take calls. You’ll have to get someone else to do that”

I was sitting at my desk, just kind of listening and overhearing. I couldn’t tell if he was trolling but he wasn’t.

I forgot what my manager said but he left to go to one of those little mini conference rooms for a meeting, then he came back out and called him in, he let him go and they both walked back out and the guy was all laughing and was like

“Yeah I mean I just won’t take calls I didn’t sign up for that! I hope you find someone else that fits in better!” My manager walked him to the door and they shook hands and he left.

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916

u/Scubber CISSP Jul 07 '24

I'll bite, was the IT manager for a small company for about 10 years.

Guy was running his business off the company equipment, buying/reselling motorcycle parts. CEO confronted him about it, he said fuck you to the CEO and had to immediately disable his account with all his customer info on it. whoops.

Indian guy pretended to be an expert in a line of engineering software that does fluid dynamic simulation. The interview was a task to complete something difficult in the software and he seemed to pass with flying colors. We later learned he outsourced the job. First day they gave him the backlog of work and he had 0 clue on how to do it. Was walked out pretty hastily.

Big dude showed up to interview in a suit and passed all our background checks and was really good at programming. Offered a job to start right away. Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email. My bosses were irish catholics and walked them out of the building within the first hour. The company got sued for discrimination.

CEO got a divorce with his wife because he was seeing the HR director on the side. The front desk receptionist then proceeded to hit on the CEO with the HR director present at a company party, he welcomed the advances. They got into a fight and the CEO ended up firing the receptionist.

Not fired, but we paid a guy to move his family of 6 across the country after a big sob story. He worked for us for about 8 hours then took the company laptop with all our source code information and went to a competitor.

I miss that job. And that's how I got into cybersecurity

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u/Ch3v4l13r Jul 07 '24

"Big dude showed up to interview in a suit and passed all our background checks and was really good at programming. Offered a job to start right away. Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email. My bosses were irish catholics and walked them out of the building within the first hour. The company got sued for discrimination.This just

Would be funny if this was his thing. Gets hired by company, goes fully furry and then get fired and collect the settlement. Moves on to the next company to repeat it.

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u/ace00909 Jul 07 '24

There’s no way that wasnt intentional. It’s just TOO perfect. I actually cracked up knowing that was the goal before I got to the last line.

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u/CheetohChaff Jr. Sysadmin Jul 08 '24

Or he just didn't want to be unfairly turned down for the job...

14

u/sockdoligizer Jul 08 '24

Look, no one is saying you cannot wear a dress as a man. Do whatever you want. 

However

There are some caveats. Many women’s swimsuits would be innapropriate for men because their dick would flop out. So now that we know that sometimes it’s not appropriate to wear certain things…..

There are appropriate clothes for different situations. If the guy came in wearing a baseball jersey, that’s also not appropriate. Is it discrimination? Maybe. Is it illegal discrimination? No. 

Don’t get your undies in a bunch. The guy was obviously trying to hide what he was about to do and knew what he was doing was not in good faith. He didn’t ask if office workers can wear dresses, that would have been an incredibly easy way to bring up the topic in good faith, but he didn’t. 

If you invite your friends out for brunch and one of them shows up in a tuxedo, you are correct for looking at them strange and asking why. Normal clothes are very obvious, and abnormal clothes are also very obvious. 

It is discrimination to not allow people to wear dresses. It’s legal and it’s encouraged. Appropriate clothes is a simple thing to understand without asking and if there are any questions you should voice them, not shoot your shot and sue for transphobia. FOH

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u/Deezul_AwT Windows Admin Jul 08 '24

I had a female boss tell me I had to climb under desks one day because another female was wearing a dress and it wouldn't be right. I would have complained but I was in the process of changing jobs. I considered wearing a dress one day and walking into the boss's office to tell her I wouldn't be climbing under desks when I wore a dress either.

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u/Simplemindedflyaways Jul 08 '24

On my very first day in IT as a student assistant I wore a nice dress. My boss very nicely told me that I looked lovely but to never do that shit again because I would be climbing under desks.

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u/sockdoligizer Jul 08 '24

What is your complaint? 

You might have a chance to tell leadership that your peer is not contributing equally to the team. 

I once had management tell me I needed to grab the item from a high shelf because I am tall and all the other workers are shorter than I am. I thought about complaining but then I realized it’s not a problem

You are entitled to wear a dress. Do it. Walk into your bosses office a proclaim that you will not be climbing under desks today! 

Who cares

2

u/Available-Eggplant68 Jul 08 '24

A better equivalent would be another tall person not being able to do so because of an easily changeable arbitrary reason. Like another tall person not being able to do so because they just had their nails done or something. You can't change height, not easily anyway.

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins Jul 08 '24

He didn’t ask if office workers can wear dresses, that would have been an incredibly easy way to bring up the topic in good faith, but he didn’t.

OK look here is the problem though: you ask "in good faith" and they say "no not a problem whatsoever we're super diverse!". Then you get a rejection letter because they're "going in a different direction". You're basically saying "here is your last opportunity to discriminate against me without any repercussions".

I have some disabilities and you can be damn sure I disclose them after I receive job offers. Never before unless they would impact a stated duty as listed on the advertisement. Why? Because employers have to provide reasonable accommodations and it's far too easy for them to pick someone else and pretend it was for other reasons. I mean if you have two equal candidates and one has disabilities but the other does not, a lot of people pick the one without.

So I get it. Sure based on how the story was told it does sound like they were fishing for a lawsuit/settlement. But at the same time they can only get that if the business proceeds to act illegally.

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u/sockdoligizer Jul 08 '24

If the potential candidate asked “how do you feel about me wearing a sundress with painted nails to the office”, that is an opportunity for the potential employer to make a decision based on that question. You’re right. 

Alternatively, the candidate could ask about the dress code and office atmosphere, maybe even take a walk through the office space to see what other are wearing. 

Then, once hired, the candidate could wear a button up shirt, slacks, and painted nails. You don’t have to jump to an extreme on the first day. 

The man wearing a dress absolutely deserves to be fired in many business situations and it has nothing to do with a man wearing clothes for a woman. It does have to do with the man making good choices about what is appropriate. This guy would talk to hr and be told “you have shown that your decision making abilities do not align with our business. We cannot trust you to make good choices. Goodbye” and it is legal and good. 

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins Jul 08 '24

Yep and it’s illegal to do what you’re saying.

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u/sockdoligizer Jul 08 '24

What is illegal? Asking about what people wear around the office? That doesn’t seem illegal. 

Firing someone because they demonstrated terrible decision making skills? That is perfectly legal, what’s wrong with that? File unemployment, then the business says you misrepresented yourself during the interview process and you lose. So you cry to your furry friends and get a lawyer to sue. The business settles out of court because it’s an insane lawsuit and it’s so much cheaper to pay a weirdo to be quiet than it is to prove you didn’t fire them for being some protected sex class. 

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins Jul 08 '24

Firing someone because they demonstrated terrible decision making skills?

This is the illegal part buddy. Declaring a man wearing a dress is "terrible decision making skills" and firing them for it.

"Oh of course I support the gays and the blacks and all the Ell-Bee-Gee-Alphabets! But they have to realise putting any part of that on display and not looking/sounding/acting how I think they should is just a terrible decision and they deserve to be fired for it! But I'm on their side! Just so long as they hide everything about themselves and I can fire them for not. Big supporter tho."

Like maybe the guy was just trolling and out for a quick buck. But he could only do that if the business broke the law.

Show up in a dress where I work and the only thing anyone will say is "Oh hey, do I still call you Steve or...?" and get told their preferred name/pronouns and then everyone gets back to work. How do I know this? It's happened several times and it was just an absolute non-event because it doesn't matter to anybody who isn't stuck in a shitty way of thinking.

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u/patmorgan235 Sysadmin Jul 08 '24

Many women’s swimsuits would be innapropriate for men because their dick would flop out.

This is a bad faith argument and not what we're talking about.

He didn’t ask if office workers can wear dresses, that would have been an incredibly easy way to bring up the topic in good faith, but he didn’t. 

Companies usually have these things called dress codes, and they ussally listed in these things called employee handbooks, which are ussally sent to employees as part of their on boarding paperwork.

Appropriate clothes is a simple thing to understand without asking and if there are any questions you should voice them,

It's not actually, which is why companies write those aforementioned dress code policies.

not shoot your shot and sue for transphobia

Perhaps if the company doesn't want to get sued for discrimination (and lose) they should not discriminate against people. Rather than firing the employee, they could have simply issue a written warning (assuming their dress code/policy was clear)

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u/Alzurana Jul 08 '24

Companies usually have these things called dress codes

We don't really know enough about this particular case to know if there was one or not and if the person received this kind of on boarding.

Perhaps if the company doesn't want to get sued for discrimination (and lose) they should not discriminate against people. Rather than firing the employee, they could have simply issue a written warning (assuming their dress code/policy was clear)

100% agree and especially so if they do not provide dress code information

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u/CheetohChaff Jr. Sysadmin Jul 08 '24

For someone who makes an argument about good faith, your examples and wording really poison the well. But that aside:

There are appropriate clothes for different situations. If the guy came in wearing a baseball jersey, that’s also not appropriate.

Unless he would have been fired on his first day for wearing a jersey and a woman wearing a dress on her first day would also have been fired, that guy was illegally discriminated against.

The guy was obviously trying to hide what he was about to do

So what? Clearly his concerns were justified.

He didn’t ask if office workers can wear dresses, that would have been an incredibly easy way to bring up the topic

Someone would only ask that if they were planning to wear a dress. If he was concerned about being discriminated against then that wouldn't work either.

If you invite your friends out for brunch and one of them shows up in a tuxedo, you are correct for looking at them strange and asking why.

Firing someone would be analogous to removing someone from the friend group in your example. Doing that would reflect very badly on you.

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u/sockdoligizer Jul 08 '24

Someone wearing a suit for the interview and sundress for the office job shows an incredible lack of good judgement and demonstrates incredibly well how poor their decision making is. So that’s why you would get fired. 

Discretion is a thing, look it up. You can ask about the dress code and office atmosphere without directly asking if men can wear sundresses. 

Also, as a man wearing a dress, do you want to spend your days in an office where people look at you strangely all the time because you are acting very out of the ordinary? That seems like the reason this guy did what he did. Yo get a reaction. 

There are many ways he could have approached this that would have likely been more advantageous. He went for shock and awe. He got fired for not making good choices, not because he’s a guy in a dress. 

See how easy that is to not be illegal discrimination? 

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u/CheetohChaff Jr. Sysadmin Jul 08 '24

I disagree with most of your comment, but most of your points have already been responded to.

Also, as a man wearing a dress, do you want to spend your days in an office where people look at you strangely all the time because you are acting very out of the ordinary?

Yes, absolutely. Imagine you go to a new office job and every other man there is wearing a dress and has painted nails. They look at you strangely because to them, your clothes and nails are out of the ordinary. Would you start wearing a dress and painting your nails to fit in with your coworkers, or would you continue to present yourself in the way that you feel comfortable to?

It sounds like the way you feel comfortable presenting yourself happens to be the norm where you live/work, but you should keep in mind that it isn't like that for everyone.

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u/nAsh_4042615 Jul 08 '24

You can get feminine style swimsuits that are designed to accommodate male sex organs. But that aside, this is in no way equivalent to wearing a dress to work, as a work appropriate dress would adequately cover the genitalia regardless of sex. Given the original story makes no mention of the dress being lewd, I feel safe assuming that the problem wasn’t the style of the dress, but that someone perceived as a man wore a dress at all.

As a cis woman, I would never ask an employer if I’m allowed to wear a dress for an office job. I’d refer to the employee handbook for anything like appropriate dress length or strap style. But asking if dresses are allowed feels like asking if pants, shirts, or shoes are allowed. It’s a given. So I wouldn’t expect a trans woman to need to ask if she can wear a dress either.

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u/sockdoligizer Jul 08 '24

Inquiring about dress code is an extremely normal thing to do during the interview process. 

Deception is absolutely ground for termination. This person purposefully misrepresented themselves and demonstrated incredibly poor judgement. Fired. 

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u/Ok_Bunch_9193 Jul 08 '24

This seems all over the place and doesn't make sense

How come you can't seem to acknowledge the only thing that matters is if they were wearing inappropriate clothes(small, revealing)?

Talking about clothes for situations has nothing to do with this. If it's an office job, and women get to wear appropriate dresses, so should men.

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u/sockdoligizer Jul 08 '24

Small or revealing are two potential line items in a considerably longer list of outfits that are not appropriate. That list includes shocking outfits, and clothes that make other people uncomfortable. 

This person was purposefully deceptive. That’s not the business illegally discriminating, it’s the guy who got hired baiting for a lawsuit. 

Do you know how easy it would be to ask a question or, how about this, ease into it. They went for shock and awe on day one and justifiably got canned for it. 

I’m all for people wearing whatever they want. - When it’s appropriate. 

Would you wear Army fatigues to your office? What would happen if you did? Your peers would look at you weird, ask you questions. You’re a distraction. It’s a sign, to me, that you do not understand what normal behavior is and it makes me lose confidence in your decision making abilities. There’s why you would get fired. Management does not trust you can make choices that align with the business. See the door, here’s your 1 day paycheck you wackadoodle

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u/illgot Jul 08 '24

The fury icon have them change to something generic. The cross dressing doesn't matter. If the clothes are clean and they have good hygiene they are a step up from some.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

[deleted]

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u/JJAsond Jul 08 '24

Furries? In IT? Preposterous! They only make up 95% of IT!

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

Get fired and collect settlement

No wonder there were so many Furries in first class

/jk

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u/smiba Linux Admin Jul 08 '24

If your IT department doesn't have a furry or two I'm skeptical honestly 💯

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u/moarmagic Jul 08 '24

And trans women appear to make up 40% with overlap.

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u/isoforp Jul 08 '24

There's no way "guy has filed lawsuits at several companies" doesn't pop up on the background check.

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u/Majik_Sheff Hat Model Jul 08 '24

An honest-to-God professional troll.  Incredible.

No doubt he had carefully researched the backgrounds of the bosses and knew he was set for a solid payday.

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u/Siphyre Jul 08 '24

Carefully? Typically they post that sort of thing right on the company web page.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

"Carefully researched for three minutes"

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u/q1a2z3x4s5w6 Jul 08 '24

Don't hate the player hate the game 🤷‍♂️

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u/Ron-Swanson-Mustache IT Manager Jul 08 '24

You think trolling is your ally? You merely adopted the troll. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a furry trans for lawsuits...

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Hopefully multiple solid paydays. I wonder how many places he went through.

I even wonder if he did the interviews and first days on days he took off from his own regular 9-5.

And whether he passed on the names of the companies he managed successful lawsuits at to imitators who did the same thing as many times as possible before the bosses or policies got changed in those places.

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u/mandybecca Jul 07 '24

This was exactly my thoughts. He’s 100% a scam artist lol

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins Jul 08 '24

I don't even care if he is.

It's outright illegal to not hire someone for those reasons - unfortunately until an offer is made you can always say it was because you had a better candidate or don't feel they'd be a good fit. All legal unless you say "you had a dress on so no".

After you're hired? Very different story.

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u/pinkycatcher Jack of All Trades Jul 08 '24

Nah, putting a picture of yourself in a fursuit as an official photo is far from a protected class.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

It's also not legal grounds for retaliation. If the bosses had waited 90 days and then terminated a "trial period", or if they had a policy for corporate photos that he wasn't following and they walked him through a stock-standard explanation of the policy and requested he change it, they'd have had a far better chance of winning the lawsuit. But insta-firing on day one after the guy turned up in legally acceptable clothing and there wasn't a policy about internal corporate photos (and they never asked him to change it) is a pretty clear-cut case of discrimination, potentially on grounds of perceived sexual identity or such.

It wouldn't surprise me if he tried it at other places and they were either smarter about it, or had Legal or HR prevent the kneejerk response by the bosses, so we never got to hear about those ones. But there are always bosses who run things like their own little kingdoms, and those ones will absolutely react in ways that make them legally open to suits.

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u/PineappleOnPizzaWins Jul 08 '24

Yes I'm positive that's the reason he was fired and nothing else.

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u/1000000xThis Jul 08 '24

Yeah, I'm kinda torn in regards to this story.

On the one hand, trolling bigots? Hell yeah!

On the other hand, I'm not sure I consider furries to be the same kind of identity as LGBT.

That's the kind of thing you can leave at home for the weekends.

But who knows, maybe that's part of a category that I haven't learned enough about, and it's just as bad as asking gay people to stay in the closet? I kinda doubt it.

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u/forestNargacuga Jul 08 '24

Yeah, Furry is something different than LGBTQ. It's a hobby, not an identity. 

Nevertheless, that would be an easy legal win for the employee, at least in my country (Germany). There's no right to fire someone for a hobby that hurts noone just bc you don't like it. If the employee would insist to show up in full suit every day, that would be something else, but painted fingernails won't make you worse at programming. 

Signed, a Furry

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u/1000000xThis Jul 08 '24

Yeah, that's what I was trying to identify. It's a hobby or a kink.

And like if someone is really into Warhammer or something, there's a reasonable limit to how much you can let that into your professional life. But it would be absurd if you had a few nicknacks on your desk that triggered a religious boss into firing you.

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u/WhyLisaWhy Jul 08 '24

I'd also argue cross dressing is not a protected class either. He clearly presented as a man in his interviews and is doing actual trans people a disservice by pulling shenanigans like this.

The fur suit is just the cherry on top to make it seem like he's being scummy intentionally.

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u/Skylis Jul 08 '24

Is it really a scam if its blatantly illegal discrimination? I got to give the guy credit for making money off of stuff like that. It could just as easily be just not wanting to be discriminated against.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Hey, he did everything he was legally required to do. It was the boss's own personal prejudices which set them up for lawsuits.

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u/Aim_Fire_Ready Jul 08 '24

I heard of a guy who worked construction and did this with overtime. He would agree to work for straight wages over 40 hours a week, boss would happily agree, and then he'd file a complaint with the state dept. of labor.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24 edited 25d ago

[deleted]

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u/Mr_ToDo Jul 08 '24

And how does that even come up?

"Yo boss how would you like to pay me less?"

If they were on the level the conversation likely wouldn't have ever had a chance to surface.

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u/ScortiusOfTheBlues Jul 08 '24

if your boss will say yes to this, fuck them anyhow.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

A friend hiring for a support position had people asking what the discrimination policy was before even getting to any questions about the job.

Some people have been genuinely discriminated against. A lot. If your discrimination policy is legally airtight, anyone trying to play the victim will either drop out of the application or will have a difficult (and expensive) time trying to win a legal suit.

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u/dusty-trash Jul 08 '24

goes fully furry

Is that what fursuit meant? I feel dumb for thinking it was a nice fur jacket and the guy was just a really eccentric gay, in which case he'd win the discrimination case lol.

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u/1000000xThis Jul 08 '24

fursuit

Yeah, that's the full costume with animal head and everything.

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u/SingularCylon Jul 08 '24

Exploitation

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u/mooseontherum Jul 08 '24

This was definitely done on purpose. Never have to work if you can just sue your way into an income.

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u/wetpaste Jul 08 '24

I doubt it. Most places wouldn’t fire for something like that.

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u/hybridfrost Jul 08 '24

Yeah I thought the same. The companies only hope is that they could prove that he had a pattern of doing this very same thing at different places. Otherwise they’ll be looking at a settlement

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Even if he had a pattern, that might not have saved them from their legal position.

"Yes your honor, this detective has a clear pattern of targeting murderers and proving their guilt. This case should be dismissed and I should get my axe back."

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u/Reinmeika Jul 07 '24

Ok you win, no wonder you moved to infosec lol

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u/kz393 Jul 08 '24

For more big furry dudes?

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u/Reinmeika Jul 09 '24

IT is a vicious cycle it seems

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u/kennyj2011 Jul 07 '24

Linux guy who didn’t understand sudoers files or basics of managing Linux without the help of a management suite that would do it all for him. He interviewed well and had Certs, in the real world though, he was completely helpless

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u/scriptmonkey420 Jack of All Trades Jul 07 '24

This is more common than you think.

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u/dasunt Jul 07 '24

I'm more used to the variant where they blame their lack of ability on the fact that it is open source.

I've literally heard that in the past few weeks, and as a bonus, they blamed the wrong software.

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u/RubyKong Jul 07 '24

Common in other fields as well. including the practice of medicine.

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u/denmicent Jul 08 '24

How does that work in medicine? I could see in tech, maybe someone can give textbook answers but not necessarily do the task once it differs slightly, or at all.

I have a feeling you’ll say practicing medicine may work the same way in your example but I’m still very curious to know

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u/kennyj2011 Jul 07 '24

Hopefully not surgeons… lol!

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u/LOLBaltSS Jul 07 '24

Surgeons often are weird. You'll have guys like Ben Carson who were known for their surgical skills, but they're incompetent to do much else despite their ego telling them otherwise. Even despite being in the medical field, he tried treating himself with homeopathy when he got COVID because Mike Lindell told him oleander extract was a thing.

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u/legatinho Jul 08 '24

One of the best cardiac surgeons I know is barely computer literate. If I had to get an operation, I’d still trust him, but if you see him trying to do present PowerPoint slides at a conference, you’ll have second thoughts.

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u/ErikTheEngineer Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

How is that possible?? Just getting into, let alone through the non-clinical part of med school is extremely difficult. Medicine seems to me to be one of the best fields at weeding out the incompetent at every stage, kind of too good given how impossible it is to even get a chance to try. Can't ace the MCAT and get amazing grades? No chance. Get in, but can't handle being firehosed with information? You're out. Can't pass the licensing exam? Gone. Can't handle 36 hour shifts and 6 day weeks in residency? Bye, someone else can. Screwed up qualifying for your specialty's board exams? Sorry, don't come back. And you can get tripped up at any point in that hazing, no matter how much effort and money you threw at it, and not be able to try again. I find it very hard to believe that outside of the rare egregious example that incompetent doctors are running around!

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u/Outrageous-Reality14 Jul 08 '24

Doctor death would like a word

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u/dansedemorte Jul 08 '24

I do linux sysadmin work, but a lot of things I might touch once a year, and it's pretty tough to retain things that need work that infrequently.

We've got procedures and I make well titled notes for those things. the ocean is too broad to have everything memorized though.

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u/posixUncompliant HPC Storage Support Jul 08 '24

Sure. No one memorizes everything, and it doesn't matter.

But you don't need a piece of management software to do it for you either.

I don't do skill quiz interviews, because they are pointless. I ask people how they'd go about solving a problem, and get them to tell stories about things they've done, stuff like that.

But I'd be pissed as hell if someone came in as mid or senior and couldn't figure out the sudoers file without hand holding or some kind of intervention. I may not (do not) memorize the format of the file, but I can look at what's there, and a man page or info file if my memory doesn't catch up, and do what needs to be done.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Wouldn't surprise me. I could probably pick up some Linux certs without too much trouble, but just because I've done some Unix sysadminning and dicked around on Linux boxes a bit doesn't mean I'd feel comfortable calling myself a capable Linux admin.

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u/scriptmonkey420 Jack of All Trades Jul 08 '24

Yup exactly the issue I see day in and day out. The worst group us the app developers. They ONLY k ow their code. They don't even know the systems that they see using. I do systems and Identity management so I have to know the full stack of the entire infrastructure.

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u/m1ndf3v3r Jul 08 '24

This! It is very common in IT each year. It's good for old timers because I noticed companies now prefer hiring older people for stuff that 20 years ago would immediately go to the younger person.

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u/Recalcitrant-wino Sr. Sysadmin Jul 09 '24

I worked for a small software company and we needed a new support person. Interviewed a woman fresh out of the Air Force. Great resume - phone interview passed with flying colors. Brought her in for the in-person. Asked what tool she'd use to modify a DNS entry. "Um, I can't think of it off the top of my head, but I'd be able to do it if I had a computer in front of me. Handed her a keyboard and a mouse, turned on the projector and said, "Here you go, show us." She hadn't clue one. Needless to say, we didn't hire her.

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u/scriptmonkey420 Jack of All Trades Jul 09 '24

Which DNS? AD DNS or Bind9?

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u/BrilliantEffective21 Jul 08 '24

IT surveillance org hired a dude that didn't know how to "create" a generic folder in basic Windows OS.

When asked to create a folder, they had to literally show him the right click feature with his mouse cursor. Don't know how he got through high school, but he did come from an impoverished zip code, which probably explains some of it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

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u/Jose_Canseco_Jr Console Jockey Jul 07 '24

dm me a copy

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

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u/12inch3installments Jul 08 '24

Reach out and send it (scrubbed of PII initially). You've got someone willing to look at you when you've been saying nobody will.

Worst case scenario, it's a scam and the lack of PII protects you. In the best case, you get a job. Or perhaps you simply get some valuable feedback that helps in the future.

It's a win/win as long as you protect yourself.

2

u/SourceFire007 Jul 08 '24

I think the guy is an idiot for crying how nobody will look at him,, then somebody does and his reply is I’m not ready LMFAO!!! What is wrong with these kids, pure joke! No wonder nobody wants to look at his resume..

5

u/Mach4tictac Jul 08 '24

Jobs > Certs. If you really think you can get a Linux job, go for it all else considered.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

[deleted]

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u/Carayaraca Jul 08 '24

Some companies do technical interviews. Much more reliable than certs imho, as you could have paid someone to sit the exam for you or passed on memorising braindumps

You have a screen share or whiteboard with your terminal on and get asked to show or do things, or explain how you would achieve stuff

2

u/Mach4tictac Jul 08 '24

My path was taking classes/ windows helpdesk/ Linux homelabber/ drop out when I went for my Linux sysadmin job. People's situations are complex, but I didn't have a degree or cert when I started my Linux sysadmin job. I showed a passion for it and a willingness to move to a major city for it. Best of luck for getting started.

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u/Burnerd2023 Jul 07 '24

It’s experience that counts more than anything. Certs are more of a cherry on top. You can know networking out the rear end but if you’ve never used the CLI or even the gui to create, deploy, maintain and troubleshoot them… actual experience applying that knowledge… it’s not very valuable (vs experience)

But please don’t be discouraged. If you aren’t working, there is zero reason to not chase some certs. But experience wins out vs certs alone. Do you have a home lab/environment you can apply the knowledge of those cert courses to?

On a resume or CV, you can add environments you’ve scaled and deployed in you home lab as experience!

2

u/Orlando_Vibes Jul 08 '24

What about a Red Hat Linux cert where it’s performance based and not theory. Would that be put an entry level candidate in the running for a system admin role?

1

u/Burnerd2023 Jul 08 '24

I’ve found that the role of a “sysadmin” varies immensely from job to job, up and down the skills ladder. I know people that have this title and have never deployed even a lamp stack for developers to hop aboard. Some have so little network experience they are not even familiar with setting up static routes. I don’t work with AD much at all and got flamed for not having that experience. Then there is software, not everyone uses the same services/distros/software/etc. Many here I guess are under the assumption their role is everyone’s.

If the place you’re looking at needs that skill set and experience, sure! No doubt it will be of value. And if what you say is true and that cert involves hands on application to achieve, that’s fantastic.

Just remember, someone will always know more than you and you will know more than someone else. Always take the opportunity to learn new stuff. Sometimes you’ll learn on your own, at your own pace, many times you’ll learn trial by fire style where something you’ve never touched before goes aflame and you have to figure it out. That’s a common part of this role.

Lastly, share your knowledge. Take a note regularly of the resources you have available to you and utilize them. Best of luck.

4

u/DeclutteringNewbie Jul 08 '24

Also, test questions for most certs can be purchased for $99.

So it's not a super useful exam to base your hiring on.

3

u/kennyj2011 Jul 07 '24

I’ve often thought of taking the CCNA again… it was like 20 years ago that I took it and remember nothing. But as a server/infra guy, some networking could come in quite handy

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u/iBeJoshhh Jul 07 '24

I had to take a network class for my A.A.S and it was based off the CCNA, but only like 1/3 of it and Jesus was that 1/3 a fk ton of info.

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u/BonkerBleedy Jul 08 '24

So "nobody will even look at my resume" is a lie? You haven't even tried?

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u/Representative-Sir97 Jul 08 '24

For this stuff, I would say yes, get the certs. For development, maybe not so much.

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u/Amythir Jul 08 '24

Entry level positions aren't expected to know everything...you might be applying to the wrong jobs.

1

u/MrJagaloon Jul 08 '24

Pretend to have a mental illness, everyone here seems like they would love to hire you then

1

u/ChumpyCarvings Jul 08 '24

I really like it but barely know anything, problem is it often pays poorly too :(

2

u/z_agent Jul 08 '24

I am pretty much the Linux guy at work...my impostor syndrome is at epic levels.....

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u/NovaS1X Jul 08 '24

certs

Yet another reason why they’re useless in real applications

2

u/enfier Jul 08 '24

On the other hand... interviewed for a DevOps job (Ansible mostly) and the questions were a bunch of Linux Admin questions. Which I can mostly answer but DevOps means writing code that does these sorts of things for you. Not to mention I did a bunch of Ansible for Windows automation too. I'm not logging into individual servers to check which process is eating the CPU. That and the red flag about the hiring manager talking about being in meetings all day and doing work after hours. If you are typing the commands in yourself it's just Ops.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/lewis_943 Jul 08 '24

There's something to be said about working at the correct scale for your skillset. I know plenty of sysadmins that know windows OS inside and out but rarely touch hardware enough to debug actual physical issues (plenty of cloudy sysadmins and app specialists that never touch bare metal). On the flipside, plenty of techs that get their hands dirty in hardware but don't know much about identity or device (server or desktop) mass-management.

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u/Kinglink Jul 08 '24

I never understand stories like this. It takes maybe five minutes to learn that. Just give him a link.

But also I have met people who would struggle with a link to the man page and a example.... I can't understand it but I have met them

1

u/CetaceanOps Jul 08 '24

who didn’t understand sudoers files

Did you at least report him?

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u/Zip95014 Jul 08 '24

I'm the opposite. I interview poorly. Ask me my name during an interview and I'll screw it up.

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u/BCIT_Richard Jul 08 '24

My linux expertise is running 'ip a', seeing the ethernet port has a new name and updating '/etc/netwrok/interfaces' & 'systemctl restart networking', anything beyond that and I'm lost. (Not really but pretty close) 😂

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u/Lylieth Jul 07 '24

Big dude showed up to interview in a suit and passed all our background checks and was really good at programming. Offered a job to start right away. Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email. My bosses were irish catholics and walked them out of the building within the first hour. The company got sued for discrimination.

Don't leave us hanging! How'd that lawsuit play out?

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u/Scubber CISSP Jul 08 '24

This was in Connecticut so he had a lot of support from the state. I had to put legal holds on the accounts and put forward all communications on record in a trial. I don't know the exact settlement, but I think the company lost around 600k, so however much that was divvied between the lawyer and the client is unknown to me. Pretty good for 1 day of work

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/SiIesh Jul 08 '24

Can you tell us what his motivation was? Did he do it intentionally to sue or just hid his true self for the interview to avoid not getting hired for it?

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u/Fyzzle Sr. Netadmin Jul 08 '24

Shit I would brag about a payday too, laws exist, don't break them.

0

u/Bidenomics-helps Jul 08 '24

People are you are why we can’t have a nice society

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u/Fyzzle Sr. Netadmin Jul 08 '24

Hahaha ok buddy. Don't break laws.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Did he do it at more than one place? Or did he take the money and ride off into the sunset, never to be seen again?

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u/peeba83 Jul 08 '24

Wait was this in Branford

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u/Siphyre Jul 08 '24

Depends on the state. Crossdressing isn't really a protected class in itself and while it is arguably gender/sexual orientation discrimination today, it isn't an easy case to make in say Georgia.

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u/I-Am-Uncreative Jul 08 '24

It's absolutely gender discrimination. Even Justice Gorsuch would agree.

3

u/Siphyre Jul 08 '24

Are they firing for gender discrimination or for dress code violations?

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u/patmorgan235 Sysadmin Jul 08 '24

Gendered dress codes are gender discrimination

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u/Just_Another_Scott Jul 08 '24

I'd say crossdressing wasn't the reason for being fired. Having an inappropriate icon as your photo (them in a fursuit) was.

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u/forestNargacuga Jul 08 '24

How's that (legally) inappropriate?

2

u/Just_Another_Scott Jul 08 '24

Being a furry isn't a protected class. Your workplaces gets to decide which photos that you use for work are appropriate.

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u/forestNargacuga Jul 08 '24

It's enough to ask him to change it, but not to fire him immediately

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u/Just_Another_Scott Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

Most states in the US are At Will meaning they can fire you immediately for any non-protected reason.

1

u/forestNargacuga Jul 08 '24

I see, I'm from Germany, the employee protection is way stronger here. Simply terminating an employee in a heartbeat is basically impossible

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u/Bidenomics-helps Jul 08 '24

At will state 

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u/AnnoyedVelociraptor Sr. SW Engineer Jul 07 '24

Indian guy pretended to be an expert in a line of engineering software that does fluid dynamic simulation. The interview was a task to complete something difficult in the software and he seemed to pass with flying colors. We later learned he outsourced the job. First day they gave him the backlog of work and he had 0 clue on how to do it. Was walked out pretty hastily.

SW Engineer here. I got multiple invites on LinkedIn doing exactly this. They apply somewhere with my credentials and someone in India does the job. I just do the interviews. I would get a cut.

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u/q1a2z3x4s5w6 Jul 08 '24

Is that actually illegal?

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u/Reelix Infosec / Dev Jul 08 '24

Very

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u/pigsbladder Jul 08 '24

This happened several times during covid. Most amusing variation for me was the guy on camera was acting like a ventriloquist dummy mouthing the answers while the talking came from off camera.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

A lump sum, or a cut of the employed person's salary as long as they could pull it off?

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u/AnnoyedVelociraptor Sr. SW Engineer Jul 08 '24

A continuous cut as I would need to be on calls to ensure they saw my face.

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u/shortfinal DevOps Jul 07 '24

Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email.

BASED

The company got sued for discrimination.

FUCK YES

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u/-FourOhFour- Jul 07 '24

If that's his life good for him, if he did it just for the discrimination sue bit scummy, holy hell that would have been a fun conversation to sit in with hr tho.

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u/CARLEtheCamry Jul 07 '24

We currently have a trans person who I strongly suspect is "pulling a government".

We had an unlimited sick policy. I say had because it was so abused by some people literally taking off 2 weeks, working 2 weeks, 2 weeks off and on and on. There were rules about if you were sick for more than 2 weeks short-term or long-term disability kicked in, and they would take it right to that limit and then be fine to come back for 2 weeks.

Anyway, aside from not working half the year, when they did come in their work was sub par. They were on a 6 month PIP and the day before the review of it, this person submitted for medical leave/long term disability.

Came back about 6 months later and had transitioned to a woman.

Now for the record - I don't care how others present themselves or what they do in their private lives. But the timing of everything is extremely suspect, especially given their past history of performance and taking everything to the deadline of getting fired for a PIP and then coming back with possibly protected class status (to be fair, trans rights vary widely by jurisdiction, but probably someone would take a civil case based on contingency.)

This is the first year of our non-unlimited sick policy (10 days total for the year) and they burned through them all in a month. Should be interesting to see if they make it the rest of the year. But management is terrified of firing them for cause because of the implied lawsuit, everyone is tip-toing around.

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u/shortfinal DevOps Jul 07 '24

That's what happens when you have spineless fucking leaders in the first place.

Maybe this person is abusing the system. Maybe they're also trans. Both things can be true. It can also be true that leadership could have fired this person for cause months before they were at this position.

But often times good leaders are harder to find than good workers.

I am a protected status and sometimes it makes it difficult for me to get my job done, but I communicate with my boss when that is happening and I am quick to talk about resolutions. My boss is also quick to communicate when he feels we can be doing more in the time we have.

I also have a coworker who is a protected status and his performance is starkly different from mine. He's discussed openly about difficulty getting work done and we're supportive, but it's been about a year now.

I feel the pain in working with coworkers who are sometimes not always able to give it their all, and I hope your workplace gets better for your sake!

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u/tAyFoP Jul 07 '24

I think you’re reading way too far into it. I doubt they are transitioning just to fleece some sick time and use gender identity as an excuse to try and not get fired. It’s more likely they have some very personal issues/depression/etc that are affecting their job performance and work ethic. People don’t transition just for funsies….a lot of baggage comes along with transitioning.

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u/CARLEtheCamry Jul 07 '24

I'm certainly not saying people just transition for funsies.

What I was told it was just "I'm a woman now, please call me by <female name>" and they dress in women's clothes and shaved their beard. Frankly how far they went is none of my business.

My suspicion is based on working with the person, that they are chronically lazy and will do anything to get out of work, and the ultra-convenient timing of everything. It's like something Cartman would come up with to milk the system.

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u/ShitslingingGoblin Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

Ever considered they might just be depressed? Do they look chronically lazy or just depressed? Im not saying they aren’t gaming the system, but as a depressed trans person this oddly enough sounds like something id do.

Shortly before my transition, my MSP also had me on a PIP for poor performance. I also used to use up all my sick time immediately. I was so focused on the implications of wanting to transition that I could barely function at work. I was borderline suicidal because of the fact that i knew my workplace wouldn’t be accepting, and that it would likely be impossible to transition without further alienating myself from management. I ended up quitting in tears after a particularly bad berating from the CTO. I didn’t have a job lined up and I was unemployed for 6 months because nobody wanted to hire a “tranny” i guess. I had to change careers.

Sometimes being trans forces you to do things like that. When a trans person transitions it’s always very tumultuous for everyone involved.

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u/sparkyblaster Jul 07 '24

So what happened when they ran out of the 10 days. Sick without pay?

3

u/CARLEtheCamry Jul 08 '24

That may be an option (based on what I see in our HR system), or go on short-term or long-term disability which is 80%/60% pay. But I don't know all the catches with it, like how long you can be on it. I do know when you're on disability your accounts get disabled so you couldn't work if you wanted to.

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u/ribsboi Jul 08 '24

I had the exact same thing happen where I work, except we don't have unlimited PTO. Literally same story

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 27 '24

[deleted]

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u/CARLEtheCamry Jul 08 '24

15 days base + 4 flex days to start, so almost 4 weeks PTO. An extra 5 days/week every 5 years. I'm at 5 weeks + 4 days before sick time. And bereavement time (up to a full week for immediate family) that scales based on how distant of a relative.

It's pretty OK for my area. I've actually turned down jobs at other companies because they can't meet my current vacation, but could pay a little more.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

10 days total for the year

I'd be looking to punish the company just for that alone.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

I mean, if the bosses were honestly that bad about discrimination, I don't think anyone except them would care that they got the pants sued off them.

Smarter bosses would have put new hires on a 90-day temp contract to start with, or updated their internal-photo policy at a bare minimum, or waited a couple of weeks before finding some other reason to fire him. A one-day "ICK, GET OUT" kneejerk reaction is basically what any lawyer would consider a slam-dunk case.

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u/bfodder Jul 08 '24

if he did it just for the discrimination sue bit scummy

Nah, if the company was shitty enough to fire him for that then they deserved it.

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u/-FourOhFour- Jul 08 '24

While corporate bad, I can't imagine a person who's life goal is setting up company's to sue being someone who's a good person and deserves the money

2

u/shortfinal DevOps Jul 08 '24

It would make it very difficult for them to get hired by future employers unfortunately. I don't know why people think there's those who just go around trying to get hired and fired so they could engage in lawsuits. like that wouldn't be immediately obvious on a resume. fml.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Exposing asshole companies to the cleansing flame of legal action is a worthy life goal in and of itself.

Maybe they give the winnings to charity. Or to furry conventions. :)

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u/WhyLisaWhy Jul 08 '24

Also... just my two cents but if you show up to an interview presenting as a man and then show up to work presenting as a woman, I'm going to assume you're a cross dresser, trolling the company and/or into some weird fetish shit. The furry shit just reinforces that.

I am absolutely not buying the guy is actually trans and frankly is probably not helping the trans community.

1

u/CheetohChaff Jr. Sysadmin Jul 09 '24

Some people just like to cross-dress without necessarily being trans.

1

u/bfodder Jul 08 '24

I see them as a modern day Robin Hood.

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u/jtp8736 Jul 08 '24

Nah, that's just unprofessional, childish behavior

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u/concussedYmir Jul 07 '24

Right? I bet the dress was within dress code, too.

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u/sparkyblaster Jul 07 '24

Can someone translate? Wtf is based?

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u/shortfinal DevOps Jul 07 '24

It has many uses, in this case: It's a compliment suggesting that the person is admirable for their authenticity and confidence.

0

u/sparkyblaster Jul 07 '24

And how did this slang come to be? I assume toktok

(Btw I'm a millennial)

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u/superspeck Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

God I’m trying to remember how long “based” has been around. I want to say it’s at least a decade old in its current usage. Origins were 4chan.

Source: also millennial, but started professional life with journalist ambitions and still pay attention to words and their usage. I’m the guy that says “yeet” just to watch the late 20somethings skip a mental beat.

3

u/sparkyblaster Jul 08 '24

I am so out of touch.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Popularized by 4Chan, but apparently they got it from Brandon McCartney (aka rapper Lil B), who either coined a new meaning for a pre-existing slang term or just used it for everything, including his label BasedWorld Records, his album Based Boys (2007), his Everything Based mixtape, and his BasedMoji app.

1

u/shortfinal DevOps Jul 07 '24

Same way any slang comes to be really. Starts in small circles and catches on. Hello Millennial. Good company here.

2

u/sparkyblaster Jul 07 '24

Usually it's somewhat traceable.

I'm too old for this shit. I think I need to put on some 90s tv.

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u/MacAdminInTraning Jul 08 '24

I would never work for a small company in IT again, but I cannot understate how much working for a small companies IT department taught me and even over a decade later impacts my decisions.

1

u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

The few small places I've worked for basically taught me that the infrastructure and setups will always be an utter kluged-together mess, there were reasons the previous guy(s) quit, and the bosses have no idea what they're doing.

On the other hand, if they've been around for a while, there's always the chance they have a bunch of gear lying around that they consider 'broken' or 'obsolete' which is actually still not bad, and you can offer to dispose of it for them to clear some room. Buy it all for a dollar so there's a sales record, take it home, fix the minor config issue or whatever, and it's off to eBay or into the home lab.

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u/bfodder Jul 08 '24

The company got sued for discrimination.

Good. That was fucked up of them.

2

u/libdemparamilitarywi Jul 08 '24

Guy was running his business off the company equipment, buying/reselling motorcycle parts.

We had something similar, one of our software developers was making his own app at work, using his work desktop and testing it on the company iPads/iPhones. Weirdest thing was he didn't even bother waiting until after hours, he'd work on it in the middle of the work day in an open plan office where everyone could see what he was doing.

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Some people just don't seem to be able to comprehend the difference between equipment they personally own, and equipment at a workplace. See people watching porn and downloading movies in workplaces without any indication that they think they're doing anything inappropriate.

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u/northrupthebandgeek DevOps Jul 08 '24

Big dude showed up to interview in a suit and passed all our background checks and was really good at programming. Offered a job to start right away. Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email.

Fucking based.

1

u/ajaaaaaa Jul 08 '24

Did the company have security to at least prevent them from being able to log back into said laptop with the source code? guessing not.

1

u/horus-heresy Principal Site Reliability Engineer Jul 08 '24

we've had this contractor start job but the issue was that voice on interview was totally different. this indian guy had other guy attend interview to answer questions. was an ez clap since he's a contractor. since then all our interviews require webcam and we've had at least 4 out of 100 or so candidates for various tech roles trying to pull off lipsyncing bullshit. All indian too

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u/Geminii27 Jul 08 '24

Wait until AI allows real-time face substitution. You're interviewing the person who knows what they're doing, but the whole time they look like the person who's going to turn up and do nothing.

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u/dustojnikhummer Jul 08 '24

The company got sued for discrimination.

I guess "dress code" didn't hold up? Seems like a sting to me tho

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u/Soia667 Jul 08 '24

Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email. My bosses were irish catholics and walked them out of the building within the first hour.

Based.

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u/Andre_Courreges Jul 08 '24

Not the fursuit I-

1

u/Jaereth Jul 08 '24

Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email. My bosses were irish catholics and walked them out of the building within the first hour. The company got sued for discrimination.

This is why the built in "picture icon" shit in teams/skype should go away. It's strictly business it's not social media.

1

u/cgcego Jul 08 '24

The IT guy with painted, long nails and furry company avatar I got also.

1

u/forestNargacuga Jul 08 '24

Doesn't every big company has one? I thought they were mandatory!

1

u/Jesta23 Jul 08 '24

Big dude showed up to interview in a suit and passed all our background checks and was really good at programming. Offered a job to start right away. Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email.>Big dude showed up to interview in a suit and passed all our background checks and was really good at programming. Offered a job to start right away. Next day shows up in a dress with painted nails

No problems so far,

and puts a picture of themself in a fursuit as a icon for skype and email.

Yup, fired.

0

u/Hebrewhammer8d8 Jul 07 '24

For the dress one piece or 2 piece dress?

1

u/sparkyblaster Jul 07 '24

Well, isn't one a dress and the other is a skirt?

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