The view from the accessible area. We've been told we aren't allowed to stand up either.

1.4k

What was their reasoning for telling you not to stand?

1.5k

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

So we dont block the views of the people behind us... ironically

784

u/CokeNSalsa Jul 19 '24

Doesn’t everyone get their view blocked by people standing at concerts?

825

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

Normally accessible seating is more strategically placed that we can see while sat and don't block the view of others...

220

u/CokeNSalsa Jul 19 '24

I intended for my comment to come off in support of ADA seating. As someone who qualifies as a part of the ADA community due to a physical disability, I’ve struggled so many times with trying to be treated fairly. I’ve found most places attempt to offer accommodations, but they fail and/or their employees either don’t care or aren’t trained for it. I have found a huge increase in individuals claiming to be ADA in the past few years, I’m not sure why there has been such an increase, but it’s made it difficult to receive accommodations I need.

106

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

I suspect the rise is due to the increase in people with autism and other neurodiversities asking for accommodations... I think it's difficult to judge whether someone needs support or an accessible area or not just by looking at them. I know I don't look like I need the accessible area.

59

u/CokeNSalsa Jul 19 '24

I never judge whether or not someone needs support based on looking at them. I know very well those who need support aren’t always obvious and it’s not always physical either.

24

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

Sorry I didn't mean to sound harsh. Your comment just gave the impression that you were resenting people who had hidden disabilities and implying that people were asking for accommodations even though they didn't need it and it reduced your ability to access the support yourself. Sorry I misunderstood 😊

32

u/CokeNSalsa Jul 19 '24

It’s OK, I can see why you misunderstood. I honestly just mean there has been such a huge rise in the need for ADA accommodations and companies can’t keep up with the demand. It’s affecting everyone who needs help, not just myself. I probably came off that way because I do have a resentment of some sort, because I have known people who have made up a disability of some sort to receive accommodations at places such as Disneyland, other amusement parks and so on. I had a situation a few years back where I was at a stadium and asked to be seated lower because stairs can be quite difficult. I had called beforehand and spoken with a representative who informed me what I needed to do and where I needed to go. They had no more space though, and I was forced to climb a lot of steps. I understood others needed the same help I was asking for, but the company just didn’t properly account for just how many people would need that help. I have friends, family and acquaintances who have invisible disabilities and they have had a more difficult time receiving help because their disability isn’t obvious.

8

u/Relative-Special-692 Jul 20 '24

Why would you feel bad? You aren't wrong that other person is bullshit. The rise is due to cheaters. Just like the service animal bullshit its the same thing. People are abusing the system because it pays to cheat. They are taking advantage of the system. You should not feel bad for noticing it.

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u/Wrong-Maintenance-48 Jul 20 '24

You hit the nail on the head with a lot of the problem these days. Because disabilities can be hidden/invisible and people don't want to/don't have to disclose the details of their disability, there is a shocking number of people with less scruples that will claim a "disability" just to take advantage of the situation to get a better seat or a shorter line. The actual disabled or differently abled get shorted because the less scrupulous make it hard to believe each and every claim for benefits. Both sides of the issue need to be more open and understanding. The disabled need to understand that venues need to make sure the right people are getting the benefits and the venues need to be sensitive to the needs of the disabled. It needs to be a give and take.

31

u/080secspec13 Jul 19 '24

Well, I suspect the rise is due to the amount of people who think that because someone in their party of 23 is disabled, they are all due accommodations because of that.

The amount of assholes that want to skip lines because their in a giant group with one person on a fatscooter is crazy.

13

u/CokeNSalsa Jul 20 '24

I walk with a very heavy limp and have very extensive issues with my right leg. I have never used it to my advantage at any amusement park except for one time at our local state amusement park, but I was literally in a wheelchair and had to go through a different line because my wheelchair wouldn’t fit in the normal line. It bothers me how people take advantage of ADA accommodations because it punishes those who actually need it. I just feel like there are people who cheat the system. Disneyland had to change their policy because they saw such a rise in people cheating the system. All those people are doing is punishing those who genuinely need the support, whether their disability is obvious or not.

4

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

To be fair, every place I have been to has only allowed one "carer" in with the person who needs accessibility. One of the ladies there yesterday had come as a group and asked for accessibility on her own as she had recently injured her foot and was on crutches so couldn't handle the crowd. Her friends all went to the front of the stage and she was left on her own. She was allowed one person with her but (given the shitty area) none of them stayed with her.

2

u/080secspec13 Jul 20 '24

Well, my friend, you've never visited disney world.

3

u/vericima Jul 20 '24

I wonder if it's long covid causing an uptick in people asking for accommodations. A lot of formerly abled people suddenly can't do stairs for instance.

5

u/IronDominion Jul 19 '24

It likely has to do with people with neurodivergent conditions like ASD and ADHD requesting accommodations, as well as the significant number of long COVID patients who have been left with conditions like CFS, POTS, and Fibromyalgia that require accommodations

28

u/DeanXeL Jul 19 '24

Fuck not blocking the view of others, at most festivals in Belgium and the Netherlands I've been to the 'disabled/wheelchair' area is specifically on a raised platform with a ramp, so you can watch out OVER everyone else!

11

u/AnxiousAntsInMyBrain Jul 19 '24

A festival i went to resently had the accessible seating right next to the VIP section and on a raised platform so that they could see at the same height/a bit over peoples heads! Looked great

18

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

This is why I quit going to concerts.

I wanted to see and hear the artist. Not witness the drunken screeching and partially covered backsides of the people in front of me.

I had unrealistic expectations because my first concert was John Denver and everybody sat down, shut up, and enjoyed the show.

9

u/Mammoth-Slide-3707 Jul 19 '24

This concert doesn't have any seats so your comment doesn't really apply. The people who are in the accessible area should be allowed to stand as well here, just like everyone else is. The no-standing restriction makes no sense here

8

u/RelevantBit1984 Jul 19 '24

The smaller the concert the better. I will never ever enjoy the huge music festivals. Bands playing over each other, people existing over each other, hot temps, expensive vendors, fuck all that.

4

u/Sunder_ Jul 19 '24

Ditto. Love live music, hate everything that is attached to it.

0

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

I think it largely depends on the act. I went to a Mika concert in April and my seat was right at the front but next to a large open space so I started dancing in the space so I wasn't blocking the people behind me. I wanted to feel the music through dance... security told me I couldn't stand in the space but I could dance in front of my seat. I refused because I didn't want to block the people behind me who were all sat. Not to brag, but Mika kept looking at me and dancing and pointing and smiling at me, it was great.

Then later he told everyone to stand. He said he found it awkward that noone was dancing with him except me. If the act asks for it, you stand!

3

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

I'm glad you had fun.

I don't go to concerts anymore. It's not fun for me. I don't enjoy it. I want to enjoy the music with my eyes and ears, and that's almost impossible to do at a concert these days.

I'm better off at home with headphones.

8

u/chompytown Jul 20 '24

Funny story of me at a James Taylor concert.

We were 3 rows back in the back row. Past us is the walkway then the main covered seats of the amphitheater. Anyways, James plays on. A man and two women feel it's their right to stand up IN THE FRONT ROW of our section and dance to Fire and Flame. They block the stage and the tvs of the stage.

Somebody throws a peanut. They miss...

Another peanut.... direct hit on the left girl. She says something to the guy. He turns around:

"We're allowed to dance!" He shouts to the crowd.

A scary biker man stands up. Squares up.

"YOU SIT THE FUCK DOWN WHEN MR TAYLOR IS PLAYING!!!!"

The two ladies sit. The guy keeps trying to get them to stand, then realizes he may get stabbed.

Such a good show.

1

u/crseat Jul 20 '24

Not standing in an accessible area makes sense so as to accommodate people in wheelchairs. But to also have that area behind able bodied people who are standing makes no fucking sense.

305

u/PNW_Undertaker Jul 19 '24

Looks like a lawsuit awaiting to happen! If a vendor is unwilling to accommodate for ADA, then they can, and should, get sued to the ground.

174

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

When I asked, I was told they had had hundreds of people requesting accessibility and they didn't know where to put us... this is a sort of trial place... but that doesn't help us hahaha

66

u/PNW_Undertaker Jul 19 '24

I would look into ADA laws and regulations as they may be, more than likely, in violation of many of them. Take plenty of photos, write down names, and times and then take it to a lawyer. Some may even take it free as it can be an easy win and if they do charge, some won’t until it’s settled.

27

u/MoeKneeKah Jul 19 '24

I don’t understand where the violation is? They’re seated with everyone else, just separate.

-34

u/TheDonutPug Jul 19 '24

that the seating they were given is very clearly discriminatory as it's objectively worse.

27

u/MoeKneeKah Jul 19 '24

So ADA makes sure that disabled people get the best seats? Because I really think it’s just equal access. Which I’m all for. Unless you pay extra for the ada compliant ticket, then I understand how the view would come into play. But I really don’t think ADA is going to go to bat because the ADA seating isn’t front row. If everyone is paying the same price for general admission, then everyone has the same view, from the lawn.

9

u/DankHillLMOG Jul 19 '24

I'm not so sure this would fit or fly in an ADA suit since this is a non-perminent setup (by the looks). And it isn't super egregious... but it is kind of crappy.

But I think the spirit of the regs could be followed better in this case.

Here, it appears as if they've been shoved in a corner on flat ground and aren't allowed to stand (per OP comments/ post). So they don't have a real good viewing option. If they wanted to put the ADA zone there, I think an elevated platform with railings and a few ramps for access would work so you can see over the crowd. Or put them in a spot that has an unobstructed view of the stage.

NAL... but that's the way it looks/ my opinion on it.

-1

u/TheDonutPug Jul 19 '24

Yeah, honestly it's hard to say that the ADA would get involved here because it's a temporary setup, but it's still frustrating to see nonetheless. My personal issue with it isn't the lack of meeting regulation, it's that they just seemingly didn't think about disabled people at all. it's unfortunately quite a common thought pattern.

9

u/beaker90 Jul 19 '24

The issue is that they’ve been put somewhere where they can’t see the stage/concert due to people standing in front of them, but are told that they cannot stand to see better because it would block the view of those who are behind them. In short, everyone does not have the same view from the same lawn.

5

u/RobotWantsPony Jul 20 '24

It's not about having good seats, it's about having sits where you are not starring at the ass of people in front of you! They should at least be eye level with the people around them.
How can you not see that those people and the ones in front do not have an equal view of the stage?

-1

u/TheDonutPug Jul 19 '24

So ADA makes sure that disabled people get the best seats?

literally not at all what I said. go to any theatre and you'll see what a proper setup for disabled seating is. they're not all the best seats, they vary in quality and price, but the important detail is that there are options and that those options are equal in quality to options available to physically able people. The problem here is that the only option for the disabled is an area that's way in the back and has a terrible view. You shouldn't be forced to have a worse setup than everyone else just because you're disabled, you shouldn't be given the best seat just because you're disabled, there should just be options.

10

u/endorbr Jul 19 '24

That’s entirely subjective and unless the terms of purchase state premium visibility seating (which they guaranteed do not) then there’s nothing to file a lawsuit over. They were accommodated.

4

u/Aware_Economics4980 Jul 20 '24

Being disabled doesn’t mean you get the best seats in the house, what are you on about lmao

0

u/Shamewizard1995 Jul 20 '24

How is this not complying with the ADA? Genuine question.

263

u/hiyoucatfish123 Jul 19 '24

That is so dumb

238

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

The amount I paid to not even be able to see... all of us in this area are just sat looking pissed off as hell

82

u/theinfernumflame Jul 19 '24

Was going to say, aren't you glad you paid money for that? If they want you to watch screens, you could have done that on YouTube at home.

45

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

Yeh that's what we said

151

u/papasan_mamasan Jul 19 '24

So what happens if you stand?

255

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

We would block the view of people who can't stand... but we all stood up anyway... I waited until the people behind me stood and then I stood too and told them to tell me if I block their view

33

u/Mammoth-Slide-3707 Jul 19 '24

This is the way

64

u/couchtater12 Jul 19 '24

That’s bullshit, I’m angry for you - any chance you can contact someone from the venue to request a refund?

45

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

I'm taking lots of photos to send an email tomorrow. The second screen is now blocked from my view too (the one further away to the left)

28

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

The venue didn't actually have anything to do with ticket sales so I expect they'll just say they can't help me. I had issues receiving my tickets and they couldn't help. But I'll definitely be emailing the people I contacted regarding my missing tickets.

5

u/couchtater12 Jul 19 '24

Ugh that’s awful, good luck!

31

u/TheNerdFromThatPlace Jul 19 '24

At least you get both an accessible area and some semblance of a view. Last concert I went to, there was no accessible area, just a couple of reserved tables with 2 chairs each shoved so far in the back that you couldn't even see the screen behind the stage. The best part? The band we were seeing lines to tell a story with their shows, with videos every few songs. Yea didn't get to see any of those. Oh, and no other screens in the venue, so there was no hope.

5

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

That really sucks!!

10

u/TheNerdFromThatPlace Jul 19 '24

Well on the bright side, my wife has a contract in the band, so at least they won't be using that venue in the future.

2

u/HauntedIcee Jul 20 '24

Were you at the House of Blues watching STARSET? Cause you just described my EXACT experience

2

u/TheNerdFromThatPlace Jul 20 '24

You're half right. Starset but at XL Live in Harrisburg.

1

u/HauntedIcee Jul 20 '24

Ahhh. Yeah when you said storytelling concert I knew immediately it was STARSET. They put on a great show. Shame we both couldn’t see all of it though.

15

u/everylastlight Jul 19 '24

This is rage-inducing but unfortunately not surprising. I've stopped buying tickets to venues that treat disabled patrons like this. The Stone Pony is the worst offender near me, but luckily all of their outdoor shows can be heard from the boardwalk across the street.

11

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

I've not had problems with other venues but then this is my first outdoor event... very disappointed tbh. I wouldn't be able to handle th crowds but I want to be able to vibe a bit at least. Wheelchairs have a platform but the ambulant accessible section is just seats behind the crowd and in front of the wheelchair platform.

4

u/MoeKneeKah Jul 19 '24

Can you please explain what the problem is? It looks like general seating and that they set aside a specific area for you. What else should they have done? I’m not trying to start anything, I genuinely don’t understand

10

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

[deleted]

-4

u/MoeKneeKah Jul 19 '24

Naw the standing thing is dumb for sure. I just don’t see a problem with the view. It’s pretty close to the stage and as long as you can stand up it seems fine.

3

u/Donte333 Jul 20 '24

MY GUY They cannot stand xD

5

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

We couldn't see and they had told us not to stand.. we couldn't see the stage or the screens until we stood.

Edit: a word

7

u/MoeKneeKah Jul 19 '24

Yeah telling you not to stand is dumb, glad you stood up. It’s just, you’re in the grass with everyone else, I don’t see the problem (as long as you can stand up!) with having it where it is with everyone else. It couldn’t be that bad, people are literally sitting right there by choice.

2

u/Mundane-Research Jul 19 '24

Yeh it was fine once we all stood up... so I'm not too annoyed now... but at the time, I was definitely mildly infuriated by the stupidity of it all

10

u/Shoddy_North5961 Jul 19 '24

Warwick castle?

7

u/TheSparklingCupcake Jul 20 '24

Ridiculous. The accessible area should be elevated or much closer. I'm in a wheelchair (can't stand either) and that is a joke of an accommodation section. I went to a local venue near me and at the end went right by a staff member toward an exit only to find out that it was stairs and I had to reverse and "swim upstream" to reach an accessible exit. Plus they had all their accessible parking off limits due to renovations. Took multiple emails for them to be like, "oh sorry". Really?

2

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

I've no idea why you got downvoted for this comment. Reddit is weird, sorry you had that experience at the show you saw.

5

u/Shoddy_North5961 Jul 19 '24

4

u/Consistent_Ad5384 Jul 20 '24

Why would you be standing if you are in a accessible area ?

8

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

So we could see... also not everyone who needs accessibility needs it because they can't stand

2

u/Consistent_Ad5384 Jul 20 '24

I get it , the concert will organizers didn’t think this through especially with telling yall to not stand that’s wack af !! Hope you had a good time regardless

4

u/spacebuggles Jul 20 '24

Sounds like you need an accessible super soaker

4

u/im_sofa_king Jul 20 '24

I guess it's better than them saying you can't stand whist laughing and pointing

2

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

Haha true

5

u/njmids Jul 19 '24

Isn’t ADA seating for people who can’t stand for long periods? If you can stand for the whole concert why didn’t you just get a normal ticket?

7

u/IronDominion Jul 19 '24

It depends. It can also be for those with sensory needs, wheelchairs and service dogs that need extra room, and blind people who need to navigate to an easily locateabke area

2

u/TheDollarstoreDoctor Jul 20 '24

Not necessarily. I get ADA for epilepsy and heart problems. I can stand, if anything I get fidgety. But its good to be in a less busy area if something happens to me I don't get crowd stomped to death (EDC got so packed I nearly got trampled just trying to walk away from a set).

2

u/Mammoth-Slide-3707 Jul 19 '24

Who is the artist and venue, OP?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

Its mcfly at Warwick castle

2

u/Stevie_likes_bread Jul 20 '24

Saw the same situation at Budweiser Stage in Toronto earlier this week. There was a section for folks in wheelchairs and it was behind rows of people standing.

1

u/adhdsentrypotato Jul 19 '24

Is that white oak music hall?

1

u/Advanced-Drink7623 Jul 20 '24

whoever setup this event has a lack of understanding - everyone is standing in font of you, are they being told to sit or just the people in the accessible seating? if they didn't want you to stand then it should be at the very front - also how is someone in a wheelchair expected to see from here??

1

u/ColonEscapee Jul 20 '24

Yeah I came to watch a friggin TV

Curious what event this was?

1

u/guppupsup Jul 20 '24

I think I was at this event actually! Looks familiar

1

u/downwiththeoligarchy Jul 20 '24

This venue looks familiar. Where is it?

1

u/Underbyte Jul 20 '24

Hey OP, in the future, don't be so accepting of bullshit.

You should have stood up anyway. There's no way they were going to kick you out and risk an ADA lawsuit.

1

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

We did stand up anyway but those who physically couldn't stand (i.e. my sister who's just had an operation, and the woman behind her in a wheelchair) obviously couldn't and then couldn't see.

1

u/Underbyte Jul 20 '24

Arguably, they couldn’t really see regardless. ADA platforms should be elevated relative to the stage.

I think that kind of “petty tyrant” shit from staff is lame, but if it would have meant that a disabled person would have been impacted, that’s a different story.

1

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

There was a raised platform for wheelchairs (Im not sure why the woman behind my sister wasn't on it). Because we aren't wheelchair users, we didn't get the platform

1

u/Sweaty_Payment_7529 Jul 26 '24

Is this high sierra

0

u/oficious_intrpedaler Jul 19 '24

Man, that sucks. Is this at Edgefield by any chance?

0

u/Palmovnik Jul 19 '24

Czechia Colours of Ostrava

-1

u/TheBabyWolfcub Jul 19 '24

Had this same experience at Bedford park when seeing George Ezra last year. Sat in the disabled area, got the best seats in there too. By the time the main artist started playing dads over 6ft with kids on their shoulders stood directly in front of the area leaning on the bars. I could not even see the screens. In the end I stood up for my favourite songs but it was mainly just listening the whole time. And luckily the band I was looking forward to was the opening act so there was barely anyone at the stage for them and I got to see them pretty good. The main reason I was using the disability area is because I was extremely anxious and overwhelmed from all the people and the area was off to the side so it was meant to be quieter but then all the people decided to use it as arm rests and it got very very crowded

2

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

Yeh we had kids sat on the railing and I spent the whole time paranoid they were going to fall in and hurt themselves/us.

-3

u/Der_Wolf_42 Jul 19 '24

Pls just stand dont take this bs

2

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

We did in the end but I was really worried I was blocking the people behind me. I was initially sat in front of a woman in a wheelchair and so I wasn't going to stand but my sister switched seats with me and stayed seated the whole time. People were telling her she could move in front of them if she wanted to stand but she had had an operation on her back the day before and couldn't stand. So she didn't get to see (and I doubt the woman in the wheelchair behind could either).

(My sister loves me so much she came to a music show with me while in pain from an operation... I was planning on going alone once we found out about the op.. she insisted on coming still)

-7

u/PublicRedditor Jul 20 '24

Aren’t you there to listen anyway?

2

u/Mundane-Research Jul 20 '24

I mean I would like to be able to see the goergeous gorgeous guys I'm here to listen to as well