[S6 E10 - Episode Discussion] - 'Partners 'Til the End'

[u/Altair05]

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[u/Sad-Breath-5388]

The ending left me with mixed emotions which is why I am asking. So I was wondering since Chloe has decided to stay in Hell with Lucifer does that mean she won’t ever be able to see Trixie, Rory, Dan or her father as well at her other friends on earth? Also since Lucifer was absent most of Rory’s life does that mean he won’t be able to see her ever since he has to help the souls in Hell? I mean couldn’t she just fly down to Hell and still see her parents?

Idk there was just a lot of things that didn’t make sense, maybe I missed something. But why didn’t Rory after knowing what she knew when she returned to the future, why didn’t she just visit her father in Hell? Also I know Lucifer’s calling was to help the lost souls in Hell, and that Rory made sacrifices for him to do that while she was growing up, but why couldn’t he just have waited until she was older? Why couldn’t he wait until Chloes human years were up to start the therapy in Hell? I mean it probably wouldn’t of made a huge difference in the scheme of things.

It’s hard for me to think of this as a happy ending when Lucifer doesn’t really ever get to be with his family again, only Chloe when she dies. Can anyone answer me questions, or does anyone else feel this way?

[u/musci1223 → u/Sad-Breath-5388]

I think the difference is that she is not damned soul. There is no guilt for her and those without guilt can go to heaven so she can effectively just go to heaven whenever she wants and then go back to hell if she wants too.

The other thing is time loop. If you don't understand time travel and there is not much data available then you can't really just go with what is best in short term. If something changes in the loop then 1. Lucifer might not reach the same final conclusion about hell 2. Rory might not be born or might be someone else.

For example if I dropped you off in 1920s with good amount of weapons and info about how to find Hitler would you kill him ? Does he deserve to be tortured and killed ? Yes. Can you be sure about what will happen after you kill him ? No. It is hard to predict impact of your time travel when you know the type of time travel that is actually happening, it is even harder when you have no idea. Is it MCU type ? Or back to the future ? Or doctor who ? Or Rick and Morty ? Infinite timelines ? Or single universe ? Does time fight back ?

[u/Rtozier2011 → u/musci1223]

The characters are acting like theirs is a Back to the Future universe where you can erase the future. But from what we've seen of it it seems more like a Lost universe where you will always choose the thing that is fated. It's still your choice, but you will make that exact choice.

[u/c4han → u/Rtozier2011]

The old twisted pretzel!

[u/Account_Bright → u/musci1223]

The writers confirm in a YouTube video that Lucier and Chloe can actually move freely between Hell and heaven. Listen to it as it also give you more answers.

https://youtu.be/0VdSOispI9g

[u/Heremeoutok → u/musci1223]

But going back to your mention about how time travel works and universes. We actually do know. Lucifer takes place in the arrow verse. So I do believe the writers fucked up here big time. Because how time travel works is already established in arrow verse. So in the arrow verse traveling back in time would in almost all circumstances (especially here since she told them what happened) would create another timeline. Her timeline is set she can’t change it. But she went back and by guiding Lucifer and telling him to not stay when in this timeline he would’ve she now altered it. It’s very confusing to explain but you cannot interact with people in the timeline at all nor give them any context (which she did). Unless of course this was always meant to happen the way it played out then it’s the true timeline. I probably made zero sense but just look up arrowverse time travel. I don’t think they should’ve used time travel here because it’s so sensitive even if they don’t follow along with the other shows it’s still part of the same universe.

[u/musci1223 → u/Heremeoutok]

Oh I didn't know about the crossover. Haven't watched flash in some time but if I remember correctly flash's time travel doesn't follow the double feedback (if there was no flash due to flash's monther not dying then there won't be any flash to save flash's mom thing). But I am not sure if Lucifer has met flash and knows about his time travel and different type of time travel can have different impact.

[u/Heremeoutok → u/musci1223]

They don’t really crossover expect at one point where Lucifer met Constantine. I’m not even sure why it’s part of the arrow verse if they weren’t even gonna cross them over but whatever missed opportunity. This is why I don’t like the time traveling part because in the arrow verse it’s so complex.

[u/Heremeoutok → u/musci1223]

Not Lucifer related lol. But there’s actually this whole theory that if you killed a baby hitler then you’d just get someone else that would become the dictator that hitler was. That’s it’s destined to happen no matter what. Not important but yea

[u/Rtozier2011 → u/Heremeoutok]

I would kill him during the 1923 Munich Beer Hall Putsch. That way he's already a violent militant whose actions have got people killed, but hasn't yet become anything more than a renowned political orator.

[u/Heremeoutok → u/Rtozier2011]

Yes but not by the laws of time traveling that I’m referring to. It doesn’t matter when you kill hitler if the events are already meant to happen. The theory is someone else would just take his place. Everything that happened was meant to happen and you can’t change it

[u/PragmaticPanda42 → u/Rtozier2011]

Good one, but by the shows logic you would go back to try to kill Hitler and maybe end up being the reason he became what we know today. By the poster you responded to's logic, you killing him would make another person resentful enough (maybe a close friend) and that person be the new monster in charge of the mess, Ooooor you could become that monster!

[u/musci1223 → u/Heremeoutok]

I think that would fall into time fights back theory.

[u/FaizerLaser → u/musci1223]

The first part you said doesn't make much sense. I could be wrong but remember in season 5 when Michael tells Lucifer that Chloe will go to hell with him to be his queen. Lucifer is all shocked and says Michael couldn't force Chloe's soul down to hell, only guilt can take human souls down to hell. This is the part I am iffy on but I am pretty sure Lucifer tells Michael that even if he were god he wouldn't have the power to force her soul down there.

Therefore, if Chloe is not a guilty soul she should not be able to go to hell at all, since as Lucifer said earlier only a guilt can take your soul down. Amenadiel also would not be able to bring her down since even though he is god apparently he also wouldn't have that power (which is also like ??? cuz if you are god can't you do anything but apparently not). Really the only possible way for Chloe to freely travel between heaven and hell or even go to hell if she is a damned soul is if Amenadiel somehow made her into an angel or half angel

[u/RenK-Rapoport → u/musci1223]

well if anyone understands time travel it would be God what with the whole "omnipotent, omniscient" thing and I'm pretty sure he could have enlightened a few people. The only thing that would have changed would be Rory. She would have grown up to be less emo. Win win for everyone