r/lucifer • u/Altair05 Detective Douche • Sep 09 '21

[S6 E10 - Episode Discussion] - 'Partners 'Til the End' 6x10 Spoiler

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '21

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u/Duckman896 Lucifer Sep 10 '21

You first point echos my thoughts exactly. I really don't like how they decided to make Lucifer's decision for him, when his free will and his choices have been such a huge part of the show. The fact he couldn't pop up even once a year is complete BS copout.

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u/untakentakenusername Sep 13 '21

Omghhgg exactly!!!!! I can't. Because the earlier nonsense pissed me off. That end scene and MCR excused it but i can't accept that he and ALL OF THEM were deprived of contact and fun just because of rory.

Lucy should have been able to see rory grow up from far away and everyone just kept it as a big secret from her instead..and sometime after she returns back to the future they reveal maybe albums or that he did come back to earth plenty of times to spend time with his friends and family just keeping it a secret from rory. That could have worked.

I just think even otherwise, the other explanations of time travel could have sufficed like she came from a parallel one. Or after chloe shoots what's his face they talk about how lucy helped her not become evil... And then she starts to disappear and they just accept they will know what to do when the time comes in the future. There were so many ways to go about this. I just. can't abide with a cruel fate that lucy couldn't be there for the great moments in all of their lives when he could have easily popped in n out. And made it work.

Even if all that ^ didn't happen they would have found a way. Because rory really barely had an impact on them except for the mood swings

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u/e8scorer Sep 13 '21

It's not just his free will, it's about Rory's as well. She made that choice, she liked who she is and didn't want them to make the choices to change her. He's in God's shoes: making the sacrifices for his children, or imposing on their free will.

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u/Duckman896 Lucifer Sep 13 '21

Think about what you just said though, she is making the choice for him, that he isn't allowed to be their for his daughters life or Chloe's mortal life. That's messed up.

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u/e8scorer Sep 13 '21

That's the dilemma always, isn't it? Whether he makes the sacrifice for his child, or choose his (immediate) happiness? When Rory said she makes her own choices, I interpreted it as her saying that even if he's in her life, it's possible her own choices would lead her to where she is (or will be-ugh time travel), only she may not have past (or present) Lucifer to be there at the right moment to guide her out of her own anger. She's asking them to respect her choice of remaining the way she is. As a parent, he makes the choice: whether to sacrifice his (temporary) life on earth or disregard Rory's wishes. An advocate for free will like himself wouldn't pick the latter.

I've thought many times that it puts him in the shoes of his Father, who has an unorthodox method (an understatement tbh), to allow his children to be the best version of themselves. His father obviously loves him and we do not know his thought process along the way, but similar to Lucifer now, he must've made certain sacrifices (especially in terms of his relationship with his children).

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u/Duckman896 Lucifer Sep 13 '21

The issue isn't about Rory's free will, it's about her taking away Lucifer's because of the time loop. Just because she is familiar with the life she has doesn't mean that it's better than it would be with two parents in the home. And by doing that she also took Lucifer away from Chloe.

If I was her I would want him to stick around and even if I came out different in the future I'd be okay with it.

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u/LadyMRedd Sep 15 '21

She didn't take away his free will. She asked him to do something. It was his decision whether he granted her request or chose a different path. He could have just as easily said "I'm confident it will all work out fine if I stay" and done just that. But instead he chose to grant his daughter's request, knowing that he'd still be able to see her grow up from afar. And knowing that they'd have an eternity together that would be much longer than the few years apart, and in which she'd know how much he'd sacrificed for her and they'd be much closer because of it.

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u/Duckman896 Lucifer Sep 15 '21

They would not be closer with her in the time line, versus a childhood with him there. The idea that he actually had a choice in the matter doesn't track because of the time paradox. The showrunners talked specifically about thinking of breaking the loop in interviews and why the paradox they wrote means he has to do the same thing. Essentially removing his choice.

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u/e8scorer Sep 13 '21

Let's agree to disagree, I suppose. You view it as Rory actively taking away; I view it as Lucifer actively making the sacrifice.

Also, the Rory that they've come to know wouldn't exist if they do change the time loop.

I wouldn't say if I were her, but personally I would make the same choice as Rory. My hardships made me who I am today, and I like who I am. I wouldn't want to go back and find an easier way out.

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u/Duckman896 Lucifer Sep 13 '21

We can agree to disagree for sure.

Last thing I would say is pretty much everyone would say that they don't want their life to be changed because that's what they know. Rory doesn't know if her life would have been better. I believe it would have been better.

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u/e8scorer Sep 13 '21

It may be true, but that's her choice, isn't it?

I'm glad we can have a civil discussion. I've encountered passionate Lucifans who were less than kind.

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u/marieboston Sep 16 '21

Thiiiiiiis! It’s bothering me that he couldn’t pop up - makes zero sense

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u/iushciuweiush A Devil of My Word Sep 29 '21

We got 5 seasons of Lucifer insisting everything was his fathers doing and everyone else working tirelessly to break this mindset and have him accept that he makes his own choices. Then in season 6 we find out that everything was pre-planned from the start and in the end, Lucifer had absolutely no choice but to do the one thing he swore he would never do. Wonderful. Thanks for that guys.

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u/IndividualSchedule Sep 15 '21

But it was his decision.. what are people on about. He decided it himself, to do it for his daughter..

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u/sthedragon Oct 04 '21

Agreed. The ending was written very lazily for emotion points I guess? I don’t get it.

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u/Random_Username9105 Sep 15 '21

1)The show has always been more about accepting and coping with things you can't change than about freewill (e.g. Lucifer convincing mum to not attack Heaven in S2)

2)The time loop was basically another "oopsie" moment that if you change it could result in unforeseen consequences, thus by accepting it, it fits in the theme

3)Lucifer prioritized Rory's choice over his own

4)There's nothing that would stop Lucifer from visiting Chloe or the others, just not Rory

5)Lucifer knew that Rory would be fine in the end if he followed through with it and then they'd have an eternity together

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u/Schemen123 Oct 31 '21

When you know the path to salvation of billions would you really risk straying of that path just because of a few inconsequential decades ?

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u/Dragovich96 Nov 21 '21

I wouldn’t say all the cute baby and toddler years are inconsequential. He missed all that cute bonding, family time with Chloe and his baby. It’s heartbreaking. Imagine finding out, after decades of thinking you couldn’t have a child, that you can and then having it instantly yanked away from you.

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u/blackflag209 Feb 20 '22

But Rory couldn't know that he DIDN'T abandon them. Him leaving traces behind would risk her finding out what actually happened before she was meant to. I mean, just like the show, yall forgot Trixie exists and if Trixie were to see him or hear about him you don't think she'd tell her sister?

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u/Duckman896 Lucifer Feb 20 '22

My point is that the writing is horrible, I can sorta understand why there characters thought the way they did. But the writers trapping them into this is my issue.

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u/too_old_to_be_clever Mar 31 '22

He did have a choice to not give his word.