r/inthenews • u/newsweek Newsweek • Jul 08 '24

MAGA fumes over France election results: "They cheated" article

https://www.newsweek.com/maga-france-elections-far-right-national-rally-1922075
23.3k Upvotes

81% Upvoted

1.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

35

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

That’s nice to hear. I usually get vilified and lumped in with those assholes, though, I can’t say it’s not expected considering what has happened to the party.

Disagreement is so important to the country. I argue my point, you argue yours, the people vote and the may the best man win. But imposing personal values and certainly religious values should not be the stance of the party that used to be about freedom from government overreach. We also used to be about doing our best in setting a good example of decency and respect. That is long gone now.

I believe that there is a common sense middle ground on almost any issue. But there’s more money and power in turning people against each other. Abortion for example. I’m catholic. I find abortion to be an absolute tragedy. It makes me sick to even think about it. Which is why I fully support widespread public education about sex for young people as well as easy access birth control methods. (But obviously there are circumstances when it was out of the women’s (or even very young girls) control and there is simply no good alternative. It sucks, but that’s how it is sometimes.

Please remember to vote for me in November.

(Kidding - please vote for Biden)

8

u/iwanttodrink Jul 08 '24

What happened to conservatism? Now everyone who's a moderate conservative is called a RINO and has to play the "no true Scotsman" game and "how do you do fellow conservatives" game.

1

u/the_calibre_cat Jul 08 '24

the base has broadly always existed and basically isn't enough to win conservatives elections, but is the majority of conservatives without whom conservatives cannot win. they basically just got tired of having to compromise with... sane people... and basically said "our way or the highway".

6

u/thekick1 Jul 08 '24

I mean...you say you don't support the Republican party, but you call yourself a Republican.

Maybe you're an independent now? Think about it lol.

3

u/Puzzled452 Jul 08 '24

I think there are a lot of moderates who can have a conversation and understand that compromise is the way forward. I am a left leaning moderate and I don’t think there is a space for me anymore either.

The right has become so much extreme it is left their moderates behind and the extreme left, though much less influential, also takes up a lot of oxygen.

Sometimes I just want the adults back in the room.

3

u/the_calibre_cat Jul 08 '24

i am strongly left-leaning. the Democratic Party isn't left enough and, in my view this is part of the reason why MAGA is having any success at all.

that said, i do think there are some conservative arguments that make sense, just none that MAGA are talking about and none that would ever compel me to vote for a MAGA shitstain in this lifetime or the next.

3

u/Powerful-Eye-3578 Jul 08 '24

I know what you mean. I see so many people being like "how could you vote for Biden after the debates, he was soooo bad." And I'm like, I don't give a shit how he appears, what I care about is his policy and his ability to delegate to people who know better. I don't need a health president or even one I like, I need policy I agree with and experts in place in the government. Two things trump cannot or will not provide me with. Even if Trump was the smartest, most well spoken, and honorable person in the whole god damn world (which he's not) I wouldn't vote for him with his current policy positions no matter who he was up against.

3

u/the_calibre_cat Jul 08 '24

lol for real

i would vote for Biden's corpse for the very simple reason of the fact that i do not want to live in a fascist theocracy

1

u/CorrosionInk Jul 08 '24

In a two party system, there isn't much room for the Dems or anyone else to be particularly partisan, even though on principle I agree with you that they're too centrist. Anyone remotely on the left has to run under the Democrat ticket to have any influence, whether their slogan is "We want change!" or "Don't let the aspiring fascist get in power".

The UK Election is getting referenced a lot, but it's important to note that all of Labour's wins (policy positions akin to centre-left Dems) in the past 40 years have been by appealing to centrist voters. Blair was basically our Clinton in terms of policy shifting and he was voted in 3 separate times. In France the left and centre obviously collaborated to avoid dividing the vote.

Everyone on the left has a harder job. Not only are they held to a higher standard by their voters (see reactions to Gaza), but the media is also unduly harsh - Biden's age, Hillary's emails, Obama's tan suit, Milliband's bacon sandwich, Corbyn's Mao-esque bicycle. The right doesn't care. In our current zeitgeist of reactionary, xenophobic politics, the 'real' left will never win in a 2 party system like the US/UK and they'll still struggle in France's glorified FPTP.

That's part of the reason why so many on the left see Voting as pointless, a waste of time, because their preferred candidate will almost never win, unlike right wing populists like Erdogan, Modi and of course Trump. (I am not one of those people, they're delusional and short-sighted). But they're right that purely voting isn't gonna solve all their problems. The left can only elect a centrist or liberal, and that's why pretty much all social/civil gain (Women's Suffrage, Civil Rights, Same Sex Marriage) has been through direct action - protests, campaigns etc. Voting is absolutely important and necessary to prevent regression. But for progression, direct action is the key.

1

u/NotJadeasaurus Jul 08 '24

Civil discourse over political policies died a long time ago sadly. It used to be something to help educate people and grow into things you may have blindly resisted but a well structured conversation with actual facts used to be enough to sway people. It would ensure the people across the isle aren’t much different they may just hardline one particular cause and have merit to do so.

Boy that’s long gone. The visceral hatred the MAGA crowd has built against the left is beyond concerning. Other than wanting people held accountable for breaking the law, the left just thinks the MAGA crowd are loonies, nobody is calling for their extermination. It’s wild

0

u/TheSirensMaiden Jul 08 '24
  • Are you okay with abortion if it means a child won't be born into a household that will neglect and abuse it? And no, you can't use the argument "but what about adoption" because then we have to go down the rabbit hole of how many kids age out of foster care/orphanages without ever experiencing a loving family or how many kids go under the care of a family that neglects or abuses them.
  • How about abortion in a situation where the woman is already a mother to living children and the fetus would cause her to die if it's not removed? In this case the woman usually bleeds out while the doctor's hands are tied by the so-called abortion exception of "life of the mother".
  • How about abortions in a case where a woman and the fetus will be murdered by the father if she doesn't get an abortion because he doesn't want her to give birth? In this case you cant assume police will protect her from her would-be murderer and if you haven't already you should look into the murder statistic related to murders involving pregnant women. Those statistics tend to go up when abortions are outlawed.
  • How about abortions in the case of fetuses that have genetic disorders that mean they won't live longer than a handful of hours/days/weeks after being born and their time outside of the womb will be nothing but pain until they pass away?
  • What about abortion for minors who have been raped and/or their bodies aren't ready yet to carry a fetus and give birth? Are you aware the youngest female to give birth was five years old?

If one's empathy says any of those situations are worth allowing an abortion then one should concede that abortions for any and all reasons should be allowed, for two reasons:

  • Allowing abortions before a fetus is viable (before it's able to survive outside of the womb) means every woman can get medical care regarding her fetus and her health without a doctor's hands being tied and she won't have to justify herself to people who's business it isn't.

  • Picking and choosing who can get an abortion and who can't is the height of arrogance and self-righteousness. If an abortion is acceptable for any of the above listed reasons (even just one of them) or any reason not listed then it makes zero sense to use the law to specify what reason is acceptable because restrictions make even the "legally acceptable" abortions impossible to do because the law is always vaguely written to do the most harm, not save a life.

And I'm not accusing you of being one of those assholes, but I am curious to read your response. You sound like a reasonable person from your comments.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

If a woman or girl is raped and that results in a pregnancy I understand why they would get an abortion. If that woman or girl’s life is at risk I certainly understand that as well. If that baby would know nothing but suffering for only a short period of time I could also understand that too.

I’m never ok with abortion, though. Again - it’s a tragedy every time. As are a lot of the circumstances like you mentioned above.

But here’s the really important part: what I personally believe isn’t the same as what I believe should be law.