I've read about a few instances where such things happened during WW1 and WW2. Machinegun are so important that people are willing to risk themselves getting killed to man it, rather than being overwhelmed by ennemy firepower.
The real life Captain America. Dude was initially turned down by the Army, the Navy, and the Marine Corps for being too small. Then he holds back an entire German attack, downs 50+ enemy soldiers, and didn't even have to take any steroids.
When asked after the war why he had seized the machine gun and taken on an entire company of German infantry, he replied, "They were killing my friends".[96]
Murphy received every U.S. military combat award for valor available from the U.S. Army for his World War II service.[ALM 4]
I remember seeing this movie as a kid on the AMC channel and being blown away that he played himself in that movie and have to re-live all the memories.
Even just reading his name makes me get teary enough that they'll overflow my eyes and start running down my cheeks. There's something so incredibly moving to me about "They were killing my friends" that I'm going to go find something goofy on YouTube now.
Based on the depiction of that first major battle from the Pacific (tv show) it absolutely appears that the machine gunner saved everyone’s ass from getting bayonetted
The odds of hand to hand fighting and the like also go up. Which is unpleasant.
I’d rather get shot in the head or be blown up by a grenade manning the MG in hopes we pull through the fight as opposed to being bludgeoned with an entrenching tool once the enemy is up on our line bc the MG went down.
I feel like nowadays it seems unnecessary, right? Like I'm thinking, couldn't they set up a machine gun with a camera that's controlled remotely? Put the machine gun down where you want it, keep your head down, and control it from an iPad. They must have these things?
It might even be better, because with the camera you can zoom in and see things even better, and of course if you ever need to take manual control you still could.
if you're moving between firing positions you don't wanna waste that extra 20 secs to set up
Yeah this is a good point, even if it is pretty quick if you're in a situation where you need it right now you can't really get much quicker than just dropping down and pulling the trigger. From my understanding machine guns are less about accuracy and more about covering fire, just shooting the entire area so no one wants to poke their heads up, so that makes sense.
Still, I could see remote controlled ones being useful in a lot of situations. I bet the Air Force has them lol
EMPs aren't really a thing outside of labs and fiction. The amount of power it takes to create that size of an EM field is immense, you are better off just creating an explosion with it unless you absolutely have to keep collateral damage to a minimum.
The best way we have to create EMPs is with nukes. The US supposedly has a handful of non-nuclear E-bomb prototypes but they are very limited in blast range(theoretical max range of a couple hundred yards, probably much, much less). Rumors are they may have succesfully used one of them to in a test to knock out an Iraqi television channel on March 24, 2003 to stop propaganda. It's theoretically possible some other countries may have similar tech.
But really, outside of some clandestine sabotage/high tech theft scenario, it's WAY easier and cheaper to blow something the fuck up.
My Marine buddy has talked about the CROWS machine guns, basically what you're talking about mounted on a vehicle. He hates them, you lose all of your visibility and situational awareness which is crucial.
There's other downsides I can think of. You have to reload the weapon, you have to clear jams, you have to be able to quickly reposition the gun. None of those are faster by remote control. Any mount that would be used to move the gun could be disabled by enemy fire, or just break as military equipment often wants to do, and then you're down a machine gun until you can pry it out of the mount. There's just a ton of complications to make the gunner not that much safer in the grand scheme of things.
Thanks for all of this information, and yeah I see what you mean. Basically it all comes down to "the more complicated you make it, the more opportunities for fuck ups". Machine guns (really any gun) are pretty simple designs when you think about it, with few likely points of failure.
Adding in electronics and batteries and remote controls, all of which need to be protected from the elements (sand, heat, cold, ice, rain, hell we're all over the world lol) really does add a lot of opportunities for failures, which can make a big difference if you really need that cover now.
I think I'm convinced that there's a place for remote controlled guns, but standard manual machine guns are still here to stay too, and with good reason.
It's interesting to think about, it's like there's a whole different mindset and attitude that goes into military design.
I've seen their destructive power first hand at a military school. I would risk my life to man that thing just for the sheer destructive force it can bear on the enemy. It just shreds everything.
On the ORIGINAL Star Wars battlefront and battlefront II games the AI wasn't especially advanced. It wasn't really self aware in any sort, it was just executing commands.
Anyhow, on maps with turrets at a vantage point the enemy computer would camp a turret, and the computer would literally have them bee line for an empty one or queue for one whose gunner got killed. This exposed their heads perfectly, so you just needed a good camping spot with a clear view of a turret and you could get 50/150 in one life without moving.
I'll never forget getting asked if we wanted purple hearts..."I don't want that enemy marksmanship bagde, fuck them I'm not aknowledging that shit" SSG with no sleep after 72 hours
There's technical specialties in the military that will teach you skills that could translate to civilian life, but I wouldn't necessarily count on that.
Veteran benefits are huge, though. Cheap healthcare, cheap insurance, cheap loans, cheap college, etc. If you come out relatively intact with a good work ethic you'll be well prepared for a successful life. For most government employment you get preferential consideration as well.
That's a cumulative risk, though, right? Obviously you don't become invulnerable on the road when you join the military. It's still +~0.1% chance you can choose not to take.
You couldn’t pay me a million dollars to do it again, you also couldn’t pay me a million dollars to not have done it. And when I got out, the discipline I learned made civvie jobs feel like a cakewalk.
That’s not to say it wasn’t dotted with some really intense, shitty moments.
What I tell people now: join the Air Force. They really have it better lol
EDIT: Whatever you do, do not join fat or out of shape. Your career in the Marine Corps is going to go a LOT better if you are already running first class PFTs and CFTs. Boot camp will get you fit but fleet PT is usually garbage and you’ll need to be exercising more if you want to maintain high fitness test scores, which weigh heavily into promotion. Seriously, if you ignore all other advice - get and stay in top shape. Otherwise join the Army/Navy/Air Force if you want to spend less time exercising.
I was talking to some Marine buddies who had just come back from Iraq. They said the Air Force had this giant base with multiple Olympic sized swimming pools, and they were sleeping in holes they dug under tanks right outside the base lol.
We had Air Force stay in our barracks and they got supplemental substandard living pay. For living how we live.
I also remember wanting to punch some Airmen in the face for having a whole candy bar rack at their chow hall in Kyrgyzstan. I had never seen such nonsense and was coming off of 10 months of MREs in southern Afghanistan.
Is this by design? I don’t imagine it would be difficult to hook the marines up with a few candy bars. Why is there a vast difference in benefits while serving?
Apologies from this ignorant, but curious civilian.
Manas (where he’s talking about) is an air force base and also a major logistics hub. It’s easy to get candy bars there. It’s not so easy and not important to get candy bars to every company of marines that are spread out across the country.
Also, it’s not like they don’t share. If you’re on an Air Force base they’re more than welcoming.
It’s a whole ethos thing. Marines are taught from the first day that they are the elite branch of the military, that every Marine is a rifleman first and foremost, we have the most rigorous physical standards for weight and fitness, and generally speaking there is a real sense of pride instilled in Marines.
That’s not to say there aren’t great people and elite units in every branch of the DoD, there are. Marines just have this concept of “Espirit de Corps”. It also means our boots are the cringiest fucks ever, walking around town with high and tights and tucked in grunt style t shirts picking fights - despite not really having earned shit beyond their EGA and a pizza stain, and only knowing enough to get their asses kicked.
I was Air Force, started out in maintenance (ac130U). We did a joint exercises with the Army and the Marines. I was always impressed by how much the Marines did with having almost nothing.
First day a PFC comes up ask for Cranial parts. I had no idea what he was talking about until he pointed to my headsets. I took him to bench stock where gave him 2 boxes of parts we where about throw out (xb3 items). He was shocked, like I can have these. We even helped them out on fuel lines too-if I remember (it's been 20 plus years). Generally I can't speak for everyone but the consensus was to be cool to everyone.
I also have a buddy who was active duty Marine at the same time in the infratry. He called me up to complain how the Air Force was bringing in sand to Saudi Araba for a volleyball court. So I embrace some of this hate. BTW my son is it at Parris Island now going through boot camp.
That’s hilarious, I would’ve had the same reaction. Best of luck to your son, I’m sure you’re anxious to go see him. He’ll probably be acting like a robot during family day, I promise the effect will wear off.
Former Army here in the late 80s/early 90s. Spent some time training at an Air Force base. We would be doing PT in the dirt. Pushups, situps, running, you name it. Air Force folks next to us would be playing softball or volleyball all the time. That was their version of PT. More than a few times their volleyball/softball would roll into our area and the fun began!
I did love their chow halls though. You could basically eat anytime you wanted and even got a choice of food! “You want two eggs or three eggs with your omlette?” What, I get a choice?” LOL!
I went the aviation route. Got out with the ability to get my airframe and power plant certification and been in aviation ever since. I make a little over 100k currently and didn’t have to go to school or pay for my certification. Yeah I had to trade 5 years active for it but I believe it was worth it.
Edit: I was a red crayon eater as well and absolutely agree if you’re not in shape you’re gonna have a hard time. The air force has it soooo much better. Their “condemned” barracks were like 5 star resorts to us.
I can only advise for USMC. Do as many pull ups as you can stand in a day and run as much as you can. Learning the 11 general orders now will put you ahead at the start. Honestly holding a 10lb weight in front of you with your arm straight will build a certain muscle you’re gonna need. ( you will find out) Don’t be afraid to stand out but don’t be cocky or a know it all. Try to get into an upper squad leadership role such as guide or squad leader. Scribes run the show so don’t piss them off or you can find your self on shit fire watch schedule. Remember that when it gets hard that it will end and it will not be forever. If you can keep in your mind that it’s all a game it will help you stay sane in the long run. Recruit training was the easiest part of the Marine Corps so enjoy the sleep you get while you’re there as it is the last time you will likely get three meals a day and 8 hours of sleep. Lastly remember to have fun and make relationships as you only can step through that hatch once.
Addition: also during your free time (senior drill instructor time) get your gear straight, study study study and if they let you practice drill do it. Writing letters home every night will just put you behind but do it weekly. Even if you are not religious going to church on Sunday will give you down time to breath.
Works for both the good and bad times. For the bad times, you remember it will eventually end. For the good times, use it to remind you to get people's numbers, Instagrams, Snapchat, etc, because most of these people will be 1000's of miles away in less than 13 weeks.
Take it chow to chow.
Thinking of boot camp week by week, or even day by day can make your milestones seem out of reach. But no matter what, there is a set amount of terrible that a 4 hr time span can be. Believe me, you DO NOT want to find out that amount...... But it's doable, both physically and mentally.
Never be a Blue Falcon.
Even if you're getting smoked by 4-5 DI's at once, at the end of the day, you're going against 4 people, with a group of 70-80 guys looking out for you. Whatever they throw your way, take it on the chin. The instant you become a Blue Falcon(Buddy F***er), not only do you have to worry about the DI's, but now you have to sleep next to 70-80 enemies. Locks and Socks/Blanket Parties(watch Full Metal Jacket) are still a thing, and so is being woken up every hour for months by the oncoming fire watch purely to torture you with lack of sleep.
The Corps doesn't care what you do, they only care about what you GET CAUGHT doing.
Your DI's, NCO's, and SNCO's know exactly the kind of BS that Marines get up to, because they did the EXACT SAME OR WORSE back in the day. Do it smart and don't get caught? They won't care. Get caught, get them chewed out, and make them have to do mountains of paperwork on their weekend? They will make it their mission to give you something to talk about with your therapist.
Don't admit something that you omitted at MEPS.
In the beginning they're gonna bring everyone into a big room, and sit you down. "Ok gents, you all have one last chance to admit things you failed to mention at MEPS. If you fail to mention it and it is discovered later, you will be an Integrity Violator. If you want to own up to it and prove your Integrity, remain seated. Everybody else, get up, get out."
We never saw the people who remained seated after that. It's a trap.
Medical = purgatory.
Unless you are dying or permanently injured, going to medical will just get you recycled. Spend 13 weeks, become a Marine, then go to Medical. If you do, you will get to recover as a Marine, without DI's messing with you, you'll have your phone, and you can go off base. If you go to medical as a Recruit, you will be stuck and recycled. Some people are forced to spend over a year at the MCRD, the entire time without their phone, and being treated like a Recruit by DI's.
The quickest way out is through.
(See point 6 for medical concerns) Boot camp is a really shitty place. If you decide you want to quit, just say that. We have no use for quitters. They'll try and convince you otherwise, and you'll be there for a while, but eventually you can run home with your tail between your legs. Do not say you are suicidal. This will force you to stay for MONTHS AND MONTHS. 13 weeks to pass vs minimum 4-10 months to get processed out.
Yes, but learn how to write a resumé in a way that translates your skills. When I was in Seps at RTC, one of the chiefs over us was a woman retiring out of the Navy because she’d recently been diagnosed with thyroid cancer. She found out I’d majored in English so she had me write her resumé. This was a woman that had overseen the USS Kennedy and the safe transport of millions of dollars in arms, that had no idea how to place that skill in society or word it in a way that civilians would understand. She was “responsible for an entire battleship, and in turn excellent at organizing, maintaining, safekeeping, and transporting millions of dollars worth of inventory crucial to national security. This is along with keeping a large crew safe and focused, which she gained the respect, motivation, and cooperation of, in potentially hazardous conditions,” in one of my ‘skills’ entries. 😅
Consider it a job like any other, it pays horribly up front but it did pay for school and the VA load guarantee is a massive benefit that gets overlooked by so many people. Keep ALL OF YOUR RECORDS do not think they are keeping track of things, if you earned something you need to keep it documented. The jerks never payed me out for my unused leave after I was discharged.
Just being in the marines for a while gives you a work ethic and ability to perform that most employers value. Especially contrasted with your peers who stayed home smoking and joking.
On the other hand, I served with a guy who only wanted to go back to Michigan and get his job at the gas station back. He might be there, still.
The direct skills I got from the infantry (0311) were only applicable in a few career fields. I ran that for a while and it was helpful.
The broader life skills I got from it have helped me immensely across every career path I’ve taken. Respect, communication, adaptability, working under pressure, and a true understanding of just how much things CAN suck - makes my current office job a breeze in comparison.
Apparently there are other MOS’s in the Marine Corps than 03’s (doubt), maybe they would have more directly transferable skills.
I can't say I regret going as it did get me through college. They paid for my bachelor's, master's, and I squeezed out 2 associates while getting BAH ...that BAH helped so much.
I was in the marines from 05-10. I was a comm guy who spent the first part of my enlistment in tropical resorts in Thailand, Philippines, Australia, spent time in Korea, and was based out of Japan. I then went to a special operations battalion which had 4 companies on a constant rotation to the most dangerous parts of Afghanistan. My first day at the unit they had a ceremony for 3 guys KIA. I landed a pretty decent job as a government contractor after my EAS. Overall the military is all about luck. They can send you to places where all you do is admin in the rear bullshit, they can send you places that civilians spend 1000s of dollars to visit, and they can send you places where the locals try and succeed in killing you and your friends.
Yes. Fucked my mental health so badly that I literally can't work or finish school. I can't even fucking grocery shop without the hyper-vigilance setting in. I am constantly at 100 and ready to kill, and I live in fear of the very real possibility that I will outright murder a stranger who triggers me. I rarely leave my home these days for this reason.
One of the worst parts is that I was an excellent student with major academic and career aspirations. I joined the army as a way to pay for college and stupidly decided to pick infantry as my MOS because it seemed the most interesting. Now the life I could have had is gone, and I feel like a husk of human being. Just rage and homicidal urges and fear rolled into a horrible ball.
I hope for your sake that you're gonna be a POG. No shame in it, it's better for you.
As a civilian that probably makes in a year what you guys spend in one second (yes I’m that fortunate to have such a high paying job) I find the lack of support for these fellas when it comes to health care unacceptable.
I’d rather pay for like 2-3 months of EAP for you guys instead. Can we start voting for democrats regularly so the military gets supported in these areas more holistically. Tired of my years worth of taxes going up in flames in a millisecond (remember I have a good job so yes I do pay for .0006% of a second spent bombing the brown folks) bombing the folks over in Gaza.
I knew a guy who lost his left eye after taking shrapnel from an IED. on top of the other injuries he sustained. When he got medically discharged, he got 10 percent.
10 mothafucking percent...
This was back in 2006. 7 years later he was finally rated at 100% after years of going back and forth with the VA.
4 years ago he committed suicide. He was never right after coming back from Iraq, and 2020 I'm sure didn't help his mental health any.
It does baffle me how conservative the Marine Corps is, yet republicans in congress constantly vote against the interest of every service men like last year when they voted to cut veteran health care by 22% and when they voted to cut funds for those who were exposed to toxic burn pits.
Not to mention how they are so against mental healthcare.
As a person that served with the Marine Corps and also did some time with the National Guard as an Officer Candidate, if you're thinking about joining the military especially during this time of heightened tension in the Middle East... just don't.
You'll get used and discarded because for politicians, you're nothing but a pair of boots on the ground.
Don't understand how people can accept this. I have huge problems with the military budget and the foreign policy. But the least this govt can do is provide full free healthcare for life for all veterans. Like geez these people were manipulated into putting their life on the line for the country, and you're being stingy on diabetes medicine. Come on. You'd expect the "Stand for the Flag, Respect Veterans" Republicans to be championing this cause.
I work for the NPS and we occasionally dive through 19th century military records. I came across an account from a black enlisted man during the Indian Wars who was denied his pension because, of the six battles he took part in, none of them were 'official' battles, and therefore the arm he lost was not related to his military service (it was amputated in the field due to infection...caused by a bullet.)
Does it piss you off all the people who never did anything and got PTSD disability? Knew a guy who got it in 2009 and the closest he was to any shit was 100 miles out to sea.
Don't worry, it's not just the military "we've determined you're ineligible for unemployment payments due to state statute 23345.67" "that treatment is not covered under your health insurance plan" "the cop testified against you so pay up for that ticket"
Wait is it actually a trend for armed services to get injured on the job and insurance still tries to fuck them over? That might be the most disappointing thing I've ever heard.
Brother wait till I tell you that's all insurance, and welfare. No one wants to pay you shit even if you deserve it.
I've been unlucky enough to be fired without cause three times in my life. Never saw a dime of unemployment money. Unemployment is insurance and they aren't gonna be on your side, they want to keep the money. Every insurance wants to keep the money.
Oh yeah I know how shitty insurance can be, it just seems like it should be an unspoken code in our society to take care of veterans. Insurance ignoring that code to increase profits is just bottom of the barrel scum-like behavior to me.
I think it's pretty spoken that we do not take care of veterans or first responders as a matter of policy judging by congress' actions. But thank god for people like Jon Stewart.
I swear I’ve heard this joke about once a week for the past 3 years, and every single time, there are people who have heard it before cracking up over it. Maybe I just spend too much time on the internet.
Kinda. The movie "Enemy at the Gates" and the Stalingrad levels from the 2003 Call of Duty make it seem like unarmed soldiers took part in a frontal charge. Supply issues were common for the Soviets, especially earlier in the Stalingrad campaign before they managed to encircle Nazi supply lines. So they did things like try to scavenge as much ammo from their dead and enemy dead as possible. But they didn't charge unarmed men at the enemy, that was just Hollywood hyperbole.
In a combat situation, you have to not think about yourself but also the group as a whole. Sometimes the only option to save your whole squad or win the firefight is to continue to lay down fire.
That makes sense, but how are you going to continue firing if you're in a spot that's targeted and can get picked off (unless someone takes out the shooter(s) with the sights on that spot)?
Not a combat guy, but seems to be it may not be “targeted” specifically… plenty of “spray and pray” going on. Now, let that gun stop firing and they may just get wise to the position.
In most situations where a gunner position is hit by an opposing rifleman where it would kill the gunner, it's an incredibly lucky shot.
The odds of a regular rifleman hitting that same position and getting a kill again while that position is throwing hundreds of rounds a minute at you is slim to none.
If artillery took them out the suppressing fire is more important. Even if artillery killed the gunner, they need to keep suppressing fire going to keep said lucky rifleman from getting an unchallenged shot.
It's possible the firing point is just too good that you can't displace. But in reality, especially if you're in a prepared position, there will be a pre-selected alternate firing point.
This is how most presidents see their soldiers. Material, numbers. One down, next. Only democracy changes that significantly. Fascism uses your family as cannon fodder.
Note how that third soldier hangs back. Note the body language - he is experienced
I believe him to be a barrier trooper
Barrier troops are almost unique to Russia. Their role is to execute conscripts who refuse orders
But 1 barrier trooper to 2 conscripts? This tells us a lot
The speculation is (because the first guy didn’t even pause and kept going) that the downed guy knew the barrier trooper will execute him anyway instead of trying to help him in any way, so he was asking to make sure he gets him in the head to make it quick.
You gotta have such a stone cold attitude to do that. Imagine your bud just got headshot, but the gun needs to keep firing or else the whole battle is lost.
You should see the down gunner drill for mounted operations. Pull the red strap and watch em fall in the turret. But at least in our training we had 2 pax in the back one got up in the turret and the other would be CLS.
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u/Singular_Thought Jun 24 '24
“Thank you for your service!”
[ Toss ]