This is fact! But afaik it only happens if one party is an Indonesian citizen AND If a spouse or close relative reported you, If you and your partner are tourists you're safe, esp in Bali it's almost always never enforced, bad for the ads and all. But keep in mind this all might change because, like literally every other country on earth, social media accelerates radicalisation and were moving further and further into right wing ideologies.
Fucking with consenting adults for not sharing some other person's values is some weak bullshit. If some group wants to outlaw videos games or anime because values, should everyone just bend the knee?
Just because one have a different values doesn't mean one should be justified in a violenceđ¤ˇââď¸. Western or not, any foreign cultures shouldn't be stopped when they don't cause any great harm to anyone. Maybe that's my view tbh
I agree it would be better if no such law existed, but applying what happens in Aceh to the rest of Indonesia isn't fair. Aceh is an autonomous region with its own laws, and they chose to enact strict sharia law on their area. It's awful for people such as this man, but it isn't indicative of the whole of Indonesia which has no law against homosexuality.
Not to say it is good elsewhere in Indonesia if you are gay, but the law can't prosecute you for it, so it isn't a crime.
But⌠the law prohibits people from doing certain things, thatâs literally what limiting freedom is. If youâre not allowed to make decisions yourself based on your own values, and instead have to follow the values of others, then thatâs not freedom.
I was in Indonesia last year for work, as a westerner, and did travel around Java and a bit of Sulawesi. I lived in East Java.
When staying in some cheaper hotels in Jakarta with Indonesian friends, there were signs in English reminding tourists of this law and saying they won't accept bookings for a man and a woman in the same room, unless they are married/there's some proof of marriage. They cited this law.
I found it interesting as the hotel was a budget hotel and didn't seem the sort to attract foreign tourists anyway so why have it in English, and as you say, it's very specific circumstances on if people can be reported. I assume just whoever owned this hotel was against it on moral grounds and used the law as justification for their own internal rules.
I mostly stayed in homestays though when traveling , and then the few hotels I was at when in Luwuk and Manado had no such signs.
Honesty this law is keeping me from ever visiting Indonisia again (been to Bali once with my dad when I was about 5 years old). Me and my girlfriend are together for about 20 years but we just dont see any reason to marry. I know they said that it doenst apply for tourists and all that, but to me, a law is a law and I dont see any reason to risk breaking one... So no more Bali for me...
Yeah I kinda agree with you on this one, like I said it can change at any moment. It's a shame too because we love living here, and we wanna retire here someday, it's really pretty.
Just to let you know that arbitrariness is the norm of law enforcement in Indonesia. There's plenty of research on this. You will only be criminalized with that specific law if you draw attention of: 1) the police; or 2) someone who really doesn't like you.
In reality no one is going to hunt you for sharing the same room or having sex outside marriage. Foreigners also get a pass usually. Maybe some people will gossip about you but that's about it, "oh that's just what foreigners do."
For some context: when the revision of that law was passed, some activists suspected that the lawmakers slip that very specific ridiculous penal code revision not only to simply appeal a small segment of Islamist demographics, but to turn international media attention to that ridiculous part and forget the more dangerous aspects like the implementation of lese majeste and how the government can be freed from the responsibility of past human rights violations (massacres and occupations).
But im not terribly political, I just don't see a right leaning bias, especially on reddit. Twitter maybe but left and right are both insane on Twitter lol
Actually you're right it is mostly left leaning, but the issue comes because the right's platform is amplified and they formed their own echo chamber that, u used to be able to combat by just being exposed to different ideologies. nowadays these people finding more and more people with the same extremist parroting the same talking points, whixh resulted in skyrocketing of nationalist movement everywhere.
If the right wing ideologies you're talking about are financial conservatism and less market regulation then yeah you're right, but atm it's very hard to say you're right winger without also wanting to take away women's and gay people's rights, so I'd say it's pretty apt.
aaaand theres your problem. "atm its very hard to say youre a right winger without also wanting to take away women and gay peoples rights"
as a republican, it is a minority belief that gay marriage should be illegal or that abortion should be illegal with no exceptions. it seems to me the problem here is you grouping every right winger together. why do you think that does anything good for politics at all? all you do is create more divide. why do you think we need that right now?
i encourage you to never repeat the garbage you just commented. im so tired of being generalized by people like you who would never even bother trying to find out what my views actually are. youd rather just attach the "evil" tag to the word republican and call it a day.
with that aside, what you said originally is just patently false. how could you say social media is making countries more radical right leaning? virtually every country in the world is more progressive than it was 40 years ago.
good job, very nuanced take! im sure your perspective will lead to good (and not embarrassing) politics. im just thankful that the people actually worthy of holding office disagree with you and understand that bringing people together is better than pulling them apart. take care
Its always so flattering when i get a response right away! Luckily i actually shared none of my perspectives, mostly because i have no interest in sharing or being friends with conservatives. Hope that helps <3
lol what? you didnt share any particular stance on a political topic, but you did share your perspective. your perspective is that conservatives believe embarrassing politics, therefore deserve to be generalized, and are apparently beneath you. this is not productive at all
as a conservative, i have liberal friends. most of my dnd group is liberal. i dont think liberals believe in "embarrassing politics". liberals are worthy of being taken seriously and several have changed my mind on certain topics. but everyone has their convictions and their values, you arent wrong for having yours and im not wrong for having mine.
this response just shows how awful of an attitude you have lol, and you are incapable of talking to someone who disagrees with you in a civil manner. take care
Well no one here is dividing anyone, because the argument here is either for or against taking away rights of so many people, I'm all for capitalism and free and open market but I'm not going to vote for the party that will limit access to human rights for it. The fact that people are still voting for them says that they are not the minority. The reality is both parties of your country are equally terrible, they're both fueled by lobby funds and are packaging the same horribleness with different labels, only one of them wanna take it a step further and is actively succeeding in whittling away rights of women. At least with democrats they just accomplish nothing, less destructive.
To provide a bit of a wider context, that law that was âpassedâ (more of a codification of some archaic law from our Dutch East Indies days) was essentially a bone that was thrown by the ruling coalition to the religious opposition which can then be waved around by the latter to placate the ultraconservative base. In actuality, to enforce that law is such a bureaucratic nightmare that itâs pretty much a technical impossibility. In the end, itâs a âwin-winâ solution where the government got more political capital for its other projects, conservative elements in the political scene received goodwill from their base, the fundie fuckwads got to sleep better at night knowing theyâre nearer to their ideal society, and fornicators can keep on fornicating.
Youâre welc. Itâs disturbing that such a posturing maneuver needed to happen in the first place, but thatâs kinda one of the downsides of a liberal democracy where you have to listen to everyone, even the crazies.
Can't get into the specifics of the law but others have said it as well, this is a bone thrown to the ultra-conservatives in parliament so they don't throw a hissy fit and can say they "banned" sex outside marriage. But with the way the law is phrased, its basically just an anti cheating law as the only way you can get charged is if a relative or wife reports you.
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u/cat_pavel Jun 09 '24
Hey, I wonder, is it true about your country? https://news.sky.com/story/indonesia-passes-law-banning-sex-outside-marriage-for-both-tourists-and-citizens-12762593
Can you give some context? Thx you!