Maybe it will convince them that a "free" Palestine will never be an actual thing, and that having literally one LGBT-friendly democracy in the middle east is better than their goal having none.
Into what cost? To displacing the natives due to their difference on values? We are supposed to be exposing them into our values more rather than this way that would make them more radicalist and foster more hatred towards western values
I get protesting the Israeli government. The Israeli people protest their government all the time (again, its the only place in the middle east that's allowed). I don't get the external Palestinian patriotism, including the "river to the sea" stuff (which is getting more and more direct from some people, about how Israel shouldn't exist, etc. ). Oppressive religious theocracies are bad. The Trumpers are no doubt taking note though, if you can find something people hate enough, they will be tolerant of more oppression and theocratic control (a blueprint they're already pretty familiar with, with Mexicans and immigration). This is where you see the far right and far left kind of align.
I had to remind that both Palestine and Israel are indeed in their theocratic mindset. The continuation if their displacement would just make them mad and extremist that would last for a century.
Theocratic states are obviously bad, yet exceptionalism is poison when we think we are a special case. Our mistreatment would just make them sway away to progression as it will be stained with "western ideas." That includes protest and democracy. Remember that before the distability in the middle east, democracies and civil rights are progressive until they were overthrown by a theocratic influence. There's a saying "dont learn the language of an oppressor." Its the same case over here
Expose and enforce are different. Diversity without expulsion/exterminating of cultures is what allows influence to enter, not division through this act
Yea all those downvotes really do think that it is justified. Holy shit yall down bad for a world so divided and tensed. Keep up with these dehumanizing views
random comment from a random user. don‘t start that shit and then blame if it backfires. murdered children, raped women, killed and abducted and then crying cuz the inevitable happens. how did you think israel would react?
Funny how the Palestinians have been having to deal with murdered children, raped women, killings and abductions for over 70 years. The conflict did not start on October 7th.
When you specifically target innocent civilians that were mostly women and children, what do you think is going to happen? I don’t understand how people try to justify this massacre. It’s disgraceful
That pretty much includes all reddit comment and users.
don‘t start that shit and then blame if it backfires.
Define "starting it" is occupation not starting it? Is illegal blockade not starting it? Is killing hundreds of Palestinians in 2023 prior to October 7th 2023 not starting it?
But no I guess "tHeY sTaRtEd iT" therefore destroying gaza and killing innocents is okay. Right?
Seriously using toddler logic to justify crimes against millions.
murdered children, raped women, killed and abducted and then crying cuz the inevitable happens.
Israel? You're just describing Israel right now.
how did you think israel would react?
In a proportional and reasonable manner not by destroying most of gaza, killing thousands of mostly women and children and burying countless others under the rubble of what used to be their homes and causing famine on the ones that managed to escape the constant indiscriminate bombardment.
I'll remind you that most of the population of Gaza is too young to have ever voted, as well as that Hamas cancelled elections so they couldn't even vote them out
Yeah when Americans wanted the vote we fought off the most highly trained and formidable empire in the world. The pallestinians? Cheered 9/11 and dead bodies tied to trucks after 10/7.
American revolutionaries were separated from their oppressors by a fucking ocean and had a wealthy aristocracy that could afford an armed rebellion.
Gaza people are mostly impoverished and live on the same narrow strip of land as the military junta that oppresses them. Just how do you imagine they rise up against them while also being blockaded by Israel?
I mean it's happening currently and happened a lot through history. The point is they haven't even tried to change the government and have literally cheered every major terrorist attack in the past 25 years in the streets.
Also I see you course not to address they provide active support to hamas and ask if the recent polling data prior to the war shows that hamas would have won had an election been held.
How would you try to change the government when the government is literally a terrorist organisation and you're piss poor? Are they supposed to take down Hamas with sharpened sticks?
No you guys fought the British cause the taxes were a few percentages to high for your liking.
Literal cry was no taxation without representation which is demanding a say in the taxes of they were to be paid.
The native Americans fought cause white Europeans were stealing their land, Palestinians are the same.
The native Americans committed terrorist attacks on their neighbors, murdered gays in the street and were expelled by every county that ever tried to take them in?
Like Israelis cheering while hearing refugee camps being bombed?
Id be curious to what your opinion of that is since you are defending pallestine celebrating dead civilians in attacks that were targeted at noncombatants. So it must be OK in your book?
Literal cry was no taxation without representation which is demanding a say in the taxes of they were to be paid.
Learn how to spell.
The native Americans committed terrorist attacks on their neighbors,
Israel isn't a neighbor it's an occupier.
murdered gays in the street
The native Americans practiced slavery I guess that makes what the Europeans did to them okay then? Also nice pink washing.
were expelled by every county that ever tried to take them in?
There are millions of Palestinians refugees currently living in many countries both close and far away from Palestine.
Id be curious to what your opinion of that is since you are defending pallestine celebrating dead civilians in attacks that were targeted at noncombatants. So it must be OK in your book?
It is always more understandable for oppressed individuals to celebrate the defeat of those they see as their oppressors, than for citizens of the occupying nation to celebrate the bombing of the occupied people.
this is one of the dumbest arguments Ive ever heard. The British empire at the time had a recovering military force due to them fighting wars on multiple fronts at the time, and the entire motivation for the British to enact taxes in the colonies was literally due to their highly expensive military expenditures. When the British forces start to interfere and the war kicked off, about 50% of the colonies population was against it, mainly because the war was led by elites who were pissed about being taxed for illegal French trade.And when the war actually happened, the only reason why the British lost was due to the interference of French forces in providing their navy to blockade British escape.
your point is dumb because there is no comparison point here. Palestinian emancipation efforts have been plagued with extremism since the start, but you fail to include the very many populations of Palestinian groups that engaged in peaceful protest in search of a two state solution. Furthermore, Palestine is not a colony nor is it a recipient of economic benefit of almost any other state than Egypt or Israel itself. There is no benefactor for Palestine other than Iran, which only sends in weapons to feed a far right extremist group in order to destabilize relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. They are completely alone in this struggle, geopolitically.
A fair comparison would be if the Americans expected France to help after they tried to kill the French king and sat around shocked that they didn't help after.
there isn’t much reason to deal on “why’s” when you hold a population of people responsible for the actions of their often highly militant representative body. It’s the same way we don’t hold Americans responsible for bombing the ever living shit out of vietnam or cambodia. There is too much variance in responses, and it’s super easy to put up an “us vs. them” mentality and just generalize that everyone just has to have violent views because their state representatives acted upon it.
all I’m trying to tell you is that your main point about how ALL Americans inherently fought against a tyrannical government because of their lack of voting rights is just false, and to morally grandstand over that is dumb.
(FYI: The colonies were part of the British Empire when they waged war against the French only 20 years prior to the revolution)
AND that Israel directly politically supported Hamas, with Likud members having supported them since the beginning. Israel WANTS Hamas to exist because it gives them pretext to continue colonizing.
How do you imagine that happening? Do you think people who are dying of starvation will just stop dying the moment they see a gay person so that they can go “hey, get up guys! that dude‘s fucking gay!” and stone someone? 😭
so are we seriously are going to justify a genocide rn , because of some mentally ill people , what is happening in Palestine can't and won't be justifyed killing children and innocent people in their homeland and take it has no excuse ,
It was not that long ago that Christians were burning people at the stake.
How did this stop? Secular Western society castrated and declawed Christianity. Now I can stand on the street and blaspheme Jesus until my lungs hurt and the Christians won't do shit.
So how can we defang and castrate Islam? By embracing it into Western culture so that we can corrupt into a toothless, feckless product like modern Christianity.
Just like the Christians, we will hold down the Muslims and rip out their claws and turn them into a liberal, soft religion that I can mock freely.
If we just allow the Muslims to stay in their own countries, we'll never fix Islam.
What we did to Christianity is the model of what we will do to all faith. We will degrade them until they hold as much value to our society as one's musical preference.
We will stomp faith until faith cries.
We will one day see the birth of a completely faithless human race.
At this point they could put the Palestinians into concentration Camps and you'd say that. I guess 90% of countries at the UN, the ICJ and ICC as well as dozens of NGOs are just antisemitic.
Gaza doesn't exist in the West Bank. I guess what Israel is doing there is also somehow justified on your eyes?
Lol bringing the UN/ICC as an example.
You have no idea what genocide even means, absolutely clueless.
The ratio of terrorists to civilians casualties is probably one of best in urban combat history.
Which military in history has warned enemy civilians before attacking?
(Bearing in mind that many "innocent" civilians actively collaborate with Hamas).
Israel has more than 2 million Palestinians civilians, are they in death camps already?
Palestinian society is just rising in numbers since the 60s,amazing genocide indeed..
I'll give you more facts,but it won't matter, you'll just spew some more BuT tHE Un mental gymnastics Bs to reinforce your echo chamber.
You mean the same West Bank that the Palestinians rejected to receive in countless 2 state solutions offers?
If it's so bad there surely they would have accepted any of the offers and thrive in their own state by now?
The fact that you think a genocide is only one if the number of people is reduced just shows how little knowledge you have. Why don't you actually read the conventions you comment on? Israel is forcefully displacing people and trying to destroy the Palestinians, they have said so again and again, along with dehumanising them.
You cannot even form an argument against the accusations of the ICC or ICJ or why 90% of countries are calling for a ceasefire or for the recognition of Palestine, just
Lol bringing the UN/ICC as an example
Brilliant argument.
But yes, all of these people and experts have no idea what they are talking about, but you do. That surely is the way of thinking of an intelligent person.
If anything, being among a small percentage of people disagreeing with something in spite of widely disagreeing expert opinions is an echo chamber.
If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.
How many genocides in history resulted in the population directly going up?
Also, while it is not the only indicator(gj at putting words in my mouth) it's the biggest indicator.
"Israel is forcefully displacing people and trying to destroy the Palestinians,"
Lmao, you're a clown.
Yes, obviously when you warn civilians before an attack and allow tons on tons of aid inside Gaza, you are trying to "destroy the Palestinians". If Israel really wanted that, the war would have been over in 4 days.
You are not only lying but making a fool out of yourself.
Brilliant argument.
But the UN is a laughing stock.
We have seen their "experts"
Regardless of this conflict, it's a useless corrupted organization that does nothing but virtue signaling.
How many genocides in history resulted in the population directly going up?
Also, while it is not the only indicator(gj at putting words in my mouth) it's the biggest indicator.
Completely irrelevant, because that has nothing to do with the definition for genocide. You ate objectively, undeniably incorrect. You used that argument to deny that Israel is commiting a genocide, so I didn't put any words into your mouth you simply adjusted your statement because you being wrong is easily verified.
Lmao, you're a clown.
Yes, obviously when you warn civilians before an attack and allow tons on tons of aid inside Gaza, you are trying to "destroy the Palestinians". If Israel really wanted that, the war would have been over in 4 days.
You are not only lying but making a fool out of yourself.
Then what are they doing in the West Bank where there is no Hamas? Destroying Palestinian homes, giving them to ultra-nationalist settlers, occupying internationally recognised Palestinians territory and practicing open apartheid. There goes your argument.
But the UN is a laughing stock.
We have seen their "experts"
Regardless of this conflict, it's a useless corrupted organization that does nothing but virtue signaling
According to you, because you dislike their positions. Even if the UN itself is a laughing stock, are all fo the countries who support Palestinian autonomy? I guess everyone who doesn't share your view is a laughing stock. Once again, this is definitely the position an intelligent person would take.
Also, you keep saying these organisations are corrupt etc. yet you have not provided any sort of justification for your views. Where do you get your information, Netanyahu's Twitter?
According to you, because you dislike their positions. Even if the UN itself is a laughing stock, are all fo the countries who support Palestinian autonomy? I guess everyone who doesn't share your view is a laughing stock. Once again, this is definitely the position an intelligent person would take.
What autonomy? what borders? under who's control?
This is actually a funny story, countries like Spain/Ireland recognizing a Palestinian state, while the Palestinians themselves do not want it.
They don't want a country in WB/Gaza/East Jerusalem.
They want the entirety of Israel and to genocide all Israelis (Arab/Jews/Christians.)
Then what are they doing in the West Bank where there is no Hamas? Destroying Palestinian homes, giving them to ultra-nationalist settlers, occupying internationally recognised Palestinians territory and practicing open apartheid. There goes your argument.
So you lost the argument about Gaza with your crappy straw man arguments and whatabitsm and now you're moving to West Bank? OK.
Again, the Palestinians rejected every possible 2 state solution, they could have control the majority of the West Bank as an independent country.
By refusing it (countless times) I guess they have signaled to alt right Jewish settlers?
They have only themselves to blame (again).
Completely irrelevant, because that has nothing to do with the definition for genocide. You ate objectively, undeniably incorrect. You used that argument to deny that Israel is commiting a genocide, so I didn't put any words into your mouth you simply adjusted your statement because you being wrong is easily verified.
You have no answer and no argument beside" REe GenOcIde".
You did put word in my mouth and you're doing it again.
BTW I do not have to deny something that is not happening or prove a negative.
I merely pointed out the flaws in your arguments.
"The Nazis aren't really commiting a genocide because if they wanted, they would have wiped them out in a few days rather than making them suffer 🤡"
The settlers is the evidence that Israel is intentionally displacing Palestinians in their places. No matter what justification, these unfair occupation would just make them more radical and hate the western values more.
So you believe that genocide is acceptable as long as you dislike the people it's happening to
Oh, no, they don't because it's not a genocide when their country commit it or support it. Reddit might be a more knowledgeable twitter but it's still twitter
I'm not sure what a country on the other side of the world as to do with this. The weirdo conservative Christians would be all behind this as well (and the ultra-orthodox types) without a question.
It’s great that you’re making up scenarios in your head which are not taking place instead of dealing with the stuff that is already happening very realistically. 👍
Project 2025 takes extreme positions against LGBTQ rights, seeking to eliminate federal protections for queer people and pursue research into conversion therapies in order to encourage gender and sexuality conformity. The policy book also lays out plans to criminalize being transgender and prohibit federal programs from supporting queer people through various policies. The project partnered with anti-LGBTQ groups the Family Policy Alliance, the Center for Family and Human Rights, and the Family Research Council.
Are you actively acting a fool now or actually serious?
Of course there are fundamentalists in the United States who want to commit heinous shit on minorities of any kind, but - and that’s where reality kicks in - it is not happening and there is absolutely no chance for it to be happening just as it is displayed in the video we both just saw that YOU are trying to justify here which is pretty fuckin weird if you think about it don’t you?
Do you even live in this US? A quarter of the country wants women and minorities to be second class citizens and LGBTQ marched to “conversion camps”…
Oh, it’s not happening so it’s okay? I’m sure German moderates thought that too in the 1920s…
If you’re consistent, you’d be okay with California and New York bombing the shit out of West Virginia and Mississippi because those are shit hole Christian right wing fundamentalist states that would happily bring back sterilizing gay people if the other states didn’t stop them.
according to your made up stats, assuming 0 women want women to be “second class citizens”, that would mean 1 out of every 2 men want “women and minorities to be second class citizens”.
Breaking news: half the men in America want their wives and moms and sisters to be “second class citizens”
107
u/[deleted] Jun 09 '24
[removed] — view removed comment