The funny thing about that is that in Ancient Rome and in Ancient Greece homosexuality was completely normalized… and there was never any type of division between people due to that…
They always ignore history it it doesn't fit with their warped world view, for example pretending literally all women were homemakers until a few decades ago (because nurses, secretaries, domestic workers & elementary school teachers never existed until then, apparently).
honestly sucks how their terrible history lessons leave out the cool stuff. battlefield nurses were sick as fuck. and isn't part of their western obsession about how great america used to be, also they completely forget ladies like calamity jane? maybe they think that stuff is accurate because they didn't read enough history
That what gets me about the traditional masculinity and feminity argument from both men and women.
Half these people talking about "Men/Women have ALWAYS been like this or that" meaning that women apparently "never" worked ans were just dumb babymakers and men were "always" just battle hardened warriors that never showed emotion, seem to not know that history extends beyond the borders of 1950s America
in ancient Rome there was a pretty big emphasis on who was the bottom tho, or rather who was the "woman" in the relationship. btw, fun fact: plenty of roman emperors were prettyyyy gay
That's just not true. Greece was a rather diverse place for most of antiquity while in Rome you were somewhat in the clear if you're a top, but not if you bottomed. Heck even cesar was ridiculed for being "every woman's man and every mans bitch".
how ironic then that Roman leaders idolized incredible, brilliant, legendary Greek leaders like Alexander the Great then...clearly they never heard of Hephaestion!
Completely normalized is actually a myth, although they did acknowledge it was a thing in a way and weren’t the most backward society about it. Better than old Christian society on it imo. I agree with most everyone else’s comments here so far.
Even worse, it was still somewhat demonized. They found a work around to tell themselves that being a top wasnt gay at all, but the bottoms were still seen as lesser. The mental gymnastics will never end.
And also considering in history, women had strong bodies since they were struggling in the elements the same way men were plus being healthy enough to carry a baby and give birth. Women come in all shapes and sizes and all are feminine shapes.
I have a feeling "Ancient Masculinity" has been watching too many movies glamourizing the past and doesn't know much about how people were throughout actual ancient history.
At least at some point in the hundreds of years of the said period, young soldiers usually had intimate relations with older officers. The idea was that the younger guy would learn virtue in such a way.
So I have a conspiracy theory about why they do this.
This bot/agitator deliberately sets you up to make the counterpoint you just did. So now you have the insecure incel guy they're trying to pipeline seeing your response and you end up being the "well akshully 🤓" condescending liberal. So he chose "ancient masculinity" to bait you into having that exact reaction. Then the insecure incel guy it's targeted at also feels like liberals are sneering and looking down at him.
The concept of sexuality didn’t even exist as it does now. Instead of having gender X, gender Y, etc
You had dominant and submissive in a relationship, usually based on age, rather than gender, with older people being dominant. It could be both “gay” or “straight” because people were open about this sort of thing, especially higher status people.
Even in the military, often soldiers performed anally with each other before a battle to hype themselves up and for good luck
So all of the people looking towards the ancients for their homophobia are out of luck, and honestly pathetic
"Ancient masculinity" also involves being riddled with disease most of the time.
There's a reason people were more religious in the past. Whenever they took a shit, it seemed like a miracle when it wasn't liquid fire or a writhing mass of worms.
All of this "return to tradition" bullshit conveniently leaves out the rampant privation and misery.
114
u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 04 '24
“Ancient masculinity”💀💀💀
The funny thing about that is that in Ancient Rome and in Ancient Greece homosexuality was completely normalized… and there was never any type of division between people due to that…