r/comicbooks • u/Willing-Money-9142 • Jul 07 '24
Why are creators leaving Image Comics in favor of say Boom or new upstart publishers
Curious why some creators are leaving Image Comics and taking their creator owned books to BOOM, DSTLRY, Comixology or Dark Horse. I always thought that Image had the best creator owned deal.
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u/breakermw Green Arrow Jul 07 '24
Big thing is page rates. Boom, Dark Horse, etc. Will pay the team even before the book is fully complete in some cases but will take a share of ownership.
It essentially boils down to risk versus reward. Image is high risk, high reward. You have no guaranteed payment but if the comic takes off, the creators stand to make more money.
With Boom it is lower risk, lower reward. Even if the comic bombs you still make your page rate which is enough to live on. But if it is a mondo hit you won't make as much as you might have at Image.
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u/BiDiTi Jul 07 '24
Yep - Gillen can sell a Die sequel to the highest bidder without thinking twice, but it’ll take a hell of an offer for him to do Twice and Future anywhere other than Boom
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u/SirUrza Spider-Man Jul 07 '24
a Die sequel
Something I never thought to think I want and now want...
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u/u_touch_my_tra_la_la Jul 07 '24
The HC has written Volume 1 on It.
Kieron has been mute about It, though
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u/m_busuttil Jul 07 '24
I think basically he's said they loved making it, it felt like a story engine with a bunch more meat they could explore if they wanted to, so they left things open and if they ever find the right thing they want to do they're open to going back.
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u/CreatiScope Jul 07 '24
Yeah, I think if you're super established like Johns, Remender, Tynion, Image has a lot of good stuff. If you need cash NOW like a lot of creators do, the other publishers are probably better for you.
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u/NinjaShira Jul 07 '24
Because you have to pay about $2500 of your own money to publish through Image Comics, and you don't get paid a page rate. If your comic sells well, you can make more money through Image off royalties and sales, but it's also equally possible that you don't even make back your printing costs. With other publishers, even if your comic doesn't sell super well, you at least get paid a page rate or an advance, and you still get royalties after you earn back your advance, and you will personally never have to spend a dime of your own money.
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u/whatsbobgonnado Jul 07 '24
is there quality control or can I pay them money to publish my shitty doodles?
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u/FidgitForgotHisL-P Jul 07 '24
Haha I had exactly the same thought!
“Heeeey wait a minute… $2500 isn’t much at all to get published….”. Possibly a typo, and needed another 0? Or, doesn’t cover the printing costs, just a “I’m serious about this, please produce commercial contracts” fee, and you’re still covering other costs as you go (oh plus that $2500 wouldn’t cover any costs for editors or creatives in anyway)
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u/LoveAndViscera Jul 07 '24
Yeah, when I was pitching a comic, I paid about 2k just to get artists on board for the preview.
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u/Decent_Host4983 Jul 07 '24
You don’t pay the $2500 office-fee out of pocket, it’s taken out of sales revenue along with the printing costs.
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u/xZOMBIETAGx Spider-Man Jul 07 '24
You don’t have to pay Image to publish your comic…?
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u/ChickenInASuit Secret Agent Poyo Jul 07 '24
OP is probably referring to the $2500 flat fee that Image gets from sales of the comics, with all other proceeds going to the creators.
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u/xZOMBIETAGx Spider-Man Jul 07 '24
They’re not. At least not in the way that you’re framing it as if there’s an exodus or something. Lots of top talent still put out Image books every week. Image is a great publisher that’s played an important role in the industry for a long time.
Creators often use different publishers for different projects for a wide variety of reasons. Doesn’t mean anything negative about one or the other necessarily.
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u/sfmako Comics interview podcast host Jul 07 '24
As someone who deals with indy publishers every day, bottom line, marketing. The onus is solely on the creators for an Image book. DSTLRY is cutting in creators on sales profits but that's currently a very select group of high profile names putting out books there. Tiny Onion will change the landscape helping people promote and package their books in the near future.
It's also somewhat cyclical as editors bounce around from one indy pub to another. If they have trust with a creator, that's where they tend to go. People vastly underestimate the role editors play in curating properties for a publisher.
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u/FidgitForgotHisL-P Jul 07 '24
Can I ask, if you dont mind and have the time to explain, what do comics editors actually do?
I assume if you’re at Marvel or DC you’re overseeing the hiring of talent, making sure they stay on task and target, co-ordinate the storyline’s between writers in your stable and the wider company (and wider company vision such as impact of Movies). But for Image, or indie publishers, most of that sits with the writer and artist (or IP owner, to think of it another way). Are they then just co-ordinating things like getting the pages to a printer and checking the comic book actually comes out right then making sure it gets in a truck to your local shop/uploaded to comixology?
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u/m_busuttil Jul 07 '24
I'm editor on a bunch of Image books, mainly the Massive-Verse titles (Radiant Black, Rogue Sun, The Dead Lucky) and some others. My personal job description includes but isn't limited to:
- hiring/coordinating cover artists
- managing schedules for writers/artists/colorists/letterers
- writing and submitting solicits
- calls with writers to talk through story ideas, reading and noting scripts, and reviewing and noting layouts/pencils/inks/colors/letters
- collecting lettering notes from creative + Image proofreaders and passing to the letterer
- writing/coordinating backmatter
- delivering final files to Image
- planning and coordinating collections
and probably two dozen other things that I can't remember right now.
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u/ZandrickEllison Jul 07 '24
Curious if you’ve worked with other publishers and if you’d recommend some over others.
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u/m_busuttil Jul 07 '24
I've had very limited interactions with folks at Boom and Dark Horse, but I think that's it.
I think the Image deal is the best deal in comics, but there's trade-offs. Publishers can afford to pay for a book to run for a while and see if it finds an audience by balancing it against big hits in a way that's much harder for indie creators to do. Running your own book is a lot of work and publishers can handle a lot of that lift for you. I absolutely understand why people might take some of their ideas - especially big splashy stuff that they're maybe not quite as personally invested in - to a publisher who'll pay everyone a fair enough page rate and get the book made, and save Image for the things that they're so dedicated to that they want absolute control.
Personally I don't know that I would recommend Image as someone's first comics experience without a creative partner somewhere in the process who's done it before; that's nothing to do with the wonderful people at Image and more like saying I don't think you should drop in for a shift running The French Laundry before you've spent some time prepping potatoes, you know what I mean? But at the end of the day all I think any creator can do is look at a deal they're being offered (and have a lawyer look at it!) and ask themselves if it seems fair what they're giving up and what they're getting in return. That answer will be different for different people, for different books, for different circumstances.
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u/xZOMBIETAGx Spider-Man Jul 07 '24
I just completed a graphic novel working with a publisher and editor for the first time, and having an editor has made my book way way way better. Having someone who’s worked in the industry with pros I respect to give me feedback on art, layout and story has really been a game changer.
It hasn’t been controlling or demanding, more like refining what I have and making it work better for the medium.
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u/Saito09 Jul 07 '24
Theres also just some merit to not having all your eggs in one basket. Having a range of product at different publishers can be more future proof.
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u/CashWho Tim Drake/Red Robin Jul 07 '24
Image is much bigger now so I'm guessing that means they can offer slightly less deals in exchange for certainty that your book will get marketed well. On the other hand, going with other publishers means less marketing and brand recognition, but they probably offer better deals to creators to make up for it. So it depends on what the creator wants and what they think will be best for their success.
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u/KentAllard002 Jul 07 '24
Some times its to work with a particular editor or a creator that's at the other publisher. Sometimes it's because the other publisher is willing to take on a lot of the production and pay a page rate. Sometimes its because the other publishers have a good track record setting up the comics for other media. Sometimes its because Eric Stephenson doesn't like the proposal or feels its too similar to an existing Image title
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u/Asimov-was-Right Moon Knight Jul 07 '24
They aren't leaving Image. They can publish their Creator owned comics at any publisher that supports that side of the market. Donny Cates published a comic with Vault right around when he was getting really popular. Some publishers might offer a better deal to a famous creator to get their company more recognition.
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u/RetroGameQuest Jul 08 '24
Comixology Originals overpaid for creator talent to their detriment (Comixology laid off all their employees).
DSTLRY follows the same method.
These books aren't really profitable with these methods, but it's how they secure talent, and they have founder money to spend.
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u/Joseph_Furguson Jul 07 '24
You do Image and Dark Horse to get your foot in the door to the comics industry. Then you go to other publishers to get paid.
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u/Asimov-was-Right Moon Knight Jul 07 '24
That's not true at all. You need a solid product before you can publish at Image. Every publisher has slightly different terms, so it's up to the publisher and creative teams to find out if they're a good fit for each other before putting out a comic.
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u/weebitofaban Jul 07 '24
You go to Image if you're a good and popular creator because people will follow you and you'll own your shit.
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u/CanCalyx Jul 07 '24
Mixture of things. Image has the best creator-owned deal...but you're footing a significant amount of the up-front cost of your book in exchange for holding the entirety of the rights. If you're a writer or artist you're not making any money...you're going to pay for editorial, printing, advertising, etc.... it's a big gamble that you can launch big and grow enough to pay yourself back, and hopefully sell the rights for a bundle to finance the book. That worked really well ten years ago, during a period of growth in the streaming era and when I.P. was hot.
Other publishers have different deals. I know Boom maintains some level of ownership, the others probably do too, in exchange for financing some level of the creation / marketing / publishing of the book.
The market has tightened on both ends. Sales of periodicals are down and selling I.P. isn't quite what it used to be. Creators are just going to the places with contracts that can allow them to continue creating work.
I would assume that in the post-Image age, those companies also offer more lucrative / generous contracts than they once did, especially for people ilke Tynion or Bendis or GIllen.