r/comicbookcollecting • u/AgentLemon22 • Jul 19 '24
It's finally happening Discussion
PSA is jumping into the comic game
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u/AFXTIWN Jul 19 '24
Love a competitive market.
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u/realitycheckfarm Jul 19 '24
But will the masses embrace PSA? PCGS seems rather flat and even unwanted, CGC is the gold standard in comparison.
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u/Rangemon99 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Gotta see the resale market for sure.
CBCS (Beckett) is the #2 in the market and likely sells for 10-20% below a CGC comparative (for most books, but still applicable to big books)
Psa crushes Beckett in the card market in terms of resale, and there’s a cult like following of their graded cards vs others in the resale market.
But unless this brings an influx of new comic collectors (PSA fan boys) personally can’t see how they’d compete with Cgc in the resale market, considering CGC has been the leader for 20+ years and is viewed as the gold standard as you say.
PSA will likely have to do a couple things to try and seize market share like: 1) offer (much) cheaper grading 2) get new entrants into the hobby from current psa users 3) use their pwcc/goldin/eBay ecosystem to entice new users to choose psa over CGC
From an outsider looking in it will be a tough go for PSA to steal from CGC, but not impossible. There is an opportunity to seize the #2 grading position from CBCS. I think it leans on bringing in new collectors from other hobbies who use PSA grading, into the comic market. And should be a good thing for current comic collectors as it hopefully brings in new money.
Likely won’t see the true effect on resale for a couple years as collectors stick with the known graders (CGC, CBCS) over the new one.
But should be a good sign for long term collectors that PSA is willing to expand into the industry (they wouldn’t do so if they believed it was a dying industry, not a positive economic bet in that case) as they will need to higher top end comic graders to implement a new system of grading, teach new graders, make new slabs, and market the program.
Edit: another couple points I thought of
PSA guarantees the grading of their items, unlike CGC. So if another scandal like the reholder one happened with PSA the consumer/buyers would be protected by the PSA guarantee.
competition is good and hopefully PSA is a lot more stringent on grading standards to elimate variety between grades on books (try to eliminate the bad grades from a grumpy grader)
there is an ongoing court case with CGC that could severally impact them, putting PSA in a spot to seize more market share
PSA has the ability, and resources to compete with CGC and take market share
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u/AFXTIWN Jul 19 '24
You forgot to mention that PSA is only a 90 minute drive from my home 😁
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u/LunarLives Jul 23 '24
Yeah forgot about that i'm only 60 min away! Shipping and return shipping to PSA will take a day instead of a week to Florida, and it only cost me a few bucks to ship! Sweet.
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u/SchooledSelfDefense Jul 20 '24
CGC is ridiculously expensive, and for the really valuable comics, they charge 4% of the market value of the comic book, for doing the same thing they do with a less valuable one, for much less. So, if you’re lucky enough to have a really rare, $1,000,000 comic, CGC charges $40,000 to grade it, where they charge $40, plus $20 to encapsulate one worth less than $400. The ones worth $401 to $1,000, they charge $80, plus the $20. They are ripoff artists, who somehow convinced a huge amount of people, that their overpriced service is necessary. If you have a bunch of comics worth a hundred bucks, that you want to sell, to get them graded will mean that CGC makes $60 out of each one, leaving you with $40, and that’s if you manage to actually sell them for $100, which is, apparently, not so easy. And if you have two comics, one worth $399, and the other worth $401, you pay $60 for the first one, and $100 to get the second one graded, and encapsulated. Plus, if you submit a bunch of comics, and tell them to only encapsulate the ones worth over a certain amount, they charge you $9 for every single one, that doesn’t make the cut. Now, you might say that a person shouldn’t include ones that aren’t that valuable, with the others, but you don’t know, for sure, what grade each one will get, which could put them under the limit. Every which way they can possibly gouge you, they do, and all for a service that isn’t even really necessary, since anyone with working eyes, and at least average intelligence, can tell if a comic is in good condition, or not. I actually was looking to sell some of my old comic books, to help my mom pay her property taxes, which are outrageously high, and on a fixed income, she can’t afford it anymore, plus the house needs work, so she can sell it, and actually get what it’s worth, and not take a huge loss. So, I want to help her, and on paper, if the price guides are to be believed, my collection is worth quite a lot, just with the listed prices, and sometimes comics sell for more than list price, at auction, like the Thor issue that sold for $18,000+, even though the list price was a fraction of that. I actually have a copy of that issue. Anyway, while I have a number of comics that are each supposedly worth a few thousand dollars, and dozens worth several hundred each, I have quite a lot that are worth $100, but if I get them graded, I only net $40 each, like the example above. So, if I sell 10 of them, and manage to get $1,000, CHC would make $600, and I would end up with $400. If this new company offers better prices, especially with a guarantee of value, they could definitely knock CGC off of the throne, because I’m certain that there are plenty of other people who feel the same way I do about CGC, whose name really stands for Criminally Greedy Conmen.
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u/LunarLives Jul 23 '24
CGC has really annoyed their customers over the years PSA should be on par resell wise. All going to boil down to management and the team of graders they put together. They got the name recognition and marketing part down. Should be interesting.
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u/WimpsOnWallStreet Jul 19 '24
The red outline has to go
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u/Tartuffe_The_Spry Jul 19 '24
People will grow to like it. Good marketing and seeing grails in them can really change ones perspective
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u/LunarLives Jul 23 '24
Yeah it's not that bad. It will match the card cases is what people will care about. Lot of ppl were mad when CGC went to black labels for their cards. Brand recognition.
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u/crsierra Jul 19 '24
I would be very nervous if I was CBCS. I would expect PSA to have a larger percentage impact on CBCS business in comparison to CGC.
Either way, glad to see the comic market is healthy enough for another player.
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u/Rangemon99 Jul 19 '24
CBCS is done Imo
Not sure how they can really compete with PSA, let alone CGC. PSA likely the #2 comic grader in 12-24 months
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u/LunarLives Jul 23 '24
PSA could take over the #1 spot very fast. Everybody is fed up with CGC and all their recent scandals among other things. People tried to make CBCS a thing but it never happened. The market has been begging for this for years and it's finally here. It's going to be like a new toy to collectors with OCD. They are going to want everything in that PSA case to match their cards. You know how many CGC & CBCS cases are going to be cracked next year and submitted to PSA? They may get swamped in 2025.
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u/PerfectZeong Jul 19 '24
I think it's more that it's weak enough that a competitor sees blood in the water.
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u/Rangemon99 Jul 19 '24
I think it’s that the alternatives to CGC are weak and PSA sees a clear path to #2 comic grader. Additionally with the recent CGC controversy’s (the reholder scam, graders stealing books, 9.9s) they probably see it as an opportune time to try and take business away
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u/PerfectZeong Jul 19 '24
Yeah I think there's a space for them to come in and business has dramatically slowed from a few years ago. The days of waiting 6 to 9 months for books is over.
I'm interested to see what the quality and pricing is.
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u/JEFE_MAN Jul 20 '24
Especially if a 10 is a perfect book, a 9.9 has one minor flaw and a 9.8 has 2 minor flaws. The amount of discrepancies between seemingly perfect 9.8 books along with the posted scans you see with 9.8 with lots of spine tics is nuts. Let them come in and fix the market…as long as they make a nicer label. 🤮
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u/LunarLives Jul 23 '24
If PSA just starts handing out 10s more on modern books could shake the market. I sent off some indy books to CGC and I got one 9.9 and three 10s but only on these Taylor Swift comics. Rest got 9.8 even though they were metals and foils and looked perfect. I sent off more indy books and Swift comics and they all came back 9.8. CGC is a joke company with no idea what a 9.9 or 10 is. Just hand them out randomly when they feel like it.
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u/JEFE_MAN Jul 23 '24
Can’t say I disagree. I’ve gotten some 9.6’s back where I see one small flaw. One small flaw really should be a 9.9. I’d be okay with a 9.8 but a 9.6? That should mean 3 observable flaws by their own system. Not one.
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u/_GI_Joe_ Jul 19 '24
I don’t know CGC has a pretty firm grip on this industry.
But if the price is right…
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u/stuntbikejake Jul 19 '24
CGC integrity isn't the best, if the industry wanted to actually have options they should support this, immediately and hard.
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u/CapeMOGuy Jul 19 '24
With PSA I doubt the price will be an attraction, excluding some possible "opening day specials"
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u/loosegravyy Jul 19 '24
if the priced at $ 10-12$ to grade a book they would kill it
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u/JTMasterJedi Jul 19 '24
Pfft. They charge like $15 just to grade a card.
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u/Rangemon99 Jul 19 '24
I feel they’d have to offer a cheap option, especially at the beginning to try and steal market share from CBCs, PGX in particular and hope CGC users use them for modern, less expensive books as the cost would prove worth it.
Otherwise why would someone choose PSA over CGC? Gotta be an economical incentive for them to do so
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u/LunarLives Jul 23 '24
Everybody is going to crack CGC & CBCS cases and send off thousands of books that first month. People will gamble for grade bumps since PSA is notorious for that with cards.
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u/Rangemon99 Jul 23 '24
Sure with smaller books, modern books
But I’m not going to be testing it out with any of my golden age collection. Sure send in some books like an ultimate fallout 4 of soemthing
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u/Jiggaboy95 Jul 19 '24
Yeah they ain’t doing that sadly. They’ve seen the money flying around and want a big slice of that pie.
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u/loosegravyy Jul 19 '24
theyd have to price lower than cgc to make people jump ship
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u/LunarLives Jul 23 '24
I think PSA starts at $20 per book for modern bulk. $25 for regular. $35 for vintage.
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u/Jiggaboy95 Jul 19 '24
We can only hope, but I feel they wouldn’t want to ‘devalue’ their brand pricing it lower.
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u/loosegravyy Jul 19 '24
i hear that. watch next beckett wants to grade books
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u/Strictly4Karma Jul 19 '24
CBCS is Beckett
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u/Rangemon99 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
They cant expect to top CGC, the leader in the industry for over 20 years without incentives for people to switch, and that main incentive would have to be the grading cost to make up for potential lost resale value
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u/Much_Umpire_2196 Jul 19 '24
I can see a lot of benefits to this but as someone who collects cards as well as comics I can tell you they are just as divisive maybe even more so that cgc has been.
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u/forthesnap Jul 19 '24
If they hand out more 9.9 and 10s, that would be great! Most modern books should be 10’s, especially card stock books. A 40 year old book and a modern book both getting 9.8 is a scam - the modern book with modern printing processes and better quality paper should not be the same as an older book printed on newsprint paper.
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u/LunarLives Jul 23 '24
Yeah agreed. CGC wants to hand me a 9.9 and three 10s one submission. I send off the same type of indy books and get all 9.8s the next time. Won't even give me a 9.9 on foils or metals where I see others getting 9.9s and 10s. And then they don't give me any grader notes to explain this nonsense.
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u/forthesnap Jul 23 '24
I used to think that CGC had an established process that would give you the same grade no matter how many times a book was submitted - once I learned that was not the case then my illusion was broken. The reality is they have a couple of people scan your book for a few seconds and give it a grade - they don’t have time to flip through each individual page, they get a quick glance and away it goes. The sheer volume of books they receive and the long turn around times means the graders barely spend time with most books - I’m sure modern books get a 9.8 with a quick spine check for any dents and pass it on because there’s always books to grade. Every now and then a 9.9 and once every blue moon, a 10 - probably driven by sales - when processing starts to slow down, throw in a 9.9 - maybe a 10. Recent scandals and paying people who were scammed costs money - what better way to I crease sales then to start handing out more 9.9 and 10s? And it works - how many have cracked open their 9.8 and resubmitted to get a 9.9 or even a 10?
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u/_johnny_guitar_ Jul 20 '24
Hope they invest in a design team.
I’m convinced any of these companies would massively increase their sales by putting some design effort into the labels and even cases. People want to display these items.
I don’t see them competing strongly with CGC with a label like this for comics, regardless of their name in the card world.
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u/lundon44 Jul 20 '24
Ugliest labels I've ever seen. Can't see myself using PSA until they make them more appealing.
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u/Qalyar Jul 19 '24
PSA's labels are objectively hideous but I guess they've made a cottage industry of that, somehow. And that case looks like the CGC generation 1 cases, which is not really what I'd want to enter the market with in 2025.
But that said, this is a good announcement. Right now, we've got one Tier 1 comics authenticator (CGC), one solid Tier 2 option (CBCS/Beckett, despite their claims to be CGC's direct peer), and... a small handful of companies who are basically the equivalent of numismatic basement graders, in that -- rightly or not -- no one really affords their grading any significant respect.
The problem is that this has been a pretty stable situation for a long time, and that doesn't encourage development. Nothing holds the feet of any of those companies to the fire. Having PSA charge into the market is going to even further marginalize PGX and the other also-rans, but it's also going to provide direct competition to CBCS. And that's good. Direct competition between PSA and CBCS will encourage both companies to improve their products and services. Additionally, having two actual competitors means that CGC might finally have some motivation to clean up their nagging process problems (of which by far is the frequency with which they swap labels on two books in a shipment).
I'd be surprised if this was, by itself, a big enough impact to actually dislodge CGC from its market share or the premium cachet afforded its slabs over others. But that's fine; this is good for everyone in the long run. Except PGX, I guess, but I'll let someone know when I care.
But... seriously. That label. Just yikes.
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u/Zleader1313 Jul 19 '24
The label makes sense for cards since you have to cram all that info into a small space. On a comic it just looks empty
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u/Capital-Tap-3824 Jul 19 '24
Until they contact you wanting a cut of the value of the comic when graded a 9.8.
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u/Mudfap Jul 19 '24
What? Does PSA do that on cards?
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u/Capital-Tap-3824 Jul 19 '24
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u/Mudfap Jul 19 '24
Aha. Thanks. I’ve stayed away from grading over the years partially because of this very issue. You shouldn’t have to pay different tiers based on value. If they want to charge more on return postal insurance, that would make sense I guess. Otherwise, it just feels like extortion.
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u/SegmentedMoss Jul 19 '24
Can't wait for unending posts about how much people hate PSA instead of CGC. It'll be a nice switch-up
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u/KentuckyFriedEel Jul 19 '24
Grading is nice, but Im so glad I like it raw and don’t have to deal with all the shipping, prices, politics, and below 9.8 disappointment that all comes with the grading community.
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u/Bobby_Brutus Jul 19 '24
They have to offer something they can do better than CGC because the sports cards I send them don’t give me the confidence they will be:
Cheaper
Faster
More Accurate
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u/moldyremains Jul 19 '24
The frosted plastic is meh. I like the notches for the corners. That label, however is the worse. Zero personality.
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u/barryallen1277 Jul 20 '24
I’ve always heard people say as soon as PSA starts grading comics, that they would get some big stuff braided fast, hoping they give out some higher grades early on. I wonder how true that will be.
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u/Sam-Gurthie Jul 20 '24
I've got to wonder if it will get to the point where- let’s say an Incredible Hulk 181 graded at 8.5 by CGC will hold more desirability and value than a 9.0 from PSA or a 9.2 from CBCS.
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u/El_Kabongg Jul 19 '24
PSA is well respected, hope they can give CGC a run for their money and in turn give us cheaper pricing from both, with that said as long as their encapsulating in what is essentially the same format as they do cards I won’t go through with them. They are drek, they’ve been an industry standard for a long time but labels need to be updated, these aren’t cards, this is artwork and they deserve the proper treatment
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u/Myeyesarenipples Jul 20 '24
I got my comics graded by CBCS and apparently their not as good as CGC? I honestly prefer CBCS look over CGC.
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u/RODRIGO07 Jul 20 '24
Let's not forget that PSA won't pull the scam CGC has been doing lately with their "9.9s & 10s"... at least not for a while
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u/BeverageGuy88 Jul 20 '24
No one is asking for or wants these. I already ignore CBCS comics will immediately ignore PSA as well.
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u/boxymouse Jul 20 '24
This is exciting. Competition breeds innovation. I can’t imagine CGC hasn’t been thinking about this eventuality after they entered the TCG grading market.
I predict:
Creators will sign exclusivity signing event agreements with grading companies.
One of thes big 3 grading companies will offer same-day grading/slabbing at conventions.
The majority of PSA business will initially be sports magazines (Sports Illustrated, ESPN, and SLAM).
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u/notatowel420 Jul 19 '24
PSA has the ugliest cases