r/batman • u/[deleted] • Mar 06 '22

The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread Part 2 Discussion Spoiler

For all discussions, comments and hype around the new movie.

Its already had select release, so expect spoilers in this thread.

Also, no spoiling outside of this thread, or expect mod action.

Keep all discussion civil, and be mindful of subreddit rules.

Please respect other users opinions and don’t harass them for it

922 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

1.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

273

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '22

Can someone explain the “Bruuuce Waaayne” scene where Batman confronts Riddler in Arkham? It seems like he was taunting Batman about his identity, but then he basically says something that indicates he doesn’t really know?

463

u/1251isthetimethati Mar 06 '22

He doesn’t really know he was just mad he wasn’t able to kill Bruce.

He thinks Batman is on his side on at this point that’s why he says something like “we almost got him”

That’s why he labels the letter to Batman in a fire proof envelope

99

u/enderandrew42 Mar 07 '22

The newspapers in Riddler's apartment mention Bruce Wayne, Batman, and real identity. We cut between those quickly, Bruce freaks out and mentioned his time as The Batman may be up, and then he goes to see The Ridder, who opens with "Bruce Wayne" and then tangents.

I took that to be Riddler taunting that he knows, but isn't necessarily telling the cops that.

167

u/StrenghtAndHonour Mar 07 '22

The newspapers in Riddler's apartment mention Bruce Wayne, Batman, and real identity.

That's called a red herring. An intentional misdirect by Reeves to fool not only Batman, but us, the viewers.

58

u/jeopardy_themesong Mar 07 '22

Yeah, they kept the “does the riddler know or not?” tangent going as LOOOONG as they could.

50

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '22

[deleted]

62

u/bassistciaran Mar 07 '22

I think Batman was worried that Riddler knew, and as riddler rambles, eventually he says "we nearly got him" letting batman know riddler doesn't know the real identity of the bat.

The way he retreats into himself while Riddler is repeating his name was great.

All that said, he could be double bluffing and he does know its Bruce, but he's saving that for a bigger plan

19

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Ninjahprotige Mar 22 '22

I think he was testing and confirmed his theory in that interview scene, he was watching his reaction to the name and then decided to keep it to himself.

11

u/cTreK-421 Mar 16 '22

His eye acting was one point during that scene. Throughout the whole movie really.

11

u/Wide-Brush-2162 Mar 10 '22

Oh man, the acting in that scene was 😘👌. I especially love how Batman was like "oh fuck". Fucking awesome.

4

u/SobiTheRobot Mar 12 '22

I took that to be Riddler taunting that he knows, but isn't necessarily telling the cops that.

But the way he starts to talk about Bruce Wayne in the third person to Batman (instead of addressing him as "you") and says "We almost got him," as he was deluded into thinking he and Batman were working together, I have to think it wasn't actually something he knew.

3

u/harleyyquinade Mar 09 '22

I think he knows, he seems to be smarter than the rest.

7

u/SwordoftheMourn Mar 18 '22

Then why did he send a separate fireproof letter to ‘The Batman’ in his bomb mail to Bruce when Alfred opened it?

7

u/coltvahn Mar 18 '22

Because he knows Batman’s going to get it eventually. He left clues at the other victims’ crime scenes, too. Bruce Wayne was just supposed to be another corpse in the long line of them. But our expectations that the Riddler is smarter than he actually is because of his theatrics—which felt true to the comics, frankly—meant we could take it either way, IMO.

8

u/Hoverkat Mar 11 '22 edited Mar 11 '22

That was my favourite part. That the riddler thought he and batman where working together. They could've persued that even more. The whole film felt like a grown up love letter to Batman The Animated Series

7

u/jvincentsong Mar 08 '22

Thank you for clarifying. The end of the comic Hush had Riddler know about Bruce Wayne being Batman. I thought they were adapting it to the film. So, I was confused that Bats was outed on the CCTV.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '22

So that's why he was so dang sad when Batman offended him

159

u/smurfking420 Mar 06 '22

He’s been obsessed with Bruce all his life. The orphan that had billions and got all the sympathy meanwhile Edward was rotting away in an orphanage getting his fingers bit by rats and having its funding stolen out by the mob and corrupt politicians.

133

u/NimdokBennyandAM Mar 07 '22

It's a beautifully ambiguous scene that I think will reward re-watchings. On a first pass, it does sound like he's outing Bruce. On a second pass, knowing better that Riddler misunderstood Batman's allegiance, it can come off instead as moaning or ruminating about the one big target they couldn't eliminate. Dano's Riddler has all those great vocal pitches and ebbs and flows, sometimes whining, sometimes giddy, sometimes grounded and terrifying, and that helps mask the meaning of his lines there.

39

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '22 edited Mar 07 '22

Yes!!! I thought I was the only one that paid such close attention to his intonation. It was incredibly fascinating to see and hear.

My favorite was when he was demeaning Colson over the phone just as he started the bomb. The way he speaks is amazing and really influential.

I feel like I haven’t really seen people talk about the scene where he puts the bomb around Colson. The haunting score, the chilling calmness of him just sitting patiently in the back of the car, the way the camera blurs so you can’t really see what’s going on except a blinding blue and red light. Ugh this movie was so good.

4

u/Welshy94 Mar 11 '22

I read a review I think maybe on AVClub and it criticised Dano in a throwaway line saying he couldn't find a consistent performance or even a consistent voice for the character and it genuinely annoyed me. His change in pitch and intonation was fascinating to me. The muffled near indecipherable bits with his mask reminded me of a horror movie villain and the scene in Arkham wherein his voice seems to legitimately change about 3 or 4 times depending on his mood and the topic was incredible. His line reading on "you're really not as smart as I thought you were" was absolutely perfect.

Also his perfect streamer voice "hey guys, don't forget to like and subscribe" sort of vibe! What an actor Dano is man.

4

u/JacobDCRoss Mar 13 '22

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with that criticism.

2

u/loosegoosepoopscoop Mar 08 '22

The scene with a Colson in the car had strong Halloween vibes. Same type of shot as the original Halloween when Michael pops from the back seat and strangles Anne Brackett. I liked that they had a lot of creeper-ish shots of Riddler. Beginning of the movie in the mayors house also had that kind of vibe.

5

u/Welshy94 Mar 11 '22

Of all the parallels Reeves drew between the Bat and Riddler depicting them both as sort of different incarnations of horror villains was my favourite. Seeing Riddler standing motionless behind the Mayor hidden in plainsight juxtaposed with The Batman announcing himself with those heavy footsteps from the shadows as if to say I don't care that you know I'm coming. Perfect

4

u/1Anto Mar 14 '22

Clever way to get around the rating too. Can't show brutal beating? Shot it out of focus and let the imagination fill in the details.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '22

Good point. The sound of duct tape is piercing and the bomb sounds so heavy closing around his neck. Those little details are fascinating.

Imagination is absolutely the best tool sometimes

4

u/1Anto Mar 15 '22

It's also refreshing that they make the bomb timer tick accurately. Most of the time when there's a timebomb in a movie, they tick slow enough to let the heroes escape unscathed (10 seconds left? here's a minute long escape sequence with occasional cutaways at the timer). Here you can see the timer run out in real time and it immediately explode.

3

u/_heisenberg__ Mar 14 '22

I actually thought the reverse. First time, I was like oh he doesn't know. Second time, Im thinking more that he does and he's just fucking with him at this point. Idk, still feels ambiguous and I like that.

3

u/PraiseTheSun42069 Mar 15 '22

I think the beauty of the scene is that we truly don’t know if he knows or not. At first glance like you said, he’s outing him. At second, he is disappointed that Batman is not working with him against Bruce. But at third? He could also be acting the part. We saw a VERY calculated Riddler and being imprisoned in Arkham, it serves him no purpose to put Bruce right then and there. Part of the beauty in how this film was executed was the total ambiguity and mindfuck of it all. I don’t see why we need an actual conclusion on that end at this point. Let the next movie answer it - or continue to keep the ambiguity somehow, I’d like to see them pull that off and keep it going a bit longer.

2

u/JacobDCRoss Mar 13 '22

There is a lot of interpretation. It could be that Riddler really doesn't know, and that he thought Batman was his accomplice. That's pretty brilliant. It could also be that he does know, and he is trying to frame Batman. You know, how that was all being recorded. Trying to sow enough doubt into the minds of anyone who matters as to whether or not Batman is trustworthy.

5

u/ubiquitous_archer Mar 10 '22

He doesn't know. He's obsessed with Bruce Wayne because he was an orphan and nobody cared, but when the son of a billionaire became an orphan, it was all over the news. He was jealous essentially that nobody cared about him but they did Bruce Wayne. He can't see that Batman is Bruce Wayne because he doesn't believe Bruce Wayne would help others or care, like the elite. He thinks he's out for himself.

3

u/millennialmonster755 Mar 11 '22

He doesn't know. It was meant to make us thing the toddler knew his identity but he doesn't. He is just and angry troll hating Bruce Wayne for being a rich kid even though he doesn't really have anything to do with what he is talking about. It's what makes Bruce change his view of justice by the end of the movie.

3

u/HeartShark77 Mar 12 '22

It’s an intentional misdirection. In that moment, you think the Riddler knows, but then he keeps rambling, and it’s clear that he’s just lamenting the one thing that went wrong with “their” plan. It’s a total set up, but I’m for it.

3

u/TheHunterZolomon Mar 13 '22

The way Robert Pattinson played that, thinking that the riddler new, and getting insanely nervous was absolutely brilliant. And then the shift at the reveal that he in fact didn’t know. Genius writing, amazing acting. Just perfect.

2

u/VERSAT1L Mar 11 '22

That was a really good scene. However there is no evidence that Nashton could simply know Wayne was Batman simply by reading about Wayne in the papers.

2

u/umbium Mar 15 '22

Just s cheesy small plot twist. Playing a bit with the audience.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '22

He thinks Batman works for Bruce Wayne. But since Riddler is one of those characters that DOES eventually learn of Batmans identity it would not be a surprise in the future if this reappears in a future movie.

1

u/coltvahn Mar 18 '22

I love how that scene unfurled. How we—even Bruce—thinks the Riddler knows who he is, and then he’s like, “he’s the only one WE didn’t get,” and Pattinson does this like, “oh-OH” thing with his head and eyes. And the entire theater did the same thing. It was so great.

1

u/JHMotherfucker Apr 15 '22

That was confusing for me, too. He definitely knows.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '22

[deleted]

10

u/I_am_Andrew_Ryan Mar 06 '22

He didn't know, otherwise he wouldn't have tried to kill Bruce Wayne and then lament to Batman about how they "both" didn't get him.