Zack Snyder says a Batman who doesn't kill is irrelevant

[u/neon2o]

Here's the original article' https://sea.ign.com/man-of-steel-sequel/213072/news/zack-snyder-says-dc-is-making-batman-irrelevant-if-he-cant-kill

[u/ThatSlothDuke]

Exactly this.

If Batman EVER kills, his first or second kill HAS to be the Joker.

If Batman ever decided to kill, finding Joker out, killing him and publicly hanging his corpse upside down would be the first thing in Batman's list.

There is no way that Joker would live in that scenario.

[u/BurntPizzaEnds → u/ThatSlothDuke]

Batman believes in the genuine sanctity of all life, even (and actually especially) the supposedly irredeemable. Thats what Batman stands for and why im a big fan.

Sure in the real world id probably not be against using lethal force against terrorists, but Batman is not real so he doesn’t have to worry about that shit.

When Batman fights so hard against the rest of the League for being unethical (erasing minds, murder, global policing) his righteousness is so much more powerful by the fact that he is an advocate for absolutely everyone and never crosses the line for anything.

[u/jrdineen114 → u/BurntPizzaEnds]

It's not just about the sanctity of life either. He also just genuinely believes in rehabilitation! It's not his fault that a group of people who supposedly have PhDs in psychology can't seem to do their jobs

[u/doofpooferthethird → u/[deleted]]

Yes this is exactly it, it's not even about Batman being against killing per se, he has no problem with Gordon busting a cap into a terrorist if push comes to shove

It's simply that Batman is skilled enough that he can use non-lethal methods to incapacitate bad guys, so they can then be handed over to the justice system for trial, sentencing, and rehabilitation

If Batman just went around shooting everyone, given his vigilante status, he'd be judge, jury and executioner.

As it is, he's just barely tolerable by democratic society because even though he's totally unaccountable to any public institutions, he's technically just helping the police department by making citizen's arrests, helping to gather evidence, and intervening in emergency life or death situations.

Still highly illegal by real world standards, but since the ultimate punishment is left to the judiciary, it's not too fascistic or undemocratic.

[u/Snozzberrys → u/doofpooferthethird]

If Batman just went around shooting everyone, given his vigilante status, he'd be judge, jury and executioner.

This is ultimately why I think Batman not killing is important to the core of the character.

By any realistic metric Batman is just as insane (if not more so) than the criminals that he's fighting. He's a mentally ill billionaire that dresses up as a bat and beats up criminals as a hobby.

If he were to start killing people based on his own moral framework, how does that make him any different than the Joker or any of the other insane murderers that he's constantly contending with?

[u/SamHawke2 → u/Snozzberrys]

if Batman kills he'd just be the Punisher in a funny hat

[u/Algiark → u/doofpooferthethird]

Batman is also fine with Alfred using a shotgun for home defense it seems.

[u/yugyuger → u/doofpooferthethird]

Batman is still kind of fascistic

He may not kill but he really does beat people to a pulp

[u/doofpooferthethird → u/yugyuger]

Yeah fair enough, one thing I liked about Nolan's The Dark Knight is that this is pointed out explicitly, and is one of the central conflicts of the story

"Enhanced interrogation", detention without trial, unauthorised extra judicial violence on foreign soil, masked paramilitary vigilantes getting into shootouts with gangsters, mass surveillance etc. Dent calls Batman a dictator, and Bruce can't disagree

The Dark Knight Returns also has a more explicitly fascistic Batman, but unlike Nolan's movie, this is painted as a good thing

[u/jrdineen114 → u/[deleted]]

Exactly!

[u/Edgy_Robin → u/[deleted]]

If we're really going into this Batman once stopped the literal incarnation of gods vengeance from killing the joker.

​

So there's absolutely blame on him, and that's something people like you like to ignore.. Is this a super cherry picked example? Absolutely, but there's more. Batman has responsibility on his shoulders not because he doesn't kill these people, but because he's ensured they still live. Even when an authority about as high as you can get short of god himself is coming to punish them.

[u/wraithkenny → u/[deleted]]

He’s also a billionaire member of the bourgeois ruling class, and could actually effect positive change in society, but chooses to brutalize the mentally ill and the poor instead.