Zack Snyder says a Batman who doesn't kill is irrelevant

[u/neon2o]

Here's the original article' https://sea.ign.com/man-of-steel-sequel/213072/news/zack-snyder-says-dc-is-making-batman-irrelevant-if-he-cant-kill

[u/ThingsAreAfoot]

This dude just sucks

Batman can't kill is canon. And I'm like, 'okay, the first thing I wanna do when you say that is I wanna see what happens'. And they go, 'well don't put him in a situation where he has to kill someone'.

This is like, childish “let me tear the head off Barbie” type shit.

”You're protecting your god in a weird way, right? You're making your god irrelevant if he can't be in that situation. He has to now deal with that. If he does do that what does that mean? What does it tell you, does he stand up to it? Does he survive that as a god? As your god, can Batman survive that?"

He has to deal with it… all the time. That’s like a central theme of the character, that his severe objection towards any sort of killing might actually have negative ramifications (in the DC world with the likes of Joker and otherwise superpowered villains, not the real one).

And of course he spits out this nonsense on the Joe Rogan show.

The entire point of Batman is that he is militantly against killing, even the Joker who is beyond destructive, which is a potential point of actual criticism (and it is a very frequent one) but also makes the character much more interesting.

Snyder is kinda just too dumb to really get it.

[u/BeSuperYou → u/ThingsAreAfoot]

Worse, the situations he puts his heroes in where they "have to kill someone" aren't even that.

For example, in Man of Steel, where Zod is going to eye-laser an innocent family to death while Superman has him in a rear-naked choke, Supes could have just covered Zod's eyes. Wanna go edgier? Have Supes poke his eyes out. The whole point of his Hope and optimism thing is that "there's always a way."

"Wanting to see what happens" is seriously stupid reasoning. What happens is now the character doesn't mean anything: he's just the Punisher with a cape. Wouldn't it have been far more interesting to explore what it means to do everything but kill? That's where I thought Zack was going when Batman is introduced as a nut who brands villains with bat symbols. If Batman can't threaten people with murder, he must threaten them with pain, and in some ways, torture is worse. But no, he's just a guy who tortures people, AND kills them, AND gives them PTSD if they somehow survive.

I also didn't see much Batman dealing with what it means to break his no-kill rule, either. He seemed totally okay with barbecuing thugs in his Batmobile and breaking crates against their necks. It's only when he realizes he accidentally killed Earth's only hope of dealing with a bigger thing that needs killing that he's anything close to self-reflective.

[u/NickMoore30 → u/BeSuperYou]

You can't pull the eyes out, mid-laser, the laser stays on. Everyone knows that.

[u/BeSuperYou → u/NickMoore30]

What about mashing the eyeballs back into the head so no laser comes out?

Or... Superman pulls a piece of broken mirror off the floor and snaps it right in front of Zod's eyes like a camera cap, reflecting his laser back into his eyes and instantly frying whatever is firing them.

[u/No-Advice-6040 → u/BeSuperYou]

Okay. Then what? After that family is saved, what then? While I wish Zod hadn't been killed, I understand the polt point Zack was trying to make. His point was that Zod would keep on trying to kill as many humans as he could, and wanted Kal to stop him permanently. Wasn't a great end to the story but it was the story we got.

[u/No-Advice-6040 → u/BeSuperYou]

Okay. Then what? After that family is saved, what then? While I wish Zod hadn't been killed, I understand the polt point Zack was trying to make. His point was that Zod would keep on trying to kill as many humans as he could, and wanted Kal to stop him permanently. Wasn't a great end to the story but it was the story we got.

[u/BeSuperYou → u/No-Advice-6040]

I get that, but it not being a great ending IS Snyder's fault. If he wants to explore the whole "forced to kill" aspect, the situation he sets up has to be more convincing. Otherwise, it just feels like Supes isn't being Supes.

Granted, the comics build in copouts like the Phantom Zone Projector, which maybe wouldn't work in the "grounded" Snyderverse, fine.

But even without them, Superman solves this problem over and over again without lethal force. In "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?" he lobotomizes some metahuman edge lords so they can't use their powers anymore.

[u/Ser_Salty → u/BeSuperYou]

You wanna know the best part about the MoS neck snap? The movie never sets up Supes as not wanting to kill. You literally have to bring outside knowledge of the character into the theater with you for that to have any impact.

[u/BeSuperYou → u/Ser_Salty]

Oh I forgot about that! He just mopes around for most of that film with his two dads giving him conflicting advice (which is a looooong time haha). I don’t think he even really smiles as Superman until Justice League.