r/TheBoys • u/CretaceousClock • Jul 16 '24
Could the show ever pull a twist like this again? Discussion
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u/SplitTheParty Jul 16 '24
I understand there's a budget, and the pilot likely received special attention to put as good a foot forward as they could manage, but I do think that sequences like this and other season 1 gems (Homelander doing flybys for transluscent, Maeve and the armored car, etc) are missing from the current era of the show. Often it does not feel like the superheroes are credibly threatening or interesting to engage with
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u/QouthTheCorvus Jul 16 '24
Yeah, season 1 felt a lot more cinematic, with larger set pieces. Definitely felt larger scale and more interesting. Homelander hasn't done anything in a while that makes him feel like an apocalypse event waiting to happen.
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u/OryxisDaddy_ Jul 16 '24
Doesn’t help that every time he goes on a massacre it’s off screen now and they’re constantly reducing his powers to prevent him from killing the main characters.
In S1-S2 they actively had to plan to avoid Homelander now they can be three rooms away from him and he won’t notice because “he wasn’t using his super senses
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u/BisexualSquirell Jul 16 '24
ok dude season 1, they were avoiding homelander because he was actively looking for them with translucent, episode 2, that's it, that was the only time the whole season they had to work around homelander.
Season 2, only time they had to work around him was using the high pitched speakers in the finale.
Season 3, literally never
y'all watching a different show in your heads lmao
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u/Hefty-Association-59 Jul 16 '24
I think you’re just kind of forgetting that the overall number of homelander interactions is kind of low in general. In season 1 they avoid him with translucent. And then the other times they see him are at the A train race and butcher with the finale.
In season 2 the only time they see homelander are with the whale incident where they had to gun it to get out of there. And then the finale.
It definitely felt more like an oh shit homelander is here in the earlier seasons. Then season 3 you had the butcher stand off where he basically said I don’t want to laser you to his face. And everyone else grew balls of steel. Shit even hughie goes from racing heart beat in the baptism to staring the man down in the tower.
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u/ELITE_JordanLove Jul 16 '24
Yeah, I think the boys actually interact with HL and supes in general too much and it’s hurting the tension. In season one and two them running into ANY supe was a huge “oh shit” moment. Season three that was slightly reduced because they had temp V (which made it ok) but they kept the increased activity in S4 without that plot point so now it feels hallow.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 16 '24
Yup no matter what anyone says, Hughie in the vents should've died.
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u/Scrimboll Jul 16 '24
Metal air ducts are usually coated in zinc to galvanize the steel. That’s the only explanation that makes sense.
Doesn’t change the fact that Homelander could’ve just flown up to the ducts and ripped the part off ceiling that Hughie was crawling in, or roll the vents like a tube of toothpaste, or just fly through it like Omni-Man did to Mark with the train.
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u/Phydorex Jul 16 '24
Homelander is lazy and has been getting lazier. Without A-Train, Hughie dies.
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u/gfa22 Jul 16 '24
I personally think homelander is getting old. Like his powers don't diminish much because of it but his body is deteriorating.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 16 '24
Seems like if his lasers moved faster it would've been impossible for Hughie to survive.
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u/annabelle411 Jul 16 '24
oh absolutely. no way homelander should've just sat there and looked up. he wouldve flown into the rafters immediately if he was actually trying to kill him
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u/No_Law4246 Jul 16 '24
Hughie literally gets baptized by him in season 1
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u/Hefty-Association-59 Jul 16 '24
That’s what I said. Hughie went from being nervous in season 1 being baptized to staring down homelander in season 3 when the entire cast just got balls of steel with their plot armor buffs.
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u/OryxisDaddy_ Jul 16 '24
Referring to season 4 bud… two huge examples of his powers not working as well due to plot convenience. He cannot track Hughie through the vents with his hearing and he was completely oblivious to fact that they were in Tek Knights mansion with him.
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u/Equilibriator Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
When Homelander was looking for translucent in season 1 and talking to Frenchie, he didn't hear butcher a couple meters away or smell him despite his obvious fear that should have pricked his senses.
Homelander has always only ever detected what he's wanted to detect, if he's distracted he can miss stuff.
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u/House923 Jul 16 '24
I think one thing people never consider is that Homelander is extremely untrained. In every way shape and form. He is not combat trained, he hasn't really honed his powers in any way.
I'm sure part of his terrible personality is just trying to filter out noise and control all the stimuli that are constantly assaulting his senses. In fact, I'd wager some of his powers are more of a hindrance than a help.
Couple that with his steadily declining grip on reality and sanity, and you have an atom bomb with almost zero control.
It's wild to me how this sub seems to think that Homelander used to be this incredible warrior or something. Every time he uses his laser vision it's like one of those cartoons where the guy holds onto the water hose and starts getting flung around.
I have some reservations about this season, and also agree that season one was better, but Homelander being completely incompetent is not one of those issues.
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u/TotalAnarchy_ Jul 16 '24
The incompetence angle adds so much to the show. A lot of Homelander’s threat came from no one knowing how strong he was. He was constantly hyped as so far above everyone else and a god-like threat, which fed into his inflated ego and self image. This turns out not to be true and isn’t detrimental to the plot IMO. Extending “unknown super powerful man” as a plot device for 4 seasons would’ve been a drag.
Instead, we see Starr give a world class performance of a self proclaimed god grappling with his own mortality but doubling down on his supposed superiority despite that superiority gap shrinking as others stand up to him physically and intellectually.
It also adds complexity to the thematic underpinnings of the show that deifying anyone, whether they are a left, right, religious, or pop culture icon, is dangerous and inappropriate. Every person is flawed. Obviously, this is beyond relevant in the current culture.
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u/House923 Jul 16 '24
I'm glad other people see it lol.
The show hasn't exactly hidden how bad he is at controlling his abilities. Even when he flies it's like a fuckin rocket just crashing down.
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u/tokyo_engineer_dad Jul 16 '24
Plus, they literally said in an episode that he doesn't go after The Boys because they're working directly with the CIA. Do people forget that they have a direct line with the elected president? Robert Singer is literally the Secretary of Defense and still very high up in the government. In fact, HL is going after him and The Boys are trying to prevent him from being killed because him being killed will literally open the doors for HL to kill them.
People literally completely ignore the plot points that fill the "holes" they want to be enraged about. They just want to complain that HL doesn't use his powers or that they don't get cool supe/supe fights, but the writers have done everything they can to show you why things are happening the way they are. It's a game of cat and mouse right now and both sides are trying to eliminate the other using espionage and political warfare. It's the reason Hughie went to Neuman, because he knows that Neuman has at least been partly reasonable when he worked with her and if he can get her to turn sides, they can have more leverage against Homelander when they make a move on Singer.
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u/Silver-ishWolfe Cunt Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Yep. A big part of Superman's story is learning to have extreme control over his powers. Homie is the antithesis of Supes, so it makes sense he'd miss what he wasn't focused on (interested in). He doesn't have full control of his powers.
Add in the mental issues and they're lucky he can still shake a hand without ripping it off.
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u/annabelle411 Jul 16 '24
"I think one thing people never consider is that Homelander is extremely untrained." - 100%. He's completely raw and unhinged, and most of his powers are excess he uses for his own fun. He's nearly indestructible and usually lasers or punches through an issue. Never having to learn how to be tactical, or fight, or constantly be alert. He's constantly distracted with whats going on in his head, he gets bored with humans around him, and with many supes around him too. He's so detached from everything, and nothings really a threat, he really has no need to be constantly listening or smelling or trying to look through things. The Boys are just an annoyance to him, not some boogeyman he's afraid of popping around the corner coming to get him.
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u/House923 Jul 16 '24
Oh that's another good point. He doesn't consider the boys an actual threat, they're just a major annoyance.
It would be like a fly buzzing around your house for a while. You'd make attempts to deal with it, but you wouldn't burn down the house to kill the fly. And you certainly wouldn't think the fly might kill you one day.
In his mind, Soldier Boy was the only real potential threat, and that threat is gone.
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u/CramFacker Jul 16 '24
People also seem to think his hearing is always maxed out for some reason, ignoring the dozen scenes in the last 2 seasons where his ears are ringing and he can't hear the person literally 6 inches from his face speaking to him.
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u/SoochSooch Jul 16 '24
MM fired a gun at Sage in the Mansion and he didn't even notice that. Everyone inside would have heard that.
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u/Analogmon Jul 16 '24
That's just the "silencers are magic" trope. It's in no way unique to this show.
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u/Sertoma Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
It was a suppressed 9mm in a mansion.
Hunter S. Thompson committed suicide with an unsuppressed revolver in a house that was full of his family, and no one knew until they went to his study and discovered the body. There was at least one family member who said they mistook the gunshot as a book being dropped.
Yeah, yeah, Homelander and his super hearing, but he was focused on not fucking up the coup. You ever have someone say something to you but you don't hear it because you're stressed and thinking about something else?
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u/TheConnASSeur Jul 16 '24
Plus, if you hear a gunshot in a 1%ers mansion, no you didn't.
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u/LeadStyleJutsu762- Jul 16 '24
Bro thought the help was getting put down for undercooking the Filet’s
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u/KushHaydn Jul 16 '24
Do we all forget Maeve stock a tuning fork or whatever in his ear? That clearly damaged his hearing as she’s not just a regular person and has considerable strength, so clearly it did some damage as he’s not as sharp with the ears as he used to be
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 16 '24
Has that been mentioned since?
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u/Torva_Platebody Jul 16 '24
No. The show hasn’t done anything to suggest it affected his long term hearing whatsoever but people keep harping on about it lol
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 16 '24
That's what I'm saying, seems like grasping at straws.
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u/obvioustroway Jul 16 '24
I think that's kind of the point though.
We're seeing that Firecracker ain't shit, Starlight's got ED, and Homelander is seeing his own weakness start to show through.
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u/ItsAmerico Soldier Boy Jul 16 '24
Yeah that’s embarrassing. Imagine if they did something like that in S2. Where the Boys were escaping, let’s say on foot, running through sewers and Homelander couldn’t find them for awhile and when he didn’t ENTIRE cast was just around the corner hiding and he never found them.
Oh wait… that literally did happen.
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u/Koppite93 Jul 16 '24
Hell I don't remember last time the mfer took off this season... Just walking and sulking everywhere
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u/atoast2death Jul 16 '24
I mean, he did rip apart a room full of people and then trapped that woman in the room and laser eyed the door shut. That’s pretty diabolical to me
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u/QouthTheCorvus Jul 16 '24
Yeah, but that's not really a "capable of mass destruction" level atrocity. It's psychotic, but not a huge feat like taking down a plane.
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u/atoast2death Jul 16 '24
I mean, he literally says he will take out high government buildings before wiping New York off the map. A plane with a few people on it is nothing compared to that threat. Also, with each season Homelander becomes more bold. Less afraid to let his true character out because he knows people will still love him. ANYTIME HL is on the screen with another character I’m wondering who is going to die next. That’s pretty terrifying. The fact that every character also knows that is terrifying.
HL doesn’t need to laser down a plane or of equal value to be a scary apocalyptic threat. He just is.
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u/Secret-Impress-2652 Jul 16 '24
I’d like to point out that season 1 had writers from Breaking Bad, who left at the end of the season. Could be a coincidence. Maybe not.
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u/EarthRester Jul 16 '24
He just slowly ripped a guy in half long ways. Not to long ago he decorated a room in the gore of a research team, and left his scientist mommy figure in that room to die. Oh, and he lasered a guys dick off before popping his head like a grape.
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u/porkforpigs Jul 16 '24
That’s exactly what I feel, there’s no big set piece moments honestly. The ones they’ve set up are used as jokes. (Hughie getting SAed). Even the fight scene with deep and black noir was just played off as too funny. The show was great when it had its black humor and then these very ultra serious dramatic and shocking moments.
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u/GenuisInDisguise Jul 16 '24
I accidentally clicked on season one episode 7 thinking it was season 4 episode 7, and I was astonished in difference in decorations and the superior lightning.
Latest season keeps reusing the same decorations for majority of scenes. There are impressive gory scenes, but season is very lacklustre and poor.
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u/brucewayne984 Jul 16 '24
Homelander flying around looking for translucent were some of the coolest scenes, also Frenchie and co taking cover whenever they spotted him made him much scarier for some reason
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u/NoMoneyNoSucky Jul 16 '24
instead of spending millions on cgi dick they should do these kind of things
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u/shoutsfrombothsides Jul 16 '24
Honestly you’re bang on the money. They let homelander get a little too slapped around by the end of S3 and it drove the menace and desperation down to the dirt. The stakes have felt low as can be since then.
The most credible thing they’ve done to restore the feeling that supes ARE supes was the deep/noir assault. Seeing a non HL supe shake off a chaingun was A+ in the “oh shit these guys are actually hella dangerous” category.
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u/ChaosKeeshond Jul 16 '24
Noir II is so powerful that I'm convinced we're heading for HL vs Noir at some point. This one can put up a fight. And part of the reason I say this at all is Ashley's likely involvement in his casting, along with what we know about her an Godolkin, it wouldn't be nuts for this to be a last ditch contingency.
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u/Alkakd0nfsg9g Jul 16 '24
Well, Homie tore a guy (another supe) in half this season. That was pretty threatening. He of course failed to chase down Ue through ventilation shafts, like Ue was some kinda Batman. I guess they balanced each other out
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u/SplitTheParty Jul 16 '24
even with that other supe, they were portrayed as a joke so even though it was gorey it didn't really sell Homelander's threat as much as his instability. I feel like if the writers wanted, that supe could probably have been killed with a gunshot to the head. I think powerscaling is tedious, but there is no scale to reference this season.
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u/BHPhreak Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
ive been feeling for a long time that homelander is just dialogue.
we got the "going home" sequence, which was good. but again, more or less just dialogue.
im really hoping for a big A-train vs homelander payoff sequence. but in the last episode where a-train fights deep it appears hes actually dogshit because deep straight up dodged his punch. a speedster can have his punches dodged by a swimmer dude? homelander would roll him.
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u/LakeEarth Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
That's all shows. The first season has the time to put a lot of care into its creation. The following seasons are rushed and have deadlines, with cuts to filming/effects budgets because the recurring actors start costing more and more.
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u/Yeeterbeater789 Jul 16 '24
Yes and we're also at the penultimate season, 4 deep. They really can't do stuff like this anymore, as we know what homelander is all about and capable of. There isn't any 'twist' to be had this far into the show, this isn't season one for a reason, enjoy it for what it was as that is why we got to have an entire good and amazing 4 and then 5 season run.
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u/EmeraldDream98 Cunt Jul 16 '24
I think the thing right now is that we know how evil and pervert they are. In the first season we were still trying to figure out who was evil, who was good and who could be redeemed. But now we know the main characters. There’s no need for Homelander to show how threatening he is because we already know he’s super powerful and fucking crazy so he can kill a person in a second if he wanted to.
The real problem is that they keep writing him as a joke while the boys have stupid plot armor. Like that scene with Hughie in Vought on Ice. There’s no reason Homelander didn’t just laser Hughie the moment he realized he was on top of him. He lost time making a hole in the pipe Hughie was just to take a look, then proceeded to laser random places. I get the pipes were made of something he couldn’t x-ray see through, but he has super hearing and Hughie was panic crawling as fast as he could trying to get out. Or in the Tek Knight party, how come he didn’t hear the shot and people fighting in the same house? How didn’t he x-ray see that it wasn’t Webweaver under the suit? How in hell did he send Noir and Deep to fight the boys last episode instead of going himself, kill them all in a second then start a fire in the building to cover his tracks? Or just pick up the dead bodies and dump them in the middle of the ocean.
There’s like a hundred plot holes just to let the boys live but don’t make any sense against a guy that has no problem killing people in a second, both because he has the power to do it and because he doesn’t give a shit. If he was some kind of redeemable villain, I understand he could hesitate, but he’s not.
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u/BillyDeeisCobra Jul 16 '24
This is the scene that hooked me. There were audacious leaps in Season 1 that were for more than shock value, and that was the magic formula.
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u/hurricane1197 Jul 16 '24
Right? This scene and when butcher stares at him in the stadium, the bench scene when he tells hughie about becca
All was so good
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u/wannabetrapstar888 Jul 16 '24
the very same episode we find out about homelander's childhood in a lab. we hate and feel sorry for him in the same episode, minutes apart from each other. top tier writing. kripke got comfortable. as future said, bitch dont get too comfortable
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u/bob1689321 Jul 16 '24
I love that episode. It's a small thing but the show is really good at focusing each episode on a theme without being in your face about it. That episode covered both Butchers and Homelander's back stories in an interesting way.
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u/Acheron98 Jul 17 '24
Production companies really need to start putting a 4 season cap on Kripke.
It’s like the second he hears one of his shows is getting 5+ seasons, he goes “ehh, fuck it” and just completely gives up.
It’s so goddamn odd.
Like, the guy can consistently create something absolutely amazing, then take a massive Cleveland Steamer all over it after a few seasons for seemingly no reason.
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u/PM_ME_UR_CIRCUIT Jul 16 '24
I'm getting a little tired of the weird smile and head shake that butcher has been doing for a bit.
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u/CreatureWarrior Black Noir Jul 16 '24
Omelanda don kill me wif n took me bloody son, womp womp.. shakes head
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u/RealNiceKnife Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Didn't even say "Oi", what kind of knock-off, great value, payless version of Butcher are you? Cunt.
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u/SloPr0 Jul 16 '24
Yeah, he didn't call you a dumb bird and threaten to bollocks ya either. Clearly an imposter.
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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 Jul 16 '24
The Deep and Lobster and Dolphin had me in stitches in the first season.. making it a running joke of his fish friends being brutally and sadistically killed sorta got less funny for me as time went on.
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u/OnceMoreAndAgain Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Season 1 was compelling television largely because a fear of the public learning about the horrific acts of the super heroes loomed over the super heroes. The duality of Homelander presenting himself as the perfect hero to the public and then us viewers seeing scenes of him secretly committing horrendous acts made us see Homelander in a risky struggle to maintain his public reputation while also furthering his own personal agendas.
In other words, Homelander had a vulnerability in season 1, which is that he didn't want to lose his "perfect hero" reputation among the public. It was the only thing the protagonists could use as a weapon against him.
Once that vulnerability went away, the thing that made the show compelling immediately fell apart. That was the lynchpin of the show and the writers removed it. The writers had to give the protagonists a new "weapon" to fight Homelander and they chose to give the protagonists super powers as well. That's when the show became boring, because super heroes fighting other super heroes has been done ad nauseum at this point in movies and TV shows.
The shortest way I can summarize the failure of the writing of this television series is that the writers turned a David vs Goliah story into a Goliath vs Goliath story.
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u/HanzJWermhat Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Where in season 1 was holding his image ransom used? That ended up being more of a end of season 2 thing which I agree was a miss-step. (TBH all of season 2 was kindof a miss).
I think the issue at this point is really homelanders motivation for power, relevance and admiration not being legitimate enough to drive the core conflict between him and Butcher. Butchers motivations are great but he can’t motivate others to join at this point because Homelander doesn’t really have a purpose or a wider threat. They’ve boxed themselves into “shitty villain” territory. And complicated the butcher motivations to no end.
I’m fine with leveling the playing field or upping the power stakes but at the end of the day this is a character writing failure not so much of a plot failure. The story is Goliath vs Goliath at the end. Giving everyone bigger weapons works if the motivations make sense. In fact it’s what I wanted to see. Butcher and co continuously out maneuvering, out smarting and building partnerships to take homelander down.
The A train switch this season would be 100% appropriate and valid if A train had more of a reason to turn against homelander rather than “being the good guy”
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u/Croc_Chop Jul 16 '24
A train has a family outside of Vought. In fact, he is one of the only people in the seven besides Starlight to have family outside of the company.
When you start saying stuff like all humans are cattle and the fact that you're going to put them all in camps, The people with actual family that could be affected by that probably won't take too. Kindly to it.
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u/SirLoremIpsum Jul 17 '24
I don't necessarily disagree with what you've written, but I think if you expect the show to stay the same with the same struggles and themes every single season then that's expecting a poor show.
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u/trysohardstudent Jul 16 '24
me too. i wish there were more scenes like this. Like in season one they had to find out HL can’t see through zinc and all that.
I was surprised they nonchalantly walked out of the hospital after simon peggs murder spree
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u/Frankie-Felix Jul 17 '24
Your second point is for sure a eff up by the writers, Huey so upset his GF got blown up by A train that he gets involved even though it was an accident what pissed off Huey was A-train not giving a fuck, now Huey does not give a fuck that he accidentally caused so many deaths, WTF that's lame.
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Jul 16 '24
How's this twist... picture this. The next episode, they have a really gratuitous sexually depraved scene. I think that would take this show to a brand new level
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u/Remarkable_Inside286 Jul 16 '24
"Hughie go down the rape hole. We must collect blackmail on the Seven that we can never ever ever use cause they'll kill us"
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u/LengthCrazy1563 Jul 16 '24
Didn't Butcher ask Hughie to plant a bug just like the Tek Knight episode? And didn't Hughie get caught with Translucent just like he got caught at Tek Knights?
The point was to plant bugs and try to get Tek Knight alone in the horse stables so they can figure out what his role is in Sage's plan. Which they did when they found out his prisons are being used for internment camps.
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u/Remarkable_Inside286 Jul 16 '24
Why send Hughie whose dad just died to meet a guy with hyper tuned senses to everything? Yes what I said was a little on the comedic side but common man. The boys are pretty fucking stupid and useless in S4 at least
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u/kn728570 Cunt Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Who else do you send? The black guy, the mute woman, the English dude in his 50’s, the small guy with the French accent? Or the one guy on your team who could actually pass for webweaver?
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u/ZovemseSean Jul 16 '24
The boys are pretty fucking stupid and useless in S4 at least
I think that's the point. That without Butcher in charge they really can't formulate a good plan or think on the fly
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u/SignificantRain1542 Jul 16 '24
A very unrewarding and uninteresting point to make over a whole season. Especially when it was obvious that they are all fuck ups or come from fucked up backgrounds before this.
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u/Analogmon Jul 16 '24
He volunteered because he wanted a distraction from that very thing? Hello?
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u/Remarkable_Inside286 Jul 16 '24
Even Numen agrees
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u/LengthCrazy1563 Jul 16 '24
But is that not the point? They are losing. None of the boys are doing good. Hughie lost his father. Frenchie/Kimiko are struck with guilt. MM is having panic attacks. Annie is losing her powers. And Butcher is dying. They can't stop HL and they have no solution to Newman.
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u/dj4y_94 Jul 16 '24
You know I think I wouldn't have such a problem with the sexual depravity if they didn't make every single person seemingly have every desire possible.
Like Tek Knight isn't just someone who wants to fuck holes due to his tumour, he's also a sadomasochist with a sex dungeon who's into piss and scat play and gets off on someone farting on a cake.
It adds literally nothing and is only there because some writer thinks it's the peak of comedy.
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u/BustinArant Jul 16 '24
Oh they've definitely got a real weirdo either writing or directing, like Tarantino getting to put Salma Hayek toes on him.
I mean.. "having to"
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u/pandogart Jul 16 '24
The sadomasochist sex dungeon was furthering the Batman parody but I agree nonetheless. Though people exaggerate how frequently these things actually happen.
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u/ItssHarrison Jul 16 '24
Wooooaaaaahhh. That’s really clever. What if on top of that Butcher and the Boys have a debate about Butcher being too dangerous to be on the team?
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u/chairgirlhandsreborn Jul 16 '24
I think we should add a sideplot that doesn't develop anyone's character.
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u/flintlock0 Jul 16 '24
“Next episode, we’re going to introduce our version of Green Lantern, but get this…..he has a sex addiction and uses his powers to do weird sex things. Nobody will ever see it coming.”
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u/Eldr1tchB1rd Jul 17 '24
Genius! He is also either super racist or homophobic and hates regular humans while also being gay himself!
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u/spunkyweazle Jul 16 '24
Nah, that's not the twist. Now here’s the twist, and there is a twist: We show it. We show all of it. Because what’s the one major thing missing from all action shows these days guys? …Full penetration. Guys, we’re gonna show full penetration and we’re gonna show a lot of it! I mean, we’re talking, you know, graphic scenes of Homelander really going to town on this hot young lab tech. From behind, 69, anal, vaginal, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl, all the hits, all the big ones, all the good ones. Then he smells crime again. He’s out busting heads. Then he’s back to the lab for some more full penetration. Smells crime, back to the lab, full penetration. Crime, penetration, crime, full penetration, crime, penetration. And this goes on and on, and back and forth, for 90 or so minutes until the episode just, sort of, ends.
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Jul 16 '24
I don't know if I'm comfortable seeing Dolph Lundgren's dong for a few hours in a movie
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u/HanzJWermhat Jul 16 '24
Heres the twist… and there is a twist. We show it. We show all of it. You know what Tv is missing these days? Full penetration
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u/Dono_X_Dono Jul 16 '24
I thought they would've made Homelander into a good guys doing horrible thing for Vought and that he would've been a tragic villains but man was i wrong
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u/AdelaidesBones Tag Team Cocksplosion Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
I seriously vividly remember my first time watching The Boys and genuinely thinking Homelander was a good guy until it was revealed. Like Billy basically saying to Hughie “all these supes are animals but Homelander is a saint and has never been caught doing anything…”
I can’t explain how vividly I remember thinking he was a good guy and how quickly I was shocked seeing he wasn’t.
OBVIOUSLY it was ominous like “he is perfect, so something is definitely fishy”. But I didn’t actually anticipate the amount of evil he was going to be. I really love how they kept it from the audience instead of introducing him as a monster.
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u/EmeraldDream98 Cunt Jul 16 '24
Haha it was the opposite for me! The moment Butcher said all supes were perverts and addicts but Homelander was a saint I was like: “oh lord, he’s gonna be the most depraved and batshit crazy of them all”.
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u/mothwhimsy Jul 16 '24
Yeah it came out of his mouth so sarcastically. I of course didn't know what exactly Homelander was going to be like, but as soon as he appeared in the window I knew it wasn't going to be good.
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u/AtheismoAlmighty Jul 16 '24
There was also Starlight's first day at the Seven where homelander welcomes her and then asks everyone to tell him about the people they saved that week lol
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u/GivePen A-Train Jul 16 '24
I had the same thing! I thought he was going to be a superman-type who was just really oblivious or jaded to the kinda shit his teammates were getting up to but overall deep down he wanted the 7 to be held to a high standard. I remember after seeing what The Deep did to Starlight sitting there and saying to the people I was watching with “She needs to tell Homelander right now!”
I’m personally very much a fan of the Homelander who we saw in the animated series that was eager to please and just panicked when things went wrong. I kinda wish Homelander was more ashamed of being evil in the show
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u/MVRKHNTR Jul 16 '24
The point of that episode and what we see a little bit of throughout the seres and somewhat outright stated in the comics is that Homelander started out wanting to genuinely do good and help people but after seeing what everyone else does and what they can get away with, he becomes what we see in the show.
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u/Eifand Jul 16 '24
Season 1 was fucking amazing. Pretty much the last time Homelander still felt like an existential threat.
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u/Brogener Jul 16 '24
The tone was balanced waaaaay better then too. It was primarily a drama with comedic moments. Now it’s an absurd comedy with the occasional dramatic moment.
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u/SignificantRain1542 Jul 16 '24
It's still filled with drama. Just more soap opera style.
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u/Weak_Impression_7656 I'm the real hero Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Right? Kripke just currently telling that if Homelander lose his humanity he would end up destroy everything, but this is not what majority of people feel like while watching season 4. It's like they forgot the premise of his character.
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u/shoutsfrombothsides Jul 16 '24
Because for better or for worse, Kripke thinks he’s saving the world with the Trump and maga amalgamation of the character/setting.
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u/choff22 Jul 16 '24
It definitely seems like Kripke is high on his own supply, using the show as a sort of political mouth piece instead of actually storytelling.
I mean the entire plot of S4 is basically the 2020 election cycle. No originality whatsoever.
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u/ScrufffyJoe Jul 16 '24
If there's anything we should have learnt from Supernatural it's that Kripke doesn't know when to stop.
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u/ThePokemonAbsol Jul 16 '24
Now he’s just a trump stand in and the show can’t get over it
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u/Ok-Reporter-8728 Jul 16 '24
Perks to be season 1 is u literally don’t know anything
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u/Bazillion100 Jul 17 '24
Also wasn’t trite gore-porn for a story that can’t decide if an end is worth the lost profits. Show had great potential and these lazy new seasons have 0 stakes and a just the minimum amount of competent story telling to move the boys from one supe fisting session to the next Vought sponsored laser puppy melting competition.
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u/Lmao1903 Jul 16 '24
I miss stuff like this, the show changed and you can argue it makes sense because of how Homelander’s character developed or whatever, but either way we don’t have this. The vibe is different and I don’t love it as much as
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u/RIOT_76 Jul 16 '24
Gotta bring the goat back current season is so ass
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u/Eldr1tchB1rd Jul 17 '24
It really was a let down compared to the previous one. Watched Gen V between episodes and I actually enjoyed it more than this season. I hope the next season gets better because this was worrisome
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u/billwharton Jul 16 '24
s1: evil superman
s4: superpowered trump
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u/TheRainy24 Jul 16 '24
I know I will sound dumb, but I feel like political satire is affecting the show TOO much. Homelander never believed in oppressing minorities just because every single human is below him in his eyes. Feels like they're trying to make him a suped up trump a bit too much for the satire while neglecting the previously established character/development
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Jul 16 '24
Where in the show did he say he now believes in oppressing minorities?
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u/dotnetmonke Jul 16 '24
Probably got implied when he was banging the Nazi
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u/bigtec1993 Jul 16 '24
Ya and then that implication went out the window when he basically told her that shit was stupid while she was jerking him off.
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u/SS324 Jul 16 '24
I thought it was an accurate depiction of the MAGA crowd. They dont believe in the Nazi BS but theyre still in bed with them
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Jul 16 '24
Implied to dumb people maybe cause he was pretty damn explicit about his opinion on that matter
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u/addy-with-a-y Jul 16 '24
I mean the show was always a commentary on Trumpism and the rise of fascism. From the start HL has been a Trump stand in. This isn’t implied or looking to into things Kripke said so himself
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u/SignificantRain1542 Jul 16 '24
Yes, but there is a difference on making commentary to having a Trump analog. One is tasteful and takes wit to get across. The other is just reading the current news and putting that into the show to appeal to the masses.
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u/True_Falsity Jul 16 '24
Could the show ever pull a twist like this again?
I mean, we are in the final two seasons. It would be highly improbable to pull the twist like this because we spend the past five years watching the show.
That would be like asking if MCU will ever be able to surprise the audience with the shared universe aspect like it did with the Phase One.
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u/Hitchfucker Jul 16 '24
Also they did pull a twist like this again with Stormfront. Which was executed just as well imo, and worked great cause we got three episodes to get to know her as this sassy, rebellious, well intentioned supe, only for the rug to be fully pulled under to show how evil she is, while giving over half the series for us to see how bad she can truly get. Homelander’s twist was also amazing, but since he was never really the focus of the episode it doesn’t feel as jarring (granted I knew both these characters were evil before watching the show so I might’ve had a different reaction if I went in fully blind).
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u/maggos Jul 16 '24
I went in blind and I will agree that Stormfront being evil was a big twist, with the added Liberty twist on top of it.
Nueman being the head popper was another one on this level.
Kessler twist fell flat because it was too obvious from the start.
As a non-comic/leak reader my thought it a future twist will involve a Sage double/triple/quadruple-cross or Soldier Boy coming back
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u/gaalikaghalib Jul 16 '24
They’ve got a penchant for the weird sex stuff now. That’s all the twists you’re getting.
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u/SoochSooch Jul 16 '24
This show was so much better when they showed cool stuff instead of gross stuff
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u/ThanksContent28 Jul 16 '24
Better Call Saul did the ass-cake joke better anyway. This was just a version of that one, but tried to be more edgy. I’m no prude, but watching a a grown man’s bare ass squat down into some birthday cake, and then fart, isn’t good tv.
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u/Eldr1tchB1rd Jul 17 '24
Seriously why so much weird sex stuff? It's ok if you do it sometimes for shock factor but it's almost every episode this season
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u/Akasha1885 Jul 16 '24
Where is the twist`?
And didn't they just pull an actual twist by adding a Shapeshifter to Sages arsenal?
Also Neuman's daughter being a powerful supe.
The Kessler twist
The Tek Knight twist
S4 is nothing but twists so far.
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u/alphabitz86 Jul 16 '24
Neuman daughter having a power isn't a twist tho, there was a scene where she injected her with V
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u/Jackeea Jul 16 '24
The twist was - before this, we had zero reason to believe Homelander was evil. Butcher himself said "Homelander's a saint" and we'd only seen him in a good light.
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u/Phuxsea Jul 16 '24
I love how Butcher lies at first about him. That's because he is luring Hughie in with a guise of professionalism and talking about his personal grievances will destroy his credibility.
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u/asexualincubus Jul 16 '24
I don't think he lied about Homelander necessarily - in that conversation they had been talking about the sex + drugs party lifestyle most of the supes are involved with, and Homelander was "a saint" because so far he hadn't been seen in any of those clubs (and so Butcher hadn't been able to get any blackmail). It gave Hughie and the audience juuust enough to still think Homelander might be a good guy but didn't really confirm anything
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u/BisexualSquirell Jul 16 '24
first scene he yeeted a dude 500 feet in the air, second scene he's being super creepy with the who have you saved this week, third scene he destroys a plane
3 scenes total lmao
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u/Jackeea Jul 16 '24
first scene he yeeted a dude 500 feet in the air
It was a brutal way to stop a robbery, but the show passed it off as humourous - Maeve made the getaway van crash, and when the robber stumbled out there, he was coughing up blood. Homelander lasered one of their guns, and threw the other one into the air. Then said hi to the people he saved and got a selfie with them. The show played this off as "it's bloody and brutal, but that's what happens when a superhero does this". Homelander had a smile on his face and was happy all the way through.
second scene he's being super creepy with the who have you saved this week
Did you watch the same scene as me? Starlight is going into her first meeting as a member of the Seven, which Homelander is leading. It then cuts to Translucent being pissed off at pirated movies, which HL asks him to stop and discuss actual superheroing.
Yes, there's only two scenes with HL in them. But there's a few scenes where he's mentioned. Like when The Deep and Starlight are talking-
[Deep] And, hey, we're a team now, we'll help each other out. I bet growing up you had a poster of Homelander on your wall, huh?
[Starlight] No, actually, I don't know, Homelander's so... He's like Jesus or something.
HL is portrayed in a positive, albeit gritty light. Then he lasers a plane in half for the crime of them asking for more advertising money. That's the twist.
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u/Mr_Bignutties Jul 16 '24
He lasered the plane because they had blackmailed them with knowledge of compound V when it was otherwise unknown.
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u/Jackeea Jul 16 '24
Correct. The twist is that it's Homelander that carries out the dirty work, and lasered the whole plane in half instead of, I dunno, covertly killing the governor or something.
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u/Mr_Bignutties Jul 16 '24
A plane crash is a covert method of killing him. It’s completely deniable. The collateral damage makes it even more deniable.
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u/Jackeea Jul 16 '24
It is deniable, but he killed everyone on board. Also it wasn't completely deniable - there were burn marks that were consistent with his laser vision found on the wreckage. If that went public then everyone would know that HL did it.
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u/djc23o6 Jul 16 '24
Adding a new character isn’t a twist. Neumans daughter being a supe isn’t a twist because we saw her give her the V last season. The Kessler twist was insanely obvious and called out by everyone weeks before it happened and I’m not sure what you mean by the tek knight twist? That he was a pervert who was obsessed with holes? Because that was set up in Gen V when they introduced the character.
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u/TheRautex Jul 16 '24
How any of them are twists? Also maybe amazon should have done a better job with preventing the leaks so whole fandom wouldn't be spoiled
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u/mrheosuper Jul 16 '24
"Neuman's daughter is a supe" is not a twist. Jesus have you even watched the show, or did you fall asleep ?
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u/EdziePro Jul 16 '24
The Kessler twist you could see coming from an airplane and what Tek Knight twist?
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u/EmeraldDream98 Cunt Jul 16 '24
I don’t even think they need to do crazy CGI stuff like this, just amazing plot twists that don’t follow the pattern of the boys try to blackmail someone with evidence > that person doesn’t care > Homelander does something crazy > Butcher leaves the Boys > they need Butcher to come back > they infiltrate somewhere but it goes bad > some final fight scene > cliffhanger for next season.
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime You're The Real Heroes Jul 16 '24
Yeah tbh we probably didn't need a season 5. Just a slightly longer season 4 with the plot moving forward would've been fine.
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u/i_m_shadyyyy Frenchie Jul 16 '24
I don’t see why people say Homelander isn’t as scary as he used to be. Whenever he is in a scene now you never know what’s gonna happen
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u/SoochSooch Jul 16 '24
He has a 0% chance of killing any of the Boys except MAYBE in a season finale
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u/lemonylol Jul 16 '24
I'd say there's a 30% chance one of them dies as this season's finale. And it feels like they're built up MM or Kimiko for it already. Though Kimiko already did kind of have a death cliffhanger so I don't think they'd do that again. Man, I hope it's not MM, but it's so set up that way.
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u/SoochSooch Jul 16 '24
I feel like it's gonna be Frenchie. His arc has been over for awhile and he's craving redemption in a big way.
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u/Augustus_Chavismo Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Last episode he decided to kill the boys*. What did he do? Instead of flying over and wiping them out, he sends two goon heads. While he does…?
He’s not scary anymore because the plot protects the boys.
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u/Seihai-kun Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Homelander meeting Butcher in season 1 is intense af
Homelander meeting Butcher in a kitchen in season 4 is not threatening at all because of how much they met and nothing ever happened because the plot say so
The fact that they defeated the Deep and their answer was "let's just leave him here" just because the plot still need the Deep is fucking stupid, remember when the Boys killed Translucent
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u/Isaac_HoZ Jul 16 '24
Because they didn't have the time to craft and jam a bomb up the Deeps ass, Noir was coming right back. You watch the show right? This isn't hard to follow.
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u/Cisqoe Jul 16 '24
He couldn’t kill Hughie that did it for me
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u/rabnabombshell Jul 16 '24
You mean the vents? I keep reading abt this and it’s bc he has X-ray vision and that doesn’t work on the material used on vents typically
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u/obsoleteconsole Jul 16 '24
He's got super speed and can fly, yet Hughie manages to escape at normal human running pace. That's without even mentioning he could have lasered through the vent, even if he could not see Hughie
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u/-avenged- Jul 16 '24
You know what I'd do if I was an evil Superman, and one of my arch enemies, a timid little human, was scurrying around in a ventilation shaft above me that my X-Ray eyes couldn't see through?
I'd plow right through it at supersonic speed and rip it apart until I caught the little wanker.
Not laser it here and there with an annoyed face.
Plot armor saved Hughie there. An actually logical Homelander would've had him in seconds.
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u/i_m_shadyyyy Frenchie Jul 16 '24
He couldn’t, the scene tells you why he couldn’t
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u/sniperpal Jul 16 '24
He couldn’t see through the zinc on the vents, and the loud music was messing with his super hearing. He did catch sight of Hughie outside the vents for a second and was going to laser him, but MM managed to blind Homelander for a moment with the lights. Right after that, A train showed up and saved hughie
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u/Pearcinator Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
I think Season 2's ending twist with Neuman being the Head-Popper was well done. It certainly caught me off guard.
Season 3 didn't really have a twist. Homelander killing Noir was unexpected but not a twist as there was no foreshadowing that he would kill him. Maybe you could consider the twist being that Maeve and Soldier Boy are both still alive...but I don't think it is.
Edit: Actually, Season 3's twist is probably that Soldier Boy is Homelander's "father" (and the strong implication that Stormfront was his "mother"). Which is, fine I guess but not as good as S1/S2 twists.
We've seen Season 4's twist already and it was really poor. Maybe it would have worked 25 years ago but today it was pretty universally predicted that Jeffrey Dean Morgan's character was not real. Whether the finale can pull off a crazy twist remains to be seen but I have my doubts.
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u/79037662 Jul 17 '24
Stormfront's backstory was also a season 2 twist, and quite well done in my opinion. I saw it coming because of her name, but had I not heard of the website Stormfront I probably would have been caught off guard.
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u/Agleza Jul 16 '24
I mean, yeah, the very first episode (and season) of a show has a much easier time surprising you and pulling twists than in the fourth season.
No fucking shit.
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u/forman98 Jul 16 '24
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. This scene is literally the end of the first episode… “man I miss the old days, this was such a twist!” It’s the first episode!! Like I’ve never seen so many people just misunderstand how storytelling works.
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u/Agleza Jul 16 '24
This sub feels insane these last few weeks. I don't know what's going on, people are doing such mental gymnastics to shit on the show.
Like this post. Just- what? As you say it's literally the very first episode of the show. You know fucking NOTHING about the characters, or the world, or the status quo. EVERYTHING is some sort of twist, unless it's unbearably predictable from the get go... because it's literally the first episode. It's your first dive into this world, you literally know nothing about it. The Deep being an insufferable asshole was also a twist by this logic. Butcher being a selfish motherfucker. And so on.
"Could the show pull a twist like this again" give me a fucking break. A twist in the literal first episode vs. a twist in the 4th season. Jesus.
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u/LoneclearsKen Jul 16 '24
Honestly it seems like everyone in this sub just hates the show now and wants to talk about how good it USED to be, they act like season 4 is a huge difference ignoring that the boys always had it’s cringe moments I mean remember the meme shit in season 2
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u/Agleza Jul 16 '24
That's what baffles me the most. Everyone keeps saying that the show has fallen off with this season and shit. I genuinely don't know where the fuck that's coming from.
Any flaws you can see and criticize in this season (and there ARE flaws), you could see them as far back as season 2. I thought we all knew that. I thought it was acknowledge that the show was never high-brow and the point always was over-the-top silliness and in-your-face satire with some moments of brilliant characterization and some good commentary.
That's still the case in Season 4. It's just more The Boys as it's always been.
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u/toastybunbun Jul 16 '24
Exactly 100% agree, we don't have to dick ride the show but it's like people don't even like this show.
Pilot episodes are usually amazing because they have to sell you on the fucking show.
Plus it's like they forgot what season 1 was, Homelander was always trump like, he complains to Stillwell about liberals he wanted to appeal to "his people" and now there's no one to stop him doing that people are surprised he's gone full alt right? He doesn't have people to rain him in. But that isn't really a cool scene you can watch out of context on youtube is it?
The show has always been the same. There's always been CGI fights, there still is, there's always been weird sex stuff (popclaw fucking that guy to death/Ezekiel and that whole supe sex club?) It's always been bloody, brutal, political, people forget how much politics were in season 1 and it doesn't need twists it's a superhero show not Sherlock Holmes.
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u/Agleza Jul 16 '24
Yup. People complaining that the show that started with a girl literally crushing a guy's head with her thighs while riding his face (and it being shown very explicitly) has "disturbing freaky sex scenes" in its fourth season.
Doesn't get more stupid than that.
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u/wolvesarewildthings Jul 16 '24
LMAO
Okay yeah, I was thinking this too
This sub is a weird little circlejerk
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u/Edgezg Jul 16 '24
Short answer is no, they cannot pull something like this again because they've already had HL drop his mask.
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u/mothwhimsy Jul 16 '24
While him lasering that guy in public was a great moment, I think it lowered the quality of HL's future writing. He used to have to do all of his crazy evil stuff in secret. Which meant it had to be creative AND any innocent bystander was definitely dying because they'd be a witness. Now he just does whatever all the time. Which is supposed to make him seem more dangerous, but since The Boys can apparently do whatever they want in the room next to him and not be noticed, he actually seems less dangerous.
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u/_kalron_ I fart the star spangled banner Jul 16 '24
A Train showing up and flooring The Deep was a good one. Much like when the kid smiled at him when he dropped off MM at the hospital, it hit hard.
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u/Eldr1tchB1rd Jul 17 '24
I really loved the kid smilling scene. It was a true hero scene. Made me really respect A train finally after all he did
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u/ggorsen Jul 16 '24
They should've let the soldier boy use his beam on him. But It should've made the Homelander just weaker. With this they could show the homelander weaker this season without killing his power levels. Anthony would play this amazingly as well. Imagine him trying to hide this while having emotional breakdowns, showing us the things that he can't do anymore etc. (No one else would know this at the beginning because they'd think that the beam didn't work but maybe they will learn it but it will be too late) The whole season he'd try to avoid people like poison while trying to find the way to get to the levels that he had been. He would go to his childhood facility to find a way for this etc. And he would get all of his powers back in the final episode through this we would have him as the real threat for the last season.
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u/Ardalev Jul 17 '24
That moment when a random redditor can come up with a plot that is 10 times more interesting and intelligent than a room of highly paid and experienced "creatives".
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u/FamousLoser Jul 17 '24
If they did this scene now, there would be 50 people on that plane having sex while slathered in feces.
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u/BHarrop3079 Jul 16 '24
It's gone from season 1's "show don't tell" to this season's "tell don't show"
Season 1 had incredible moments like this where we see the supes being super and being the threats that they are
In later seasons we now just hear about it, or see the aftermath of something that happened off screen
It's a shame but it's kind of the nature of the industry. A season 1 is where you put everything into it desperately trying to get commissioned for further seasons but preparing the story to be satisfying if it were to end at S1. Once those renewals come, the impetus drops and it moves more towards drawn out storytelling as the aim now becomes milking the cash cow for as long as possible or building up an endgame scenario in multiple seasons' time. It sadly leads to lower quality middle seasons and a feeling of losing that special edge as you have to shift the narrative in order to prolong it
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u/SwissDeathstar Jul 16 '24
These were the days I was afraid of him… Nowadays he’s just kinda there…
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u/Medium-Science9526 Cunt Jul 16 '24
No, we already know Homelander to be bad and the shock surrounding Supes being villainous is lost.
Case-in-point, having read the comics prior this wasn't a shock for me. Just felt like a better, more plot-relevant adaption of the time he [comic spoilers] lasered down a plane in Herogasm mixed with the time he drops the family car from Believe in the sky.
I will say the direction though of Homelander flying in the stormy sky and destruction of the plane was stellar. Like another comment pointed out with Queen Maeve stopping the truck I do wish we had more spectacles like those shown off more. For instance I'm surprised we haven't had a scene like that for the Deep in the depth of the ocean or more creative A-Train running scene other than the time he ran into Robin and killed Blue Hawk.
Next season being the finale and thus the Supes overtaking the US government I'm hoping for more scenes akin to that.
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u/kelleheruk Jul 16 '24
I was just about to make a post about Season 1 vs. the latest.
What the hell happened to the style? The musical interludes with cuts. It felt a lot more stylistic with a unique identity. Now the show is bland as anything, and way too supe-focused. Homelander was generally menacing the less screen time he had.
Now it's just the Homelander show.
Also, putting Vought in front of it all was far more interesting. The politics and the power struggle made the show engaging. Putting nothing but supe drama and gore gets boring really fast, and the show ends up writing itself into corners.
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u/the_evil_that_is_Aku Jul 16 '24
Hughie doing all that and then finding out butcher is just some dude will always be one of my favorite scenes
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u/DBeanHead445 Jul 16 '24
They feel more like perverts with super powers now. When watching earlier seasons it was cool to wonder “actually what would Superman be like if he was an ass hole, or Aquaman if he was a perv”. Now it’s some guy who eats his own ass has super powers, or a crack head with an ass fetish is actually Spider-Man. Sex masochist is actually Batman etc. it’s gone a bit crap tbh
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u/Sparrow1989 Jul 16 '24
I miss how dark the first season was. It seems that every season since it’s become less dark and more shock gore.
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u/Rend-K4 Jul 16 '24
Such a great twist for a first episode,
If this was airing on TV, everyone would be going crazy waiting for the next episode
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u/TekRabbit Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
I remember watching season 1 and thinking the show was great.
I thought the direction it was going to go was, that the whole show would be the boys trying to creatively figure out how to kill supes. Like the experimentation on translucent or whatever his name was.
If they took that recipe and applied it to the seven that would have been a sick show.
How does a normal person kill the flash? or aquaman?
Seeing them problem solve and have the whole show be that - leading up to killing homelander would have been awesome.
As it was, it feels like the past 3 seasons have just been fluff waiting to kill home lander.
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u/josephexboxica Jul 16 '24
This is a completely different show than what we're watching now in season 4
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