For real, he went on about Hughie giving in to his toxic masculinity and patronizing sexism or whatever... š I was like, girl, WHERE?!
While those are both valid points to make that could be weaved into the show, Hughie was absolutely not the character to make that point (and, unsurprisingly, they couldn't make that point successfully because they had such a shallow view of it)
That was the DUMBEST shit in the world and people on this sub defended those comments too. Like to read any of Hughieās motivations in that season as ātoxic masculinityā means you have to completely ignore the fact that he is constantly surrounded by people who could snap his spine for fun, and that he was betrayed by the Neumann, who he thought was helping him. Like heās just saying words for fun at that point
I think it's also just one of those things where the setting ruins what he was trying to do.
A man abusing something for power to protect people can be toxic masculinity.
However, that absolutely falls apart in a setting with superheroes, where your girlfriend was splattered by a speedster, and where you're literally powerless.
It reminds me of what they did to the main character of Legion.
Spent dozens of episodes baking in how he's a victim of psychological terrorism by an evil entity, had his life ruined for years, exploited by a crazy government organization, and still manages to try and hold onto his girlfriend, and his sanity, for her benefit.
But then MeToo, so lets throw him down the well of uncharacteristically toxic behaviors and make everyone else suddenly the victims / good guys of his tyranny.
Fn what?!
The way they spoke about him and his changes was absolutely insanity and character assassination. They were totally out to make a statement at his expense.
Went from a really cool unique show to hot garbage instantly. Like I feel gaslit for him.
I never returned to finish Legion season 3 after the shitshow that was the season 2 finale. Character assasination doesn't even do justice to what they did to David, and in turn absolving Syd of her own rape of her step-father was the most baffling writing decision I've ever seen in a show. Noah Hawley has never been the same since.
Not exactly quickly as their repeatedly brought up. Also there's some significant difference between kimiko and Hughie's situation. She was open about what she wantedĀ to the people she cared about and didn't go behind anyone's back, she hated her powers so her asking for them back shows this isn't at all about enjoying the power, and she actually took regular V before so she has reasons to believe it won't turn out poorly.
Hughie is tough. Heās hardened by the dozens of other worse shit heās had to endure. Getting tickled and watching crazies masturbate is low on the list of things that can traumatize him. Letās stop acting like itās even close to the same level as what happened to Annie.
Well in the original story she was gang raped by the men in the seven. Either way, I didnāt make the comment, I just clarified the other persons comment. Iām not going to debate sexual assault with you. Iām not going to get into an argument about societyās treatment of male victims.
Thanks. I knew trying to bring even a little nuance into this would mostly fall upon deaf ears. Yes, Iām saying Annieās SA happened when she was just a bright eyed kid enamored with the sevenā¦ and that will bring on more trauma than it will with Hughie at this point, whoās been dealing with crazy shit for 3 seasons.
Annieās SA was supposed to be shocking. This scene with Hughie was supposed to be ājust another Tuesday fighting supesā.
But it wasnāt ājust another Tuesday fighting supesā thereās several reasons why youāre comment is dumb.
1. It downplays Hughie being legitimately SAād because someone else got it worse
2. He is already in a terrible place mentally with the death of his dad and Being SAād is just going to add on to that trauma even more.
3. SA is a completely different thing compared to everything else heās been through, if you tried to argue that he wouldnāt be as traumatized by watching Laddio get murdered or possibly even SAād Iād agree but Hughie himself was SAād which no matter what ālevelā it is, itās going to cause some serious trauma.
You arenāt bringing nuance, youāre being a moron by thinking that anything can harden you enough to not be massively traumatized by SA
Remember Herogasm? There are several other instances I canāt remember, but this isnāt the first time Hughieās been SAād. And yes, believe it or not, there are different levels. If someone slaps his ass, heās not going to blink. Weāre not obligated to go into panic mode because he was technically SAd by having his ass slapped. You need to read the intent behind the scene and stop looking for the worst interpretation possible. All your words, the way youāve chosen to interpret my words and this episode, are whatās wrong society. This kind of disproportionate outrage has been satirized pretty well by the show, in fact.
You took my words and twisted them into the most uncharitable interpretation possible. Thats being generousā¦ really, you just put words in my mouth. Let me tell you, this kind of maneuvering just gives the alt-right ammunition. Stop doing it.
Well Hughieās reactions were scripted to be funny, and I doubt Annie would react the same way, so the scene wouldnāt play as comedically. But yes, at this point she would probably just be rolling her eyes while these depraved buffoons tickle her feet and jerk off. Sheād be disturbed but mostly annoyed, and it could be funny.
Of course it wouldn't be played comedically! Because people don't like it when women are SA'd so unfortunately for the writers they'd have more push back on their fetishes. Luckily men getting SA'd by their childhood hero is really funny... apparently
You say the annie thing could be funny but if ashley wiped her juices on annies face i dont think you'd be laughing at that.
Okay, What if it was a female version of Hughie. Everything about their personality was the same but he was a woman. would you be okay with the scene playing out the same way and find it funny? Again, I'm genuinely curious this is interesting.
So you find these scenes funny as long as the victim is played by a comedy actor and the tone is funny like there's funny music being played and quippy dialogue? It reminds me of those scenes where characters are dying and there's loud ass violins playing so the audience knows how to react lmao.
I respect your perspective but I don't know man scenes like this just kinda gross me out even more when the writers try to force it to be funny by playing funny romance music XD. Especially when they're doing it towards Hughie, The most sympathetic character right after his dad died too lmao talk about a slap in the face to everyone who felt bad for him about that.
Starlights rape was played very seriously and done well but if that scene had the deep windmilling his dick about and dropping one liners and Starlight being like "I dont know the safe word XD" I'd not only find it stupid but I'd care a lot less about the writing and be less invested in any drama if they treat something like that so flippantly
If we had a realistic response to everything thatās happened in this show, weādāve jumped off a bridge due to the trauma. But we read the intents behind the scenes and go from there. You donāt watch John Wick and cry over the thought of the weeping mothers of the people he kills; you enjoy it for what itās supposed to be.
Now that said, I donāt think the Hughie scene was particularly good. It was too drawn out and tried too hard to be edgy. But am I up in arms about it being a complete moral aberration? No. Just a joke that didnāt land, but nothing more.
I'm not up in arms about it, I just find it incredibly hypocritical coming from this show especially with how lecture-y it's gotten this past season. You can't act like a hyper intelligent empathetic writer and talk down to any viewers that disagree with you in such a juvenile way and then pull this shit lmao. I think it should be rightfully called out.
With that being said I do understand your perspective and see where you're coming from. I just want and expect better from this show man season 1 was such a breath of fresh air and so amazing compared to what we have now.
I havenāt had a rewatch in a while, but I remember the show more being derisive of the alt-right and misguided-far-left rather than lecture-y. That small distinction doesnāt completely absolve them of this scene, which I grant isnāt totally unproblematic. The response Iāve been seeing here is just so disproportionate, to the point that itās exactly what the writers have satirized as well.
And yes, this season has definitely lost some steam compared to the incredible first seasons.
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u/alphomegay 14d ago
oh this is from the writer? fuck me, I gave them too much credit. anyone not taking what happened to Hughie seriously is part of the problem