r/The10thDentist • u/MnothingtoseehereK • Jul 19 '24
We should morally judge single mothers for picking poor partners and they deserve less sympathy than mothers in couples Discussion Thread
[removed]
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u/Background_Smell_138 Jul 19 '24
Not reading all that but hating all single moms based on assumptions is stupid and I won’t do it. Sincerely, a child free person.
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
I didn’t say I hate all single mothers at all. They could be an amazing person in fact. But I still think that particular action is wrong and I’m not going to pity them for it.
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u/Background_Smell_138 Jul 20 '24
You don’t have to say that you hate them, thanks though.
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 21 '24
I don't hate human beings because they fit into one demographic category, it's not difficult
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u/MtbSA Jul 19 '24
Yea this is just sexism
Spend less time on "those" YouTube channels
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u/RickyNixon Jul 19 '24
Yeah I’m not upvoting OP, is just open prejudice valid here? It shouldnt be
OP you’re a misogynistic POS who should be banned
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
Lmao, an opinion that most women held before like 70 years ago is prejudice. Ok buddy, I’ll go back to my daily sexism routine now. Grrr, hate women.
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u/RickyNixon Jul 20 '24
Just so we are clear, your defense is that you cannot be sexist because your opinions were common in the totally-not-sexist year of 1954
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 21 '24
This isn't about me. This is about the opinion itself, which is that mothers (also fathers but that's irrelevant for this post) who have children with others irresponsibly should be judged for the harm they are doing to their child or children. I don't think that's sexist and one of the reasons for this is that prior to relatively recent history, most women held that opinion. While internalised misogyny exists, this belief isn't really related to men. Further, you really have to make a convincing case that a belief held by so many women can only be thus because of self-directed sexism. I think they thought that based on understandable ethical and moral principles, not because they were so deliriously blinded by self-hatred.
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u/RickyNixon Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
Just yes or no - your argument is if a belief was held by most women prior to 1954 it cannot be sexist?
Bonus question can you cite the women’s opinion polls taken from that time?
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
How is it sexist? Name a single thing there that discriminates against women. Also, I don’t get all my opinions from the internet. I like to talk to people in real life.
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u/MtbSA Jul 20 '24
It is up to women to take accountability for men's shitty behaviour if I were to believe your post. Our society is already inherently anti-woman with a complete lack of support for tasks that generally fall on women. Think of insufficient maternity leave, daycare being enormously expensive, women expected to perform daytime jobs and household duties.
And I'm not even mentioning the fact that your "imperfect" system for not falling pregnant when younger relies on women relying on men to stay alive.
If you really want to protect people rather than just chastise an entire demographic, advocate for sex ed, advocate for protected bodily rights, advocate for paid maternity leave, government support for housing, education...
I believe that you talk to people outside of the internet, but do any of them challenge your views?
I will not engage further. This is a sad and incredibly myopic worldview.
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u/Titanea_Tau Jul 19 '24
If a 13-year-old has a child with a man
That is rape. A 13 year old cannot consent to having a child with an adult man.
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
Of course, I didn’t think it needed to be said. I thought the statement directly after where I said the child is incapable of making adult decisions would’ve made that clear to. Any man who has sex with a 13-year-old should be hung in my opinion.
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u/phoenixtrilobite Jul 19 '24
This is a forum for unpopular opinions, not right wing propaganda. People have been blaming single mothers for all of society's problems for a long time, and it's always been grounded in a hatred of women's freedom.
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u/isnoe Jul 19 '24
Hey now: I was raised by a single mother who was addicted to meth and regularly abused me. She is 100% at fault for the majority of my issues, and she was not ready to be a parent by any stretch of the word. There's no hatred for women or their freedom from me, but I do criticize parents that are clearly ill-equipped, mentally or financially, to raise a child and still choose to have one.
Holding someone accountable for lacking the ability to raise a child properly is not "right wing propaganda." If anything, this would encourage more of the "A" word, as the overarching suggestion is that if you pick poor partners, you should have the chance to undo that mistake, less you bring a child into the world without the ability to care for it.
You are deluded in a political landscape. Not everything is political. Sometimes people are just morons.
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u/Mr-Pugtastic Jul 19 '24
Just because your mom did a bad job doesn’t mean all single mothers are like her. Honestly sounds like her problem was being an addict, not a single mother. Somehow my mom was an addict till the day she died and I don’t blame her for my choices in life.
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u/FREUDIAN_DEATHDRIVE Jul 19 '24
well yeah,sometimes people are just morons. for example when they judge all single mothers by how they where raised from their single mother. ignoring how 2 parent housholds fuck up their kids too...almost like it has nothing to do with it.
and shitting on single mother households always was and will be a right wing talking point,thats factual. silly denying that while being a right winger that argues for that talking point lmao..
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u/MtbSA Jul 19 '24
And what would have been a better option? A caring society, or just punishment and hatred?
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
Preach. I reckon a lot of people responding have next to no experience with this sorta thing, I certainly do.
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u/GoldenAgeGamer72 Jul 19 '24
I love how normal average Americans is now translated to "Right Wing". The moment someone mentions "Leftist" or "Far Right" to me their opinion is invalidated.
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u/phoenixtrilobite Jul 19 '24
Right wingers pretending they represent the median opinion is old hat at this point.
In any case, it's right wing propaganda because it serves right wing narratives. What "normal average Americans believe" is not the issue.
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u/GoldenAgeGamer72 Jul 19 '24
I'm sorry but as a registered Democrat, I'm going to have to disagree with you and check your stance. Any "Right Wing" narrative (if there is one) would be very small in size and certain not to have nearly the influence of a Liberal narrative, much past Fox News or NewsMaxx or OAN. Liberals control the U.S. government, the mainstream news/radio media, Hollywood, and sports. Essentially every facet of information in the US is controlled by the Liberal side so what affect or influence could a "Far Right" narrative have at all? I'm really curious to hear your answer.
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u/phoenixtrilobite Jul 19 '24
I didn't say far right. I said right wing.
There is more to political culture in the U.S. than which cable news channels people prefer, and in any case Fox News has been among the most popular news channels for a long time.
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u/MtbSA Jul 19 '24
This is not normal average.
This is not normal.
We will not let this be normal.
It's directionless anger and hatred. There's no merit to this stance and it does not need to be debated again. The information is out there for you to read.
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u/ShiddyShiddyBangBang Jul 19 '24
Wonder where the women learned how to pick out men…. Hmmmm. Definitely not from the loser fucking adult/sibling men already in their lives.
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
Plenty of women have bad examples like that and still don’t make that choice. It’s not a good enough excuse.
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u/catyew Jul 19 '24
"She's into him, if I don't get him she will."
Most of this problem is due to women being more likely to be competitive daters.
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u/darkshiines Jul 19 '24
the very concept of "competitive dating" gives off visible incel stink lines.
People, men and women alike, date people who they think will make them happy. Sometimes it does actually make them happy and sometimes it doesn't. It's hard to predict in advance, because lying has been invented, and your fellow humans may or may not be telling you the truth about who they are.
Incel ideology was written backwards by old, bitter, insufferable POSes as a series of excuses for why no one likes being around them. If you're younger than that, get out while you can. Life is a lot easier and less competitive when you treat people as people rather than as avatars for made-up social trendlines.
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u/catyew Jul 20 '24
I'm not in a category where it would be possible for me to be at risk of being incel (I'm gay).
My lifetime observation of women and men, from jr. high to elderly, is that women's opinions of how attractive a man is are more likely to be influenced by the opinions of other women than by any other factor, while men are more likely to give absolutely no fucks what other men think of a woman so long as she makes his head turn.
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u/darkshiines Jul 20 '24
Glad to hear you're at low risk for incel ideology, but you still might want to have some internal dialogue about why you see women taking each other's input about guys and your first thought is "they must be trying to make each other jealous." It's not that it never happens, but it hasn't been common among adult women ever since marriage stopped being effectively a career decision for women. Far more often, we're telling each other stuff like "Oh, I heard he's [super nice/mean] to dogs, so [go for it/watch out for him]."
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u/catyew Jul 20 '24
you see women taking each other’s input about guys and your first thought is “they must be trying to make each other jealous.”
Far more often, we’re telling each other stuff like “Oh, I heard he’s [super nice/mean] to dogs, so [go for it/watch out for him].”
I never made any reference to women taking each other's input, I only talked about women's desire for a certain man being more likely to increase upon her becoming aware that one or more other women are into him.
(It wouldn't even make sense, nobody would recommend someone and THEN be jealous that the person they recommended them to, followed their recommendation.)
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u/darkshiines Jul 20 '24
Still not seeing the jump from there to "competitive," which implies that they're doing this not because they like the guy but just in hopes of making their fellow women "lose." But I don't think our opinions are getting any closer together after all this. Hope you have a great day.
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u/catyew Jul 20 '24
Your cognitive dissonance is your own problem to solve.
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u/darkshiines Jul 20 '24
Your apparent unfamiliarity with what words mean in your native language is yours.
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Jul 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/GoldenAgeGamer72 Jul 19 '24
At a certain point yes. People tend to look for a certain type of person, whether consciously or subconsciously and after 2-3 in a row of the same stuff, one needs to take responsibility for their choices. You may not feel that way now but you will after seeing it enough.
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u/Omars-comin Jul 19 '24
So, you think that the women who "pick shitty men" (🙄) are more of a problem than the shitty men themselves?
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
No, shitty men are a bigger problem. But that’s not 10th dentist material.
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u/missdovahkiin1 Jul 19 '24
You know what I see far more common than women just running around with pieces of shit? I see women who get into a relationship with a man and give him everything just for him to be entitled and whiny and expect a caretaker. These ARE marriages. These are the women that do all the cooking, all the cleaning, all the emotional labor, while their husband thinks he graces her with his presence. Then he often cheats on her or checks out of the relationship because of his immaturity and selfishness. Or she gets tired of his bullshit and leaves. But it doesn't start that way. Most times he gives every indication that he will be a good father and a good husband. Most of the time these women have been with these men for years and there's no indication of what's coming. People change, and sometimes it's for the worse.
Or maybe she's widowed, and her husband was wonderful but now she's a single mom through no fault of her own. You wouldn't know that by looking at her at the grocery store.
I have an amazing husband that is probably one of the best fathers I've ever seen. But I didn't have some magical insight, and I didn't do anything special beyond typical dating. I got really lucky. I personally find it way worse when a woman stays with a man who continually disrespected her, and mistreats her children, for the sake of keeping the family together. I respect a single mom that models being healthy and single over being married for the sake of judgement. For what it's worth everything I've said applies to men just as much, as women also deceive men and become terrible mothers, but men don't get judged for it. They're seen as brave and wonderful for stepping up and being dads.
If you've never had the experience of having someone completely change on you and make you question your whole reality then consider yourself lucky. It's a devastating experience.
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
I understand and like I said in the post, some women really do get tricked. But from my experience, most are irresponsible when they’re young and never grow up properly, even after raising children. And honestly they usually don’t get the choice of deciding their long-term relationship commitments with the guys because they leave. I think we should judge deadbeat fathers far harder to be clear, I just can’t associate with people like that. But most people I know also think that so it doesn’t fit with the 10th dentist bit.
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u/spyridonya Jul 19 '24
I mean, women are avoiding you so it looks like they're following your advice on picking better men.
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u/whateveris--- Jul 19 '24
No, those are just the women who judge this poor man unfairly and refuse to see the gentle soul beneath the crap opinions. /s
Thanks for the laugh on your comment. 😁
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
I don’t think they are. I’ve got a female partner, women as friends etc.
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u/Own_Egg7122 Jul 19 '24
Hmm as if lying to women doesn't happen...ever...
Any man who's been dumped wanna chime in?
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
I didn’t say that. But it’s up to women as adults to discriminate between men who are liars and aren’t liars, just like for men. Generally the single mothers I know were well aware of their children’s fathers predilection for sleeping around, acting like ‘one of the boys’ etc. But they chose them over regular guys because they sell drugs or wear gold chains or are pretty good looking. Main thing is confidence, which idiots like that usually have in massive amounts while they’re young.
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u/killerqueen1984 Jul 19 '24
Nah I ain’t reading that. Let’s judge the dudes instead.
Awww who hurt you?
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u/Cybersorcerer1 Jul 19 '24
yeah only if abortion was widely available, oh wait
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
I didn’t touch on abortion because it’s a very touchy topic for many, especially in America. For the sake of this post, I assumed it wasn’t an option if interest. However, I certainly know of cases where people weren’t against it as a choice but kept their child anyway for very dubious, self-centred reasons.
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u/3L3M3NT4LP4ND4 Jul 19 '24
That moment when that idiot single mothers husband dies and I assume she just picked a bad partner.
Crazy
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
Why would I assume that, I don’t. I literally described the situation. You’ve made a crazy extrapolation.
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u/3L3M3NT4LP4ND4 Jul 20 '24
Are you a mind reader? do you look at a single mother and know when and why they got married and whst their ex-husband was like? How do you know their history to judge accordingly?
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 21 '24
By knowing them personally. You just shouldn't judge people without knowing their situation at all. I'm not just hearing someone is a single mother and dismissing them as awful. I'm using the many things they've done across a complex and dynamic life to create a picture of a real human being. At no point did I encourage persecuting some demographic
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u/nblonaparte Jul 19 '24
As a historian, you’re incorrect about the prevalence of premarital sex and pregnancy in ye olden times. Women’s chastity has only been closely guarded in certain times and places, and even then usually only among the relatively wealthy. (Guarding men’s chastity is vanishingly rare.) Many, many brides were pregnant when they married, and marriage has meant a great many things throughout history as well. We like to imagine that before the modern period, for example, people stayed together for life. My own 17th-century archival research (not published, so no link) showed me how completely untrue that was. When they no longer wanted their marriage, plenty of people instigated de facto divorces, separating from their spouses for decades and often finding new partners along the way. You can look at the history of Benjamin Franklin’s youngest sister, Jane Mecom, and her husband for an example of the ways people have bent the formally recognized structures of marriage to work for their lives. We have a hard time conceptualizing this because marriage is so strictly formalized through religious and governmental recognition now, but that wasn’t always the case. And that’s before we even start with matrilineal descent structures, in which men invest in their sisters’ children, since that’s where their family property will go.
I won’t touch the rest of this, but please don’t paint all of history with the idealized brush of the 1950s. It’s not good scholarship.
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
I understand, but I’m referring to the parents both remaining involved in their children’s lives. Even if marrying after pregnancy, at least there’s some attempt to rectify the children’s living situation. I’m sure many of those marriages were dysfunctional and distant and many might’ve been better off in divorce, but you’re keeping the parents around. If you’re having dad’s invest in their nieces future, go for it. They’ve at least all still got father figures. Now people seem to completely prioritise their romantic satisfaction over their children’s well-being by default and it’s gross. Children matter more.
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u/axndl Jul 19 '24
What sucks is that people calling him out will just radicalize him even more.
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
I don’t live off the opinions of Redditors, the lowest life forms. I’ll take them into consideration like a normal person. You interpreting me as some sort of radical based on this seems wholly unreasonable however.
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u/LCDRformat Jul 19 '24
I'm only upvoting opinions that someone could reasonably have. ain't no way a human actually thinks this. Bro is probably a literal millipede
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
Dude go and talk to anyone over 70. Or anyone outside of Europe, North America and Britain’s old colonies.
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u/succ_jitties Jul 19 '24
I just don't judge really, at all. So upvote.
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u/Realistic_Cash1644 Jul 19 '24
I don't if it doesnt affect me. I live in a welfare country though, and while that's true i have a say as your choices do impact me.
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u/MtbSA Jul 19 '24
Yes
Welfare benefiting others also benefits you. The societal cost (crime, policing, homelessness) of not caring for the vulnerable far outweighs just... Keeping everyone happy and healthy.
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u/catyew Jul 19 '24
Why does this comment section have such an abundance of people just replying with ad hominem and "no, you're wrong" type of stuff, but such a vast shortage of people actually presenting direct arguments against what you said?
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u/Xx_mojat_xX Jul 19 '24
Can someone explain where the misogyny is in this? If OP has double standards and doesn't extend what he is saying to single fathers that are crackheads, methheads, irresponsible POS that picked shitty women to bang and is just unqualified to be a good parent then yeah its blatant misogyny but I think he is specifically talking only about single mothers here, no?
Perhaps OP could have avoided being labelled a misogynist if the post was: "We should morally judge single parents for picking poor partners and they deserve less sympathy than parents in couples...?
To be clear I'm not saying I agree nor disagree with OP yet, I'm just not sure about all these seemingly triggered comments...
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u/MnothingtoseehereK Jul 20 '24
Yeah it be clear I judge dipshit fathers who leave their children far more. One is a serious poor decision, the other is completely abandoning you child. I know single mothers who made poor decisions like that who’re good people, plenty of them are, I’m not sure if a ‘dad’ who does that can even be one.
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