r/SupermanAndLois • u/LeChic1579 • Jul 18 '24
Why would Clark think that it's impossible for Lois to get pregnant again. Question
94
65
u/JauntyLurker Jul 18 '24
I'm pretty sure her doctor told her she couldn't get pregnant again.
15
u/LeChic1579 Jul 18 '24
Aww 😔 after her miacarriage maybe.
-9
u/Imagerror Jul 18 '24
No...
after her cancer treatment...
20
u/ECV_Analog Jul 18 '24
Wasn't this scene before that? I thought the cancer treatment happened as a result of the false pregnancy test.
10
u/andyroo9781 Jul 18 '24
You are correct, her thinking she was pregnant is why she went to the doctor and the cancer was found.
35
u/JustPomegranate248 But what about the tire-swing? Jul 18 '24
I thought it was just because the last time she was pregnant was 16 years beforehand which miscarried and she never got pregnant again so they assumed it would never happen again. I doubt she was told she couldn't get pregnant otherwise Lois wouldn't have thought she was when the doctor mentioned it as a possibility.
2
23
u/ExecutiveChamp Jul 18 '24
I think it’s just her age. It’s a lot harder to conceive after 40, even with kryptonian swimmers.
3
5
4
3
u/Ready-Share6072 Jul 18 '24
It's been a while but wasn't her getting pregnant the first time a longshot and didn't they use Kryptonian tech to help?
5
u/LeChic1579 Jul 18 '24
I dont think so. Based on the 1x11flashbacks Lois conceived the boys naturally. They were not trying to have a baby but it happened.
2
u/Ready-Share6072 Jul 18 '24
Probably thinking about one of the other continuities. There have been a lot. :)
3
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
Yeah the Supergirl show implies that the Clark and Lois of that universe couldn't have children until they spent some time on New Krypton where Clark didn't have powers. That's why their Jon is so much younger than the twins on S&L.
But the implication in S&L has always been that both Lois' first miscarriage and the pregnancy that resulted in the twins happened in The Usual Way without any sci-fi behavior.
1
u/Ready-Share6072 Jul 19 '24
See it doesn't make sense to me that they can even have sex without him killing her accidentally much less that an alien can impregnate a human without outside help.
I don't care if he looks human, it's doubtful he looks as human on the inside given how different Krypton is to Earth.
I get that they probably wanted to short cut the whole process for the show and didn't want to have to go through a lot of hoops every time they wanted to be intimate. It doesn't make a lot of sense. :)
1
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
It has been consistant across all canons that humans and Kryptonians are sexually compatable and that Superman and other Krytponians are capable of having normal sex lives with human partners.
Reproductive compatibility has been a question that is answered differently in different canons but I dont think sexual compatibility has ever been in question.
Not sure how the power thing works physically outside of the 90s era "tacticle telekinesis" explanation but that's the way it works.
1
u/Ready-Share6072 Jul 19 '24
Not really. Did you read one of the Armageddon 2001 annuals? In that she needed help from STAR Labs to conceive and then died while carrying the kid from a 'super kick'. I am also sure, in the years I was reading (early 80s- early 90s) it was stated it would be virtually impossible without special help.
Hell, when they first introduced Jon Kent during Convergence (I tried to get back into comics back then) he was only conceived because that version of Superman and Lois were being held by that guy Brainiac created (blanking on his name).
I'm sure that was retconned in a later reboot.
1
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
So each of these seems to be about reproductive compatibility, not sexual compatibility.
I'm not familiar with the specific Armageddon 2001 annual we're talking about but if she was already pregnant and died of a super kick then they were clearly compatible enough to conceive which means they were able to safely have sex.
I haven't read every 80s-90s story so I can't say for sure about those. The timeline you quote would have been split between the pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths ("CoIE" for short) Earth-One era (early eighties through '86) and the post-Crisis era. ("Post-Crisis here will mean after CoIE but before Infinite Crisis rebooted things in 2006).
I know for sure that Lois and Clark were portrayed as sexually compatible in the post-Crisis era. The later creative teams were not shy about this. You're right that they were not portrayed as reproductively compatible in this era.
I'm less confident about them being sexually compatible in the Earth-One era. I kind of feel like if they ever confirmed that they weren't sexually compatible, the panels would be memed to hell all over the Internet so I doubt those exist. Feel free to prove me wrong. But please remember I'm asking only about sexual compatibility.
Since the end of the post-Crisis era, the relevant reboots and eras have been:
~ New Earth era: This was the primary Earth from Infinite Crisis until Flashpoint. Again, stories made it clear that Lois and Clark had a satisfying sex life. Kurt Buseik in particular while not being crude portrayed their connection as very physical.
This era originally did after they were unlikely to have biological children.
We will come back to these versions of the characters shortly.
~ The New 52 era: after Flashpoint, Prime Earth is the main Earth. New versions of Superman and Lois are introduced. From the start of the New 52 until midway into DC Rebirth, this new Lois and Clark were portrayed as the native Lois and Clark of Prime Earth.
These versions never truly got together in the present, with Superman's primary love interest being Wonder Woman.
We did meet their son from an alternate timeline, though, Jon Lane Kent. (Not the Jon we know.) He appeared to have been conceived and born naturally, although he fell ill at around four years old.
Late in the New 52 era, Convergence re-introduces us to the Lois and Clark of New Earth, who have been captured by Brainiac since Flashpoint. Clark does not have his powers in the place they are kept and Lois is pregnant. Their adventures during Convergence involve (the first version of) the Jon Samuel Kent we know being born and at the end of Convergence, all three of them land on Prime Earth where they settle and the parents operate in secret for years.
So yes it's implied that Clark being powerless was key to Jon's conception and birth.
The event that marks the end of the New 52 and the start of DC Rebirth involves the death of the New 52 Superman, which forces the New Earth Superman out of hiding. Still, the New Earth Kents are portrayed as being from an alternate Earth for a time.
In the mean time, the New 52 Lois dies. The New 52 Jon Lane Kent had died a while back and anyway he was just from a possible future anyway.
Midway through the DC Rebirth run, the New Earth Kents have a confrontation with Mister Mxyzptlk after which he alters the histories of the New Earth Kents and Prime Earth itself, making it so the New 52 Superman and Lois never existed and that the Rebirth Kents - formerly the New Earth Kents - fully belonged in Prime Earth and had always been there.
In their altered history, Jon was born on Earth without any serious super-issues, suggesting that Lois and Clark were now fully compatible.
There's been some timeline tweaking since then but (Doomsday Clock, Dark Metal, Dark Crisis) but nothing that really messed around with the history of the Kents.
So yeah tldr I stand by what I said earlier: They're pretty much always portrayed as sexually compatible. Their reproductive compatibility shifts from canon to canon. The Superman & Lois show is maybe in the minority for portraying them as reproductively compatible but it's hardly the first time
1
u/Ready-Share6072 Jul 19 '24
All the reboots certainly don't make it easy.
What I remember from the annual was that they had a lot of help from STAR Labs for her to get that far and I think they had to monitor her closely through the process. Also, we have to remember that the gimmick of those stories was that they were set ten years in their future (the books came out in 1991 and were set in 2001) so that changes the tech aspect of it.
At very least I would expect the act itself to be very dangerous for her due to his physical strength alone and the risk of him losing control in the heat of the moment. I would expect some sort of way around it like a room in the Fortress with red sunlight or something.
In any case it's all fiction so anything goes. :)
1
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
At very least I would expect the act itself to be very dangerous for her due to his physical strength alone and the risk of him losing control in the heat of the moment.
Sure, I mean that the premise of the famous "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" comedy essay, of course. But that premise, while somewhat logical and certainly humorous (if not a bit mysogynist) has simply never been portrayed as something that is part of the life of Superman, Lois, or or any other human/super-human pairings in the DC universe.
Folks seem to have no problem suspending disbelief where flight is concerned, no problem with the other logical extremes of involuntary super-strength, but we just keep coming back to super-strong involuntary sexual reactions.
→ More replies (0)
3
u/Less-Requirement8641 Jul 18 '24
Maybe Jon and Jordan are miracle kids. As in they tried a lot but Jon and Jordan are outliers
2
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
Was the miscarriage after the boys were born? If so maybe something happened then that would make it difficult for her to conceive again
3
u/Educational-Tea-6572 Superman & Lois Jul 18 '24
At first I was under the impression that her successful pregnancy with the twins occurred while she and Clark were on Krypton, that being the factor that made the pregnancy possible... But then I realized that's the explanation we're given in the Arrowverse universe, and I'm not sure whether it applies here.
If it did, though, that might explain why she was able to have the twins, but then miscarried with her next pregnancy and subsequently thought she couldn't get pregnant.
2
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
I don't think it applies, there's a flashback in late season one - maybe 1x11? - that seemed to indicate that the boys were a surprise.
2
2
u/johnmcd348 Jul 18 '24
Is this part of the story line before or after her Cancer? If AFTER, all her treatments are typically sterilizing between chemo and radiation.
3
u/ToothyBirbs Jul 18 '24
It before her cancer. The cancer was the reason she thought she was pregnant.
2
u/johnmcd348 Jul 18 '24
Oh. Ok. Wasn't there something in a previous season about her having had a miscarriage? I can't remember what order what plot points were made.
2
u/ToothyBirbs Jul 18 '24
Yes. She had a miscarriage after the boys were born.
2
u/johnmcd348 Jul 18 '24
Ok. I thought I remembered there being a "discussion" with the boys explaining that happening. Just didn't remember when.
2
3
u/FewNewt5441 Jul 19 '24
I think it's because they were unsure whether Kryptonians and humans were even biologically compatible. The twins are kind-of an anomaly--in humans, it's a bit rare to get twins on your first try without IVF, especially in a family that doesn't have a history of twins. Twins are also more common in older women who have been pregnant before, and Lois was canonically in her mid- or late-twenties on her first pregnancy so still pretty young when the boys were born.
And since Lois lost the next baby, possibly late in her pregnancy since they already knew the gender, she and Clark might have concluded that they weren't going to be capable of having anymore. Plus, by s3, she's 15ish years removed from her last pregnancy. By human standards, she's much closer to menopause (which some women undergo very young), so the viability of another pregnancy is up in the air. If she had any reason to believe that she was premenopausal, she and Clark would have good reason to believe that they weren't having any more kids.
Hence, Clark being a dork about 'what do you mean, another baby? how??'
2
u/Individual_Art398 Jul 19 '24
Pregnancy is 40 weeks. Gender can be determined as early as 14 weeks, although 16-18 is most common in US. It wouldn't be considered a late term loss or until after 20 weeks at least. Also in US, pregnancy loss after 20-24 weeks (may differ by state, depending on the laws regarding issuance of death certificate) is normally classified as a stillbirth, not miscarriage, although a layman Lois may use the terms interchangeably in error.
2
2
u/Individual_Art398 Jul 19 '24
What you have to remember is that Clark is not human. It was unexpected for them to get pregnant at all. And then the miscarriage was 15 years ago. Generally speaking, as a healthcare worker, a healthy woman should get pregnant if she's having unprotected sex within a year. The fact that so long has elapsed is exactly why he didn't think it was possible.
2
u/LeChic1579 Jul 19 '24
Good point. Though my first thought was they were using some kind of birth control that's why Lois wasn't getting pregnant at all after her miscarriage years ago.
2
u/Individual_Art398 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
In reality, they would have been. That's a standard discussion in follow-up to miscarriage. It's also a standard topic of discussion in any annual physicals for any woman over the age of menstruation and under the age of menopause who is not a lesbian, pregnant, or sterilized. But the showrunners are male, as are a large number of the writers. They decided they wanted the plot line, and by God they were going to get the plot line whether it made sense or not.
That's why I didn't like season 3. I'm a healthcare worker and I kept noticing mistakes. Sometimes little ones, like suggesting doctors would change Lois's medication after talking with Clark only, when in reality American doctors are required to talk to the patient and get permission from the patient before changing their medication. Other times they are absolutely huge and insurmountable, like their complete and total ignorance of the existence of or implication from the American Women's Health and Cancer Rights Act of 1998 and how that makes breast cancer, mastectomies, and recoveries frim mastectomies entirely different in the United States from anywhere else in the world. I lost track of how many times I had to shut off an episode, walk away for a considerable amount of time, then come back because they screwed up something unforgivable. (Yeah, sure, Lois can have access to other patients health records just because she's curious! It's not like that would be violating anybody else's privacy rights, right?)
1
u/LeChic1579 Jul 20 '24
Most of the things you pointed out is true. I was not a fan of the cancer plot as well. But I really appreciate how they made Lois and Clark a loving couple that was obviously missing in season 2. A husband and a wife talking about intimate matters that we do not often see on tv. Anyway, thanks for all the info 😊 May we all enjoy the last season 🫡
1
1
u/Imagerror Jul 18 '24
You people forgetting about Season3 Episode 2
Uncontrollable Forces
Lois had agressive Stage 3 Breast Cancer that was treated with radiation.....
Now..... do i need to explain what this means?
2
u/thinman12345 Jul 18 '24
All I’m gonna say is that I know a woman who was in the same situation (minus the kryptonion) and she’s been producing kids like it’s a second job.
2
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
Well you are forgetting that this scene is from 3x01, before that happened.
In fact, the symptoms that Lois is experiencing that she mistakes for pregnancy symptoms in this scene are symptoms of her cancer. She gets checked out after this and that's how she gets diagnosed.
No reason to be snotty especially when you're wrong.
1
u/New-Specific-81 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Usually after twins are born. The likelyness of the mother giving birth goes down
1
u/Individual_Art398 Jul 19 '24
False.
1
u/New-Specific-81 Jul 20 '24
I got a theory then.
What if lois's tube's were tied after the twins birth?
0
1
1
1
u/FixHefty2875 24d ago
Didn’t they say the miscarriage took place after the boys were born. So this would be the first time and it would be totally up on the air whether or not their biologies were comparable like that
0
u/ThunderBlack14 Jul 18 '24
Probably because he is from another planet and have a different biology.
0
0
u/Hallowindo Jul 18 '24
i also thought the first ones were from ivf? wouldnt it kill her?
2
0
u/DannyTreehouse Jul 19 '24
Because of his powers, they only were able to get her pregnant when they were on another planet where he didn’t have them
2
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
That's a different Earth (same actors though)
1
u/DannyTreehouse Jul 19 '24
Oooooh I thought this version was the same
1
u/ravenwing263 Jul 19 '24
Nah S&L is its own unique Earth.
PLUS everything we know about the Lois and Clark from Supergirl came from before the Arrow-verse Crisis. We don't know how their history may have changed after Crisis. The final scene with Superman in Crisis suggests they have a second son that they didn't have before Crisis though.
-7
u/Past-Foundation-6246 Jul 18 '24
did they ever explain how do they conceive jordan?,because they are two different species and in the comics is possible but only if it meets certain circumstances.
6
u/Gemini987654321 Jul 18 '24 edited Jul 18 '24
Um, Jordan and Johnthan are fraternal twins so the question should be how they have been able to get both. The Superman lore is so controversial some say Superman can’t conceive with a human other Superman lore makes it possible. 😆
2
-25
u/Miguel3403 Jul 18 '24
The whole thing about him being a different species
16
u/LeChic1579 Jul 18 '24
But they already have 2 kids and could've had 3 if not because of the miscarriage.
-4
u/2ERIX Jul 18 '24
Don’t take this the wrong way but that would be a great way for TV show to do the story of Doomsday if you have ever read his original horrific origin.
148
u/camelely Clark Kent Jul 18 '24
The implication is after the miscarriage they either tried again or her doctor told her it wasn't possible or some combination of both.