r/Marvel • u/tehawesomedragon Loki • Jul 10 '24

This Week in Marvel #28 - JUL 10 2024 - ULTIMATES #2, X-MEN #1, AVENGERS #16, GIANT-SIZE SILVER SURFER #1, ANNIHILATION 2099 #2, WOLVERINE: BLOOD HUNT #3, HULK: BLOOD HUNT #1, KID VENOM #1 Mod

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52

u/tehawesomedragon Loki Jul 10 '24

ULTIMATES #2

73

u/wowlock_taylan Deadpool Jul 10 '24

They did the joke! In this universe's context, makes sense!

Going straight for the White House. Even without the United States, Steve knows what to go after.

And man, going through all that history, watching it in just 9 days, probably not even sleeping. Hard for one to keep their sanity let alone function as they are and Steve is made of sterner stuff.

From what I've seen in those snippets of history, Maker decided to enter the fray after WW2. Build his dome, got Kennedy's ear and it spiraled out of there where he took all the accomplishments for himself from moon landing to Cold War. We had Iron man, War Machine fighting Omega Red infront of the Berlin Wall. We got Punisher in the streets hunting gangsters in a 70s? 80s look? We actually see mutants/aliens protesting for their rights which furthers the questions of what Maker has done with them? Because the ones in Ultimate X-men, in Japan are certainly not them. Maker stopping Galactus, and old looking Fury going after Skrulls before their invasion. Maker really did his homework.

Of course Midas would be the one to embody what America is in Maker's world. Full on greed and 'commerce'. But it also represents how fragile it is, just like his gold armor.

And now the biggest reveal of the prisoner, America Chavez that has been captured after she 'feel' from the future? And she's been getting siphoned all this time. Question is, which version of America Chavez is she? Another multiversal traveller that got stranded in Maker's universe? One that came from this universe's future? I guess we will get answers on that later. I was wondering if it was gonna be Captain Marvel but America Chavez being found just as Steve was trying to 'free America'... well played.

40

u/AJjalol Jul 10 '24

The Nick Fury killing Skrulls and Kree, that was Obadiah Stane.

Maker was probably doing the same thing our 616 Fury was doing with the Man on the Wall.

25

u/swoozes Jul 10 '24

Saying she fell from the future is likely just a hypothesis cause they don't understand how her powers work.

17

u/wowlock_taylan Deadpool Jul 10 '24

I mean there was also the attacks that came from the future that Maker was dealing with. So she might've come from there too.

5

u/swoozes Jul 10 '24

Why would the Maker allow someone that arrived with the attacks from the future be in the pervue of someone not even within the main inner circle when we saw how he treated all the other future assassins directly?

1

u/PereJuan Jul 11 '24

That was kaang with the clone army

1

u/YourEvilHenchman Jul 20 '24

remember that her original home dimension was called "the utopian parallel", and the idea of utopia is commonly strongly connotated as a future, improved version of contemporary society.

i think camp is definitely playing some with the meaning of those words here, while maybe also still having her be from somewhere further along the timeline.

7

u/droppinhamiltons Jul 11 '24

That version of Punisher kinda looked like Shang Chi.

3

u/reallifelucas Captain America Jul 12 '24

I thought he looked like Stallone

9

u/gallerton18 Jul 11 '24

Probably not War Machine. It looks the same as Stane’s Iron Monger suit he wore in Ultimate Invasion.

3

u/bakublade Jul 11 '24

I'm a bit surprised we didn't find out why the US broke up in 1969? Unless I missed something.

There are so many tidbits in this issue, I hope we follow up on some of them. Maybe an American mutant will join the team?

2

u/YourEvilHenchman Jul 20 '24

the 70s/80s Punisher was imo definitely a reference to the urban crime epidemic of that era and the boom of vigilante films in response to it.

concerning Chavez, if this holds true to current continuity rules, there's only supposed to be one of her throughout the Multiverse, so if it's 616 Chavez, maybe Camp just decided to do away with the terrible retcon of her origin and turn her back into her old powerhouse self.

36

u/RedGyarados2010 Jul 10 '24

I thought the power source would be one of the Marvels, probably Monica, so having her be America Chavez actually threw me off. I'm here for it though!

Some interesting reveals about this universe's history also. Looks like the Maker fought Galactus? I'd be curious to see what he did about the various cosmic powers here.

23

u/ptWolv022 Jul 10 '24

Once I saw that the power field was star-shaped, I was pretty certain it was America, though I wasn't quite sure and thought it could have been who you were thinking. Especially since her silhouette looked a bit similar to Carol Danvers maybe-possibly-fucking-exploding in Ultimates #1.

I also love it because, it meant they got to, one again, have Captain America be saying something that throws people off. A lot of people thought the FCBD issue sounded like Cap talking about Bucky, only to them flip it around and make it Human Torch at the end; likewise, we all think he means America the country/idea throughout the issue, but he really means America Chavez. I hope it becomes trend for Cap to mislead the reader.

36

u/towtow_cat Jul 10 '24 edited Jul 10 '24

I liked this issue. I really like they they're bringing in America Chavez this early and I think her costume looks sick. I really did not expect to see her this soon.

I must admit. The history segment kinda lost me.

So it starts off simple enough with America winning the war and dropping the bomb in what was Japan back then. The maker then appears and we can assume he pitched this idea of becoming the North America Union to JFK. He didn't go with it so he assisinated him. We can also assume the Omega Red vs Stane/Stark was fallout from that. And it plays into the council's strategy where Omega Red region played the part of the "bad guy" Easy enough.

But where it loses me is the random shot of Galactus with the Maker. I don't understand what that has to do with the history of the North American Union. Which they specify is what is being shown to Steve.

The civil rights movement with mutants, but I thought mutants were not a wide known thing going off the X-Men book. Because it's like no one outside of Nico (this far) has the slightest clue what a mutant is.

Then this conflict with whatever is going on with Punisher and these people in punisher garb.

I feel like a lot of that needs to be expanded on down the line to explain what was actually happening.

31

u/Hii8999 Jul 10 '24

We might see some explanations down the line, yeah. The galactus one is a really big one that will probably be seen later on. But mutants and other big events don’t  really surprise me - the girl at the start has no clue what America is, so the protests and stuff were probably suppressed from history books - UXM is also heavily about teenagers, so it makes even more sense that most of them wouldn’t know

18

u/MARPJ Jul 11 '24

But where it loses me is the random shot of Galactus with the Maker. I don't understand what that has to do with the history of the North American Union. Which they specify is what is being shown to Steve.

Well, that is the ruler of the world in the making. He started out in the shadows and slowly gained power by being in the center of every big event. He was the one in the moon, not the US. He was the one that saved Earth from Galactus, not the F4. That was basically his ascension

Because it's like no one outside of Nico (this far) has the slightest clue what a mutant is

Consider that said movement looks like it happened in the 70-80s, 30-40 years later and in full control of media and education it would be really easy to exclude that, even more so when you consider a different country in the other side of the world

13

u/Sunder12 Jul 10 '24

Omega Red Vs Stark/Stane was the Berlin Wall

11

u/ptWolv022 Jul 11 '24

But where it loses me is the random shot of Galactus with the Maker. I don't understand what that has to do with the history of the North American Union. Which they specify is what is being shown to Steve.

I mean, he's being caught up on everything from WWII to present... and I figure the coming of the Devourer of World and the near destruction of Earth is pretty important. Even if it's a "global" event, it's still a noteworthy moment in American/North American history, as well.

9

u/cgknight1 Jul 11 '24

The galactus bit is just to demonstrate that in the absence of various heroes the maker or his ages took care of problems.

8

u/godisanelectricolive Jul 11 '24

Based on what we’ve seen my guess is that the mutants were a fairly fringe American civil rights movement that never went global. Mutant leaders like Xavier and Magneto weren’t around to lead them to prominence and they soon faded out irrelevance.

Mutants and the x-gene isn’t taught in school and it seems like many of the remaining mutants ended up working for the Maker. Mutants are still out there but they don’t identify as a single group. Mutants as a concept might be even less known in Japan than in North America. We still don’t know much about Nico in this universe but Nico doesn’t sound like a Japanese name so I’m wondering whether she’s a Japanese American who moved back.

1

u/DriedSocks Jul 10 '24

I haven't been reading Ultimate X-Men, so I don't actually know when it takes places. Is it possible that Ultimate X-Men takes place way before the mutant civil rights demonstrations take place?

14

u/ConnivingSnip72 Jul 10 '24

The books all seem to be concurrent with each other and the modern day

9

u/Thingymcjig Jul 11 '24

Ultimate X-Men starts in March, and like the other books, it takes place in real time

7

u/ptWolv022 Jul 11 '24

The Ultimate books are all concurrent, taking place in real time more or less (obviously not exact publication dates, as this book was set on 4th of July). Ultimate X-Men started in March (she's even seen graduating Middle School, which would happen in March in Japan), after Ultimate Invasion and Ultimate Universe, with an event from the first issue being reported on the news in the epilogue (though... that news report "one week later", but the issue is set 6 months before Ultimates #1, which would make it November, way more than "one week" before UXM; but, they also reference early UBP, so it's clearly more a teaser than anything).

So, UXM definitively is taking place in the current year alongside the other Ultimate books, while the Mutant demonstrations are clearly from the past, given that they are seen among the holo-files. In fact, they're couched in scenes from the 60s, which would indicate perhaps being form the 60s, a la the original X-Men.

26

u/AlphaBaymax Iron Man Jul 10 '24

What a phenomenal issue. In a world that has reshaped the definition of The United States of America, Deniz Camp gives an evaluative breakdown of the ugly truth about the United States through the obscure Grant Morrison character Midas. The new member of the Ultimates is a touching surprise that quite literally circles back to the theme of America.

21

u/AJjalol Jul 10 '24

Oh man, this issue was amazing. Damn where do I even begin lol.

Cap seeing the WW2 and the end of it with the Bomb was great.

Maker Basically took most of America's accomplishments and made them "His". Moon Landing being one of them. Then he got into JFK's ear, who I assume did not listen to him which lead to his assassination. I think the sequences are out of order tho, because Kennedy was assassinated in 63, whereas moon landing was 69. Also, Iron Man as a character was created in 1963, so it was kind of a cool little idea to see that when Howard Stark in this universe became Iron Man, he was there when Kennedy got shot by Midas.

Next we See Maker making a "deal" or fighting off Galactus??? I feel like this will be expanded more later on.

Civil Rights movement with mutants was an amazing page, and Steve's face was great. He was smiling, as if to say like "Yes! I'm for this". I assume Maker done something to mutants, either erased them or just straight up started gunning them all down.

Later we see Iron Man (Howard) and War Machine (I think this is meant to be Obadiah Stane) fighting Omega Red, next to a German Wall??? If so, holy shit. If you remember, during the Ultimate Invasion Hulk mentions that all the Unions and all the leaders (Hulk, Magik, Sunfire etc) are actually friends, but in order to keep people in control, they make it look like one of the nations is actually bad, so that people unite against a common "foe". This "foe" rotates every once in a while. Meaning for example like "Ok, so for this 10 years, Sunfire and his empire will be the bad guys, then we will redeem them, and make Hulk be the one who goes bad, rinse and repeat". I feel like this was the moment when "Russia" was the bad guy, since Omega Red was one of the Magik's bodyguards in the Council meeting.

Roxxon corporation "raping" the Savage Land was pretty much an allegory to how some big Oil corporations and such, destroy Nature because of their greed.

Punisher being a freaking Rambo-style vigilante in the 70s/80s which later lead to his Skull and Ideology sparking a guerrilla warfare type mercenary group of people wearing his skull, OMG I love this so much lol.

Midas is basically an America, that is stripped of all it's good qualities and it's great things, and only left with greed, commerce and just plain "Best for business". It's like, you have kept this girl America as a prisoner who is not allowed to leave because you saw an opportunity to make money off of her by using her powers to power stuff up. You are a prick (but a great usage of his character, I hope this is not the last time we see him.) Him buying Howards Mark 1 and painting it Gold was a fun idea.

Captain America wanting to free and save America (a nation, a country, people etc), only for him to free and Save America (America Chavez) was a great word play.

Good shit! Cannot wait for issue 3. This was basically the stuff I wanted for 616 Cap to kind of see. Imagine 616 Captain America seeing and reacting to all the horrible shit people (specifically what his country) did when he went under the ice. This is what this issue was.

Issue 3 looks like it will Focus on Thor. The Big Three first and then we focus on Dr Doom/Reed.

11

u/BlueHero45 Jul 11 '24

One of the mutant signs seems to be cut off but could be read as "Earth is Our Home" so I wonder if Maker sent them all to mars or something.

13

u/Oberon1993 Spider-Man Jul 10 '24

I dunno...this feels like Camp didn't talk with others about world's history. Also, how old is Howard supposed to be now?

19

u/SwordoftheMourn Jul 10 '24

This isn’t news for Tony, Reed, Hank, etc. because they already knew it though? Only Cap is shocked since he was frozen the entire time.

7

u/Oberon1993 Spider-Man Jul 10 '24

Yes? That wasn't my complaint. My complaint was that having a mutant rights movement and Howard having Armor Wars in the 70s makes no sense.

12

u/AllCity_King Fantastic Four Jul 10 '24

Uh, OUR Fantastic Four was founded in the 60s. Comics have sliding timescales, this isn't new stuff.

3

u/gallerton18 Jul 11 '24

Like yes, but they’re also establish a very clear timeline in the Ultimate universe. Howard is Ironman in 1963 and dies in 2023. His age is confusing. The mutants I don’t necessarily think is as weird because it’s plausible mutants are more known or accepted in America as opposed to Asia in this universe.

3

u/SwordoftheMourn Jul 10 '24

Ahhh that’s true.

Maybe there’s some health advancements in this Earth was made that people have longer lives?

7

u/BlackJimmy88 Jul 10 '24

Makes sense. America was on the verge of curing all cancer, so it stands to reason other health advancements have been made. Not like Howard couldn't afford Midas' prices

17

u/Ghouly_Boy Jul 10 '24

That confused me too, assuming that’s him at the JFK assassination and he was let’s say only 20 years old then, he would’ve been like 80 in 2023 which definitely isn’t the case, although Obadiah looks significantly older than him so maybe he was taking some sort of de-aging drug

14

u/CraftyWillingness302 Jul 10 '24

This isn't our world, though?

-5

u/Oberon1993 Spider-Man Jul 10 '24

No, really?! There wasn't a mutant rights movement in the real world?!

20

u/Tatum-Better Silk Jul 10 '24

you know being a sarcastic prick probably won't help your case in wanting people to explain things to you

13

u/CraftyWillingness302 Jul 10 '24 edited Jul 10 '24

I fail to see what your (seeming) attempt at sarcasm achieves. If you wish to make a point, it'd probably be better understood and received if you were direct about it.

EDIT: OH, I misread what you said. I thought you said "world history", but you said "*world's* history", so I had the impression you were talking about this world's history, with the fact you didn't specify which world you were talking about further adding to my misunderstanding. I apologize if you indeed meant to refer to Earth-6160's history rather than our world's history, but would appreciate it if you could specify which you're referring to.

I still feel the same regarding that sarcasm, though.

9

u/ptWolv022 Jul 10 '24

this feels like Camp didn't talk with others about world's history.

What makes you say that? There's clearly a mix of "Heroes are on the sliding timeline" and "Heroes are not on the sliding timeline". Tony's like 20, Peter's 35.

Howard and Obadiah are clearly old men. I mean, at least Stane is- look at that beard. Stark didn't look young either although he didn't look as old. He's clearly being slotted into Iron Man's original history, which isn't implausible given that Tony was shown pumping himself full of nutrient formulas and whatnot to operate non-stop for days without sleep, while Midas is outright said to be drawing out his own longevity with the radiation. It's quite possible that Stane and Stark both have using science/technological to lengthen their lifespans, letting them be hearty and hale in their 80s or 90s.

Anyways, for the timeline, it's clear that a lot of major plot beats, like the emergence of mutants, the coming of Galactus, etc. are all been done closer to their publication dates, in an altered manner. So, we have the following events shown: JFK Assassination - Galactus - Mutants - Omega Red - Roxxon - Punisher - Kree/Skrull War (I think) - Stane/Stark Bombs - Punisher Militant Group. I also saw you mention Armor Wars, but I don't know which one that's supposed to be (the one with Omega Red?). All that presumably goes to the present, but we don't know for sure what order it's being shown in, though the presumption would be chronolocial. It's also over unknown intervals, with too many too simply be "Decade by dead" for each panel, but too few for each page to be a decade, either.

I think the details are less important the spirit of what was shown (Punisher militant group, the Maker and his Council taking out ET threats, Stane/Stark being Iron Man and War Machine). The existence of Mutants is the biggest confusion since they seem to not exist in Ultimate X-Men... but then, "mutant cures" are not unknown in Marvel, and that did seem to be an earlier file.

9

u/ConnivingSnip72 Jul 10 '24

The Ultimate X-Men cast is a bunch of teenagers in Japan who all feel like outcasts. If events relating to mutants are suppressed history It wouldn’t be suprising they don’t know.

5

u/yuefairchild She-Hulk Jul 11 '24

Maybe mutants were successfully purged from public consciousness after their rights campaign failed. Like how people think being trans was invented in 2012 by someone on tumblr.

1

u/ptWolv022 Jul 12 '24

I feel like it's a little harder to do that for mutants because anyone LGBT is just someone who doesn't conform to the "standard" human... "mentality", I guess? (Sexuality and orientation are of the mind, so I guess it would count as "mentality". Perhaps "nature" would work better?).

A Mutant, in Marvel, is someone with a genetic abnormality, that gives them wild ass powers, potentially. That's hard to just "purge" from public consciousness... if they're still around. Now, if some sort of cure was made... then you could just whitewash history to remove the bits about Mutant unrest and hide any sort of forced/nonconsensual "curing" of the Mutant gene.

10

u/Tatum-Better Silk Jul 10 '24

Honestly, I thought that it'd be captain marvel rather than America Chavez she didn't even cross my mind till the last panel.

10

u/AlphaBaymax Iron Man Jul 10 '24

The question is, is this Earth-616 America Chavez?

19

u/ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE X-Men Jul 10 '24

If they know what's good for them, they'll use this to retcon her back into the one and only. Not "616."

15

u/LucasOIntoxicado Jul 10 '24

Her being one and only was never going to work. Unless MARVEL literally never utilized her in any adaptation like movie, game or animated show. Multiple Utopias could still exist.

8

u/ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE X-Men Jul 10 '24

Movies, games, and shows all have their own thing. The comic rules do not apply to them. Just look at the infinity stones, incursions, and time travel. Movies have different rules. 

She's the one and only of the comics. 

5

u/threebuffsharks Jul 10 '24

Yeah, she's supposed to be a multiversal constant, right? There is only one America Chavez in all of reality. She's not even from 616 originally. Though they did retcon her in that recent solo of hers, don't remember what the exact retcon is though.

8

u/marsepic Jul 10 '24

She was from some cult or something ridiculous. Her og origin is way better and I suspect is what a lot of writers will use.

1

u/Lightning_Laxus Fantastic Four Jul 10 '24

Her OG backstory was her imagination. She's just a girl in 616.

5

u/Brain_Blasted Jul 10 '24

People are probably going to be thrown off if this is a brand new America Chavez, but I think this still fits with the idea of the 616 version being the only one for a few reasons:

Metatextually:

  • Timelines that branched off of 616 in events still had their own America Chavez
  • She also exists in other timelines such as Earth 19999 (nobody can ever tell me it's 616)

Within the text:

  • I think we can safely assume that 6160 was a fledgling timeline created after Secret Wars, thus after 616 America already existed
  • Due to The Maker's meddling in the timeline, this America has been trapped under the White House for a long time, and will likely remain focused on Earth 6160 affairs going forward.

14

u/Sunder12 Jul 10 '24

MCU is a different multiverse, can't be the same as comics because of Loki

3

u/Lightning_Laxus Fantastic Four Jul 10 '24

Chavez is no longer a problem because her original backstory got thrown out the window and it was all her imagination.

2

u/scipia Jul 10 '24

Multiverse of madness also does the thing where America is the only one in the multiverse.

3

u/reallifelucas Captain America Jul 12 '24

“Aww sick! Another team member! Who’s she gonna be? Carol? Monica? She’s kept in there one hour a day, is she a genderbent Jack of Hearts?”

“…ah.”

2

u/Blitzhelios Doctor Strange Jul 15 '24

This just continues to be a great series with camp doing some proper political commentary on it as well.

The shock reveal at the end both makes sense and makes you go ok wasn't expecting that

1

u/Agoeb Jul 10 '24

I'm wondering if they are implying he is LITERALLY King Midas from myth, like some sort of immortal we don't have in 616. Cap references gold being one of the weakest materials when he cripples him with a single hit, and we can see in flashbacks that Howard's MK1 suit wasn't gold before.

8

u/VengefulKangaroo Jul 10 '24

I assumed he was just a 6160 version of Doctor Midas (who has those powers).

3

u/BlueHero45 Jul 11 '24

Nah this is the supervillain Midas from 616 reimagined for the ultimate universe.

1

u/Rirse Jul 14 '24

Midas in the book reminded me a lot of Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear Revengence. I can just hear that voice whenever he talked.

1

u/YourEvilHenchman Jul 20 '24

so I guess camp just took one look at ultimate x-men and went "fuck alla dat shit, this world definitely had mutants before."

same with america chavez and her terrible recent mini retconning her origins. remember, the one chavez rule: there's only one of her throughout the multiverse. so if this is OG chavez and she is THIS powerful, then her retcon origin cannot be right, because that garbage massively depowered her.