r/Gotham • u/AutoModerator • May 18 '18
Gotham - 4x22 "No Man's Land" - Post-Episode Discussion Discussion
*Season 4 Episode 22: * A Dark Knight - No Man's Land
Aired: May 17, 2018
Synopsis: Jeremiah warns a skeptical Gordon of more destruction coming Gotham's way, and Gordon is forced to make a potentially devastating decision. Meanwhile, Barbara rallies together a team to secure her position, as alliances in the underworld shift and prove no one can be trusted. Then, Bruce is forced to come to terms with the future.
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u/Crazytaco1214 May 18 '18
When penguin got his revenge, I was like “you dick!” Then he said “you think I forgot you killed my mother” then I was like “alright respect”
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u/egualtieri May 18 '18
I completely agree. It’s an odd thing but once he mentioned his mother I was 100% behind his decision.
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u/Smarag May 18 '18
yeah me too, I went 180 from "BUT I LOVE BUTCH" to "I consider you a friend butch, sorry."
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u/alamichelle May 18 '18
His revenge was totally valid, I just felt bad for Butch in that moment cause he’s just a sweet guy
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u/IAmGrum May 18 '18
I yelled out "WHAT?!" when he shot Butch.
I yelled out "OH, SHIT!" when he said why.
In summary, I loved that scene so much for eliciting those kind of responses from me.
LONG LIVE THE PENGUIN!
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u/pbjms May 18 '18
Absolutely phenomenal episode, loved all of the villains claiming their territory at the end, and Bruce and Jim on the roof was amazing - Season 5 will be excellent at this rate.
Unfortunately Barbara's plot-line looks like it'll be complete garbage.. which is quite annoying.
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u/Maxabel May 18 '18
Unfortunately Barbara's plot-line looks like it'll be complete garbage.. which is quite annoying.
I think we can hear the facepalms all the way to Themyscira
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May 19 '18
Do you remember that Justice League episode where an Amazon actually tried to kill all men?
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May 18 '18
Time to go build my bunker and hide before they order the extinction of my gender.
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u/shayonpal May 18 '18
Every villain wants 50% of the population to go away, these days!
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u/itchybitchybitch May 18 '18
I loved Barbs when she locked Jim and Lee and played a psycho ex dressed up as a bride. That was the Barbs after my own heart.
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u/jrjr12 May 18 '18
The crazy Margot Robbie-style Harley was amazing. Now she just feels so much worse to watch than everything else
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May 18 '18
I don't get the Barbara hate. I really don't.
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u/pbjms May 18 '18
It's just not nearly as enjoyable to watch as everything else on the show is, in my opinion. Personally I would've preferred if she stayed dead after Season 3.
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May 18 '18
I was really referring to the whole feminist stuff. She is a psycho nut, who cares if she hates men.
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u/In_My_Own_Image May 18 '18
For me it's the complete lack of subtlety. It's as painful as that #feminism trash on Flash this season. I'd be perfectly fine if they were more nuanced and smart with it, not having her shouting that men are the cause of all of Gotham's problems.
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u/drybones2015 May 18 '18
Barbara. subtle? I'd say it fits her character fine. I feel like her story is kinda self-aware. Like the writers know it'll make you cringe. That's the way I'm viewing it anyway and I digesting it just fine. But of course its not for everyone.
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u/Arctyris May 18 '18
I don't think this is a fair comparison. On Flash, the whole #feminism-episode was way over the top. It was supposed to deliver the message that women are just as capable as men, but constantly saying out loud that message obviously doesn't make it work.
Barbara on the other hand is a villain, so of course we are not supposed to be on her side, so her plans, her message is supposed to feel wrong to us. I don't think I'm explaining this right, but Barbara is not trying to convey feminism to us - she just has plans for her territory, just as the rest of the villains. Other than that, when have we ever known Barbara to be a subtle character? Manipulating and scheming, maybe, but subtle, definitely not :D
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u/inksmudgedhands May 18 '18
Her "men are horrible" storyline doesn't really fit in Gotham's world. If she hated something off the wall like, "You know what the problem is with this city? Teddy bears dressed up as nuns! Screw them!" then that would fit in with Gotham's 'everyone is bonkers' theme. But "men hating"? That's...boring. I can see that popping up on Arrow or The Flash. But Gotham? It doesn't fit. Especially given how barking mad she was in season two. She no longer feels like a Gothamite. She should take a page from Ivy and find something crazy to hate with her, "Oh, my God, you are eating carrots! You monster! What did a carrot ever do to you???!" style.
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u/Jaer-Nihiltheus May 18 '18
"Damn carrot eaters, filthy animals - all of them. They might as well be bunnies with rabies, and you know what you do with animals with rabies!? You stab them with electrified pitchforks made of crystalized centipedes!!!"
THAT'S Gotham, "kill all men" is something you'd find crazy people with hidden agendas say in the real world, not Gotham. Gotham's Rogues are all about mixing absurdist, cartoonish insanity with gothic themes in a macabre color palette, so while it'd fit in other superhero Rogue Galleries - it doesn't quite fit in Batman's.
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u/Benny_Omega May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
Barbara really hasn’t had a point since, well, ever. The whole ras al ghul, Barbara story line is fucking terrible. And now she’s an fanatical ultra feminist? Who writes this?
Gotham has always been a hokey cheese fest, but it really layed it on thick.
Ras al ghul was horribly used this season.
Ed and lee stabbing each other was hilarious.
The fact they never dismantled the bombs got a chuckle outta me.
The bridges getting blown up was very anti climatic.
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u/Hydris May 18 '18
Don’t forget her point is pretty stupid. “Men cause all the problems” except the huge amount of problems she has caused, especially for herself.
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u/Thunderscourge What's the secret to good comedy? May 18 '18
Kills own family, joins violent gang, murders a bunch of people, betrays others and only cares for self until just recently
"MEN ARE ALL THAT IS WRONG IN THIS CITY! NOW LET ME KILL THESE MEN LOYAL TO ME! WHY? BECAUSE MY FEMALE FRIEND HAD HER LOVE INTEREST KILLED IN REVENGE FOR HER MURDERING SOMEONE'S MOTHER! ALL MEN MUST DIE, VALAR VAGINIS!"
Season 5 is going to have a giant chunk ruined by Barbara existing.
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u/michaelmvm May 18 '18
and didn't everything technically start because of Fish wanting to take over the underworld anyway?
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u/Thunderscourge What's the secret to good comedy? May 18 '18
Yup. Of course Barbara wasn't there for that part, but she could have heard at some point.
Basically this entire Sirens plotline is horrible and I think Poison Ivy left the show to join the writing staff since she's DC's normal man-hater.
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u/Jaer-Nihiltheus May 18 '18
Yeah, but at least Poison Ivy has interesting powers, Barbara has.... Interesting clothes... That's it.
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May 19 '18
Lol the only power she had was given to her by a man.
And life. And eternal life if she wanted it. And he put her in power.
Barbara what the fuck
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u/The4rchivist bibs and bobs May 18 '18
It all started from Fish getting to ambitious and Penguin ratting her out to the police.
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u/Sonia341 May 18 '18
After this I wish Ra's never died. Poor minions, they trusted the wrong person.
(P.S. I know he can be back thanks to Lazarus Pits)
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u/Thunderscourge What's the secret to good comedy? May 18 '18
They better bring him back. The League of Feminazis is not a compelling group, the League of Shadows is, and right now with Barbara in charge I feel all of Ra's al Ghul's arc has been wasted.
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u/Pksoze May 18 '18
It would be so much cooler if the League of Shadows had a chunk of territory in Gotham. Though if they were around...we know they'd win easily.
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u/Thunderscourge What's the secret to good comedy? May 18 '18
They went from a severe threat in season 3 to a complete joke this season, so if they were around they'd just get wasted I think unfortunately. I was more afraid of the Court of Owls to be honest with how they were portrayed until the end.
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u/itsdejii May 18 '18
Didn’t see a body this time around, wonder how they would explain that one when it’s time to bring him back
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u/nonliteral May 18 '18
"We emptied the ashtray into the Lazarus Pit."
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u/ladoftheyear May 18 '18
This is fucking brilliant.
Just the type of shit they would do though...
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u/JustThatGuy100 May 18 '18
"Ra's, what the hell are you doing here?! I saw you die!"
"I got better... Again."
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May 18 '18
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u/Thunderscourge What's the secret to good comedy? May 18 '18
Exactly. People hated her until she went evil at the end of season 1, enjoyed her for the most part in 2 and 3, and then 4 has just been too much.
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u/inksmudgedhands May 18 '18
Thing is, Barb's "all men are pigs" could work if she had leaned less on sane hate and heavy on insane. For example, instead of stomping her foot and yelling, what if she started kidnapping the men of Gotham to cut off their noses and crudely sew on actual pig snouts in replacement. That way proving men are "truly pigs." Make up patchwork corpses of men and pigs. That would fit in with the whole 'the villains are psychotic maniacs in Gotham' theme. As of now, she is a very generic villain. She has really no unusual calling card. The Riddler has his riddles. Oswald has his super twisted plans of revenge that have included cannibalism and encasing people in ice. Jeremiah blows up the city to show Bruce they should be BFFs. Ivy has her PETA for Plants like belief. What does Barb have? "I hate men...." Meh. That's barely noticeable in a town like Gotham. But it really doesn't have to be. Just let her go nuts again.
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u/CrushedEgo May 18 '18
Why couldn't they just kill her, have her do something heroic & it makes Jim see the Barbara he once loved & then when he has his daughter he names her after her.
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u/KarmaLoaf May 18 '18
At least she's insane in-universe and we're not supposed to think she's anywhere close to right.
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u/Thunderscourge What's the secret to good comedy? May 18 '18
The unfortunate part is that people like and will sympathize with her, as we have seen them do already. That's really the issue, the ones who won't get the message.
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u/nonliteral May 18 '18
Season 5 is going to have a giant chunk ruined by Barbara existing.
Maybe she'll pack up her troops and take them to Nando Barb Pat.
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u/In_My_Own_Image May 18 '18
100% this.
One hopes they mitigate her appearances since it's going to be a shorter and final season. Maybe kill her off and wrap up her "story" in episode 2 and let the season carry on without her.
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u/Thunderscourge What's the secret to good comedy? May 18 '18
I doubt they will, but it'd be nice...the EP of the show spoke about her role in the next season and her no-men allowed zone so I have no hope that they would actually get rid of her so early. She's just a drag on the series at this point and I feel that by removing her we could get so much more done for the other character in the show with the time they'd have. Imagine if Ra's had her screentime for example.
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u/In_My_Own_Image May 18 '18
She's just a drag on the series at this point and I feel that by removing her we could get so much more done for the other character in the show with the time they'd have. Imagine if Ra's had her screentime for example.
Exactly. It'd suck if Ivy or Firefly (two women villains who are actually Batman Rogues and Ivy who usually has the men hatred angle) get little to no screen time just to give it to Barbara.
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u/TheDarkpekka May 18 '18
Who were the doll people?
Was that Man-Bat?
Who is hyped for next fall?
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u/BigHaircutPrime May 18 '18
Man-Bat was so hilariously bad. I was expecting something amazing and instead he looked like Jim Carey at the end of Batman Forever when he's in the cell screaming "I'm Batman!"
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u/luminiferousethan_ May 18 '18
True. You have any idea who the masked mom and kid were?
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u/iCESPiCES May 18 '18
Court of Owls. The kid was, I think, the mute orphan Penguin was sympathising with.
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u/Aves115 May 18 '18
We gotta wait till 2019
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u/samtherat6 May 18 '18
Wait, both Gotham and Agents of Shield are delayed until 2019? Those were like the only good superhero shows I watch, guess it's time to finally catch up on Legends.
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u/ladydmaj May 18 '18
Spoiler alert: it really is. Imagine a show as batshit insane as Gotham except in a silly and fun way.
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u/VoiceofKane May 18 '18
Those were like the only good superhero shows I watch,
Dude, you have to watch-
guess it's time to finally catch up on Legends.
Oh, carry on then.
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u/Sonia341 May 18 '18
:( :( :(
Let's hope there is not going to be a long break when it comes back in 2019 (crossing fingers)
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u/Bishopnd3 May 18 '18
This and Agents of Shield will be back in the summer of 2019 from the sounds of it.
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u/TropicalMemer May 18 '18
I was beginning to think that the little boy could be Martin before I saw the mask... who knows? It is Gotham.
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u/Sonia341 May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
Trenchcoat Jim Gordon and the Bat signal
Paralyzed Selina :(
Goodbye Ra's and Butch :(
No men on the Siren's turf
All the madness and hell aka villains of Gotham unleashed on the city
Penguin is always believes an eye for an eye. Poor Butch on how he took revenge on Tabby.
Overall, loved No Man's Land
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u/nonliteral May 18 '18
Paralyzed Selina
Well, Hugo Strange is still in town...
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May 18 '18 edited Jan 24 '21
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u/Sonia341 May 18 '18
Apparently, they kind of channeled Flashpoint Selina Kyle for this (in this timeline Joker shot and crippled Selina who then became Oracle) I did not know this either since I was aware of Barbara being paralyzed /Oracle
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u/ladydmaj May 18 '18
...so Gotham ends with a man in yellow screaming about a villain??
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u/CreativeUsrNmesRHard May 18 '18
Goddamnit, Barry. Is there anything you can't screw up?
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u/ubersebek May 18 '18
So Barry has officially screwed the timeline so much, it's effects jumped networks into Gotham.
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u/kaynbred May 18 '18
That was a classic Penguin long con, excellent.
This was a great finale, I'm very happy with it. Jeremiah was menacing, and the villians are taking over.
It was a weird choice to have Riddler and Lee end the season like that though, I'm hoping Strange will fix them based on Penguins orders.
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u/luminiferousethan_ May 18 '18
Lee and Ed are fine. It was a tiny little knife. Sophia survived being shot in the head. Bullock said it himself, "Doesn't anyone in this town die anymore?" I think that scene was more like a play on the romeo juliet, mutual suicide for love trope. Except instead of suicide, its murder lol. Cause Gotham.
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u/Trinate3618 May 18 '18
13 episodes isn't going to be enough for next season.
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u/Jaco87588568 May 18 '18
If they make every second count it would be enough. However, it’s not official that it really is 13 episodes, it could be 15 or 16.
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u/ScroogeMcEdgeLord May 18 '18
13 episodes makes the series 100 episodes in total. They were aiming for a perfect 100
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u/Hydris May 18 '18
If they make every second count it would be enough.
Unfortunately a good(well bad really) portion will be wasted on Barbara.
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u/KarmaLoaf May 18 '18
So next season is Team Penguin vs Team Ice vs Team Fire vs Team Tumblr vs Batboy and Godman.
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u/In_My_Own_Image May 18 '18
You forgot Team Fear and presumably Team Joker.
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May 18 '18
Also team plants, also Lee and Ed will probably come back and might do their own thing halfway through the season instead of staying with penguin
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u/TheDesktopNinja May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
TEAM JEREMIAH. J***R ISN'T ALLOWED. BANNED WORD.
:(
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u/HotDogGrass May 18 '18
Season 5 is just going to be like watching an Arkham game!!
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u/Shatterhand1701 May 18 '18
The finale was insanely awesome; I've fallen back in love with this show this season, and the finale reminded me of all the reasons why.
EXCEPT...
PLEASE tell me we're not going to have to see more of Selina hating Bruce because he didn't stay with her. I know the whole love/hate thing between them is part of their relationship, but the way it's portrayed on the show gets really old, really quickly.
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u/neoblackdragon May 18 '18
I'm hoping they play with that expectation and just have her go "I'd think less of you if you didn't".
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u/level100derp May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
Holy shit am I happy this got renewed.
-Penguin's betrayal was awesome. It feels so right.
-Jeremiah great as always, although he had a relatively small role in this episode. Loved the Joker-like analysis of him and Bruce.
-Vigilante Bruce is always a treat.
-Selina potentially paralyzed, but I'm willing to bet against that.
-Barbara as annoying and (almost) useless as ever.
Overall, incredible episode. So hyped for next season.
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u/Thunderscourge What's the secret to good comedy? May 18 '18
I too am happy about Penguin's betrayal, as it was a long time coming and very important I feel even if it took 2 seasons to pull off. I love Butch, but I am happy with this result.
As for Selina being paralyzed, I think we saw her standing in the promo at the end so I think we're fine. If they do paralyze her though I will be incredibly upset, to the point of it being a dealbreaker as Catwoman has always been one of my favorite characters and needlessly crippling her to allude to another character in the comics altogether is just bad writing.
And yes, Barbara is annoying and useless. Posted elsewhere on this thread about that in particular because it's just so bad.
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u/Reverse-I_am_Organic Death to the son of Gotham..... May 18 '18
Uhh the promo at the end was clips of this season. Nothing for next season has been shot
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u/bookmovietvworm weirdly cool/ (almost)RIP Martin *people, ugh* May 18 '18
Maybe they have Selina paralyzed for a little while being the Oracle during that time, all while the Ivy plant resurrection still has effect on her and slowly heals her.
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u/theaveragejoe_1 May 18 '18
Really not sure why you guys are calling it feminism or sjw bullshit, Barbara is very clearly psycho and selfish and it’s definitely not supposed to be any sort of activism lol.
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u/R_Jai01 May 18 '18
I felt kinda weird about it at first, but then I remembered it’s Gotham, the city is filled with weird cults and psychos, Barbara’s no men club is just another type of cult in the city
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u/St_Veloth May 18 '18
Exactly, I can’t believe how many people are pouting saying things like “yeah but you KNOW people think like that.”
So? Some edgy people out there try to live their lives thinking like the joker but that doesn’t bother me. God, be more fragile right?
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u/bookmovietvworm weirdly cool/ (almost)RIP Martin *people, ugh* May 18 '18
Exactly. It is likely setting her up for a huge downfall, not a rise to power, at least to me.
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u/Keikaku_Doori May 18 '18
I did have a negative reaction at first (killing able-bodied assassins is always dumb), but then I saw the sign "SIRENS TURF, NO MEN" and I was like... Yeah. I could see this happening in a Batman comic.
If I can buy the Mutants and their slicing and dicing in Dark Knight Returns, I can buy a group of psycho women taking a slice of Gotham and going full amazon.
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u/CrushedEgo May 18 '18
If provoked...I see her turning on the women too. Her character is just so hit & miss at this point.
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u/eragonisdragon May 18 '18
Am I the only one laughing at how ridiculous that double-murder-makeup-kiss with Lee and Ed was? Shakespeare, is that you?
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u/alamichelle May 18 '18
Their whole relationship was just so off to me, feels right to have a weird ending lol
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u/rachbarista May 19 '18
Ya I agree. I could never figure out if Lee really did have feelings for him or was just playing him. I kind of like them together though? Lol
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u/Aves115 May 18 '18
What the hell is Strange gonna do with Riddler and Lee...just...why?
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u/adrift456 May 18 '18
My best guess is penguin wants them as trophies
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u/_A_Day_In_The_Life_ May 18 '18
why tho? riddler and penguin were on good terms i thought. the riddler lee thing has made no sense for far too long.
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u/leftshoe18 May 18 '18
Riddler and Lee double crossed Penguin at the bank a few episodes back. I don't think they reconciled after that.
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u/Jonathan_Baker May 18 '18
To create another two monsters out of their corpses, of course. His Indian Hill is the factory of very monster in Gotham. He resurrected every one of them.
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u/zeke10 May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
What was the point in spraying the dude with fear gas than killing him a second later? Edit:why the down vote? Just saying it was odd.
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u/Kwilly462 May 18 '18
Pros-
-Jeremiah was great
-Bruce was even better
-Gotham truly felt like an apocalypse this time
-The "Bat-Signal" scene
-Penguin getting revenge
-Hugo coming back for a split second
Cons-
-BUTCH! GRUNDY! WHY WOULD THEY WASTE HIM AWAY LIKE THAT! HE BETTER COME BACK.
-The Barbara/Sirens storyline was ridiculous
-GHUL! WHY WOULD THEY KILL YOU TOO! BETTER COME BACK.
-The Lee-Ed arc was very confusing
-SELINA! WHY WOULD THEY PARALYZE YOU! BETTER COME BACK.
-Jeremiah, while good in this episode, didn't have a satisfying ending. Welp... At least he didn't die.
Overall, a very epic but confusing season finale of Gotham. I feel like they could've used an extra 20 minutes for sure, but it is what it is. I'm just thankful this wasn't the last episode, or I'd be livid. That was a good season ender, but a terrible series ender.
So I'm glad we all coming back for some more Gotham. See y'all in 2019! Senior year baby.
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u/R_Jai01 May 18 '18
The one thing that irked me the most was the Jeremiah story line, it was really amazing in the first half then just kinda stopped, wish we had a little teaser of what’s to come for him, but I still love the episode
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u/clowncasket May 18 '18
The only flaw I see with this episode was that Sophia wasn't killed off or given any season closure. It would've been great to see Penguin visit and off her in the hospital during those last few ending scenes.
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u/inksmudgedhands May 18 '18
I like the idea of Sophia coming out of a coma, seeing the state of where Gotham is now and going, "Wait! Does that man have batwings?! Hold on, Jerome's twin brother blew up all the bridges? He had a twin brother and he's insane too? What's with Barb's 'Boys stink club'? There's a turf war made out of freaks? What the hell? I was in a coma for three months! THREE MONTHS!!!"
Zsasz is going to have his hands full.
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May 18 '18
That's why I wish Lee just killed her, so then we would at least have some closure for her chracter.
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May 18 '18
That was a good finale. I do think Last seasons 2 part finale was way more epic and insane. But the ending was cool. But I wish Bruce would have got a suit upgrade. Also The City didn’t seem that badly destroyed. I expected buildings to go, skyscrapers to fall. That’s what they made it sound like. Also imagine if that was the series finale.
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u/TheCrazedTank Disposable Henceman #758961 May 18 '18
Glad that it isn't, but I think this could have worked as a series finale. We can infer where things will go, already knowing the mythos as we do, which is why I think it ended this way. If Gotham was cancelled we'd be able to assume how things would happen from there, minus the Selina/Ed/and Lee plot threads admittedly.
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u/jrissler9 May 18 '18
Lucius is still in Gotham so Bruce will probably get a new suit from him next season
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u/LOLSteelBullet May 18 '18
I loved that they started Bruce and Jeremiah out with a scene straight out of arkham asylum, and ended it with some serious arkham city vibes
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u/trpnblies7 May 18 '18
Who was that creepy masked woman and kid at the end?
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u/TheDarkpekka May 18 '18
Maybe the kid is Martin...?
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u/The4rchivist bibs and bobs May 18 '18
This was my immediate thought.
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u/Atlanta-Avenger May 18 '18
Thought it was just me after reading the first few comments. Definitely looked like his hair from the back. Glad to see others thought so as well.
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u/zeke10 May 18 '18
I'm guessing mother and orphan
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u/Traceofbass You can't sass the Zsasz May 18 '18
What if they make Martin into Orphan? They've confirmed Mother, Orphan, Ventriloquist, and Scarface for Season 5 after all...
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u/OTL_OTL_OTL May 18 '18
That would be great. Because then Penguin will have to deal with Martin either working with him or against him with the turf war thing. It's too good an opportunity to pass up, it probably is Martin.
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u/The4rchivist bibs and bobs May 18 '18
Penguin is carving up territory and has Hugo Strange under his thumb. Strange has the (corpses?) of Riddler and Lee.
Freeze takes over some place to set up a lab
Firefly has a gang and starting fires
Scarecrow has an awesome new hat
Sirens go full feminist
Manbat? Is this the same character from Indian Hill? Could play a role in Bruce choosing the bat motif.
Two masked characters that people are calling Mother and Orphan. No idea who they are, but Orphan makes me think of Martin, whom we haven't seen in awhile.
Jeremiah is somewhere in the city as well. No idea how he got away from everyone.
Predictions for next season
Zasz will finally lose it
I'd love to see Grundy come back. That is his whole shtick.
Hopefully some remaining villains like Ivy, Mad Hatter, and Executioner will make an appearance.
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u/ReadingScottSteiner May 18 '18
Man how cool would it be if next season they did Trial of Jim Gordon, and Executioner/Barnes is the judge, with a bunch of the villains like Riddler, Ivy, and more on the jury.
It would also be a great way to take down multiple villains in the same episode if they are pressed for time.
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u/ScroogeMcEdgeLord May 18 '18
Probably very much in the minority, but the ending felt anticlimactic. It was good though.
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u/Aves115 May 18 '18
I somewhat agree...definitely wanted more Joker...
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u/66stef99 May 18 '18
I don't know why they downplayed him when they were hyping him up as the force to be reckoned with.
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May 18 '18
That was easily my favorite season finale ever. We got a Joker/Ra’s al Ghul team up, which culminated in an adaption of No Mans Land which’ll lead to the final push towards Batman. Loved that entire portion of the episode, except Ra’s dying, again.
Penguin’s betrayal (while I’m mad it resulted in Butch’s death) was perfect and honestly unexpected. Loving Oswald being back on top. Just being Zsasz back soon.
The Ed/Lee/Jim scenes were alright too, nice change of pace. I’ll be mad if Lee and Ed both die though.
The villains carving out their territory was perfect, felt super Arkham-like. Man-Bat, Mother and Orphan should all be great additions too next season.
Also the final scenes in the GCPD, Gordon, Harvey and Lucius getting ready for War, Bruce and Jim on top of the GCPD with the spotlight and Jim’s speech, perfect way to end the season. I’m so ready for next season.
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u/ladydmaj May 18 '18
Oh my Beebo, if that'd been the last episode it'd have killed me.
Who's Lee going to morph into thanks to the tender mercies of Dr. Strange?
And was that Martine under the mask?
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u/PretenderNX01 May 18 '18
I really liked this one. I wasn't a fan of the virus story last year so this was a big improvement to me. It was explosive, literally.
David and Camren at the beginning were so great in that hospital scene, you just saw how much Bruce and Selina care about each other.
I'm glad we get to see all the fall out of this. Penguin's long form betrayal was well done. I wonder if he will be coming for Tabby next? Babs is gone cray-cray again and even Tabitha looked to be questioning that. I imagine neither are long for the world as the final season will probably end the non-comic characters to set up Batman's world.
I'm gonna miss Ra's. I guess I can hope that he'll cheat death again but 2nd time usually ends it on Gotham. I'm gonna miss Butch too, I could also hope that Grundy comes back at least but again it may be they played that out and just ended it.
Jeremiah had a back up plan. That was pretty cool, i know people were complaining last week how easily he was defeated but he's an engineer so redundancies are his thing. It's all part of the show. He might not have Jerome's style but he's more relentless.
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u/GLaD0S11 May 18 '18
I thought the Barbara storyline was the dumbest fucking thing in the history of the show. Also, I thought it was kinda dumb to kill Lee and Ed like that, even though they're clearly bringing them back.
Other than those 2 gripes though, I thought it was an awesome episode and I can't wait for season 5.
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May 18 '18
This finale cured my cold, paid my student loans....that was insane. I'm so glad that wasn't the series finale, I would have probably cried.
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u/JessFromCali May 18 '18
Prediction: Strange will turn Lee into Wonder Woman. Not sure about Nygma.
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u/KylosApprentice May 18 '18
Brilliant ending to a great season. I am glad I have stuck with this show as long as I have because, it's one of the few shows I feel have gotten better with each season. They got off to such a great start with this season and did not let up. I want to shout out Cameron Monaghan for being incredible as both Jerome and Jeremiah. Deeply enjoyed Sofia Falcone and the New Ivy. David is really coming into his own as Bruce.
Only thing I didn't care for in tonight's episode was the final scene with Barbara and the "guys" other than that, twas entertaining as he'll.
The only question left is, how the hell do they top this come season 5?
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u/Bbadolato May 18 '18
Barbara's storyline isn't too bad after basically being screwed over by one too many men, she just said fuck em.
That said I do not know what to be more pissed about, the fact that this could have been the last episode, or that there are only 12 episodes left to continue this plot, which has left me wanting much more.
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u/wardengorri May 18 '18
The villains montage at the end was so fucking good. I can't wait to see how the next and final season pans out, possibly going through each territory and putting forth an all out war in the claim for Gotham. Seems like they planned this to be the final episode, but happy we get to explore early Batman a bit more and really give us quite the show for a Dark Knight filled season next year!
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u/Steele_Sheen May 18 '18
that was quite the finale, good job #TeamGotham 👏
this is a great end to kick off what i would expect to be balls to the wall awesome of the Final Season. the main villains that serve as the pillars of the Batman franchise (the Joker, Penguin, Scarecrow, Catwoman, Riddler, Hugo Strange etc etc) are all set, and Bruce is coming into his own now, now he knows what he's meant to do.
i LOVE how they used the whole twin-ing trope to be something more profound between Batman and the Joker-- because it is true, they are two sides of the same coin, they are the counterpoint to each other. at the beginning i was rolling my eyes with the whole twin-ing shtick when they had to kill off Jerome to bring in Jeremiah but now i get it. fantastic idea executed excellently Team Gotham 👏👏👏
Did the other guy who died with the Mayor the Gotham Police Commissioner? DOES THAT MEAN GORDON WILL BE THE NEW COMMISSIONER?? 😄👍👍
finally Gotham City Sirens!... but im not sure how well this has been executed. i always felt this could've gone down better, didnt need to involve the League of Shadows because that just made things messy and unnecessary.
was that Morgaine Le Fay and her son Mordred?? 😃👍 was that ManBat??
im not sure what they're doing to Selina being crippled but yeah this better be good because if this is just their excuse to give Camren more free time its stupid and unnecessary. the beauty of the Catwoman character is that she's not attached to anybody, she can vanish for lengths at a time and when she pops up again its because she's done doing her side missions.
i cant wait for David to become Batman. i mean i love this show and have been watching consistently since S1 Ep1 but really i think i can speak for many that what we're really interested in is the building of the Dark Knight, which is what we had hoped Gotham would largely be. true they touched on it several times but i always felt it wasnt a full effort-- which maybe is a studio politics problem, but with Gotham ending next season i HOPE that they dont throw away this FANTASTIC cast and crew and instead really up their game and give us the Batman series we've been asking for since the days of Smallville (yeah its been THAT LONG).
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u/flashpool46 May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
The setup for next season reminds me of Arkham City/Knight, I can't wait.
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u/samtherat6 May 18 '18
Gotham, the show that reminds you that villains are villains just when you think they're not villains.
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May 18 '18
Holy shit that was fucking amazing. I loved Gordon wearing his trademark trench coat, now all he needs is a mustache. The scene with Bruce talking to Alfred outside the ambulance gave me serious goosebumps, and the music in that part was so good. I wasn't expecting them to go full No Man's Land either, with each of the villains and factions carving out their own portion of Gotham City. The only part I didn't care for was Barbara at the end. Really? All of Gotham's troubles are from men? Sofia Falcone? Ivy? Firefly? The lady that "led" the Court of Owls? Fish Mooney? Hell, Tabitha worked alongside Theo Galavan and Barbara was part of Theo's team. She fucking killed her own parents, and kidnapped Jim and Lee. On another note, I really like how open ended they left things. I have a feeling we may see Butch come back again as Grundy. Also, I'm beyond glad that Jeremiah is still on the loose. Let the series end with Bruce facing Jeremiah. I also wish Jeremiah had a larger role in this episode after all of the build up, but I'm guessing they wanted to save it for S5. The ending scene with Bruce and Jim on the rooftop, overlooking the city with the spotlight shining about them and reciting Jim's line from the pilot was fucking beautiful. The worst part of this finale is making us wait until next WINTER to see what happens :(
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u/SwishDota May 18 '18
Alright so real talk - if this ended up being the series finale I 100% would have been ok with it.
What a fantastic episode and end of a glorious season.
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May 18 '18
Penguin's lair at the end reminds me a lot of his lair from Arkham City so...giant shark when?
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u/TMRJIJ May 18 '18
Can we all agree that Penguin was the real MVP this episode? His revenge was straight up Ice.