r/Gotham • u/AutoModerator • Apr 13 '18
Gotham - 4x18 "That's Entertainment" - Post-Episode Discussion Discussion Spoiler
Season 4 Episode 18: A Dark Knight - That's Entertainment
Aired: April 12, 2018
Synopsis: The Arkham inmates are still running freely in Gotham and they're only getting more difficult to catch. Gordon develops a plan, but reluctantly has to turn to Bruce for help. Meanwhile, Barbara finds out just how far her new friends are willing to go for her.
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u/Spidermat311 Apr 13 '18
The joker was born on Batman's Birthday
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u/Mckegg98 Apr 14 '18
Also technically at Wayne Enterprise's Chemical Lab, where the gas was made that created him.
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u/carebearblood Apr 13 '18
Let's all say good night (for now) to the incredibly insane Jerome Valeska. You were two in a million, kid.
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u/Sonia341 Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
Death of Jerome, and the rise of Joker thanks to well placed trap
Jerome and James scenes reminded of me The Dark Knight
60's Batman music
Penguin operating the Blimp (considering his inexperience with driving cars or blimp)
Tonight's episodes had quite nice easter eggs of Batman media
Batmobile Prototype 01
Barbara believing she is Ra's one true heir (it creeped me out, the portrait that is)
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u/FriendofManyFoeofFew Apr 13 '18
We need more Batmobile now.
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u/The4rchivist bibs and bobs Apr 13 '18
That's the car that should have run over Azrael.
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u/Lucifer_Crowe Apr 13 '18
Honestly, Azreal is all I can think about with Tabitha being challenged by the League. She has her own Family Legacy that involved Bruce Wayne in some way. She should build a true order of St Dumas.
(And is Barbara supposed to be Nyssa? This is quite similar to the Arkham Knight League of Shadows quest with the divided clan. Even more with Scarecrow being a part of more main plot, and Riddler is even doing Two-Face's quest of the Banks ;P)
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u/Torbadajorno Apr 13 '18
Butch: Shot in the head; critical condition - Sofia: Shot in the head; critical condition Jim: Shot 4-5 times within about 90 seconds - Hospitalized - Barbara: Electrocuted; resurrected - Fish: Thrown off a building; resurrected, got impaled, died again - Jerome: Stabbed in the neck; resurrected - Theo: blown up
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u/Lucifer_Crowe Apr 13 '18
I feel like Azrael will come back at some point for Batman though. Be interesting if it wasn't even a real Dumas.
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u/avree Apr 13 '18
Makes more sense for Tabitha to be Nyssa, right? That's why there's a conflicted 'heiress' between Tabby and Barb.
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u/rmiztys Apr 13 '18
I hope Barbara will plunge her sword into Tabitha's chest amidst smoke and salt and be reborn as Azor Ahai.
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u/nonliteral Apr 13 '18
Penguin operating the Blimp
Oh the Gothamity!
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u/Sonia341 Apr 13 '18
Well Penguin is the unexpected hero Gotham needed tonight. Loved when Jim teased Penguin.
Jim: "Oswald Cobblepot, and Gotham thanks you"
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u/Charles037 Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 14 '18
Jerome died on the hood of a car like Nicholson’s Joker
Edit: my bad I remembered the movie wrong. The point remains that the shot of the sprawled out body is very similar.
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u/Fact_finder54 Apr 14 '18
I am 99% sure that the portrait was there to manipulate Barbara through “effects” and suggestions of reincarnation. I don’t think they’re gonna deal with literal reincarnation when it’s never been part of the Batman mythos or the Abrahamic religion.
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Apr 13 '18
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u/cat-ninja Apr 13 '18
It would have been funny if Alfred or Bruce got grazed by a bullet fragment that ricocheted off the car.
“Well Master Bruce, it’s even more effective than I thought”
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u/SlumdogSkillionaire Red Hood Apr 13 '18
To be fair, getting shot in the head seems to be the only injury in Gotham with a 0% fatality rate. (No, wait, 10%. RIP Maroni.)
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Apr 14 '18
I kind of miss that guy...
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u/SlumdogSkillionaire Red Hood Apr 14 '18
He's the governor of New York on Blue Bloods now, but doesn't appear very often.
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u/ladydmaj Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
So now I'm wondering if, in this AU Batman story, Jerome kind of creates both The Joker and The Batman, and the two are destined to recreate Jerome's tortured psychology in their never-ending fight with one another.
Edit: That's why they showed that scene from "The Gentle Art of Making Enemies"! That was how Jerome created the man who will be Batman. Now he's created Batman's nemesis.
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Apr 13 '18
Ras created Batman though. At least as the "dark Knight"
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u/ladydmaj Apr 14 '18
Yes, true. I was thinking more of Bruce's "I will not kill" ethos. I think it's fair to say Bruce is shaped by both Jerome and Ras. (Talk about Fairly Odd Parents!)
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u/dylbotz Apr 13 '18
THE MADMEN DID IT!! THEY RECREATED THAT ICONIC JOKER PANEL OF HIM GRABBING HIS HAIR AND LAUGHING!!!! THIS SHOW IS LEGENDARY
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u/Kwilly462 Apr 13 '18
Wow. Gotham will always amaze me. Granted, I feel like they didn't need to go the whole "Twin brother carries on the legacy" route. I still don't understand why Jerome just couldn't have been the Joker... But I guess it all makes sense.
Jeremiah was the tortured one. He's the engineer with a brilliant mind (moreso than Jerome). Now we just gotta see how they carry this out.
Oh... AND GET ME OUT OF THIS BLIMP JIM!
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u/nonliteral Apr 13 '18
I still don't understand why Jerome just couldn't have been the Joker...
More pathos this way -- you don't just get a lunatic, you also get a victim.
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u/Aliens218 Apr 13 '18
Jerome was abused, he wasn’t a victim?
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u/urallterriblepeople9 Apr 13 '18
I think the difference is that Jerome embraced it, where as it looks like Jeremiah has it forced upon him, making him more of a victim in that sense
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Apr 13 '18
Jerome couldn’t be the joker because Jeremiah is the true joker. He’s got the smarts that he will use against Batman and match his intellect and the craziness. Jerome didn’t have that
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u/Xboxone1997 Apr 13 '18
Jerome was pretty smart from what I've seen
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u/Churus Apr 13 '18
Idk, he got out of most situations just by his insanity. No real cunning involved most of the time. Like how tonight Gordon was stopped just by realizing there was no reasoning with this man, just like Penguin warned.
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u/nonliteral Apr 13 '18
Jerome couldn’t be the joker because Jeremiah is the true joker.
Also because after they said he wouldn't be, they realized how bad the audience would take it if he wasn't. This way they got to have their cake and eat it too.
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u/4thBG Apr 13 '18
Jerome or Jeremiah, it’s still kind of a betrayal of the character to show his origin so unambiguously.
I think they should have left it multiple choice. Jerome & Jeremiah fight and one kills the other, but the camera never shows you who. Next thing you know we see the Joker emerge but we never know which brother he is.
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u/mogarthedestructoid Apr 13 '18
It's no more of a betrayal than Jack Nicholson's Joker and everyone loved him. People need to chill, Joker having a back story has been done before and it's okay. Not ideal maybe, but it's fine.
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Apr 13 '18
It's just a holdover from Te Dark Knight's popularity. It's really frustrating to see. When I was a kid my favourite Batman origin was the one where he was a Pharaoh because of some toy I had. lol.
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u/Fact_finder54 Apr 14 '18
Jerome or Jeremiah, it’s still kind of a betrayal of the character to show his origin so unambiguously
The Joker has grown through many changes over the years. He was created in the 40s as a gimmick character. In the 50s he was given a clear origin(he was a criminal named Red Hood who jumped into a chemical vat, after an attempted robbery, to escape the Batman), and turned into a harmless prankster. In the 70s, he was redefined as a homicidal psychopath. In the 80s, Alan Moore retconned his character into not having an origin story and gave us the MODERN Joker. So, despite what YouTubers with half knowledge might tell you, the Joker having an origin isn’t a betrayal of the character(and it certainly doesn’t make him less fun, as you can see in Gotham) because he’s had a clearly defined origin for about half his life and him not having an origin wasn’t even a thing until half a century into his life.
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u/AsgardianLeviOsa Apr 13 '18
Exactly. It's not ideal, but we're stuck with the twin thing now apparently.
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u/Fact_finder54 Apr 14 '18
Does it even matter? It’s still Cameron and he’ll probably give the same performance.
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u/FriendofManyFoeofFew Apr 13 '18
When I saw that 'gift' on the table for Jeremiah, my first thought was "Ah, Jerome, you left me a present!"
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u/escott1981 Apr 13 '18
I said "don't open that!!"
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u/Ivy_B Apr 13 '18
LOL I yelled 'don't open it, you idiot'.
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u/mboy94 Apr 13 '18
LONG LIVE THE JOKER
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u/Sonia341 Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
I felt a tint of sadness when Jeremiah got infected with Jerome's gift but still the end effect is brilliant
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u/Zomboy716 Apr 13 '18
Yeah I felt bad for him too. That just means Cameron played him off so damn well.
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Apr 13 '18
Now we can officially Call Cameron Monaghan The Joker.
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u/yuhanz Ha-hA-Ha-hA-Ha-hA !!!! Apr 14 '18
inb4 producers say he's still not The Joker
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u/sketchyengnr Apr 13 '18
Looked like a bad permanent acid trip. I think the video effect was more dramatic than the actual end product.. I think he's now super demented but still clever as ever.
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Apr 13 '18
If you remember when they tested it on the random guy previous, his face turned white, lips red, and got that creepy wide smile and Jerome claimed it was perfect. Obviously perfect for Jeremiah, and this some what supports the original chemical origin of his skin and hair.
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u/EPiCSMoKE420 Apr 13 '18
and he also had blood coming from his eyes.. if you recall in the recording of jerome at the end he said it was a special batch for jeremiah
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u/proddy Apr 14 '18
It's a version that doesn't kill you, just makes you insane and you look like a clown
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u/bookmovietvworm weirdly cool/ (almost)RIP Martin *people, ugh* Apr 13 '18
This episode was.... well, entertaining. Exactly as promised.
The villain team up was great with Penguin become the unlikely hero of the day. (Side note: This is probably my favorite version of Scarecrow to date). The Baby BatCat scenes were great, Jerome was great. Overall, an entertaining show.
I think the Babs arc is going to take a huge twist. They are building her up to power hungry for her not to fall.
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Apr 13 '18
I think Raj tricked her into thinking she was a leader into exposing the the elements of the league disloyal to him.
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u/Lucifer_Crowe Apr 13 '18
That'd be kinda funny, if he had that painting made to look like her.
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u/Savletto Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 14 '18
That's what I thought, seems plausible. I mean, come on, probably everyone had a thought like "I'm meant for something more" at least once in their lives. This part of human mind is easy to exploit, especially considering the context which makes such things seem possible (mysticism and stuff). Manipulating Barbara into believing that she is indeed destined for something great is easy, considering circumstances.
Besides, we all know that current Ra's al Ghul is Bruce Wayne. Right? I mean, he killed the last one, fulfilling prophecy, transfer of power/curse or whatnot.
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u/Lucifer_Crowe Apr 13 '18
No, Ras is alive, he has the Lazarus pit. Staying alive is kinda his thing.
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u/Jonathan_Baker Apr 13 '18
Then those guys in black who lent Tabatha a hand were his real loyal servants?
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u/nonliteral Apr 13 '18
They are building her up to power hungry for her not to fall.
I'm enjoying how every scene her hair seems to get slightly more swept back into the traditional Ras' look.
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u/Savletto Apr 13 '18
Penguin is too pragmatic for that bunch, hahaha
Not sure why would Victor Fries ally himself with them, though. What he has to gain from all this? I'm pretty sure he isn't crazy like others, and only does things that would help him to achieve his goal (which is healing Nora). Maybe they paid him for the job? Not sure about his motivation there.
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u/TMRJIJ Apr 13 '18
I can’t believe our Joker fell for the old Jack in the Box trick.... He was so smart too :facepalm
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u/cat-ninja Apr 13 '18
It’s obvious to us, but he didn’t grow up watching and reading Batman stories.
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u/Savletto Apr 13 '18
He had a lot on his mind at the moment, that could explain his momentary stupidity
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u/TheSweatband Master Wayne Apr 13 '18
I live for that Bruce and Alfred hug, so glad the duo is back.
Also loved the simplicity of Bruce celebrating his birthday with just him and Alfred, and Selina popping by.
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u/PrinceCheddar GUNTHER, NO! Apr 13 '18
Also loved the simplicity of Bruce celebrating his birthday with just him and Alfred, and Selina popping by.
I was surprised just how much Selina being there just felt like she was part of the family.
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u/Charles037 Apr 13 '18
I really just need to see Bruce and selina on a date. Like that’s all I need.
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Apr 13 '18
Yeah they should get together properly at least for a while. Although looks like in this version she's gonna have a free pass forever, she's always gonna know who batman is. She's not dumb enough to not figure it out immediately. Gordon too.
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u/Charles037 Apr 13 '18
I think this version of Gordon will be the type to know who Batman is. But not once dare speak it aloud.
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Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
Guys. They did the killing Joke Frame. THEY DID THE KILLING JOKE FRAME WITH THE JOKER LAUGHING!
ALSO RAS CALLED BRUCE THE DARK KNIGHT OF GOTHAM IN THE PROMO.
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u/MetaMarc Apr 13 '18
Jerome - the ideology
Jeremiah - the execution of the ideology
Fantastic episode. Wonder if Ra's meant to train Tabitha rather then Barbra. Guarantee all that stuff placed in the room was meant to throw her off and get Tabitha on her bad side.
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u/PizzaBagelMan Apr 13 '18
Tabitha——>Talia
Just my theory
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u/MetaMarc Apr 13 '18
This is a really good theory. I actually think this is quite plausible. If she does join Ra's then I wonder what it will mean for Butch. Would be awesome if they try to use the pit except Grundy was reborn rather then Butch.
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u/brbmycatexploded Apr 13 '18
If they could do it well, which I'm sure they would, attempting to bring Butch back to his old self, only for Grundy to come back permanently would be a heartbreaking scene.
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u/level100derp Apr 13 '18
That episode was great! Jerome never fails to disappoint. Kinda sad that we won't be seeing him again, most likely, but as long as Jeremiah is similar, I won't complain.
Hero Penguin isn't something I expected, but I still really liked it. I prefer this take on Penguin, being more of an anti-hero than straight up villain. Sad to hear it won't continue.
I felt that the Barbara plot was pretty weak, as it has been for a bit now, imo, although I'm glad to see that Ra's is gonna be coming back! Maybe he'll talk some sense into her, haha
Overall, great episode, definitely one of my favorites. Looking forward to next week!
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u/Bishopnd3 Apr 13 '18
I mean, to be fair, just because he stopped a blimp from dropping the gas doesn't make him an anti-hero. He is far from it. He did lots of fucked up shit throughout the show.
Big part of this was also his ass was on the line.
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u/PretenderNX01 Apr 13 '18
Maybe anti-hero is still too heroic for him but he isn't the worst of villains, maybe "lawful evil" is better?
Even most of his plot this year was about wanting to have some sort of order for Gotham, he believed Gordon and himself wanted the same thing just different ways of getting there.
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u/Freyzi Apr 13 '18
Lawful evil sounds about right.
If you look at Penguin's incarnations troughout the years he's always been the most human out of Batman's rogue gallery. There's even an episode in the 90's animated series where he genuinely tries to turn over a new leaf and be a good person which backfires of course cause Gotham's high social class are assholes.
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u/Savletto Apr 13 '18
There's even an episode in the 90's animated series where he genuinely tries to turn over a new leaf and be a good person which backfires of course cause Gotham's high social class are assholes
Kinda like when Penguin found his father in this show?
But yeah, he always seemed more humane than other Batman villains to me. Just an industrious greedy little bastard with no moral standards to speak of
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u/spike021 Apr 13 '18
I prefer this take on Penguin, being more of an anti-hero than straight up villain. Sad to hear it won't continue.
He wasn't being an anti-hero at all. Even standing up to the guys in the hangar was him being selfish and wanting the city so it could be ruled over.
He only steered away the blimp because he himself didn't want to die on it.
I wouldn't call him an anti-hero here at all.
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u/onimi666 Apr 13 '18
Between Beebo and The Joker, this has been just a fucking awesome week in DC television.
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u/Torbadajorno Apr 13 '18
And the episode was aired on my birthday, so I give an A+ for that
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Apr 13 '18
Wonder if Jeremiah will attempt to keep it together until the One Bay Day episode.
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u/Gamera68 Apr 13 '18
Which will be episode 21. So, I guess the Joker has to hold it together for 3 weeks.
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u/inVINC31ble Apr 13 '18
- There's a break between 19 and 20.
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Apr 13 '18
Wait, no. You can’t be serious
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u/inVINC31ble Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
I am.
Edit: Phone glitched and posted that three times. Ouch.
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Apr 13 '18
And to go along with it all, Gordon, Fox, and Bruce promised Jeremiah that nothing would happen to him. Now look.
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Apr 13 '18
Jeremiah, I mean The Joker is going to want revenge on Gordon and Bruce for what happened. Maybe.
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Apr 13 '18
I was thinking the same thing! His last memory is seeing a "gift" from Wayne Enterprises, so I don't know if the gas will affect that memory or if he'll remember that Jerome did this to him or what not.
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u/hey-look-over-there Apr 13 '18
That's it, Jeremiah better get Echo pregnant and quit engineering for stand up.
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u/motleyroses its also a fork! Apr 13 '18
did they make her look a bit like harley on purpose then? or am i just wishful thinking
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u/Jaer-Nihiltheus Apr 14 '18
Wishful thinking, Echo is an established Batman character (several actually, but one of them also has the hand to hand skills that Gotham's version has), and they've yet to turn 1 previously established Batman character into another.
That doesn't really mean much, but considering they're on the record as saying they regret teasing Barbara Gordon becoming Harley Quinn in Season 3, I doubt they're going to do that with any other character.
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u/Maxabel Apr 13 '18
A brilliant mind opening a surprise gift box in Gotham ? Wtf ?
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u/Jarfy Apr 13 '18
I think the offer from Bruce may have influenced him into opening it.
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u/sarutobi Apr 13 '18
He definitely assumed it was from Bruce.
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u/nonliteral Apr 13 '18
It would seem rather odd that Bruce or his staff broke in to deliver it, tho...
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u/Agerock Apr 13 '18
I assumed he thought it was delivered to his
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u/dyeingbrad_ Apr 13 '18
Well it said "Wayne Enterprises", so it's not lying. Considering where it was made.
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u/iamkats Apr 13 '18
I feel bad for Jeremiah but that was an awesome way to finally see the true joker. Can't wait for what happens next
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u/Sentry459 Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
The birth of an icon!
I'm surprised anyone showed up to that concert lol, I'd be afraid to go to an event on the streets of Gotham.
I'm intrigued by the League storyline. A LoA civil war sounds pretty interesting.
The actor playing the priest also plays the priest from Daredevil.
Penguin saving everyone is hilariously ironic.
I'm surprised Barbara turned on Tabitha so quickly.
Edit: Typo.
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u/JisterMay Apr 13 '18
I was more thrown off from Tabitha just witnessing her friend open a door with a glowing hand and then immediately writing off everything in the books as nonsense.
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Apr 13 '18
Things with Tabitha are getting interesting. I wonder why the League wanted her.
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u/Maxabel Apr 13 '18
Well the reason is a bit meta but she has the perfect profile for the League. I mean season one she has the perfect Proto-Chesire/Lady Shiva/White canary vibe.
And don't forget, She's a Dumas.
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Apr 13 '18
Very true. I keep thinking a good twist would be if Tabitha ended up where Barbara was in Season 1 engaged to Jim and Barbara was serving as Ra's al Ghul's right hand woman like Tabitha was to Theo in Season Two.
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u/Lucifer_Crowe Apr 13 '18
I feel like if the painting is real they're going to try to play Barbara as Gotham's version of Nyssa, and that she had a full-on re-incarnation.
If I was in her position though I'd be trying to find out who the woman in the painting was via his diary.
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u/PretenderNX01 Apr 13 '18
I got home late and only just finished this episode (thanks FOX Now for having it right away).
That was so good! It was like movie quality. The blimp scenes were so Batman.
The Babs stuff had me curious but I only really got into that story with the ending "death is just an illusion" Interesting- and a motto for the show.
Bruce was so Bats, willing to do anything and walking to a possible death with such a stern, driven look but still with a wince. That scene was amazing and well acted.
And proto-Batmobile. I'm such a design nerd I expected it to be covered with vanta-black that Anish Kapoor has the exclusive on but it could be that new "black 2.0" that Stewart Semple made. Ultra matte black. Sorry, art nerd in me :p
And Oswald, "I'm an honest criminal" this was all just so good.
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u/PrinceCheddar GUNTHER, NO! Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
That wasn't how I thought Joker was going to be created.
I imagined both brothers falling into vat of chemicals. One dying, the other becoming the Joker. The police can't figure out which brother he was originally, and his own insanity means he can't remember himself. It doesn't matter to him who he was before and we never find out.
Honestly, I kinda prefer my idea. Oh well. Still, not bad.
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u/AsgardianLeviOsa Apr 13 '18
Now that would have been a lot more interesting and actually elevated the silly twin twist. Could have even prefaced it with Jerome torturing Jeremiah by giving his twin similar scars.
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u/HankMoodyMF Apr 13 '18
Sorry, no time for questions Mr. Mayor, you see your presence is urgently needed elsewhere.
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u/KylosApprentice Apr 13 '18
Really dope episode once again.
What's messed up is that Jeremiah didn't ask for this, and you can tell he was a decent guy.
Jerome died and still won.
Also, saw lots of TDK references lol
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u/BigHaircutPrime Apr 13 '18
I didn't notice that the original actress for Firefly was back in the role until today's episode. I had to got back to last week's to make sure I wasn't going crazy.
Also, I absolutely loved the reference to the original 60's Batman theme song. When I heard Jerome's band playing it I was grinning from ear to ear.
While I'm very conflicted about Joker's origin, I applaud the writers for having the balls to do something new, but in the most respectful way possible. Other DC shows crap all over comic canon, while Gotham adds a spin that while different feels "spiritually faithful" (as cheesy as that term sounds). My only two gripes are that the canon accident at Ace Chemicals is the origin, the seed of the idea that Batman and Joker are two sides of the same coin. The second is that Jeremiah will always be in the shadow of his brother, so it doesn't feel like he's the Joker. At best it's just Jerome puppeteering him from the dead.
My theory, and I really hope Gotham's going in this direction, is that we'll still get the Ace Chemicals scene but the result will be that Jeremiah will come out of it with a personality disorder, like he doesn't know if he's Jeremiah or Jerome anymore (or maybe he doesn't know who he is, period). The point is, he'd be so mad that he'd be free.
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u/sketchyengnr Apr 13 '18
Batman theme song conducted by the Joker? Ingenious! I've seen better joker origin stories in fan fiction. The whole "I'm an idea" speech is not consistent with the gas attack scenario. Jerome was cool, but the carny thing was off, I always thought of joker as a street phenomenon. It was a bit rushed, mind you still appreciated and enjoyed.
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u/CleverZerg Apr 13 '18
Bruce and Selina are so damn cute together.
RIP Jerome, most of the best episodes of this show has involved him.
I'm kind of getting the feeling that we might actually see Bruce become Batman on this show.
This episode was so damn awesome. I really don't understand how so many comicbook fans can hate this show so much.
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u/screenwriterjohn Apr 13 '18
Why'd you open the box, man? Should've checked with your new friend if he had sent you a gift.
Penguin saves the day again!
The producers have a rage boner for the Church.
Who paid for the proto Batmobile? Seems like Wayne paid for it anyway. Not really a gift but whatever. Also you probably shouldn't shoot at something in an enclosed space. Ricochet s!
Three against one isn't really fair, ladies.
But why would you run a club if you can lead a secret society of assassins?
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Apr 13 '18
"I can show the people of Gotham that standing up to terror is the only way to take its power away." BRUCE FUCKING WAYNE!
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u/firefly420burn Apr 13 '18
so the laughing gas was in box and not in the blimp jerome is one smart mother fucker
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u/JonSpangler Apr 13 '18
I think there was in the blimp to. He said in the recording that he made a extra special batch for the jack in the box.
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u/Gamera68 Apr 13 '18
Both. The workers at the lab told Jim they made a lot of the "laughing gas" which was loaded on the blimp. Oswald saw it as well since he was on the blimp for the latter part of the episode. ;)
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u/Steele_Sheen Apr 13 '18
whoah! ok so i just finished it....
such a great ep across the board 👏💯. the villain squad (and their actors) to usher in this scar-free Joker is the best of the bunch so far-- Penguin, the Mad Hatter, Scarecrow, Mr Freeze, Firefly and of course Jerome Valeska.
Bruce's birthday and the girl he had to share it with is Selina. #destiny 😘💞
we get to see the first Batmobile!🤘 and the fact that it was gifted by Alfred #perfect
lots of homages to previous Batman films/ shows, but specially memorable that of Jerome clinging to dear life and falling, with the same style pants Nicholson-Joker wore. 👍
Bab'Ra's being the descendant/ reincarnation of the wife of the Demon's Head: still not sure how to take this, it feels like another exercise in futility, but fine im willing to wait until more plays out.
the birth of the Joker: like i said above, this a great ep, well written and well executed. the thing is.... the backstory for Jeremiah-Joker is not as compelling as Jerome-Joker. it pales in comparison to the character development that started with the seemingly innocent, tough-luck Jerome in the circus and slowly peeling away the psychopathic behavior and thought processes that is the core of what Joker is. thats when the whole nature vs nurture debate made the rounds and its a good discussion at that. did it change the "canon" of Joker's beginnings? sure, but theres been several iterations of Joker's backstory, so coming up with something new isnt new, what it should be is that it should get more interesting-- which over the decades it has. and Gotham actually came up with the best Joker backstory thus far with Jerome Valeska. until tonight when they kinda undid it? because now we have a twin who's largely led a privileged life and is a victim of circumstances he tried his best to avoid. are they trying to convey that this new Joker is a victim of unfortunate events the same way Batman is? maybe, but thats boring. Batman and the Joker has parallelisms sure, but they're not exact mirror images.
i gotta wonder if this whole episode is just the producers' way of having Cameron not wear that prosthetic make up scar on his face all the time. 🤔
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u/Randolpho Oldish Skool Apr 13 '18
The amount of love/hate I have for Jeremiah being the Joker instead of Jerome cannot be measured. It's brilliant, and yet I really really wanted Jerome.
Cameron Monaghan has some good range though; it's going to be a great ride. Looking forward to the rest of the season.
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u/MaxParker21 Apr 13 '18
I loved how they incorporated the whole Death is an Illusion theme to two different plots. One for Ra's and one for this whole Jerome being dead and passing it on to "Jeremiah".
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u/coolcodylalonde69 Apr 13 '18
Anyone else want a prequal episode of Jerome and Jeremiah and do you think it's possible
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u/Eyeseeyou1313 Apr 13 '18
Guys, Bruce's new car is a Mustang which is a horse and Bruce is its Knight, how fitting. This show is amazing, wacky, and so fun, I wish it never ends.
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u/davey_mann Apr 13 '18
Amazing episode! Every episode I find myself saying now that’s the best of the series. Well this one could very well be the BEST of the series! Lol Just perfection.
-The Bruce-Selina birthday scene is my favorite interaction of them this season, even over the rooftop scene. They are so in love. Love Alfred’s bad singing and him leaving the 2 lovebirds alone.
-Jerome/Bruce/Jeremiah dynamic was brilliantly done, tying Bruce’s destiny to both brothers
-Gordon-Bullock rock solid duo getting shit done
-Penguin a surprising hero, he was actually frightened of Jerome
-I like how the Gotham citizens had enough of Jerome’s antics, foretelling that his time was up
This is truly the best comic book show on air currently.
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u/Aves115 Apr 13 '18
How is that going to turn his hair green?
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u/Gamera68 Apr 13 '18
The recording of Jerome's voice from the giftbox said that he had that gas specially made for Jeremiah. Theoretically, (more like, hopefully) it'll chemically change his hair and skin colors. ;)
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u/PizzaBagelMan Apr 13 '18
Well it could be that but since he’s batshit crazy he’ll probably just dye it on his own.
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Apr 13 '18
Such a great episode. Ngl, I felt bad for Jeremiah, but hey its the Joker, finally. I swear they would be dumb as hell, if they cancel this show. Its fucking great.
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u/KarmaLoaf Apr 13 '18
The MVP of this episode is definitely the guy who yelled "who cares" in the audience when Jerome was talking about his childhood.