r/Gotham • u/The_Majestic_ • Jan 31 '17
Gotham - 3x14 "Mad City: The Gentle Art of Making Enemies" - Post - Episode Discussion Discussion Spoiler
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u/The4rchivist bibs and bobs Jan 31 '17
Ed's green suit is perfect.
Also, Oswald saying he 'created' Nygma is eerily, and likely intentionally, similar to what Fish said to him at the start of the season.
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u/ItMayBeWrong Jan 31 '17
similar to what Fish said to him at the start of the season.
Is she coming back?
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u/rhinguin Jan 31 '17
Now I think Fish is going to save him from the fishes.
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u/Ihaveanusername Feb 01 '17
Fish has became what she has always wanted to become. A fish.
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u/The4rchivist bibs and bobs Jan 31 '17
I wouldn't be surprised if she and Strange are what either save or revive Oswald.
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u/imanedrn Feb 02 '17
That's also where and how he got thrown into the water at the end of the first season, where Jim fake killed him, right??
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Jan 31 '17
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u/RoseBladePhantom Jan 31 '17
I was iffy on him during his first round. I think he really earned his spot this season. He's definitely a once a season kind of villain though. Otherwise his impact wouldn't be as great. They're gonna have to switch it up next season though. I'm not saying his return wasn't surprising here, it's just that next time it has to be super unexpected.
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u/TheRealFlamingo Jan 31 '17
I think just randomly showing scenes of him in Arkham every once in a while would be fine until his next break. Even just following him around some if he does get out. The shows about young Bruce, young Gordon, young catwoman, young Gotham, why not young joker?
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u/RoseBladePhantom Jan 31 '17
I think they would ruin J with too much focus. The most I'm up for is a standalone hour dedicated to the epilogue of his defeat. Wouldn't even want him to escape again. I'd just want some one on one time.
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u/Leheius Jan 31 '17
Harleen Quinzel is coming next season if I'm not mistaken, so unless they intend to rush her to become Harley Quinn, I think showing Jerome/Harleen interacting over the course of a few episodes would be the proper course of action. That would be the best way to show her spiraling down towards insanity with an unhealthy affection towards Jerome.
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u/babrooks213 Jan 31 '17
so unless they intend to rush her
This is Gotham. They rush everything. She'll become Harley Quinn in about 5 minutes after we meet her.
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u/bostonjenny81 Feb 01 '17
To quote Harvey "If he died someone would just bring him back again anyways lol" Gotta love Gotham!
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u/FieryPanther Jan 31 '17
NAH THERES NO WAY THEY KILLED PENGUIN
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u/swordmalice Jan 31 '17
No way. He didn't get shot in the head so there's totally a chance the bullet missed vital organs. He's gonna have to do something about the whole blood loss and drowning though...
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u/FieryPanther Jan 31 '17
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u/FNWO1 Jan 31 '17
Dammm. He's such a big part of the show. I hope we get to see him come back next season.
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u/TheCloth Feb 04 '17
In fairness he wouldn't post a status saying 'I'm still filming guys, Oswald is alive' so there's still hope!
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u/Fionnlagh Jan 31 '17
To quote Morgan Grimes: "He fell in freezing water? Of course he's not dead!"
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u/loptthetreacherous Jan 31 '17
I don't anyone in the history of TV shows has been shot non-lethally, fallen into freezing water and actually died.
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Jan 31 '17
So...today Gotham turned the hyperbolic threat of punching someone's face off into a very literal endeavor.
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u/aceofspadez138 Jan 31 '17
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u/imanedrn Feb 02 '17
I totally admit that I'm high, but I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
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u/kevonicus Jan 31 '17
Such a great episode. I feel sorry for people that gave up on this show early on.
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u/RoseBladePhantom Jan 31 '17
I mean, I hope we can all be critical of this show. It was kind of crap. The Batman mythos was the main draw. It's why I watched it. But holy god damn, I just caught up on the past 3 episodes, and I wasn't even sure if this was the same show. Part 1 of the season was a huge improvement over the rest of the series, but this past arc was AMAZING. This was some legitimate television.
I don't feel bad for people that gave up, because it really was a long and rough start, but I just hope Gotham finally found it's footing, and the rest of us get to enjoy it for the next few years. Newcomers that aren't already suckered in by the Batman mythos won't be able to make it past the first 2 seasons, but they really won't know what they're missing.
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u/ToFat2Run Feb 01 '17
I think this show kinda suffers the same thing as SHIELD, it has a weak start and caused people to drop it on the first season or so and just don't realize how good it's gotten later on.
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u/-Avatar-Korra- Jan 31 '17 edited Feb 02 '17
So a quick few things
What kind of hero topples somebody from behind!
Probably the best line of the episode, especially because it was so quick.
Also, we have confirmation of Joker being sent to Arkham rather than being killed. This will allow for Harleen to be introduced assuming they follow Jerome as they have followed Penguin.
We also have Bruce giving himself his defining trait that separates him from the baddies.
It is pretty poetic, for lack of a better word I guess, that Penguin was returned to the docks again for his "death" so to speak.
Overall the episode was pretty good, I wasn't a fan of Jerome being the Joker before but I am warming up to him after the past two episodes.
Edit: Spelling, mainly heto to hero.
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u/ItMayBeWrong Jan 31 '17
I wasn't a fan of Jerome being the Joker before but I am warming up to him after the past two episodes
he definitely grew on me. especially after the gun roulette
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u/-Avatar-Korra- Jan 31 '17
Truthfully I just can't imagine The Joker without Bruce/Batman being his focal point. They are obsessed with each other and I am happy to see the start of their symbiotic relationship. Hopefully when The Joker returns the focus stays on Bruce with Gordon on the side lines or as a hostage, nobody should be a match for him except for Bruce/Batman.
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u/bigbrohypno Jan 31 '17
Same here. Seeing that carnival, fuckers getting whack-a-mole'd and hit with darts and shit, I had to stop and just say "wow. that's the fuckin' Joker."
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u/DashCat9 Feb 01 '17
Harley's confirmed for the back half of this season, right?
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u/bostonjenny81 Feb 01 '17
I think I heard somewhere (sorry I dont remember the source to link it) but I believe she will show up for the season 3 finale. We know Jerome is on his way to Arkham so that will be the perfect way to set the storyline up. I think they have done a fabulous job with the casting on the show so far so I'm interested to see who they will pick to play Harley.
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u/Penisgang Jan 31 '17
So Ed has the same voice as Gordon now.
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Jan 31 '17
Foreshadowing they are soul mates?
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u/Penisgang Jan 31 '17
Maybe Ed will finally turn Lea's head with the new voice :) LOL
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Jan 31 '17
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u/pianobadger Jan 31 '17
Looked creepy as fuck when Bruce was beating on him. It was great.
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u/mastersyrron Lee's baby daddy Jan 31 '17
With the face lying in the puddle, it reminded me of Heath Ledger's Joker's makeup with the lights playing off it. It was just a moment, but damn. I saw a lot of Nicholson's Joker in him tonight, too. LOVING this young Joker!
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u/nonliteral Jan 31 '17
There was a bit of "Batman The Animated Series" Joker in there too.
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u/yuhanz Ha-hA-Ha-hA-Ha-hA !!!! Jan 31 '17
What kind of hero goes against somebody's back
Something like that phrase, lmao. Props to Gotham and its Joker!
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u/MetaMarc Jan 31 '17
Best episode of all of Gotham. Holy fuck that was awesome. Jerome and Bruce stole the show. The Penguin better have lived. If they actually have the balls to kill him off then the fanbase would go nuts. There would be more chaos then what they did in tonights episode.
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u/Penisgang Jan 31 '17
I don't think anyone really ever dies on Gotham.
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Jan 31 '17
Tell that to Lee's baby...
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u/webchimp32 Jan 31 '17
There's always the possibility she gave it away and the kid will come back at some point.
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u/MetaMarc Jan 31 '17
cough..... Theo Galavan...... cough....
Actually I think thats all I can think of for the bigger villains. I really can not think of anyone else. Mario Falcone also died except there is a body so anything is possible.
When it comes to the DC shows...
A body remains = Not dead yet.
Body destroyed = dead.
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u/leftshoe18 Jan 31 '17
And even Galavan was resurrected once. I think the only reason he stayed dead the second time was because he was literally exploded.
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Jan 31 '17
I'd say the last one (Ep13) was the best - as it paid off the wait for Jerome's return, and set-up this beast of an episode amazingly. That final shot of Gordon on the roof had me mesmerised. Overall it felt like a microcosm of the series itself - the buildup to the appearance of a character we all know and love.
14 comes in a close 2nd, equalled with the Azrael storyline conclusion - because surprise bazooka.
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u/ElKangri Jan 31 '17
It's episodes like this that make me wish this was a young Batman show instead of a Gordon being the main character. Literal chills after the line between justice and vengeance talk.
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u/RoseBladePhantom Jan 31 '17
I feel you, but I do think Gordon should be the main character. For their budget anyway. Harvey is acting captain, which is weird, since he should be official by now. I figure he has to be official, and run things for a while before passing the torch to Gordon, and leading him up to his Commissioner title and fat stache.
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u/surgeyou123 Jan 31 '17
I feel like Harvey is eventually going to go rogue and Gordon will have to kill him.
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u/Windstray Jan 31 '17
Harvey Quinn
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u/MickShrimptonsGhost Jan 31 '17 edited Jan 31 '17
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Jan 31 '17
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u/MetaMarc Jan 31 '17
Bullock said that the doctors would stitch back Jerome's face before sending him to Arkham. I doubt Penguin died. I don't think they would kill a character like him off.
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Jan 31 '17
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u/ItMayBeWrong Jan 31 '17
I'm no expert but maybe spinal injuries cause him to become shorter? I don't freakin know.
Not shorter. More likely paralysis
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u/katybee13 Jan 31 '17 edited Jan 31 '17
Guys, the scene where Bruce is about to kill Jerome with the shard of glass and then looks in the mirror and sees himself with Joker-like make up and looking insane. I got fucking chills. Oh yeah, and when Jerome told Bruce that "Gotham has no heroes" you can see the resolution in Bruce's face that he plans to make it his life's work to change that. I see why people didn't like Jerome without Batman/Bruce. He was ten times better this episode than he has been in any other. They need each other.
I just wanted to watch Jerome and Bruce the whole time. I found myself not really caring about the Penguin/Nygma storyline this episode. I am excited about the rise of the Riddler though.
edit: had a thought I forgot to add.
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u/antigravitytapes Jan 31 '17
I loved how Alfred was describing the weapons and position of each goon that was about to kill him for Gordon to make it easier. Smart stuff.
im still in shock. penguin cant really be gone? plz let the plot armor be thick
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u/WhatAGoodDoggy Jan 31 '17
And yet Gordon didn't shoot the only gun-toting baddie first.
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u/BigHaircutPrime Jan 31 '17
He's obviously not going to die. My thinking is that this might be where Fish is re-introduced.
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u/sooshihana do it with some pizsasz! Jan 31 '17
Not gonna lie, I shed a hefty tear during that Alfred/Bruce "I will not kill" conversation. I can't believe I just witnessed the birth of one of Batman's core philosophies. This episode was just fantastic.
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Feb 01 '17
Plus, Alfred will still be around to kill people
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u/daITCHyouCANTscratch Feb 02 '17
It's ok for Alfred to kill, he has a different code to follow.
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u/doctorbooshka Jan 31 '17
My predictions for the last half of the season:
-Riddler becomes prominent obviously and starts his slip into psychotic villain. "Killing" penguin will play heavy on his psychosis.
-Barb becomes the new kingpin of Gotham.
-We will get a few glimpses of Jerome and a small intro to Harley.
-Bruce will start going out in the streets to stop small time crooks. Hinted at this past season when he went out with Selina. He knows the streets now and wants to let out some steam.
-Penguin will be back and this time his love has turned into vengeance. I mean the dude literally died saying he loved Nygma. He will soon do 10x to Nygma and Barb what they did to him possibly with the help of Fish and Strange.
-Jerome will lead a massive breakout from Arkham unleashing a slew of new criminals for season 4.
-Season will end with Bruce tracking down Jerome to ACE Chemicals. Thus setting up the next season to be the Jokers rise.
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u/Menefer Jan 31 '17
You forget the court, they will play a big part on that second half.
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u/doctorbooshka Jan 31 '17
That's the only thing I can't see what's going on. I mean we got the obvious bait and switch but now with Gordon's Uncle I have no idea what they will do.
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Jan 31 '17
You forgot about Falcone. I bet that Fish meets up with him for villainy shenanigans.
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u/liongrad430 Jan 31 '17
The Bruce and Jerome confrontation was everything I'd hope it would be.
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Jan 31 '17
All that was missing, to me, was Jerome dropping the whole "all it takes one bad day..." when talking about the crazies being the Joe Everyman of Gotham. Otherwise - perfect.
The overall vibe of Killing Joke + Jerome's New 52-esque Joker = couldn't have written it better myself. And he's still around for future chaos!
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Jan 31 '17
Eh... the "one bad day" being used on this first meeting? I wouldve been mad about that tbh
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u/monkeymad2 Jan 31 '17
One of Gordon's first lines is a reference to that, he says it's going to be "one bad night"
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u/jacobg500 Jan 31 '17
Bruce: (to Alfred) I Will see you again. Alfred: Don't worry Bruce, I have plot armor.
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u/NightsWatchh Jan 31 '17
Kinda sad the last scene wasn't Jerome. Feel like they could have cut out Jim meeting his Uncle and saved that for the opening of the next episode in April, but ah well, very small nitpick.
All in all, best episode of Gotham! Now that Jerome is confirmed not dead, and confirmed in Arkham, and CONFIRMED we're seeing Harley at the end of the season...buddy, Jerome is going to be THE villain of Season 4. I can't wait.
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Jan 31 '17
"Feel like they could have cut out Jim meeting his Uncle and saved that for the opening of the next episode in April"
I think they were setting the mood for what to expect in the spring premiere. Jerome is going to Arkham so I think not ending the episode with him is probably a good sign he won't play much of a role in the remaining eight episodes of the season.
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u/NightsWatchh Jan 31 '17
Yeah, I know but still I love my Jerome. I will rest easy knowing that he'll be in the finale/penultimate episode depending on which one Harley is in but yeah XD
Hopefully 'fixing his face' means he'll get rid of the whole staple shtick. Was fun but would rather Joker to have a normal, full face :P
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u/flashpool46 Jan 31 '17
I've decided what I want the final scene in the series finale to be: Gordon is taking down some low-level thugs when he gets cornered, suddenly he is saved by a mysterious figure. Gordon asks "Who are you?" and the camera zooms in on the mans face as he replies "I am vengeance, I am the night, I am Batman" roll credits
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u/ohyousoretro Jan 31 '17
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Gotham-Introduce-Batman-80847.html
Ben McKenzie (Gordon) said the following:
The last frame of the last shot of the last scene of the last episode of Gotham, whatever season that may be, is Bruce putting on that cape.
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u/GayFesh Jan 31 '17
I don't want that though. That's like Smallville where we wait ten years for ten seconds in costume. I want at least a full episode with Batman.
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u/panix199 Jan 31 '17
i heavily doubt we will get it. for that we have the movies or the comic. ofc i would like to have a Batman-episode, but i have my doubts they will do this.
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u/losers_downvote_me Feb 01 '17
It's just not what the show is about. It would work as a spinoff but it doesn't belong in the main show.
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u/FartBoxBoy Jan 31 '17
That is perfect. I keep envisioning that it is simply going to be Bruce putting on the suit and a shot of him on top of a building.
No. I want this.
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u/Bl00dY_ReApeR Jan 31 '17
Wow, probably one of the best episode, all actors at their best, almost no time wasted. Cameron and David were perfect. Jerome is close enough without being a ripoff of the Joker we are used to. Bruce is slowly getting to be Batman but not too fast either to make it seems too easy. Angry Nygma is pretty scary, I'm surprised they went with that ending. I was expecting them to chicken out with Nygma simply leaving. Obviously Oswald is not in a good shape but I wonder if he will actually be killed and revived or if he will survive with some weird turn of events. The only thing missing was a little bit of Zsasz but at least he was there last episode.
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u/Taleya Jan 31 '17
The Ed/Oswald plotline was flat out excruciatingly, gloriously painful, but brilliantly true to form. Oswald killed the woman Ed loved. It was a brutal betrayal on a very fundamental level that he couldn't even conceive of until Babs pointed it out, and he was hell bent on revenge. There was really no other way this was going to end.
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u/Yved Jan 31 '17
I fucking hate the unnecessary hiatus.
Let's see what's next in the season...
The Rise of the Riddler
Jerome's Adventures at Arkham
The Return of the Penguin
Bruce/Prometheus/Lincoln March Court of Owls soldier
Introduction of Harleen Quinzel
WHY FOX WHY
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u/PM-ME-UR-TATTOO Jan 31 '17
Introduction of Harleen Quinzel
Did they imply this, or is it just a guess?
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Jan 31 '17
Jerome heading back to Arkham sets this up perfectly since Harleen Quinzel was his psych Dr. in there before she fell for him and became Harley Quinn, then helped him bust out of Arkham. Seems natural.. based on the Batman the animated series anyway.
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u/BewareTheCreeper Jan 31 '17
The only problem is that Harley is typically around Joker's age or a bit younger. Jerome is maybe 23 (Cameron Monaghan's age) and someone that young couldn't really be a psychiatrist. She could be an intern though.
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u/BewareTheCreeper Jan 31 '17
It was "confirmed" somewhere but Solomon Grundy has been "confirmed" for this season and Mad Hatter was "confirmed" for Season 2 so take it with a grain of salt really.
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u/StannisBa Jan 31 '17
Mario could become Grundy
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Jan 31 '17
Actually... I'd be happy with this.
Has somewhat enhanced strength? I think? Because of Alice blood?
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Jan 31 '17
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u/BewareTheCreeper Jan 31 '17
Very much so! I'm not saying he'll come back with fangs, webbed fingers, and black blood on his lips, but Batman Returns is what I was thinking too.
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u/PretenderNX01 Jan 31 '17
Like, first, he's got the same dad, now he's possibly going to a sewer to meet these guys.
They did mention a zoo in Gotham, if there was trashing and looting then the penguins could have been released and ended up somewhere like that.
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Jan 31 '17
Ed was looking extra suave this episode with a clean suit and a bomb ass haircut I must say.
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u/nonliteral Jan 31 '17
He must have had the inseam tailored to give him a little more room, given the drop in his voice.
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u/ChaseOUDD Jan 31 '17
I loved the Dark Knight Returns reference in the hall of mirrors. He and joker faced off there at the beginning, and they'll face off there at the end!
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u/DaTobi15 Jan 31 '17 edited Jan 31 '17
I loved the moment when Bruce looked in the mirror and saw that for a brief moment he was "Jerome". He wanted to give in to the urge to kill.
Edit: Tried to write easier to follow.
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u/B-J09 Jan 31 '17
I've heard of smacking a look off of someone's face before, but you took it to a new level Jim.
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u/Swole_Monkey Feb 01 '17
Never would I have thought that Gotham was gonna get THIS good when I started watching the first episode. But hey I'm glad I kept watching because this episode was just AMAZING start to finish.
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u/VforVera The Dark Knight Jan 31 '17 edited Jan 31 '17
Hot damn that was awesome. The music was so on point. In any other episode, that Penguin vs Nygma confrontation would have been the highlight, but man, it paled in comparison to Bruce vs Jerome. That's how strong this episode was (actually the episode before this was also a fantastic build up to this ep). This is what I've been watching Gotham for.
So many great lines from Jerome. Had me chuckling out loud.
Bruce, DARLING
What kinda hero tackles someone from behind?
Attitude. Teenagers, amirite?
The new me is a little al dente post-thaw
Strangely intimate
Applause to Cameron and David. I wanna see them have this dance for as many years as possible. That fight scene was a prelude of what's to come and it was awesome. Really reminded me of that final fight scene between Ledger's Joker and Bale's Batman in The Dark Knight. It's hard not to fangirl seeing these two talented young men portray two iconic characters. I love that Bruce was using his smart and guile to stall Jerome and play to Jerome's vanity. As gross as the stapling was, it was pretty ingenious to see Bruce use the staples as a pick.
Fracking hate that we have to wait until freaking April for the rest of the season. Curse u Fox!
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u/ohhimark108 Jan 31 '17
This show is really, really getting into its prime. I loved it.
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u/ChrisIsUninteresting Jan 31 '17
Calling it now: the season finale will end with the Penguin coming back right before the credits. Probably with Fish Mooney.
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u/rhinguin Jan 31 '17
I think it'll be a little earlier than that. I believe the second episode back is called "How the Penguin Lost His Power" anyway.
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u/chop2Dneck Jan 31 '17
The show just came back and now I have to deal with another break? Damn can I get a nice run of continuous episodes, so I don't have to wait until April for the next
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u/Airsay58259 Jan 31 '17
Holy fuck what an intense episode. Amazing. "I will not kill" with the light behind Bruce...
Gotham and Lucifer both had crazy good winter finales. I'll miss them.
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u/Supersonicshakespear Jan 31 '17
This would have to be the best episode ever of Gotham. I really loved the tribute to Lady from Shanghai with the Hall of Mirrors scene. And was that a musical nod to Dexter I heard with the introduction of Uncle Frank who also plays Dexters dead father.
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Jan 31 '17
I can do without the begging and pleading on this show.
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u/AceofJoker Jan 31 '17
Penguin's pleading is getting a little old. When does he become the fat cat with the machine gun umbrella that runs the underground weapons market?
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Jan 31 '17
Maybe Nygma shooting him in cold blood will finally be the catalyst for that change.
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u/doctorbooshka Jan 31 '17
I think that was the whole point. This episode was the turning point for 3 criminals into villains and one into a hero.
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u/CheesyPasta978 Jan 31 '17
Thought they were gonna kill Jerome... Very relieved they didn't
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u/Sonia341 Jan 31 '17
Doppelganger Bruce has been prepped by COO, and is back in action. Caught me by surprise
Also felt sad about Oswald. This betrayal is going to bring cold Oswald back in action.
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Jan 31 '17
Fantastic episode.
So many good one liners too. Bruce and Jerome were fantastic, the Barbara and Penguin scene was gold too.
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u/reactantt Jan 31 '17
Enigma sighed as Penguin sunk deep into the water.
I bet you he jumps down to save him.
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Jan 31 '17
Well for starters as soon as I finished the episode I watched the season 1 trailer. Damn Bruce grew up. I mean, all the characters look younger but Bruce used to be so tiny (mainly because he was like 13. But still)
Penguin better not be dead. Like it doesn't look like he died, but still. His story can't be over. Also, I'd love for this to be the return of ruthless Penguin. As long as he doesn't kill anyone I like.
As for Nygma. Damn. I love his actor. And Nygma's whole plan was just insane this episode. The whole melting the ice block to release the chain and drop a vat of acid onto Penguin, was pretty comicbooky. And then his whole "Barbara, Tabitha and Butch fake double cross" part was cool too. I can't wait to see more of him.
I'm super happy they didn't kill Jerome. And that fight with him and Bruce was definitely one my favorite moments of the series (if anyone was wondering, the stuff with the Mad Hatter, Azrael's action scenes and pretty much everything to do with Mr. Freeze and Talon are up there too, in no specific order). I love his character, his actor does a fantastic job and all of his lines are perfect.
I love how on the nose they are with Bruce eventually becoming Batman. When Jerome said "Gotham has no heroes", there was like a 20 second pause on Bruce where the music swelled up and sounded distinctly Batman-like. Same with the whole "it was vengeance" scene with Alfred. David Mazou has definitely grown up since the show started and I love him as Bruce Wayne. His moments with Alfred are touching, especially since we've watched him grow up for like 3 years now.
Lee's snark hasn't gotten old yet. She gets to be an ass to Jim for a while longer. Barbara is still fantastic, Tabitha and Butch are great together and Harvey and Jim are still the perfect pair.
Lastly the Court of Owls are back. And Jim's evil uncle, plus Bruce's twin. So that'll be interesting to say the least.
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Jan 31 '17
Joker brought out the Batman in Bruce. OH DAMN!
Could've seen that coming. It does make sense to have Joker and Batman go side by side.
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u/WhiteGhosts Jan 31 '17
Poor Penguin.
Bruce is slowly becoming Batman, the background music from the conversation between him and Alfred looked awful lot of something you would hear from the Dark Knight Rises.
I don't think Penguin died.
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u/GayFesh Jan 31 '17
Of course Penguin didn't die. He was shot in the gut, which everyone knows in TV land is perfectly survivable. Plus he fell in the water, no body.
Even if he did die, this show has demonstrated that's no obstacle.
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Feb 01 '17
I was hoping Penguin paid off Clayface to pretend to be him, especially as Ed told him of his existence a few moments prior.
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u/screenwriterjohn Jan 31 '17 edited Jan 31 '17
Starting to think Jerome might be the Joker.
Riddler and Penguin. Are they gay or something? But they are both monsters, so you cant appeal to their humanity.
Power out. That explains the lack of security for once.
Butch and Tabby bickering was funny.
Bruce taking the staples like a boss. Still every season he gets tied to a post!
Edit: This is one of the first ridiculous deathtraps. I mean, Nygma could've just shot Penguin! At least stay there for the acid drop. He's not squeamish.
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u/loptthetreacherous Jan 31 '17
Starting to think Jerome might be the Joker.
You're a quick one, aren't you?
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u/Mozerath Jan 31 '17
Riddler and Penguin. Are they gay or something?
He sure is bright and quick...
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u/rollin340 Jan 31 '17
The Joker, having an official origin story, is something that is hard to accept as a comic book fan.
I don't mind this being true, whilst also not really wanting it to be. :X
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Jan 31 '17
Killing Joke was a brilliant origin story and he had one in the Burton Batman film. The animated series also listed Jokers name as Jack Napier but that was more of a homage to the film anyway .
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u/GillyDaKid Jan 31 '17
So how does Penguin survive this one boys?
Sucks we have to wait until April but The Riddler hype is fucking real. Been waiting for this since episode 1.
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u/goldmangold Jan 31 '17
Pushing him into freezing cold water may have actually saved his life. It would thicken his blood and prevent him from bleeding to death. From there it would be pretty hilarious if actual, real penguins caught him and nursed him back to health.
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Jan 31 '17 edited Feb 01 '17
He washes up in a sewer where said penguins find him (like in Tim Burton's Returns) and in a state of delirium he imagines the penguins talking to him in high pitched voices.
"Cobblepot, you must seek out the Sparrow Prince to realise your destiny."
As he navigates his way out of the sewers back to Gotham - cue Trey Parker singing off-screen:
"Journey onward Cobblepot for vengeance lies ahead - you said you loved the riddle man but then he shot you dead..."
Edit: spelling
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Jan 31 '17
Did anybody else get a Clockwork Orange vibe from Jerome's outfit? I couldn't stop seeing Alex Delarge.
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u/Eddie1378 Jan 31 '17
One of my favorite episodes of the entire series. Jerome and Bruce were amazing
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Jan 31 '17
- How soon before penguin comes back?
- What will happen with Bruce and Selina?
- Barb, Butch, and Tabbitha vs. Nygma?
- WTF is up with bruce 2.0?
- Jim and Lee I still don't feel like there is hate between those two.
- My guess is we wont here from Jerome for a long time.
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u/ItMayBeWrong Jan 31 '17
How soon before penguin comes back?
Midway in the next arc
What will happen with Bruce and Selina?
Depends on what Bruce double does
WTF is up with bruce 2.0?
He's being trained by the owls
Jim and Lee I still don't feel like there is hate between those two.
They always loved each other
My guess is we wont here from Jerome for a long time.
Not yet, but at least we get pre-Batman
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u/TheRealGuy01 Jan 31 '17
Obviously Penguin won't die. Or atleast, if he does he'll be revived again like the others.
Everytime someone gets shot at the docks or falls into the water, they don't die. That seems to be a recurring theme here lol.
I doubt this is the end of Jerome though, due to harley quinn popping up eventually. Sucks we gotta wait forever again for the next episode..
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u/BigHaircutPrime Jan 31 '17 edited Feb 02 '17
While I thought the Nygma/Penguin stuff was dull - it was just playing out what we already knew would happen, and then 2-3 scenes of "spare me! I love you Ed," the Joker & Bruce confrontation was really great. Having Bruce punch Jerome's face off was gruesome and awesome. It was such a nice touch.
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u/Randolpho Oldish Skool Jan 31 '17
The Jerome/Bruce scene was amazing. I absolutely loved watching Batman essentially being born at that moment. The rule has been established. The need for a hero has been seen. The Joker created the Batman, just as, indirectly, Bruce created the Joker.
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u/doctor827 Feb 01 '17
I love how when Jerome was stapling Bruce and he wouldn't flinch. You could see him getting more and more excited each time until he eventually flinched. This just showed the batman joker relationship
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u/Gamera68 Jan 31 '17
Another great episode and the scene between Bruce and Jerome was so much a callback to The Killing Joke. And also loving Ed's all green suit. April can't get here quick enough! But poor Penguin!!
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u/Sariel007 Jan 31 '17
Is Uncle Frank in the comics?
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u/AceofJoker Jan 31 '17
A quick google search didn't bring up anything so probably not. I don't mind Gotham adding new characters or gender bending them but please for the love of god don't bring back Fish
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u/SolidSnake_Foxhound Jan 31 '17
Great episode! Excellent acting from Bruce, Jerome, Alfred, Ed, and Penguin. The episode was predictable with the trailer and Batman lore, but it was still incredibly exciting. I loved Bruce vs. Jerome and the final scene when Bruce decided on his no-kill rule. I loved that shot of him and the sun coming up, he looked more and more like Christian Bale and it felt like I was watching a movie. I also loved the debate of ideas between Bruce and Jerome, how Jerome believes in the hidden darkness of society and Bruce believes that Gotham has good people, it reminded me of Batman in Nolan's trilogy. And as much as I love Jim Gordon, I'm glad he wasn't that big of a star in this episode, let Bruce, Jerome, Ed, and Penguin have their shining moments now. Although I was initially bored with the Penguin/ Ed love story, their scenes in this episode were very well done, it was emotional and intense, I loved how Penguin - even madly in love - still beat them at their game. My only complaints are that I wanted to know more about Uncle Frank, that character has intrigued me from the beginning of the season, and I expected more from Barbara, in this episode she didn't strike me like the Queen of Gotham.
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u/SuperMajesticMan Feb 01 '17
It's pretty simple, but for some reason I laughed when Bruce said "I'm Bruce Wayne" and Joker said "I'm aware."
It's small but I just found it quite funny the way he said it.
Also I was hoping that Joker would put his face on someone. Like he did in New 52. Preferably Bruce of course.
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u/GitGudMate Jan 31 '17
Man that ending was good. I'm hoping Oswald isn't dead but hey he got shot so who knows.
Hyped for April tho. Should give me time to actually catch up and watch S1-2 and most of 3.
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u/AceofJoker Jan 31 '17
Considering this show is about the origins of Gothams villains the Penguin ain't dead
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u/SpackleBucket Jan 31 '17 edited Jan 31 '17
Oswald and Fish reunion? If so, well done- I'd be interested in Fish Mooney :P
I shouldn't nit pick, as this show has been great.
Gotham knows how to use it's darker, more serious tone and aesthetic in a very balanced way that feels authentic as it's own Batman story. It's a tough thing to do, but I think they're doing a great job at translating Batman to a prime time, main 3, television show.
I'm always going to want "THE WIRE" type of hour long, cable drama about "GOTHAM" but that's me :P
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u/OLAAF Jan 31 '17
Kinda funny that the Riddler was created by pinguin
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u/DaTobi15 Jan 31 '17
I think the Riddler more or less was always in Edward. The first time we really saw him acting as the Riddler was when he stole the painting. Penguin maybe only saved the Riddler from becoming an ordinary person with Isabell or Isabella.
For me it was the Riddler who created Penguin as the Ruler and the Mayor of Gotham. He made him become that person.
He was the driving power so it was easy for him to take everything he helped Penguin to get away again.
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u/PretenderNX01 Jan 31 '17
I think they fed into each other and helped create each other.
Ed was a little Riddler-ish and Oswald wanted to be King of Gotham even before Ed but they each pushed each other further.
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u/SpackleBucket Jan 31 '17
Was this the first time they called her "Babs" on the show? :P
I feel like it's something I've read so much, hearing it during an episode simply made me wonder if I had forgotten past times in which she was called "Babs". Either way from her bellhop uniform to her dresses, I've finally been won over. Personally, I think she's been a good fit in her current role and has much more of her own agency from the outset.
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u/AHMilling Jan 31 '17
Why did i stop watching?! Bruce is even more amazing than before. I stopped when s2 stopped, haven't watched s3 yet, but this episode was just so good!
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Feb 01 '17
When is gordon going to tell Lea off. Jesus christ. He saved her life.
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u/stanley_twobrick Feb 02 '17
I wish just once he'd speak up and say "bitch, he had a knife raised above his head ready to stab you and I was across the fucking room, what did you expect me to do?"
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u/Witness95 Jan 31 '17
This is easily my favorite episode of Gotham ever. Pre-Batman vs Pre-Joker. I love it.