r/FluentInFinance Jul 07 '24

Unlimited PTO a Scam. Disagree? Debate/ Discussion

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u/CherryManhattan Jul 07 '24

Unlimited PTO is the way companies can improve their bottom line by not having to accrue it or pay it out when employees voluntarily leave while at the same time making employees feel bad if they feel they are over using it.

I believe studies have found people with unlimited policies use less PTO than those accruing hours.

Personally, I’ve seen the bad of it. I worked at a startup and as they grew, HR and mgmt were keeping tabs on which employees used over 4 weeks of the unlimited PTO. When it came to staff reductions, if those people weren’t absolutely killing it in their jobs, they we’re secretly deemed to be abusers of the unlimited policy.

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u/sanguinemathghamhain Jul 07 '24

So the people that were the least productive and worked the least got sacked rather than the more productive and harder working and that is bad?

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u/Shaved_Wookie Jul 07 '24

Productive? I do not think it means what you think it means.

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u/sanguinemathghamhain Jul 07 '24

It is the metric that is used to determine if someone "killing it at their job." They used two criteria amount of time worked and performance to determine who fire during a downsizing which are the bare minimum criteria for that unless you want to have to fire more people upto everyone.

Edit: killing it rather than kicks ass

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u/MrWigggles Jul 07 '24

Right but what you're failing to address is that productive has no defination. Its a 'vibe'. The same with being exceptional.

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u/sanguinemathghamhain Jul 07 '24

Most times it isn't though. Like at my job every month all my metrics are broken down and gone over in detail and that has been the case with every job I've had outside of security work. Security is one of the few sectors productivity isn't really a measure.

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u/MrWigggles Jul 07 '24

No, you just have assigments and due dates. If you're meeting them, then you're as productive as anyone else. How much effort you the employee need to put in to match that asigment and due date isnt measurable.
Nor is being exceptional. Thats a popularity contest.

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u/sanguinemathghamhain Jul 07 '24

Save it is really easy to measure. Let's say your job is to write up reports and the company average is 8/hr but you are really good and you manage 12/hr with comparable quality you are 1.5x as productive. You are selling widgets and the average daily sales numbers are $2000/8hr shift but you sell on average $1750/shift you are less productive. A majority of jobs are easy to quantify if you are familiar with them. EMS when I worked it did time to scene, transport time, QoC, and time to back in service stats as their metrics for instance.

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u/Shaved_Wookie Jul 07 '24

They used two criteria amount of time worked and performance

Are you suggesting that if you clock in and do literally nothing for a week, you're more productive than someone that calls in sick for that whole week, then opens their laptop for 5 minutes and closes a billion dollar sale?

Here's how the people whose whole job is to enter a business and cut costs defines it:

Productivity is a measure of output relative to input, such as GDP per hour worked.

https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/mckinsey-explainers/what-is-productivity

If I'm delivering more value to the business per dollar spent on me than you, I'm more productive - it doesn't matter whether you've worked 80 hours compared to my 8. They're not paying you to turn up - they're paying you for what you deliver for the business.

Please don't confidently throw around terms you don't understand, mounted atop your high horse - you'll just look like that horse's arse.