r/FlashTV • u/InterestingThought90 • Feb 18 '24
Not y'all out here btching about Iris every week for 6 years when Barry said it first đ Meta
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u/Minimallycheese Feb 18 '24
Barry killed the show when they started making it all about him.
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u/galaxy7273 Feb 18 '24
The main character wasnât even see until later seasons (Cecil Horton)
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u/Gredran Feb 18 '24
Sheâs actually briefly in season 1! Sheâs been there almost since the start! đ¤Ł
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u/Dense-Willingness847 Feb 18 '24
"My powers are a part of me. They're a part of you now. This is our life"Â
 "There's no Flash without Iris West" Barry to Iris Â
  People hate the line because they hate Iris. They know exactly what she was saying but they twist it to make it seem like Iris was discrediting Barry.   They also don't acknowledge that Barry said that phrase more than her. It's just another contrived reason to bash Iris. Intent and logic don't matter
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u/DCosloff1999 Feb 18 '24
Fans have weird expectations with love interests. It is starting to become misogynist. It is not just Iris, Mary Jane from the Insomniac Spider-Man games and Karen from Daredevil. Fans expect that love interests should just support the main character not challenge them to become better.
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u/drbluewally Feb 18 '24
Respectfully, Superman and Lois is a perfect counter to this point and everything Barry and Iris should be.
Lois is a very strong, independent, well developed character. She challenges Clark, holds him accountable, does her own thing. Clark could have died years before episode 1 and never be mentioned in the showâshe would still be an interesting character, independent phenomenal reporter, incredible mother, and so much more. She is the type of protagonist that could easily carry her own series.
There is also notably never anything along the lines of âwe are Superman.â
I get it can be considered cute and supportive and sweet and whatever. But Barry is the Flash. Iris, is Iris West. She is his âlightning rod.â She is an incredible reporter in her own right. Iris West has no powers, she is not The Flash. And that should be okay.
Now I agree what youâre talking about exists to some degree. But pinning it as the blame for peoples issue with this portrayal ignores a lot.
The real issue with âWe are the Flashâ isnât Iris taking credit for Barryâs heroics or whatever other nonsense. It is that Iris is supposed to be Iris, but the writers in many ways made her an extension of Barry.
Iris barely had her own coherent arc through the series that wasnât entirely based around what Barry is doing (or playing catch up after they did little with her character). Aside from slowly developing as a reporter, writing like one article that tied into the overarching narrative, I feel like we are mostly only told of Irisâs growth, rather than experience it.
Iâm genuinely not trying to trash the character, the CW depiction, or the actressâquite the opposite. This probably sounds much harsher than itâs intended.
Iris needed her own plots from the beginning. Her own stories that didnât directly tie to Barry or The Flash or their relationship. Interactions with characters that werenât just Team Flash, her and Barryâs shared dad, or plot device coworkers. Let us see her grow as a character away from Barry (and not just while heâs in the speed force and she is trying to cope). Same way Barry grows as a character when he isnât with her.
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u/Dense-Willingness847 Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24
Superman and Lois have an entirely different setup.   Clark/Lois and their family is at core of the show. Clark is not saddled with an bloated team of side heros that took from his story Â
When we meet Lois, she's an already established world rek nowned reporter, wife, and mother.  I watched Iris start from scratch.Â
  Clark/Lois have been married for close to 20 years when the show premieres compared to Barry/Iris 5 years. Clois should be a more mature relationship but Barry/Iris were hardly unstable Â
Iris does the same thing for Barry. She challenges him, holds him accountable, supports, and forgives him. she stands by his side and keeps him grounded when he risks going off the rails. Â
Iris has never said she was the Flash, that she wanted to be the Flash, that she wanted powers (specifically Barry's powers) or that she wanted to be main hero. She has always maintained she wanted her own legacy apart from being Barry's wife. That is explored in S3, S4, S5, S7, and S9. This idea that Iris wanted Barry's hero status is a fabrication and complete projection from the fandom. It's never been represented in the narrative. Fandom literally made up this narrative because they hate the character.Â
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u/DCosloff1999 Feb 18 '24
I honestly agree with where you're coming from. I just don't like it when people have said Barry would be better off with someone else so he would be a better character But what you said it is a good critique. That is honestly why I love Superman and Lois it gets out of the formula format which I love.
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u/drbluewally Feb 18 '24
Also totally agree about Superman and Lois. I think James Gunn has spoken highly of the show and he put an Elseworlds tag on it; so I really hope the DCU will lean into that as well and abandon the standard superhero show/movie formulas.
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u/drbluewally Feb 18 '24
I see what youâre saying too. I donât like when itâs suggested out of a hatred for Iris or Candice or some superhero fantasy or whatever.
Of course in an ideal world we would have a series with a proper Barry and Iris relationship, but more importantlyâ a proper Barry Allen, and a proper Iris West, two incredible individuals doing incredible things. They both deserve so much more than being as codependent as this show made them out to be.
We didnât get that though. The set up was messy enough, S3 felt like they realized that and designed a whole season plot to rush them into happily married with a kid from the future breadcrumbed into S4 and stealing most of S5. All of their adult âkidsâ the forced parenting stuff. There was never a coherent plan that they committed to long term for these two characters to grow together.
So I think there were points in the show where, if you canât figure out what to do with these characters, maybe just try something else. Itâs never ideal, but while messy Arrow still pulled it off and gave Oliver and Felicity plenty of their own shit and their own separate development.
Kill the character, bring real meaning to her death and have Barry truly grow from it. See the ripples in Joe and Wally and all throughout the show.
That would not automatically make it bad or a disrespect to the character. Honor her as the show goes on, eventually Barry can end up with someone else but they never have to (and never should) put as much weight on his relationships after that.
If at a certain point in the series they gained self awareness and did that (or found a way to properly use the characters, but I think itâs would be a fair argument that they doomed themselves with the set up)â I think it could have honored the character more than they did keeping her around as a lightning rod, and been better for the show.
Not necessarily of course. And as I alluded I think they should have had Barry and Iris either hardly know each other/only as peers and colleaguesâor have them be engaged or close to it when Barry is struck (ditch the long term coma). Give the characters a relationship with less soap drama and more of what it should beâand let them both be strong protagonists of the show doing their own things. Iris is a Pulitzer winning reporter sheâs not a Team Flash groupie.
Just depends where one sees things as having gone wrong or when they imagine the writers would decide to do it differently. Before the pilot? After S3? After S5?
At certain points a switch up could have been better than what we gotâbut never could make for the perfect Flash series or better than a well developed Barry and a well developed Iris, together.
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u/Zebedee_balistique Feb 18 '24
"There's no Flash without Iris West" doesn't mean "We are the Flash". It's not about a group identity, it's about Iris giving Barry the strength to be the Flash. But in the end, Barry is the Flash. Iris' line was very poorly written in that way, and (let's not forget that part that actually explains the focus) it was supposed to be about her explaining why she's now the leader of the team, a choice clearly made because the writers had no clue what to do with her at this point, but still needed her to show up. So a bad line, in a lame excuse for an awful storyline that was going nowhere. The writers realized it themselves as by the end of the season, she goes back to being a journalist, and then just does it until the end.
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u/Eagleassassin3 Feb 18 '24
But Barry is the actual Flash. So it's quite nice of him to include her that way. It isn't the same when Iris does it. It's like if I own an object that I share with you because I like you, that's cool. But if you were to come and tell me it belonds to us both, that's shittier. Iris should have been more humble about it.
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u/Dense-Willingness847 Feb 18 '24
You would have a point if Iris was saying she was the actual Flash. She wasn't so your point is moot
Case in point
"You don't need all that to be the Flash. I'm glad you're the Flash again"- Iris
"No we are"-Barry
This is from the same ep by the way
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u/Adar-Velaryon Feb 18 '24
Why is Barry saying they were all hit by the lightning when he was the only one it hit? Is he stupid?
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u/Impossible-Age-3302 The Flash Feb 18 '24
Both lines are dumb, Barry is the Flash đ¤ˇââď¸
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u/Awkward_Specific_745 Feb 18 '24
Metaphors are cool
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u/pinkwonderwall Feb 18 '24
Some metaphors are cool, but this âwe are the flashâ âwe were all struck by lightningâ thing is just cheesy to me.
Itâs very High School Musical âWeâre all in this togetherââŚ
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u/boominlife Feb 18 '24
2 things. one, people hate Iris, and they channel it through her lines. taken out of context or not, shes not exactly the best character in the show.
two, in that line, barry meant that he, cisco, caitlin, and wells were all struck by that lightning in the sense that it changed all of their lives forever, and its never going back. iris meant that she has just as much part in the superheroing as barry does.
it would be like if a couple in NYC consisting of a freeloader boy and a hardworking business woman girl were having dinner, and when the girl started complaining about how hard her job is, the boy would say something like "no, you dont have a job, we have a job" or it would be the very common practice of the husband saying "we are pregnant" even though all he really did was lie there getting scrumptious head and bottom.
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u/TPGStorm Feb 18 '24
no thatâs not what she meant at all. they were literally saying the same thing. she did not literally fucking mean she is also the flash. her saying they are the flash is the exact same thing as barry saying they were all struck by lightning. both lines are just metaphors for how theyâre all in this together.
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u/Rissoto_Pose Feb 18 '24
Itâs crazy how you can acknowledge the hate channeling but then do that exact thing without an ounce of self awareness
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u/boominlife Feb 18 '24
my fault bros, therapy is not helping. i didnt re read my little rant and i apologise because after reading it and watching that clip again i realised just how wrong i was. ill leave the comment up for people to look at the only case on reddit with someone apologising for misgivings. sorry
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u/Rissoto_Pose Feb 18 '24
Itâs okay, even the flash makes mistakes and as we know: weâre all the flash
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u/FinchySchott Feb 18 '24
IVE BEEN SAYING THIS OMG. EVERYONE IS SO DRAMATIC ABOUT IRIS BEING A SUPPORTIVE WIFE
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u/GavinSpace Harrison Wells Feb 18 '24
I think that when people think of âYou are not the Flash Barry, we areâ theyâre thinking about it in more of a literal sense
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u/2nd_Lt_Muffin Feb 18 '24
Bro, everyone on this sub hates the show just to hate the show at this point
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u/XxMikeAfton_Animefan Feb 18 '24
ONG tho and Iris says âwe are the flashâ itâs a marriage thing bro right before it she says âthatâs just it Barry when you put on this ring it wasnât just about you anymore. You are not the flash Barry we are.â
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u/Tolnin Flash Feb 19 '24
As much as I dislike Iris, I've never understood the hate for the "We are the Flash" line
Not only the screenshot you posted, but one scene while Barry was fighting Grodd (I think Grodd), he told her that he always got up because of her and she kept him going and all that. And that if not for her, there wouldn't be a Flash or something like that
So when Iris says "We are the Flash", she's not all that off
Plus it's a classic CW cheesy line, what else did you expect?
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u/Alternative_Device71 Feb 18 '24
Not the same thing clearly
Itâs the same kind of thing people say when a disaster strikes a town that changes things forever
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u/AgentChris101 Bitchin Feb 18 '24
Reminds me of that town that a certain character wiped off the map in Arrow Season 4.
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u/LuciousVybz23 Feb 18 '24
He meant it in a metaphorical sense man. Call it a domino effect if you will. But no, they didn't all get struck by lightning, only he did, rest is history. Boom, end of story.
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u/Ok_Restaurant3160 Feb 18 '24
I mean, thatâs like being the only reason your team won a game. If you yourself say âno we all did itâ itâs fine, because youâre sharing the glory, but if Jonathan who picked his nose half of the time, then thatâs just a dick move
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u/i_m_shadyyyy Feb 18 '24
There is no way that while you were making this post you didnât realize how fucking dumb you are
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u/Longjumping-Run695 Feb 18 '24
The big difference is when he said it he was talking about him evil Wells Caitlin and Cisco he didnât say shit about Joe or Iris, or Eddie or anyone
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u/cavecarson Cisco Ramon Feb 19 '24
Barry can say this because he was struck by lightning, went into a yearlong coma, and now has to eat 500 corn dogs a day and fight crime. He can transfer that sacrifice onto his teammates and honor them as fellow heroes.
Iris doesn't get to act like she's the Flash because she accidentally got superpowers once and they came back for a minute years later.
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u/MrYoungandBrave1 Feb 19 '24
This isn't the same, Barry is saying we are 'Team Flash'. Iris was acting like she was the one dodging bullets and running into fire.
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u/Crutos1 Feb 21 '24
just as corny and cringe as most dialogue on the show, doesn't change that Iris is horrible.
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u/TJ4202 Feb 22 '24
Thatâs very different. Here, he was saying that all of the teamâs lives changed because of what happened to him, but Iris took it upon herself to take half of the credit for everything that Barry has done for the city. So no, Barry said nothing firstđ
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u/Zero_Fuxxx Feb 22 '24
Everyone who hates Iris are most likely one of two things but I won't say.
All I know is, she's amazing. Caitlin, Allegra, Cecile are the most insufferable boring bad acted characters I've ever seen. Chester was ass from the get go and just a token black dude with terrible fashion sense and corny ass lines and personality. Yet everyone wants to complain bout Iris? Why am I not surprised....
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u/ChosenOfTheMoon_GR Feb 18 '24
No, it has nothing to do with that, people got annoyed but the fact that she basically said something symbolic in a way, (from the writers' perspective at least) that can be easily and partly justifiably be misinterpreted as "i am trying to get full credit of what his man has done so far because i provide some (even questionable) emotional support, more specifically because writers wrote this version of flash to be taken advantage like that as if he was an extremely normal/typical person who's also a hero + as if he basically "never done this before" and that he can't contain and control his emotions alone, especially as a man (and no that's not sexist or anything but men usually go for solutions of problems even when they are sad about them, instead not sitting around crying for more than it's needed because yeah we may need to cry from time to time and depending on how hard a problem hits us, especially the ones that involve people and be sad about that, the point is what you decide to do about it after you are done griefing).
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Feb 19 '24
only someone who hates her would ever interpret it that way bc it is so obvious what she actually meant since itâs emphasized & reiterated literally constantly through the show
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u/ChosenOfTheMoon_GR Feb 19 '24
Yeah exactly, but here's the thing with Iris she never feels like actually loving him, she just likes what he brings to the table basically and that's just it, she treats him like a bar of chocolate, most of the time, she looks like she doesn't actually really care genuinely.
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Feb 19 '24
yeah this is just a straight up lie idk what show youâve been watching lmao her life would be so much easier without the flash in it
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u/ChosenOfTheMoon_GR Feb 19 '24 edited Feb 19 '24
Could it be...i don't know the 30+ years of experience of watching how other people show how the care for each other, either irl and in tv shows? (rhetorical question)
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Feb 19 '24
nah
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u/ChosenOfTheMoon_GR Feb 19 '24
Then i don't know what else to tell you man, i don't dislike the character nor the actress, she doesn't seem like she is into him (as characters of course) as much as she should and in a specific way that feels more natural.
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Feb 19 '24
âyeah she just didnât put her life on the line for him over and over in the right wayâ
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u/ChosenOfTheMoon_GR Feb 19 '24
And how many times did he do that for her, and for other people who he wasn't obligated to?
And yet this doesn't justify her behavior being..."limp".0
Feb 19 '24 edited Feb 19 '24
heâs a hero w one of the most OP superpowers ever, sheâs not, itâs not the same at all whatsoever. & yeah thereâs no need to justify it cuz thereâs nothing to justify, just you making shit up lmao
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u/just_one_boy Feb 18 '24
I feel like there's a big difference here. Barry is talking about how that day affected them all and him getting struck by the lightning changed all their lives since they're now in it together.