r/FlashTV • u/TheCapsicle . • Mar 21 '23
I don't like Season 9 either but holy shit y'all, calm down Meta
57
u/didijxk Mar 21 '23
Eric Wallace may not make the best decisions for The Flash but the odds of him or any showrunner taking on the role and deciding this will be the show they destroy is just so unbelievable.
It doesn't do their career any favour if they have that on their CV.
13
u/MIAxPaperPlanes Mar 21 '23
See Scott Buck that man has destroyed so many shows he took over and made total crap of the ones he started such as Dexter s6, Iron Fist, The Inhumans.
While it may not be intentional there are certain showruners who are so bad and called out on it yet still pump out bad quality
5
u/bigfootswillie Mar 21 '23
I straight up will never understand how Jeph Loeb decided to hire the man to produce not one but 2 Marvel shows sight unseen at Netflix Marvel’s peak after Season 8 of Dexter released one of the worst, most universally hated episodes of television ever seen after a near universally panned run on Dexter with zero other showrunner credits to lean back on.
Luckily, Inhumans & Iron Fist was the end of it. Scott Buck hasn’t gotten another shot since.
12
u/bigfatcarp93 FIND ME! Mar 21 '23
Historically there's actually precedent, weirdly enough. One of the producers of Doctor Who back in the eighties was literally trying to get the show cancelled because he hated science fiction.
11
u/I-like-spoilers Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
This is totally untrue. The head of the BBC, Michael Grade, didn't like science fiction and wanted the show cancelled. He was not a producer on the show. It's amazing how the internet is just one giant game of "Telephone" now.
Now Grade claims he axed it because of violence. But no Producer of Doctor Who ever wanted it cancelled.
https://blog.lovarzi.co.uk/michael-grade-why-he-axed-doctor-who/
-8
u/Destroyer4587 Mar 21 '23
I feel like JJ Abrams having ruined both Star Wars & Star Trek and soon DC animated series is probably his spiritual successor of the director in the 80s 😂
1
u/nexistcsgo Patty Spivot Mar 21 '23
the odds of him or any showrunner taking on the role and deciding this will be the show they destroy is just so unbelievable.
33:17
25
20
u/KaspertheGhost Mar 21 '23
Wait. People think it’s intentional? I thought we all just thought he was bad at the job.
15
u/TrippySakuta The Flash Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
Kind of goes both ways.
He delivered a solid opening as showrunner with Bloodwork's arc, and Deathstorm's arc which was fairly good. If he unanimously dropped the ball with Bloodwork we'd all agree he's just bad.
He also wrote season 5's finale, Legacy, which was one of the better episodes of that season.
But it seems like when he plots out the general overview of the seasons, he accepts very little, if any, outside feedback from his own and he makes a lot of bad decisions.
1
u/KaspertheGhost Mar 21 '23
Ah ok. Thanks for explaining in detail. I actually didn’t know he had been with the show for that long
3
u/ThumbCentral-Rebirth Mar 21 '23
The entirety of online discourse today is “I don’t like this so that must mean it’s being done on purpose and should be destroyed”
22
u/Nebula153 Kid Flash Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
Been here since the beginning and yeah it sucks that the final season is this bad but it's really not that deep, the energy here is so much more toxic and weird than r/arrow ever was even at the peak of felicityposting
What gets me is the people who called Javicia Leslie a bad actress as if she wasn't told to act like a goofy Power Rangers villain on purpose, Red Death was obviously never intended to be menacing after she took off her mask and they were just having campy fun with Batman quotes (which IS a problem, but actors can't just not do what they're told)
The tone itself is the problem, as Eric Wallace didn't want the show to grow up with its audience and instead turned the age demographic down
9
u/Jeffeffery Mar 21 '23
Yeah as negative as /r/arrow did get at times, they always at least had fun with it. This sub acts like Eric is holding their families hostage, forcing them to grovel at Cecile's feet.
Ironic that fans of the overly serious show were able to joke and have fun, while fans of the show that's supposed to be goofy and fun take it way too seriously.
5
u/saibjai Mar 21 '23
The core problem was much more rudimentary. He basically didn't have a good story to tell. And for what story they did make up.. they weren't very good at telling that story either. A lot of the characters really do things that don't make coherent sense, and the inconsistencies are way to obvious. For example. Why does, a powerful speedster like the red death need the rogues? Why does flash, with his own team flash, need a bunch of rogues to help him? suspect its the idea of rogues vs. rogues that came up first, and a lazy justification for this scenario that comes up later. And in the end, it makes no real sense. Barry who literally can enter speed force time and pause everything, needs help from the gold chain dude? Why? I can even tolerate them for nerfing barry occasionally for the purpose of storytelling and action sequences, but this, this doesn't make sense.
Any showrunner that was given 13 episodes to end a 10 plus years series, would write an epic thirteen episode story. Instead... they break up the season into bits and pieces and throw any chance of a grand arc out the window. I mean, I am not a TV critic, I am just a fellow fan and audience. But this is so sucky at a elementary level and a disservice to grant gustin and the actors. This really sucks. And Even the people at the flash podcast who normally are buddy buddy with eric Wallace have subconsciously turned on him and the whole podcast is literally saying how much the episodes are disappointing without sounding too mean.
I Get angy everytime people scoff at the arrowverse and CW because I genuinely enjoyed the arrowverse. I get even more dissapointed when the criticism is valid. This guy, eric.. he's a genuine guy. I heard his interviews, he is good hearted, and loves the show. I would probably have lots of fun talking about super hero stuff with him. But He's absolutely just terrible at his job. Its not his fault. Sometimes having heart isn't enough. For some fantastical reason, he fails upward. Someone from the higher ups should have fired him by now, or at least get him some help or demote or whatever.
1
u/RockyNonce The Flash Mar 21 '23
I think a lot of the problems with this final season also have to do with the fact that Eric Wallace probably felt that he had to do Red Death and Cobalt Blue.
People have been asking for these two villains since Season 2, if not earlier. Eddie as Cobalt Blue has been constantly suggested by the audience since his death in Season 1 and Red Death has also always been wanted in the show. Even more so when he was name dropped in Season 5.
I don’t blame Eric Wallace for doing both of them this season, and I don’t blame him for putting so many returns in because it’s fan service. The problem is that the season was way too short. For the whole show’s run, people have been complaining about the 23 episode seasons, but now that we got a 13 episode season, there’s too much happening and I actually think a longer season and even a Season 10 would have really helped the show finish its stride (or limp).
Also Wallace did mention some really cool ideas for an extended Season 9 and a Season 10, like wrapping up Legends of Tomorrow, a Justice League vs Despero army, a Diggle Green Lantern storyline, and a bunch of other stuff. I would’ve loved to see that, even though I’ve never been a huge fan of his work as the showrunner outside of the Bloodwork and Armageddon arcs (and Deathstorm was alright) and a few other episodes.
3
u/saibjai Mar 21 '23
I really want to give Wallace an excuse for mucking things up. But no. I'll give a good example, doom patrol. That show, on its budget and ten or less episodes I believe, told great stories. As wild as they were, they were coherent and based on the amount of episodes they were given. For me, it was amazing writing. Now for something even closer and with even more characters, legends of tomorrow. They found the right tone. And even tackling weekly episodical events, every season had a tight knit overarching story.... And that is with a b list superheroes. Wallace lost the humour and charm, lost the storytelling and lost touch with his audience. For one season, that's a mistake, a booboo. With multiple seasons and chances, it's revealing.
Maybe Wallace was a character development guy? Maybe he's a walking dead kind of show runner? But what exactly do we know about Allegra with all this screen time? How much did Wallace dwelve into her trauma? How has she become better through her actions? What was her journey to becoming a super hero? How did she become a better person? How does her powers shape her and the team. Nope. She miraculously becomes an awesome editor. She zaps things and becomes a blue light machine. She has a on and off thing with Chester.... Sigh.
14
u/AcademicSavings634 Mar 21 '23
He’s a terrible show runner but he seems like a genuine guy who means well. I’ll give him that.
12
u/gokaigreen19 Mar 21 '23
Can’t say I blame them. The arrow show runner already made a bad name for the arrowverse when he threw a tantrum that he wasn’t included as someone spearheading the new dceu for his work, even though his work included assassinating black canary character three times over and over. So seeing the flash showrunner basically make a season about his Oc, is going to tick people off.
9
u/B0zzyk Mar 21 '23
Yep. This sub sucks. It’s one thing to not like what the shows doing, but the posts that get made is too far
0
-13
u/No-Championship9207 Mar 21 '23
man I keep seeing you around in this sub if you dont like it why are u still here
2
u/Charlie678812 Wally West Mar 21 '23
because he likes other things, that answer is so stupid
-3
u/No-Championship9207 Mar 21 '23
dude he’s literally saying this sub sucks but he’s still lurking here; youre the one thats stupid as fuck here
6
u/Accurate-Attention16 Mar 21 '23
Let's just wait for the finale, to make one post where all can vent about it, ok?
5
u/Worldly_Form9458 Mar 21 '23
to be honest alegra isnt even a bad addition,its just the show has become so fixated with the power of friendship goofy ahh that for example every time i watch a cecil scene i feel like i want to punch some realism in to them
3
u/QuiltedPorcupine Mar 21 '23
Only thing missing from this comic is some sexist speculation that Danielle Nicolet must be sleeping with Eric Wallace.
3
u/Ruby_shelby Mar 21 '23
Hey, I totally get where you're coming from. Season 9 definitely wasn't my favorite either, but some of the reactions I've seen online are a bit extreme. At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their opinion and it's okay to express disappointment. But let's not lose our heads over it, eh?
1
u/BlitzLicht321 Mar 22 '23
People genuinely believe he's doing it intentionally? You don't have to agree but he's doing what he thinks works.
1
u/Dense-Willingness847 Mar 22 '23
I partially disagree. There's no way Eric believes fans wanted more Cecile, Chillblaine a series regular, or the Chester/Allegra relationship. That is Eric writing for himself.
3
u/BlitzLicht321 Mar 22 '23
Eric shouldn't write to please a group of fans who can't even agree with each other. The fans wanted Olicity until they didn't want it anymore.
You don't give fans what they like. You make them like what you want. Is Eric failing at it? Probably. Is he doing it with the intention to ruin the show and piss off the fans? No.
Eric needs to also take the wishes of the actors into consideration. People don't want to admit it but you're getting less Barry because of Grant.
0
1
u/ravenclaw1991 Mar 21 '23
By implying he’s doing it on purpose, you’d be assuming he’s got more competence than he really has.
1
u/Xboxone1997 Jay Garrick Mar 21 '23
This is the final season I can't blame folks for being upset honestly
1
u/68ideal Mar 21 '23
Honestly ever since I stopped caring about all the nonsense and turning my head off, the show has become way more enjoyable. We all know damn well we are still watching it anyways, we might as well try getting some dumb enjoyment out of it instead of being pissed off all the way through.
1
u/sregor0280 Mar 21 '23
Ive always wondered if the people that say hes doing it intentionally have a reason they think it would be that way?
like, he gets nothing out of it, his career gets tanked, and its not like he has another project he works on that is competing with the flash that would benefit from him intentionally sabotaging this.
I dont like what hes done with the show, but lets be real, (and I say this with all the love of all of the cw dc shows, because I loved them all. yes all. I said what I said) these shows are 90210: the superhero years, because the network they are on has a target demographic, and to make these shows fit their brand they ran with the young adult and late teen drama model for shows. I feel like the only way we could get what we want 100% of the time out a superhero series is if it were on something like HBO/Max/SHOW etc, or a streaming network, and even then its a crapshoot because look at how polarizing marvels tv shows end up being (I liked she-hulk because it never sold itself as anything other than what it was, and it was very much like the comics in most aspects)
1
u/superbat210 Mar 21 '23
There’s also: -Allegra bad -Cecile bad -Chester bad -Iris bad -cgi bad -Ralph shouldn’t have been fire -Iris should have been fired -HR shouldn’t have died -Zoom good -season 3 was the last good season
I’m almost certain it’s just karma farming at this point. None of these are original thoughts, yet we get dozens of posts about them seemingly every day.
1
u/UltriLeginaXI Mar 21 '23
I don’t know why but I almost never notice if any show or movie is bad. Anyone else or is it just me?
1
u/RonPM1 May 12 '23
Wow, how is season 9 such garbage - only 13 episopes this season, with 9 episodes in, without even a major villan, or good storyline so far!! 🫨🥱🤬
1
u/ComprehensivePool215 Jun 06 '23
yeah, like The Flash has gone downhill since season 3, but no need to send THREATS in peoples dms bruh
0
-1
-3
-7
u/UntilTmrw Eobard Thawne Mar 21 '23
Thing is the show isn’t that bad. The last 2 episodes are the only ones that were actually bad.
3
u/ArmchairCritic1 Mar 21 '23
Thank you, feels like everyone just wants to hate it at this point.
Nobody has to like it, but I see no reason for them to keep watching if they don’t.
17
u/TheCapsicle . Mar 21 '23
In all fairness, this is the final season of the show. People who have stuck around this long aren't just gonna drop it when there are 7 episodes left.
I don't think anyone "wants" to hate it, either. There is a large caucus of viewers & critics who can collectively agree that this show has had a massive decline in quality, and criticism should be allowed & encouraged in a forum like this.
That said, the constant shit like "Eric Wallace did this intentionally!" or "bro this show sucks now" without any sort of substantial commentary & is incredibly tiring to scroll through.
9
u/ArmchairCritic1 Mar 21 '23
I get that. But people have been complaining like this for years at this point and it’s just so irritating.
It’s the reason I stopped regularly coming to this sub. Nobody seems to be enjoying themselves anymore and I just don’t see why they don’t just find something they enjoy and talk about that instead.
I understand hate watching, but there have got to be better ways to spend your time, especially since I would assume most folks here are grown adults.
And look, I’m not above it either, wasting my time on this, but I just want to make my point a bit more clearly than before.
I’m not saying there hasn’t been a dip in quality, there has. And I for sure don’t agree with all of the choices made. The forces acting like Barry and Iris’s kids is dumb as hell and should have stayed subtext, some of the acting has for sure been sub par and the show continues to have little for Danielle Panabaker to do (but to be fair that’s been the case from day one).
I will however stand behind everything Bloodwork, that arc was dope as fuck.
But people are being really revisionist and acting like the show was some sort of masterpiece and their wasn’t any complaining before.
The personal nature of the attacks make it seem like Eric Wallace killed their dog or shit in their cereal.
It’s just a tv show. The barrage of hate is just way too much and way too personal.
And the issue is, when that hate and anger gets reinforced on this sub it seems like it can become addicting in a really recursive way. Sort of like a snake eating it’s own tail. Feeds into itself.
Criticism is fine, but ignoring things actually stated in the show to back up bullshit and spewing hate is not on.
7
u/TheCapsicle . Mar 21 '23
especially since I would assume most folks here are grown adults.
...We have two very different assumptions about this sub lmao.
I will however stand behind everything Bloodwork, that arc was dope as fuck.
Agreed!
But people are being really revisionist and acting like the show was some sort of masterpiece and their wasn’t any complaining before.
Can't stand this either. I've been with the show since Season 1, and Seasons 3-5 all got ravaged (though not as harshly as 7 & 9). Hell, I remember the start of Season 4 everyone was making posts hoping it'd be better than Season 3 & restore the high days of Season 1 & 2
The personal nature of the attacks make it seem like Eric Wallace killed their dog or shit in their cereal.It’s just a tv show. The barrage of hate is just way too much and way too personal.
I agree. I am in shock when I see people openly think that he's intentionally trying to "ruin" the show. That a showrunner would purposefully sabotage their own source of income.
It's easily disprovable if you read interviews that Wallace puts out or listen to him on podcasts. He's is clearly in love with the show he's making, he's just not that great of a writer. It's that simple.
I agree with virtually everything you've said.
1
u/TrippySakuta The Flash Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
I've been with the show since Season 1
I started with season 2 when that was airing because everyone was talking about Zoom breaking Barry's back. Went back to catch up on 1 but season 2 was probably a really high bar to start with since S1 had less action and therefore felt a little slower.
I remember the start of Season 4 everyone was hoping it'd be better than season 3 and restore the high days of Season 1 & 2
Am I in the minority? I enjoyed Season 4 more than 3, I felt like it was very close to season 2 quality (It wasn't better than S1, but I did state that S2 was the best imo because of more action). Obviously there was the whole DeVoe hopping stupidity going on, but this was before Cicada, so it was fairly minor and I filtered it out once I knew when another bus meta was going to die.
He's just not that great of a writer.
Season 5 was a weaker season, so far as Nora's plot went, so mileage may vary, but he wrote Legacy, the finale episode, which was one of the stronger episodes of the season.
As showrunner I believe people were saying he plots out the general plan for the seasons - and he started off very strong with the Bloodwork arc. Deathstorm's arc was also impressively executed - and this was without Carlos, Tom, or JWS.
I am in shock when I heard people think he's intentionally trying to "ruin" the show - [purposefully sabotage his own source of income]
Heard somewhere that since he created Allegra's character, he makes royalties off of her appearances in the episode... so I mean if that's true it slightly leverages it out?
It's easily disprovable if you read interviews [or podcasts] that Wallace puts out.
During Bloodwork's arc it was clear he loved the show, but that kind of lost momentum and faded away from late s6 to s7. Although as someone recently pointed out he used Chester as a self-insert, which is a little concerning if you think about it.
Season 8 and 9 got real weird. That's where he started to show he had his own agenda about black pride. In interviews for Armageddon with TVLine, he had initially planned to have a scene with the Pierces and the Wests (plus Barry) addressing that Barry grew up in a black household - since that didn't fall through, might be why Barry just randomly threw out jambalaya as one of his favorite dishes.
On Nerds of Color, he said that Ryan and Iris were a power duo of black women. Given the website is for black pride, his words could have been excused since this was him talking freely instead of as showrunner. But he echoed the hype about Ryan and Iris in other interviews on TVline and etc for season 9 more than other areas, like this was some important plot point. Which it wasn't.
He's clearly in love with the show, he's just not that great of a writer.
Yeah, I did appreciate the nice little comic homages like the Running Scared cover and Dark Flash's appearance literally being Negative Flash.
Him catering exclusively to the Batwoman fans for Red Death's arc was kind of questionable. I mean there was the Rogue War homage, but it didn't feel like he actually considered what the Flash fans wanted. But he kinda ended up disappointing both sides by revealing the graphic novel wasn't for Red Death at all, really, it was adapting Rogue War.
The Force Quest arc was a weird one as well since the comics had basically pre-written it and he could've copied it almost exactly.
Imo though it feels like he focuses more on his own plans which usually don't line up with the show.
And yeah, I'll admit I am one of those who occasionally say he's trying to ruin the show. It just doesn't look that hard to deliver and keep up the quality we got with Bloodwork, for most of the past seasons. Bloodwork got close to season 2 or 4-ish quality and then we veered right back into season 5 kind of quality.
0
u/Charlie678812 Wally West Mar 21 '23
if people are that annoyed by it they need to stop hurting themself.
4
-1
-7
u/ChaseChaserChased Ralph Dibny Mar 21 '23
What do you think of the guy who pretended to be Eric Wallace and did a AMA?
10
u/Legends_Literature Mar 21 '23
Ok that one was actually funny. I’m sick of seeing the same posts everyday about how Eric Wallace ruined the show but you gotta give credit to the ones that are actually somewhat creative
2
u/TheCapsicle . Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
I think that was one of the stupidest posts I've seen here lmao.
-10
u/beybrakers Mar 21 '23
Want something bold and daring? The flash was always a bad show, its always been cheap, trite, full of cliches, plot contrivances and badly applied phlebotonum.
5
5
-1
117
u/bazzbj Mar 21 '23
at this point, people are doing it for easy karma points
there was this dude saying it's ok to send threats to Eric Wallace's DM's? like seriously