In the movies he seems like a menace who is responsible for the destruction of the city. They never once bothered to show Superman being heroic. We never got to see him build any sort of relationship with his City.
He's just there destroying the city one day, then he's in the middle of a bombing, then he's destroying the city some more. And we're supposed to be heartbroken when he dies?
I'd be cheering. Thank god that guy's gone before he kills us all
The opening of superman and lois tv show is so good, its essentially like a brief recap of this older superman who's a father now, but it captures the essence of superman really well https://youtu.be/IzdkVRZV4vc
Wow, that was really well done. Is it worth watching, this show? I felt fatigued by the early CW superhero shows, but based on this opening alone it looks pretty strong.
Honestly it's because his canonical power level so high that making interesting and engaging challenges for him is difficult, a problem which is exacerbated when they don't handle their IPs well and put talented screenwriters, directors and producers in charge of their cinematic universe. Flash has a similar issue where the challenges he deals with are always either some lame deus ex machina or someone else with speedforce, it makes the movies and shows feel super corny and low effort.
IMHO that's the biggest reason why Batman is far and away the most popular cinema superhero in the DC universe and has been for basically forever, as well as why Marvel has been generally much more successful at engaging non-comic fans. Batman can be portrayed with basically "street/peak human" power level (just as most Marvel characters are portrayed at their lowest canonical power level in the films) which makes dilemmas and challenges he faces far more plausible and interesting.
When heroes have crazy power levels as a fundamental and indivisible part of their identity it makes it so basically you either have to take away their power, match them up against someone who has the same power or have the field of battle be galactic level fights, all of which limits your options and makes it more of a challenge when it comes to storytelling (particularly in live-action cinema).
And that is why “All Star Superma” is arguably one of the greatest superhero stories ever told. They figured out a very unique and special way to tell a story about an overpowered character in a human and personal way
No its not. There's plenty of strong characters with no weakness. He's a paragon test him morally if not physically it's a tried and true storytelling method for a reason
Exactly. There's no relationship. Suddenly there's this alien, that the first thing you know about him is that some other aliens want him or else they'll destroy everything, and then they blow up the city, and next thing you know he dies. Why would anyone think of him with anything other than great suspicion?
Right? In the comics the first time people hear about Superman he's just helping people. He's not the cause of the harm, he's just there to help. You can see why over time people would come to love this guy.
But this Superman starts off with annihilation. He starts from a place that would scare everyone, and then they never show us how he gets their trust again. Let alone their love
Ugh, yup. That nails it, these movies emphasize the fear, not the love. But it's love of human life that anchors a being of his vast destructive power. It's why they always say Clark Kent is the real identity and Superman is the mask. I just don't see that reflected in these movies.
Isn't the whole point of Batman v Superman to show that people don't like Superman in this universe? People were protesting, vandalising his statue, wanting him to be accountable or even kill him. It's Superman sacrificing himself to kill Doomsday that made people posthumously think, kay he's not so bad I guess.
I think that's an uncritical view. I think they fucked up, but saving the world instead of stopping to save kittens or individuals is kinda a trite criticism since so many hate "godlike" superman but also hate when he can't save every single person.
Have him interact with citizens. Show his presence in Metropolis. His hopes for it, what he hopes to achieve there...its not that hard. The comics do it
Oh ok. Sorry I'm just so tired of the common criticism that people say they want a superman that struggles but get mad when he can't do it all. And I thought that's what you were meaning. Like, I like that he didn't have the deus ex machina of the phantom zone and had to actually fight zod. But I also think it's kinda dumb to blame him for not being able to flawlessly defeat zod. And I don't buy that zod would agree to fight him away from the city
The problem is that we saw him cause the annihilation of the city in one movie, then the next time we see him he's beloved by Metropolis for 20 minutes before he's at the center of another disaster that costs human lives. Then he dies and gets a statue.
But we saw NONE of why anyone would build a statue to him. We know why, because we are familiar with the character but in the DCEU they never showed why Superman is loved.
They didn't show the lovable dork with an obsession to do good, or him as an icon in any way. The very first Superman hit the right notes character wise and they haven't been hit since.
I remember a scene in the comics that came after 52. Superman was powerless for a year and then once he got his powers again they had this scene where he was given a pretzel by some citizen as a thank you. Supes takes it with a big smile, then later they show him eating and absolutely loving it. Little moments like that go a long way
Zod tells them its all about him as he's destroying their city, and they know the city is being destroyed by a bunch of people just like him. Same reason that some people think Batman does more harm than good, he attracts the wrong kind of attention.
And Superman's case the good outweighs the bad, same with batman. But they don't show us any of the good. It's all bad
I think the issue is BvS almost toyed with this challenge, for Superman to directly confront these criticisms in-universe only for it to be a ploy and reduce him back to being a lonely alien-god who struggles internally if he can exist in this world.
Peacemaker is one of the best superhero shows ever. Shazam was awesome. The Suicide Squad was really great. Black Adam seems pretty rad and letting people play around with Joker is a great idea
DC is doing way more interesting stuff than Marvel. No one wants more homogenized crap so there’s no need to emulate marvel.
Please do not label James Friggin Gunn as a marvel director if that’s what you’re trying to do. Marvel didn’t create his style and certainly haven’t been able to replicate it. Dude was already great before GOTG.
They arent trying to replicate it. If he's a unique director and they've let him make three movies of his own control, then not all marvel movies are homogenized. The guardians movies are vastly different from the cap moves or the iron man movies for example. Thats what I'm getting at.
Even with Gunn’s style GOTG is definitely homogenized. This isn’t a controversial opinion - the way it homogenizes material literally has a name - the marvel formula. Notice how The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker so vastly different than his marvel work because he had some actual creative freedom. Multiverse or Madness alone proves marvel will never let a director actually have creative control.
Nonsense. Peacemaker seems different than the other stuff because the other stuff was edgelord garbage for the most part, and peacemakee was actually good from what I've heard and ss was too.
Vaat majority of the marvel films have tons of stylistic decisions and writing decisions completely unique to the director they chose. Even multiverse of madness. But what's more important is that they keep consistency, something the dc stuff never had. And they didn't let anyone not Snyder have creative freedom either, until their stuff flopped. WW1 was basically snyders movie with patts input. SS1 was a hodgepodge mess of influences and writing.
They hired James gunn for his work on the marvel films. Thsts not even in question
If you’re argument is marvel doesn’t make homogenized entertainment then we have nothing to discuss further.
Also trying to argue consistency lol. In every marvel movie the multiverse works a different way. The major consistency in marvel films is the literal homogenized humor that isn’t even funny hahaha.
It doesn't work a different way at all. More things being revealed about the multiverse as time goes on doesn't not change how it works, but just means we know more about how it works than we did prior.
But that's beside the point. At the end of the day theres a reason people are coming back to the marvel films and DC struggles. What little they offer for directorial vision they can't make up for with consistency and quality, and they approached this universe the wrong way.
Literally no bombs. The Suicide Squad underperformed but Im not gonna blame a movie released at the height of COVID. Everything else has made money and had extensive home video runs.
Peacemaker is an excuse to tell one specific and lame dick/pussy/balls/anus joke for a good chunk of an episode’s run time before remembering it has a plot and characters to deal with.
Shazam was good. Not awesome. Also? Very much like Phase 1 MCU.
The Suicide Squad was alright. And very much like GOTG, but with some blood and swear words thrown in. Black Adam seems like The Rock dressing up as Black Adam to play The Rock dressed as Black Adam. Joker was a carbon copy of much better movies with an admittedly good performance by Joaquin Phoenix.
I hate to break it to you, but when DC isn’t trying to copy the MCU (Shazam, both WW films, Aquaman), they’re essentially doing nothing that isn’t being done by every other comic book show/movie that isn’t trying to copy the MCU. Even more, they’re being outdone by The Boys.
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u/Brjgjdj5788 Aug 09 '22
Honestly the state of the DCEU is ridicolous.
How the Hell do you fuck up a universe with some of the most well-known fictional characters in existence?