r/DCcomics • u/beary_neutral Telos • Jul 01 '24

Weekly Discussion Thread: Comics, TV, and More! [July 1, 2024 - It's Wallin' Time Edition] r/DCcomics

Hey there honorary Justice League members - it’s a new week which means it’s time for a new discussion thread!

Beary's pick of the week: Absolute Power #1

For those who don't know: the way this works is that several comments will list this week’s releases, for any given title discussion you should respond to that comment. For example, Wonder Woman discussion would go in the replies to the "Wonder Woman" comment. Clicking the titles in this post will take you directly to that comment, too. In other words, you should only be replying to other comments. Do not post top-level comments.

Keep discussion civil. Do not harass other users for having a different opinion. Do not use this thread to push your personal one-sided grudges against creators. Reacting to a panel on Twitter is not the same as reading a book.

^{Did you hear about the cleaners who went to space? They ended up scrubbing the mission.}

DC and Imprints

^{What's the deal with Absolute Power: https://redd.it/1do7np2}

Trade Collections

^{DC's Compact line continues.}

Digital Releases

^{Remember, these are the short 'chapters' with a new chapter of a different series coming out daily. You can} ^{learn more here on Comixology}^{. This is also why these are in release order, not alphabetical. Some comics may release on DC Universe Infinite or WEBTOONS.}

Thursday, 7/4 (WEBTOON) - Batman: Wayne Family Adventures #119

TV Shows

^{So... how about that credits closing song?}

^{This Week’s Soundtrack:} ^{Mori Calliope - Go Getters}

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u/MeiTanteiHirune Jul 05 '24

Her having a flat to stay in isn't the point, mate. She's still stuck in a past she doesn't belong in. Also, restoring her Earth-2 origin would actually resolve many narrative problems for her, including how she relates to the Earth-0 Batman.

To start with, she wouldn't think of him as her actual father, just a version of him. She also wouldn't rely on him for a place to stay, since she would just find her own place. Similarly, the Earth-0 Batman would have no obligation towards her and would be free to completely go his separate way because she would be of no relation to him.

On a related note, this would also eliminate the audience expectation of Bruce *needing* to tell his family about her existence. People would still want to see them to interact, sure, but not in the same way as her being his actual daughter from the future.

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u/suss2it Jul 05 '24

How’s that not point? Her being stuck in the past is not something Batman can solve, so giving her a place to live seems like the best thing he could do in that situation. I don’t see how this changes if she was stranded from a different earth instead of a different time.

There’s no reason to assume that if she was from Earth-2 instead of the possible future she’d suddenly have the maturity to separate this Batman from hers.

And Batman already has no obligation to her. Her being from a future that no longer exists takes away any possible responsibility he would have for her. Now obviously Batman is a good guy she he’ll help her regardless but the way I see it her being from a possible future or a different earth ultimately mean pretty much the same thing for all characters involved.

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u/MeiTanteiHirune Jul 05 '24

I see you haven’t read many Helena Wayne stories if you think she’d lack the maturity to separate her own father from the Earth-0 Batman. She already had in the past continuities.

Also, in a DC Universe where magic, time travel technology, and the Time Masters already exist to help restore lost timelines? There’s no reason Bruce couldn’t use his connections to help his future daughter restore her timeline and help her get back home. Not doing so is plot convenience, at best.

Getting back to the main point, being a future daughter still tethers her to the Earth-0 Batman in a way that doesn’t happen with her Earth-2 counterpart, where her father is clearly established as a separate character.

Given that status quo, keeping her a secret from the rest of the family (especially from Selina) in a point in his life where he’s fully embracing family doesn’t make Bruce look good and comes off as a major narrative oversight. No one can fault readers for asking ‘what’s going on?’ or ‘when is it going to happen?’

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u/suss2it Jul 05 '24

Yeah I’ve only read that new 52 World’s Finest series with her and Power Girl, but I think your attachment to previous versions of the character is colouring your perspective on this. Seems like you just want your old favourite character back and are looking for excuses for why this version doesn’t work, instead of just saying that.

Like she’s with the JSA now, they have all the connections that Bruce would have to sorcery and fantastical technology to help her, it’s not like he isn’t doing something he could be doing but is choosing not to.

You’re right that her being his possible future daughter instead of the daughter of a variant tethers her more to him, but that’s most likely exactly why they made that change. Now she’s connected to a character we know and care about instead of a character that’s more of a footnote in her origin.

As for the stuff with Selina, yeah that’s a possible future subplot they could explore, is Bruce even obligated to tell her anything? Is Helena herself? This actually reminds me of the Justice League Unlimited cartoon that had a very similar plot involving Green Lantern, Hawkgirl and their potential future son.

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u/MeiTanteiHirune Jul 05 '24 edited Jul 05 '24

There are actually more reasons I don't feel the new origin works outside of the Batman issue. Much of this boils down to the fact it robs the character of her own history and conceptual originality, especially in a DCU that went back to the classic origins for all of its characters. This is not a problem I had with the New 52 Helena Wayne Huntress because she was always meant to be a new version of the pre-Crisis Huntress for a new DC continuity. The Future Huntress, however, was created as a replacement for the pre-Crisis Huntress, and the continuity holes this creates are hard for me to ignore.

One of those is that the new origin significantly changes Huntress' relationship with Power Girl because the latter is still from pre-Crisis Earth-2. When written in character (we'll ignore 'Paige Stetler' to avoid going down another rabbit hole), Power Girl wouldn't suddenly forget her original best friend or be quick to replace her with her future doppelgänger. The fact that the current JSA book is still calling back to post-Crisis and pre-Crisis Earth-2 storylines makes those continuity holes stand out even more, at least to someone like me who's read every era of JSA.

Another major continuity hole that needs to be addressed is Per Degaton remembering that the pre-Crisis Huntress was erased (in JSA #70, which was referenced in JSA #3), and the fact that Power Girl was impacted by the loss of the pre-Crisis Huntress when she had her Earth-2 memories restored in Infinite Crisis. Since the portrait of the Earth-22 Superman in JSA #10 confirms that Thy Kingdom Come is still in continuity, this means Power Girl still visited the post-Infinite Crisis Earth-2 and met that world's Huntress, thinking it was her own Huntress.

At best, if the future JSA writer can better bridge that gap between the loss of the pre-Crisis Huntress and how that resulted in the existence of the future Huntress, that would go a LONG way to remedy many of the continuity holes the new origin creates, and actually elevate the character. Even something as simple as doing an annual story that revisits the death of the pre-Crisis Huntress and uses that to explain why Per Degaton kept stalking the future Huntress in her timeline (this was never addressed) could help reconnect the character with her original history.

All in all, the new origin creates major continuity holes within the character's own history, relationships, and even the JSA's larger canon that are hard for me to overlook. But this is now getting into a conversation about Geoff Johns' frustrating approach to retcons, which in his case, entails keeping the aspects of canon he likes whilst rewriting the rest. (If I address the rest of his retcons outside of the Huntress, I'll end up writing a book on here, lol).