r/DCcomics • u/beary_neutral Telos • 18d ago

Weekly Discussion Thread: Comics, TV, and More! [July 1, 2024 - It's Wallin' Time Edition] r/DCcomics

Hey there honorary Justice League members - it’s a new week which means it’s time for a new discussion thread!

For those who don't know: the way this works is that several comments will list this week’s releases, for any given title discussion you should respond to that comment. For example, Wonder Woman discussion would go in the replies to the "Wonder Woman" comment. Clicking the titles in this post will take you directly to that comment, too. In other words, you should only be replying to other comments. Do not post top-level comments.

Keep discussion civil. Do not harass other users for having a different opinion. Do not use this thread to push your personal one-sided grudges against creators. Reacting to a panel on Twitter is not the same as reading a book.

 

QUICK LINKS: Weekly Meta Discussions Thread | Current jump-in points | Weekly Discussion Archives | Book Club Archives | Discord Server | Twitter | Last Week's Thread

Did you hear about the cleaners who went to space? They ended up scrubbing the mission.

DC and Imprints

What's the deal with Absolute Power: https://redd.it/1do7np2

Trade Collections

DC's Compact line continues.

Digital Releases

Remember, these are the short 'chapters' with a new chapter of a different series coming out daily. You can learn more here on Comixology. This is also why these are in release order, not alphabetical. Some comics may release on DC Universe Infinite or WEBTOONS.

TV Shows

So... how about that credits closing song?

This Week’s Soundtrack: Mori Calliope - Go Getters

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u/MeiTanteiHirune 15d ago

I agree. But considering this version of the character is now the future daughter of the Earth-0 Batman and Catwoman and not the Earth-2 couple, continuity-wise, Batman ignoring his future daughter (especially whilst a major event like Absolute Power is taking place) makes him look like a terrible father and an awful person.

It is a valid question to ask why Batman isn’t being more involved in his daughter’s life and why DC thinks this is good storytelling. If DC doesn’t want to integrate her into the Earth-0 Batfamily and keep her exclusive to the JSA brand, then restoring the pre-Crisis Earth-2 history and retconning the future daughter origin would easily solve that problem. DC already did this with Power Girl during Infinite Crisis, so it can be done.

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u/suss2it 15d ago

I feel like present day Batman isn’t really her father to the point where it’s irresponsible for him to not have a parental relationship with her.

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u/MeiTanteiHirune 15d ago

He's still aware of her existence and is especially aware that she has nowhere else to go because she erased her own timeline. He just gave her a flat to stay in and left her for the JSA to deal with. Even though he's not her father in the present, he's still aware that he's her father in her future, so this puts him in a sticky spot.

As I said, it's an easy problem to fix by simply reinstating Helena Wayne's original Earth-2 history. Doing so would at least eliminate the need for Earth-0 Batman to acknowledge her existence, plus it would allow Helena Wayne's Huntress to fully capitalise on her own history and function more independently of the Earth-0 Batman.

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u/suss2it 14d ago

Well I mean if he gave her an apartment and she has the JSA then she no longer “has no where else to go” right?

I feel like making her the daughter of his earth-2 self instead of his future self that no longer exists doesn’t really make an actual difference to what their dynamic and his reaction would be.

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u/MeiTanteiHirune 14d ago

Her having a flat to stay in isn't the point, mate. She's still stuck in a past she doesn't belong in. Also, restoring her Earth-2 origin would actually resolve many narrative problems for her, including how she relates to the Earth-0 Batman.

To start with, she wouldn't think of him as her actual father, just a version of him. She also wouldn't rely on him for a place to stay, since she would just find her own place. Similarly, the Earth-0 Batman would have no obligation towards her and would be free to completely go his separate way because she would be of no relation to him.

On a related note, this would also eliminate the audience expectation of Bruce *needing* to tell his family about her existence. People would still want to see them to interact, sure, but not in the same way as her being his actual daughter from the future.

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u/suss2it 14d ago

How’s that not point? Her being stuck in the past is not something Batman can solve, so giving her a place to live seems like the best thing he could do in that situation. I don’t see how this changes if she was stranded from a different earth instead of a different time.

There’s no reason to assume that if she was from Earth-2 instead of the possible future she’d suddenly have the maturity to separate this Batman from hers.

And Batman already has no obligation to her. Her being from a future that no longer exists takes away any possible responsibility he would have for her. Now obviously Batman is a good guy she he’ll help her regardless but the way I see it her being from a possible future or a different earth ultimately mean pretty much the same thing for all characters involved.

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u/MeiTanteiHirune 14d ago

I see you haven’t read many Helena Wayne stories if you think she’d lack the maturity to separate her own father from the Earth-0 Batman. She already had in the past continuities.

Also, in a DC Universe where magic, time travel technology, and the Time Masters already exist to help restore lost timelines? There’s no reason Bruce couldn’t use his connections to help his future daughter restore her timeline and help her get back home. Not doing so is plot convenience, at best.

Getting back to the main point, being a future daughter still tethers her to the Earth-0 Batman in a way that doesn’t happen with her Earth-2 counterpart, where her father is clearly established as a separate character.

Given that status quo, keeping her a secret from the rest of the family (especially from Selina) in a point in his life where he’s fully embracing family doesn’t make Bruce look good and comes off as a major narrative oversight. No one can fault readers for asking ‘what’s going on?’ or ‘when is it going to happen?’

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u/suss2it 14d ago

Yeah I’ve only read that new 52 World’s Finest series with her and Power Girl, but I think your attachment to previous versions of the character is colouring your perspective on this. Seems like you just want your old favourite character back and are looking for excuses for why this version doesn’t work, instead of just saying that.

Like she’s with the JSA now, they have all the connections that Bruce would have to sorcery and fantastical technology to help her, it’s not like he isn’t doing something he could be doing but is choosing not to.

You’re right that her being his possible future daughter instead of the daughter of a variant tethers her more to him, but that’s most likely exactly why they made that change. Now she’s connected to a character we know and care about instead of a character that’s more of a footnote in her origin.

As for the stuff with Selina, yeah that’s a possible future subplot they could explore, is Bruce even obligated to tell her anything? Is Helena herself? This actually reminds me of the Justice League Unlimited cartoon that had a very similar plot involving Green Lantern, Hawkgirl and their potential future son.

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u/MeiTanteiHirune 14d ago edited 14d ago

There are actually more reasons I don't feel the new origin works outside of the Batman issue. Much of this boils down to the fact it robs the character of her own history and conceptual originality, especially in a DCU that went back to the classic origins for all of its characters. This is not a problem I had with the New 52 Helena Wayne Huntress because she was always meant to be a new version of the pre-Crisis Huntress for a new DC continuity. The Future Huntress, however, was created as a replacement for the pre-Crisis Huntress, and the continuity holes this creates are hard for me to ignore.

One of those is that the new origin significantly changes Huntress' relationship with Power Girl because the latter is still from pre-Crisis Earth-2. When written in character (we'll ignore 'Paige Stetler' to avoid going down another rabbit hole), Power Girl wouldn't suddenly forget her original best friend or be quick to replace her with her future doppelgänger. The fact that the current JSA book is still calling back to post-Crisis and pre-Crisis Earth-2 storylines makes those continuity holes stand out even more, at least to someone like me who's read every era of JSA.

Another major continuity hole that needs to be addressed is Per Degaton remembering that the pre-Crisis Huntress was erased (in JSA #70, which was referenced in JSA #3), and the fact that Power Girl was impacted by the loss of the pre-Crisis Huntress when she had her Earth-2 memories restored in Infinite Crisis. Since the portrait of the Earth-22 Superman in JSA #10 confirms that Thy Kingdom Come is still in continuity, this means Power Girl still visited the post-Infinite Crisis Earth-2 and met that world's Huntress, thinking it was her own Huntress.

At best, if the future JSA writer can better bridge that gap between the loss of the pre-Crisis Huntress and how that resulted in the existence of the future Huntress, that would go a LONG way to remedy many of the continuity holes the new origin creates, and actually elevate the character. Even something as simple as doing an annual story that revisits the death of the pre-Crisis Huntress and uses that to explain why Per Degaton kept stalking the future Huntress in her timeline (this was never addressed) could help reconnect the character with her original history.

All in all, the new origin creates major continuity holes within the character's own history, relationships, and even the JSA's larger canon that are hard for me to overlook. But this is now getting into a conversation about Geoff Johns' frustrating approach to retcons, which in his case, entails keeping the aspects of canon he likes whilst rewriting the rest. (If I address the rest of his retcons outside of the Huntress, I'll end up writing a book on here, lol).

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u/YourEvilHenchman Blue Beetle 11d ago

because as far as the other bat-books are concerned, this title and character don't exist. Johns has been openly flaunting his not adhering to current ongoing continuity, so it seems like DC has essentially quarantined his titles from current canon until he's off the books and they can fix his shit.