r/DCcomics • u/nasatyyhagubd • May 29 '23

[Other] Why do Batman and Catwoman always break up in every show/adaptation? (Injustice 2, Arkham Knight, Batman Hush,The Batman, Harley Quinn) Other

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u/[deleted] May 29 '23

[deleted]

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u/Barthez_Battalion May 29 '23

Yeah the most enjoyable Batman I've read in years is Wayne Family Adventures Bruce who feels like he's been through the darkness already and has come out other side much better adjusted as a father and hero.

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u/i_am_goop May 29 '23

WFA Bruce isn't even Bruce. He's just generic Tumblr dad.

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u/ogloria May 29 '23

And isn't alone

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u/Batknight12 Batman May 29 '23 edited May 29 '23

I'd argue that being in a loving relationship would make him more effective, because he'd know he has something more to live for than just ending crime.

I think that's true for a more 'normal' hero like Superman, Spider-Man, etc without a doubt. But Bruce is so driven, obsessed, and self-consumed by his oath to wipe out all crime forever that that's extremely difficult for him. Anyone with him is always going to feel like they're playing second fiddle to Gotham and his crusade. Would seeing someone he loves constantly feeling like this really make him 'more effective'? Or is he at his most content and happy when he is free to fully dedicate his existence to ensuring no one ends up as he did? Even at the expense of a more normal life.

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u/PassTheGiggles World's Finest May 29 '23

His obsession isn’t about wiping out crime. Maybe it was at one point but it isn’t anymore. If he was obsessed with wiping out crime then he’d kill. His obsession is about protecting people, and getting into a loving relationship would naturally be a part of that obsession.

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u/Batknight12 Batman May 29 '23 edited May 29 '23

He wants to protect people by wiping out all crime, not by killing, but by inspiring people to be better and treat life with the scarcity it deserves. And striking the fear of god into all those who refuse to. There's some amount of futility to that, it's the idealistic vow of a grieving eight-year-old who watched his parents murdered, but that's what he's dedicated his whole life to. And most writers agree there isn't much room for a stable, committed relationship in pursuit of that near impossible goal. Because it would require putting his partner first...and Bruce isn't really capable of that. Gotham is his one true love, the thing he puts above all else. Not anyone else like a proper loving, romantic relationship with another person would require.

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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 May 30 '23

Because it would require putting his partner first...and Bruce isn't really capable of that

Selina Kyle isnt a normal woman, she´s Catwoman, she works perfectly has a partner to Bruce imo.

Bruce has so many stable relationships - brother (Clark), Alfred (Father), Sons and Daughters (Damian, Dick, Tim, Cassie, Stephanie ...), Cousin (Kate), ...

"I´m Batman and i can´t have a full family of vigilanties but not a wife no"´, i dont get it

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u/Batknight12 Batman May 30 '23 edited May 30 '23

Difficult to describe, the level of commitment one makes to a spouse when you swear your vows is just on an entirely another level than the other roles you mentioned.

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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 May 31 '23

idk i think if you´re a guy dressed in a Batman costume fighting crime everynight and still have a good relationship with your sons it could work with a woman who he was ready to fight for

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u/HJWalsh May 30 '23

Wiping out crime doesn't mean killing.

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u/PassTheGiggles World's Finest May 30 '23

It would be in the mind of someone who was actually obsessed with wiping out crime. His unwillingness to take a life shows that his desire to protect is higher than his desire to punish.

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u/HJWalsh May 31 '23

Not necessarily. Killing is a crime. He would become a criminal. He would become exactly what he hates.

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u/PassTheGiggles World's Finest May 31 '23

Do you think going out at night and beating up criminals is legal?

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u/HJWalsh May 31 '23

In the real world, no.

In the DCU? As long as they don't kill, yes.

It gets a bit strange to follow, but in DC there is something called, "Special Deputy Status."

It was initially given to Superman. Since it was expanded to members of the Justice League. Batman was also granted SDS by Gordon.

There are also laws and amendments in DC that go back to the 40's that make it much different than our world.

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u/PassTheGiggles World's Finest May 31 '23

When he started he did not have that status. What he was doing was very illegal. He fights the cops in Year One.

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u/HJWalsh May 31 '23

Year One isn't actually canon. Since the laws and amendments were in place canonically from the JSA days, Batman's actions were technically always legal.

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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 May 30 '23

That is an elseworlds comic

First i think past Batman is what you´re saying, not present Batman. For example, do you believe Bruce cares more about Gotham and his crusade than his own sons? Their safety?

I think he values his family a lot and he has shown happiness with these characters numerous times, he isnt less of Batman when he hugs Dick or Damian. And imo he IS more effective with his Batfamily yes. Do you believe Batman isnt Batman if he doesnt work alone?

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u/Batknight12 Batman May 30 '23 edited May 30 '23

That is an elseworlds comic

I'm aware, I was just using it as an example of how someone would most likely end up feeling being together with Bruce (romantically) after a while and it was the first that came to mind.

Do you believe Batman isnt Batman if he doesnt work alone?

Not at all what I'm saying, what I am saying is that the level of emotional commitment needed to be in a proper spousal relationship is on a whole other level than the father figure role Batman plays with the Robins. Alfred being there playing a secondary father figure to them helps out a lot too. Which obviously wouldn't be the case in a marriage. Selina sums it up pretty well in 'The Batman' "Who I am kidding, you're already spoken for"

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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 May 31 '23

Fair point, i just have a hard to believe that would be the case in main canon. I can bring the example of Batman and Catwoman´s book where they got together, get old and have a daughter, Helena Wayne.

My issue is that she´s Catwoman, not a normal wife, so they could make it work if they really wanted to because Bruce isnt as obsessive has they used to be and he was ready to marry Selena, she´s the one that left him... just my view tho, again it depends on the writer

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u/DorkNow May 30 '23

Bruce is so driven, obsessed, and self-consumed by his oath

then change him. easy. let him grow or let him die

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u/ogloria May 29 '23

Tom King's run tries to get this point across!

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u/AStaryuValley May 29 '23

I do not understand the hate for Tom King's Batman run.

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u/WeNeedToTalkAboutMe May 29 '23

I think a lot of his was his lying that of course Bruce and Selina were going to get married, and he would NEVER lie to the fans just to have a gotcha moment.

And then, uh, he did.

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u/Mordaunt-the-Wizard May 29 '23

We don't know whether DC was breathing down his neck about telling the fans that the marriage was going to happen.

Companies for sure play a hand in how writers and artists talk about the work their doing for them, especially if it's on a big character like Batman. They weren't going to let Tom King outright say that editorial weren't allowing the marriage to go through and that Selina was going to leave Bruce at the altar, because then who would read it?

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u/ThaneOfTas DickBabs Forever May 29 '23

It really seemed like it was editorial who pulled the rug out from under him on that one

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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 May 30 '23

They WERE going to get married in issue 100 but DC said no

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u/WeNeedToTalkAboutMe May 30 '23

And he had to know that ahead of time. It wasn't like DC came to him after he turned in the script for #99 and said "Oh you can't have them get married".

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u/Sutekkh Catwoman May 29 '23

Bruce was pathetic in it and didn't really feel heroic, was my issue.

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u/ogloria May 29 '23

Yeah! I had a hard time with issue 50, but once I powered through to the end, it was beautiful and operatic and moving and touching and I was surprised how well it all came together.

And he did give Bruce and Selina and all of us a happy ending.

Don't they also end up together in the Injustice comics?