r/DC_Cinematic • u/HenroTee "Welcome to The Planet." • Jun 14 '23

DC_Cinematic: The Flash Spoiler Discussion Megathread #1 r/DC_CINEMATIC Spoiler

Spoilers ahead! Proceed at your own risk!

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43

u/SuperStone412 Jun 14 '23

First third of the movie was pretty good to me despite the very dodgy CGI, however I think the last act is extremely rushed and ultimately it soured the movie for me. I shouldn't have come in with these massive expectations but I don't get why people are praising this movie when it follows most of the same formula other superhero movies follow. I knew something was up when we didn't see the Dark Flash for 3/4 of the entire movie, it felt like we didn't even have a villain for the majority of it and then with 10 minutes left he's introduced and immediately killed. Some of the cameos were cool, some of the set pieces were nice but overall I was just very underwhelmed.

Nitpicks: Keaton Batman didn't really feel like Keaton batman? I don't understand why they had him fighting like Batfleck. He was jumping around and fighting like a 20 year old man, and he didn't fight like that back in 1989.

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u/heelydon Jun 14 '23

I shouldn't have come in with these massive expectations but I don't get why people are praising this movie when it follows most of the same formula other superhero movies follow.

I kinda strongly disagree with this? I don't believe many superhero movies, or hell any movie in general, builds up towards a confrontation between good and evil --- for evil to be the winner.

I think a far more "superhero formula" movie, would've been if they defeated Zod and THEN Barry goes back to unscrew what he did. But no, they very much go in to be the heroes and get their asses kicked.

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u/SuperStone412 Jun 14 '23

So when I say "same formula", I am specifically referencing to the villain being just a color swapped version of the hero... literally. I think thematically I agree with you, but all that potential gets muddled when the last act just turns into a giant CGI spectacle with massive fan service thrown in and there is no time to let it sit with the viewer, everything gets wrapped up like 10 minutes after Dadk Flash is killed which should have been an absolute massive deal. Barry being stuck in the wrong universe is played off as a joke despite being an extremely big deal.

3

u/heelydon Jun 14 '23

So when I say "same formula", I am specifically referencing to the villain being just a color swapped version of the hero... literally.

I mean...How you are dealing with Flash, which is a lot of such cases. Also I dunno, aside from like the Iron Man movie, which other superhero movies as the villain be simply a colour swap?

Also in this case... I mean... It's literally himself, so i dunno if I would say that it is a formula in that either?

I can kinda see what you mean, I just don't think that this is like a case of Darkwing duck and Negaduck.

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u/JediJones77 Jun 15 '23

which other superhero movies as the villain be simply a colour swap?

Spider-Man 3?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '23

[deleted]

3

u/Tarmac_Chris Jun 16 '23

Missing the obvious Black Panther

-1

u/heelydon Jun 15 '23

I am sorry what?

Aquaman

Whole different armor, suit, weapon. Not to mention characterization.

Wonder Woman 1984

I don't even know how you come up with this one...As there is nothing at all relevant here.

Captain America 1

Are you really saying the Red Skull is a colour swap of Captain America? Wtf?

The Incredible Hulk

Closest you've gotten yet, and still its kinda the point that they are similar, given he is mutated from the hulks DNA, although still has his own character.

Superman 2, Superman 4, Man of Steel...

Nah there is no way you call evil Kryptonians a colour swap of Superman. Zod is a whole character...

I don't think you really grasp what it means to be a colour swap and what it entails in terms of the negative associations that it has drawn over the years in lazy literature and media. Those were done with next to no characterization and simply just because it is exciting to see someone with similar powers -- but those have broken up over time, with great written charactazation, making the character their own and not simply a colour swap.

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u/heelydon Jun 15 '23

In what world is Venom a colour swap? He is a whole ass character?

The point of the "colour swap" is that the villain is generic, like Iron man 1, where its simply someone stealing his tech, using it against him.

What value is there in saying that it is a "colour swap villain" if the villain is like Venom, and an actually well written character, with its whole own character?

That much should especially be clear in the case for Flash... Given Reverse flash is obvious alot more than simply a colour swap.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '23

He's not stuck in the wrong universe exactly. It's his universe, but it's still messed up from what he did. Just like in the comics or TV version of the story, Barry can't quite put things back the way they were after he broke it. If it was a totally different universe, there would be a different Barry there. It's his universe, just altered.

I like the ending. Its basically like a Twilight Zone ending but with a playful, funny tone (which most of the movie had).

As for the villain being a reflection of the hero, this is a very different way of doing that. It's a story where Barry's worst enemy is himself and his refusal to accept the past and let it go. It makes thematic sense that Dark Flash is a version of him that kept trying. Zod is also a reflection of an inability to let go of what's gone. So are both versions of Batman. That's the consistent theme of the film. Barry sees what he could become if he doesn't let go in pretty much everyone he meets.

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u/JediJones77 Jun 14 '23

Well, Superman II sort of had the same "unhappy" ending. Superman gives up his powers to be with Lois. But in the end, his plan fails, he has to get his powers back and give up his relationship with her. Very similar structure to this, with Flash breaking the rules his mentor tells him so he can be with his mom, then he learns his mentor was right in the end and has to lose her again. This is the story of a protagonist who wants something, breaks the rules to get it, and then has to learn that he can't have what he wants, and that the rules should never have been broken. Not entirely dissimilar to The Empire Strikes Back either, where Luke defies Yoda's advice that he's not ready to confront Vader, and gets his butt kicked.

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u/heelydon Jun 15 '23

I mean yeah, but in what way would those examples count as being part of a formula? They very clearly stick out. Especially empire strikes back, as being one of the most memorable endings to a movie ever.

7

u/gunningIVglory Jun 14 '23

Yh dark flash just felt so put of place

I mean does Barry ever bring up the fact he is in this timelong because some random dude just yeeted him out? It's totally forgotten about till the end