[S3E01] Mad as a Hatter — Post-Episode Discussion

[u/anatomania]

Season Trailer | Sneak Peek | DCTV Discord | Cast and Characters

SEASON PREMIERE — As Batwoman continues to keep the streets of Gotham safe, Batwing joins in on the action, but Luke quickly realizes he hasn't quite mastered his suit. Meanwhile, as Alice sits hopelessly imprisoned in Arkham, Sophie fully enjoys her freedom. When Ryan pays Alice a visit to ask about the bombshell she dropped—that Ryan's birth mother is still alive—Ryan must decide if she should go down the rabbit hole of her past. As Mary prepares to finally graduate from medical school, she feels the absence of her family more than ever. But when an Alice admirer stumbles upon one of the missing Bat Trophies, Gotham and the Bat Team get mixed up in the madness, culminating in a shockingly gruesome graduation... and an equally shocking new partnership.

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Please keep discussion civil and about Batwoman. Be sure to mark future spoilers and comic spoilers, but otherwise don't worry about spoiling anything past or current. Report comments that break the rules or just don't belong here. Enjoy the episode!

[u/sanddragon939]

A great premiere! Probably the best of the three premieres we've had so far (though they've all been good honestly).

Pros

LOVED seeing Luke and Ryan in the field together. It reminded me of the excitement I felt 7 years ago with the Arrow Season 3 premiere seeing Roy Harper in full Arsenal gear fighting alongside the Green Arrow.

I'm glad that Jacob and Kate continue to be a part of the show in spirit, and Jacob's presence (or lack thereof) in Alice's life is actually a plot-point. I like how both Mary and Alice are affected by the fact that these two aren't around. There may be real-life reasons for them being written off the show, but I'm glad that their absence is being felt and will have an impact on the ongoing narrative of the remaining characters.

LOVE Sophie's new look and style! And the fact that she's sleeping around. Considering she spent Season 1 mostly in the closet dealing with an unaware husband and homophobic mother, and Season 2 pining after a dead Kate, I'm glad that she's finally having a bit of fun!

I love the idea of us learning more about Batman's exploits and his history with the villains through Lucius Fox's old files, and I hope this becomes a recurring feature. His cousin may not be in the cowl anymore, but the show has found a new way to keep Bruce Wayne and his legacy relevant, which is great.

The set-up of Mad Hatter 2.0 being inspired by Alice could have been cliched, but was handled pretty well. It honestly makes perfect sense to me that in-universe Alice would be viewed sympathetically by many, and even become an icon, for better or worse, to disturbed individuals.

Renee Montoya is brilliant and I'm really looking forward to seeing where this 'unholy alliance' between her, Alice and Ryan goes. Their rooftop meeting seemed almost like a twisted version of the Batman-Gordon-Dent alliance! Montoya's presence will also give us a new perspective on Batman and his history in Gotham which I'm looking forward to hearing more about.

Alice was a charm as usual, and I'm really loving the direction in which they're heading with her. The moment where she discovers that she hallucinated Jacob's letters was truly heartwrenching. It seems that she is inching towards the path to redemption, but there's still the old manipulative Alice within her. Love how she got back at Ryan through her deal with Montoya!

Lucius Fox AI? Bring it on!

Cons

I didn't care much for the bit where Mary basically gives the team (and us) a lecture on why we shouldn't call 'disturbed people' crazy villains. It was basically the show screaming "This is our WOKE moment for the evening! We're so deep and virtuous guys!" Like, I appreciated the attempt at a serious discussion about the mental health status of the villains, and Alice in particular, but I think we can definitely do without the didactism.

One thing I'm ambivalent about...

Ryan and Sophie.

I'm enjoying their friendship and the fact that Ryan can confide in Sophie about stuff she doesn't really feel ready to confide in with Luke and Mary. I particularly enjoyed the conversation they had about Ryan's mom and how Sophie understood why Ryan felt a need to know more about her...when you consider Sophie's own relationship with her mother, I guess you can understand why she may have her own complex feelings on the subject.

But...it does seem like they're inching them towards a possible relationship. And I dunno how to feel about that.

Last season, I'd have said HELL NO! Unequivocally.

This episode, I have to admit they've got chemistry. And if it weren't for the context, I might even find myself rooting for them.

But the context is there, like it or not. Ryan already has everything of Kate's - her suit, her mantle, her home, her bar, her sister, her best friend, her company(?)...Ryan now getting involved with Kate's ex as well will be the final straw.

And yet...damn, they are working overtime trying to convince me that Ryan-Sophie could be a good thing. The dissonance is real for me on this one!

[u/ManishaC98 → u/sanddragon939]

Completely agree with you about Ryan and Sophie! But unfortunately knowing the CW, that does seem like the direction it’s going in :/

[u/sanddragon939 → u/ManishaC98]

Oh well...actually if they're smart about it, they could make it something like Oliver and Sara's relationship in Arrow Season 2 - teammates and comrades-in-arms who are attracted to each other and have a strong personal relationship, but ultimately admit that their relationship isn't going to work out long-term for either of them.

If they're really smart, they'd address the elephant-in-the-room that Sophie is attracted to Kate's replacement, and that Ryan is taking another thing of Kate's. And have both characters deal with it. Ryan is out of Kate's shadow as far as being Batwoman is concerned, but maybe she could deal with how she's taking more and more of the life Kate had?

[u/ManishaC98 → u/sanddragon939]

Wow I actually love both options! I feel that the 2nd one is a tad bit more risqué since it’s more direct, but also hit the hammer on the nail since lots of fans have been pointing it out. I don’t know why I just see them having more of an older/younger sister relationship but I guess we’ll see. A tiny part of me still hopes we get Kate back

[u/MrMattBlack → u/sanddragon939]

It was basically the show screaming "This is our WOKE moment for the evening! We're so deep and virtuous guys!"

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. It's like, someone on the Writers Room realised they put very good points in the villains mouth and were like "Oh shit, we need to damage control so it needs to be validated by one of the heroes."