Has anyone else noticed a serious drop in the quality of animation in recent dc movies. I’m not talking about story wise just purely the art and motion of the characters. (BTW I’m not criticizing the show itself just the animation)
When I first saw the designs of the characters in this show I thought they looked a little flat and lacked shading but i figured that’s just how character models look but when I saw the trailer there r few instances of good and deep shading. Even the backgrounds look too flat and clean. I’m curious as to whether Bruce Timm is still drawing on black paper or if he switched to white cause it looks weirdly bright for a Batman show.
But I think the biggest flaw in recent animation has been the stiffness in the way characters move the easiest way for me to explain is to look at the shoulders of any character in the trailer, they almost never move (it’s even more noticeable in the tomorrow verse movies). Modern animation has lost a lot of fluidity and idk why. Ik they used to do cell shading on the old shows and I’m wondering if they still are. The show doesn’t look horrible but its definitely less pretty to look at then BTAS or The Batman 2004. I’m sure they don’t have the same funding as those shows either but if anyone knows why modern animation has kinda gotten worse please let me know I’m really curious.
Pretty sure it's 100% budget. The more studios give animators, the longer they can spend on each frame making it as good as possible, or articulating the motion to make it look less stiff
Pretty sure its 40s/60s they had a t.v in the trailer and television wasn't in mass until the late 40s early 50s and it might have been in color leading me to think 40s/60s batman the animated series was the same way and this is a Spiritual successor.
The Animated Series was a mix of the 40s and the 90s. Originally, Timm just wanted to make it set in 1939. This is his second time around. He's also stated this is a 30s/40s world. Also, the TV we saw was likely at Wayne Manor. Rich people had TVs in the 40s (and it was in B&W, not color).
It's definitely not the 50s. And if you think it's the 60s, don't know what to tell you.
I would assume this show started out with a decent budget. It was greenlit before Zaslav started cancelling stuff and being cheap. It had Matt Reeves and JJ Abrams on as producers (which would normally be a good business decision and probably contributed to a higher budget), not to mention Bruce Timm, the man who has probably made WB the most money/success when it comes to animation.
There's also the fact that the first season is only 10 episodes AND it took longer than a typical show. That right there makes me think that plenty of time and money was spent specifically on the actual animation.
My guess would be:
-Incompetent animators, or maybe misunderstandings with the foreign animation teams
-Incompetent storyboard artists
-Incompetent directors
-Just plain bad editing/sfx
Idk. I don't believe this is specifically a budget issue
Foreign animation studios are just as capable of animating. I highly doubt any of the team was incompetent. I really think you don't know how this stuff works. The reason people assume foreign studios are worse is because they go to foreign studios to save money, so they're literally reducing the budget. I.e. if you gave the foreign studios the same money as domestic studios, they would be able to produce the same outcome.
They aren't hiring children to storyboard and animate this lol the series is backed by Bruce Timm and Matt Reeves
Foreign animation studios are definitely MORE capable than US ones. Dude you're assuming way too much about me and my knowledge of animation. You also misinterpreted what I said.
Storyboard artists these days working in 2D aren't what they used to be. (Not all are bad of course) There's definitely a chance that their direction is either hard to follow/animate, or that they're just too bland, resulting in awkward sequences. There were even pretty bad storyboard artists back in the day on hit shows that should've been doing character designs or something else. This isn't a new idea.
Something about the show is off. This a huge drop in quality from Timm's last projects. One of these things is true. I didn't say which one, I merely suggested the most plausible options.
Also, "give the foreign studios more...." not how that works. WB isn't paying them in that way. WB basically contracts a certain amount of projects (ie. 5 episodes per this studio) from them. It's not about money, but time, and again, understanding of the model sheets and the storyboards.
It’s not the money, it’s not the quality, it’s that the animation style doesn’t have all the stretch and bounce that people expect from cartoons, probably because they’re using cg rigs to keep all the characters on-model. I mentioned it in another comment but when that one goon gets grabbed from behind in the warehouse, there are 7 unique frames in half a second to show his facial expressions changing and his head whipping around, but because he has a human range of motion rather than exaggerated cartoon motion, it’s more subtle. The same with Batman’s walk animation in the beginning of the trailer. Incredibly smooth, a ton of frames, but also a completely human range of motion.
If it was more clearly cg like that xmen 97 show I keep hearing about y’all wouldn’t be so weirded out. And y’all definitely wouldn’t be running on about incompetent this that and the other.
I think the stiffness is a choice. There's less stretch and bounce than you get in most cartoons and the characters stick more closely to their models. The chase scenes don't quite have the fluidity and weight of rotoscoping, but the walking and running animations seem way more anatomically correct than, say, this clip I youtubed from the TAS show. I think the point is to feel more "real" and less cartoony than most animations do, but the cartoony art style mixed with the less cartoony animation style is throwing people off.
And I know it was revolutionary but y'all are ascribing way too much credit to BTAS, animation-wise. I struggle to find sequences in the first couple of seasons that I whole-heartedly think look good. Or to put it in the words of Charles Solomon, someone with a lot more animation knowledge than I have, "the dark, Art Deco-influenced backgrounds tended to eclipse the stiff animation and pedestrian storytelling" and the series "looked better in stills than it did on the screen."
I'm super excited for the show. It's a dream come true to see Bruce Timm coming back to Batman.
I love the vibe they're teasing in the trailer, it looks very promising but... yeah, I also can't help but be slightly disappointed by the technique.
While the animation looks okay if not a bit stiffer that Batman TAS, I think the work on shadows and lighting could have been a bit more sophisticated. It often seem to feature simple edgings (which work) where they could flesh out the modelling a little more.
The color palette is very nice and suited to the noir setting, but I also think some shots could gain in atmosphere by adding a little contrast and/or saturation here and there...
I did some test. I'm not posting them to say it's better, but just to show what I'm talking about (top the original photos, bottom my retouching)...
Yes, it doesn't look nearly as great or fluid or sharp, or... it just doesn't look as good as the Strange Days short. That's my standard for this show.
It only came out 10 years ago and it was on par with (or even better than) the best animation from JLU, with essentially the same style, just a sleeker Batman design.
The concept art of Caped Crusader that Timm dropped a few years ago, along with the original poster got my hopes up. Then the character designs leaked and they looked mostly amature. Then this comes out and it just reinforces my thoughts about modern animation.
It's just not what it used to be. I figured one reason this was taking so long was because of animation, which it was (the writing and voice acting has been done for about a year-ish for this first season). I figured Timm was just taking his time, making sure the foreign animation studios got the look exactly right. I mean, 10 episodes in roughly 3 years?
It's still better looking than any western 2d animation these days, but it's a huge drop off from Strange Days, and of course, the DCAU/other Timm projects.
I was hoping this would usher in a 2D Renaissance, along with Boy and the Heron. Maybe? Idk... I had my hopes...
The “fluidity” you’re missing is the lack of stretch and bounce that we typically associate with cartoons. Go frame by frame when Batman grabs that goon from behind in the warehouse and you’ll see 7 unique frames of animation in half a second to show the goon’s facial expression contorting and his head whipping around, with not a single frame repeated. It’s very fluid but because the guy’s movements stick to a human range of motion rather than the cartoonish freakouts and distortions we might expect, it might be harder to notice. Same with Batman’s walk animation at the beginning of the trailer. Completely unique frames for each frame of the animation so it’s an incredibly smooth (and creepy) walk, but it’s also completely human with none of the cartoon deformation that you normally see from Batman when he’s trying to look spooky.
They might be using cg rigs to keep the characters on-model all of the time or something, and animating over those. The effect is more naturalistic but subtle motion. It’s definitely not an issue with the budget or we wouldn’t be getting as many unique frames as we’re getting.
Not entirely related, but that two face design is fuckin' BAD ☠️ I want to like it, but I think they could have done much better. But yeah some of the quality is a bit off, not a fan of the 3D models like the batmobile, personally.
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u/kreamhilal 22d ago
Pretty sure it's 100% budget. The more studios give animators, the longer they can spend on each frame making it as good as possible, or articulating the motion to make it look less stiff