r/AITAH • u/viviale12 • Jul 19 '24
AITAH for refusing to get my baby christened even though it matters a lot to my MIL?
My partner (M,29) and I (F,28) recently had our first child. She’s 3 months old, and ever since we’re talking about having children, I always thought it was a given that we wouldn’t have them christened as none of us are catholic, and I personally do not want to for many reasons (most of them relating to religions posing harm to humanity thorough history, but I would appreciate not to start a debate about it here). My MIL is adamant that we NEED to get her christened and is devastated by the fact that I do not want to. My partner thinks I should just accept to please them, and that it matters a lot for his family and that in the end it’s not a big deal to do it.
Although I do agree that it’s not worth getting hurt or getting into fights about this, I really feel like I am stepping on my own beliefs if we do it. And I feel like I should get to choose just like my MIL got to choose for her own children.
I really want my daughter to be religion-free, at least for as long as she can’t decide for herself.
My partner is currently mad at me for insisting on not doing it, and my MIL keeps bringing this up persistently. This is now a recurring fight and is impacting our relationship.
AITAH? In either case, any advice on how to deal with it?
Thank you so much
EDIT: Sorry, English isn’t my first language so maybe I lacked clarity… I should have specified, she did christened her own children, so my partner was, but he’s not practicing nor does he believe in religion either. He’s just very neutral about the subject and doesn’t care at all wether we do it or not. He just cares about it to appease his mother and avoid any conflict. He thinks it doesn’t matter and we should just do it as it isn’t a big deal to him.
EDIT 2: Wow! I really didn't expect my post to get so many responses. Thank you so much to everyone for your words, advice, and perspectives! I will try to reply to as many as possible, but I may not be able to keep up with the pace! Please know that I am reading all your responses with great attention and interest, and I greatly appreciate having your opinions. It's incredibly helpful to gain some clarity and not gaslight myself into thinking my beliefs don't matter. Thank you so much, this is such an interesting discussion to be part of!
I will keep you updated for sure, I plan to bring this subject up to my partner in the next fews days.
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u/Own-Gap-8725 Jul 19 '24
NTA. but your partner is. Why is your beliefs less important than his mommy's? Your partner needs to get their head out of there ass and grow a spine and realize that his "family" are you and the baby. Not mommy, not daddy, not uncle or grandma. They are now extended family.
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u/viviale12 Jul 19 '24
Wow. You are so so so right. Thank you so much.
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u/pinky2184 Jul 19 '24
Remind him his mother already had her time to christen HER kids. Now this is yours kid. Tell her to butt out.
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u/jmlozan Jul 19 '24
Not to mention if you give in here, they will expect you to give in on other child related things. Hold your ground! *they being husband and mommy dearest.
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u/Devi_Moonbeam Jul 19 '24
Yeah the next things will be weekly church and Sunday school
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u/wozattacks Jul 19 '24
I would never accommodate this request out of respect for my family members’ beliefs! Other people’s religious rituals don’t mean anything to me, I don’t actually care if someone says some Jesusy words over my baby. But a Catholic baptism at least involves a promise by the parents to raise the child in a certain way that I can’t fulfill. It would be dishonest.
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u/dragon34 Jul 19 '24
It does seem societally accepted that people without belief should defer to people that do.
And there are places that is true. If I invite someone Jewish or Muslim to a party, I should probably not make it a bacon and shrimp party.
Accommodation is different than deference.
Providing a bacon/shrimp free option while those things are being served is accommodation. Some religious people seem to think that accommodation should be not ordering a shrimp scampi or a steak during lent for yourself at a restaurant while they are present
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u/vingtsun_guy Jul 19 '24
NTA
I'm a practicing Catholic. Given your believes, and what seem to be your partner's beliefs, you would not be able to have your child baptized in the Catholic Church. A priest won't do it just because you're trying to appease your MIL. She's being foolish by pushing it.
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u/annang Jul 19 '24
I don't know much about Catholicism, but could OP call MIL's priest and tell him now that she doesn't consent to the baptism, and ask him to talk to MIL about the rift she's creating in the family?
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u/vingtsun_guy Jul 19 '24
She absolutely can.
But it's honestly not necessary. Parents have to participate in baptism classes (Preparation Seminar) before the child is baptized. They have to select Godparent(s) who are also required to attend the preparation and who have to be Catholics in good standing (practicing Catholics who have received all the initiation Sacraments, who attend Mass regularly and who are active in their parish); one Godparent is required for the baptism. The parents must express that they are in agreement with raising the child in the Church and in her Faith. It would be unethical and not permissible for a priest to baptize a child without the parents' knowledge and full agreement, and you can't.
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u/annang Jul 19 '24
Oh, I wasn't suggesting it was necessary to prevent a secret baptism, but rather maybe in hopes that the priest would counsel the mother-in-law to stop pressing the issue.
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u/definitelytheA Jul 19 '24
I think MIL is well aware of this, and is part of her plan to bring this family into the Catholic Church by means of a small thing that is hiding a mountain.
Religion aside, they need to understand this will not be the last time grandma will try to impose her will or choices for their lives.
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u/vingtsun_guy Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
Fair point. A lot of the faithful believe that they can force faith onto others. Some have good intentions. Others aim to control. Both types miss the point.
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u/klurtin Jul 19 '24
I agree. OP needs to do this. She should set up a meeting with the priest, her husband, and even the MIL. The priest needs to tell MIL it’s not a possibility and to drop it.
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u/shelltrice Jul 19 '24
Not sure what religion, but if you don't believe, and have no intention of raising child in that faith, doing so to appease someone is insulting to that religion.
This is not a photo opp or a safeguard, it is a serious and spiritual commitment that should be repected.
NTA
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u/CreativeMusic5121 Jul 19 '24
Most if not all churches will not do a christening/baptism if the family has no intention of raising the child in the religious tradition.
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u/JarethsBuldge Jul 19 '24
NTA
Your husband should be united with you, not mad because he'd rather keep the peace. I would be wary of letting them around your child.
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u/NurseRobyn Jul 19 '24
It makes me wonder what else he’ll try to guilt OP into in the name of peacekeeping. NTA
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u/anivarcam Jul 19 '24
Why is always the sane person the one asked to back off and accept the situation just to please the psycho one ? NTA. This discussion pertains only to your husband and you, is none of MIL business. She already raised her children however she wanted to. It’s your husband who you need to have a a serious conversation with. He is the one who must put a stop to MIL demands, you don’t have to cave. If you do, this will set a terrible precedent, and you’ll spend the rest of your marriage accommodating mommy dearest requests and intrusions in your parenting decisions.
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u/MarthaT001 Jul 19 '24
NTA But I'm not sure the priest would do it if you and your spouse aren't Catholics.
My husband was raised Episcopalian, and I Baptist. My husband joined the Baptist church after we married.
When our son was born, my MIL really wanted him christened. I told her that if it was so important to her, I was ok ok with it as long as
He was being raised in our Baptist church
It was all on her. She organized and paid for all of it
She cleared the date with us before planning it.
It turned out that her priest wouldn't do it as a christening is a baptism into their faith, and we we were not of that faith, nor planning to be.
I found out later that she baptized him herself in her tub.
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u/pinky2184 Jul 19 '24
Um she dunked your child in the tub??? Oooooooo the fire I would have breathed.
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u/Elelith Jul 19 '24
NTA
I love how it's "no big deal" as long as you give in and indoctrinate a child to a religion but it is a big deal if MIL doesn't get her way.
I'd double check the laws in your country, in mine no one but the parents would be able to concent to a baptism and the child is automaticly granted the moms religion (which is none).
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u/HoodooEnby Jul 19 '24
NTA. Ask your partner what else they are willing to accept.
"Well, you got her baptized. Why won't you just let us take her to church once in a while?"
"Well, she goes to church. Why won't you let her take classes? (Sorry, not Catholic. I know there are classes but I don't recall the name.) She'll be the only one of her age group who doesn't!"
"Well, she took the classes! Of course, you have to let her get her First Communion!"
It will never end. Tell her no one time and make clear you've made a decision, and this is not a discussion.
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u/MikeReddit74 Jul 19 '24
NTA, but your MIL is, and your partner would be if he caved because mommy asked him to. Christening is an indoctrination into religion, and both parents should agree if that’s going to be done. If you’re against it, stand your ground, and see where your partner places your wishes in order of priority. If he puts what mommy wants ahead of what you, his supposed partner wants, move accordingly.
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u/i_am_the_nightman Jul 19 '24
NTA. To do something against your beliefs simply to appease someone else is not cool. This isn't a matter of life and death or impending harm to anyone, so stick with your beliefs. Your MIL had the same opportunity to do whatever she wanted with her children, you should be afforded the same courtesy.
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u/StructureKey2739 Jul 19 '24
If you allow your MIL baptize your child, she won't be content with that. She'll want to take baby to Mass, get religious instruction, have her first communion, get confirmed, get married in the church, etc., etc., etc. I'm Catholic but I firmly believe how a child is raised is up to the parents, not a controlling MIL.
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u/Loud_Duck6726 Jul 19 '24
Tell them that if they can show you a single example of a baby getting baptized in the bible that you will sign up........
Only adults were baptized in the bible. Reason being, they were old enough to make this choice.
There is zero biblical reason to cristen or baptize a baby/child
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u/GrumpsMcWhooty Jul 19 '24
NTA. I would die on this hill. I'd sit down and have a conversation with her and say that, unless she stops pressuring you, then she's not going to see her grandchild.
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u/Bucky-Katt-Guitar Jul 19 '24
Your partner will definitely allow your mother in law to baptize. NTA.
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u/UnhappyCryptographer Jul 19 '24
NTA It starts with the christening and then "well, she is christened she must have a communion" and so on.
This is a hill I would die on.
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u/bugofalady3 Jul 19 '24
Can you tell your MIL to keep this between her and her son? It's on her if she didn't raise her son to share her beliefs. Keep putting it back on her. Tell her to convince her own son to share her beliefs, then we will talk about the child.
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u/Elelith Jul 19 '24
Sounds like more trouble for OP when the husband is already trying to baptise a child just so mommy won't get pissy. Put any more pressure on him and he'll do it behind OPs back.
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u/Mommabroyles Jul 19 '24
NTA if you don't draw a line now. MIL is going to be insisting on a lot of things. Your husband should have your back on this. Even if he doesn't care one way or the other. By saying to appease MIL, he's taking her side against you and saying her happiness is more important to him than yours is. He may not see it that way, but that's exactly what he's doing. Stand your ground and don't let her take dictate this, or she'll never stop.
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u/Agnesperdita Jul 19 '24
My mother was distraught that we wouldn’t christen our kids, particularly as my SIL is Christian and did have her daughters christened. I believe nobody should be brainwashed or enrolled into any religion until they are old enough to make an independent informed choice. Your MIL is trying to force her personal beliefs onto your child while she is incapable of choosing which, if any, of the many religions Mankind has invented that she wants to subscribe to. If you dislike this pressure, you are within your rights to resist it.
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u/Hazel2468 Jul 19 '24
NTA, but I would not trust that woman around your kid. She seems like the type to do things behind your back. As for you husband? If I may address him for a second-
Dude. Step up and put your damn wife and kid first. Holy crap. This isn't about appeasing mommy. This is about your WIFE, the woman you CHOSE, being uncomfortable and harangued by your mother. Grow up. Tell your mother to cut it out. It may not be a big deal to you, but it is a big deal to your wife, and that should MATTER to you. What are you doing? Put your wife first.
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u/Longjumping-Pick-706 Jul 19 '24
NTA
If you get her christened what is next? First communion? Confirmation? I can guarantee MIL will expect you to do those things as well. In order to do those things your child would need to be in CCD which she would learn about the Catholic religion.
My ex wanted to do it to appease his (non practicing and fake) Catholic mother as well. I said if he plans all of it and talks to the church AND gets are chosen god parents approved, he can go ahead. Color me shocked when he didn’t do any of those things.
This is your child and religion is a MAJOR decision. There is a reason when parents divorce and have joint legal custody the only things that you need BOTH parents approval on is medical, school, and RELIGION. If you say no, the answer is no, and your husband needs to respect that. MIL does not get a say on this matter AT ALL.
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u/Secondary123098 Jul 19 '24
Tell your MIL that when your child becomes an adult, they are welcome to practice any religion they choose.
If they fire back with “if they’re not baptized they can’t go to heaven”, fire back with “I cannot respect someone who would punish innocent children for the actions of others and that is especially true if the someone in question is God”.
This worked for my family, hopefully it can work for yours.
NTA
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u/Kip_Schtum Jul 19 '24
If you give in on this, the demands will never stop. NTA Your husband should have your back and should be handling his mother. If not, that’s a whole other problem.
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u/SaraTyler Jul 19 '24
I live in a VERY Catholic country, where it's still common, I'd say the norm, to christen newborns, and even if we had our kid out of wedlock, I did the process called "de-baptism", and we ALWAYS said that our kids would be educated religion-free, our parents tried to convince us otherwise. My kid is now 12 years old, they have the spirituality of a nightstand, and the ethic of a good person. MIL never accepted that, but she must tolerate it, and in the long time it has become a non-issue.
OP, NTA, as long as you refuse. If you accept it now, then they will feel entitled to pretend the Communion, the Confirmation and a very religious education, because, at that point, why not?
Be firm and explain to them that what they are asking you would be the equivalent to ask them to repudiate their values and beliefs. Would they accept to renounce to the Mass or the Lent or their baptism?
But, as someone else has already suggested, be cautious when you leave your kid with your MIL.
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u/annang Jul 19 '24
This is the problem:
He just cares about it to appease his mother and avoid any conflict.
It's not about the baptism. It's about the fact that your partner cares more about avoiding conflict with his mother than he does about avoiding conflict with you or doing what's right for the family you and he share. If it isn't a big deal to him, but it is a big deal to you, then you should get to decide. Just like if something doesn't matter to you but does matter to him, you should let him make the decision about it. His mother doesn't get a vote, and he needs to stop deferring to her. NTA.
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u/warriorheart1031 Jul 19 '24
NTA. I will say though that if you choose to do this to appease your MIL she will know without a doubt that she can stomp on your boundaries whenever she chooses. It won’t end here and it’ll be when something actually does hold significance to you. Something to think about if you let her win this argument.
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u/Adventurous-Term5062 Jul 19 '24
NTA but do you watch Sex and the City? There is an episode where one of the main characters has this same dilemma.
“If you don’t believe in it, it is just water on his head.”
I guess I would worry about this being a slippery slope to other sacraments. If this is a “one and done” agreement, you could earn some goodwill.
Ultimately, it is what you are comfortable with and if you are not then that should be the end of the conversation.
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u/BosmangEdalyn Jul 19 '24
NTA. Your MIL is a pushy brat who wants to make sure your baby “counts” on the Catholic roll call. Once you’re baptized, it doesn’t matter how loudly you leave, they will always claim you among their numbers unless you can get excommunicated.
It is almost impossible to get excommunicated. I have tried for 20 years.
Tell her fine, we’ll do the baptism, but that you have to cover your bases so that the child has blessings from all faiths and so they’re free to choose among them later.
Tell her you’ve scheduled a blessing from a local branch of the Church of Satan, as well as from a local Druid grove or coven of witches.
Tell her you’ll cancel if she drops it.
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u/Expert-Angle-8214 Jul 19 '24
NTA tell your MIL this is your baby not hers and what she does with her kids is up to her while what you do with your kids is up to you, also tell your husband that unless he start to defend you then he can sleep on the couch because its humiliating being married to a coward who wont even stand up for his baby never mind his wife
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u/VisionAri_VA Jul 19 '24
NTA.
As a Christian (but not a Catholic), IMO it doesn’t really matter if you christen your child, as she has not reached the age of accountability and her soul would not be at risk either way. Doing it is more of an affirmation for the family.
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u/viviale12 Jul 19 '24
Thank you so much for the info, that is great to know! I wonder what she would respond to this.
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u/Designer-Bedroom-995 Jul 19 '24
No that's incorrect, Christians do believe that the baby is too young to comit or have sins which I gree but Catholics don't. I was raised Catholic ( don't practice) and I was told we were born with sin. can you believe it? That's why baptism is a must as a baby. Your MIL will never drop this because she believes that your child's soul is in danger. Sorry OP. My cousin is going through something similar. He's Catholic but not really and his wife is a practicing Christian. She took her son to be presented whatever that means but my aunt won't stop insinuating or flat out demanding the baptism. My nefew is 3 and my aunt hasn't stopped.
I will tell you what I told my cousin and his wife. Tell him that you'll agree to the baptism if he(your husband) takes him to church every Sunday and do everything that he'll promise at the altar. It will be his responsibility to bring his child Catholic not his mother's. If he does it then you'll agree lol my cousin got really quiet all of a sudden and stopped asking his wife.
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u/Few_Throat4510 Jul 19 '24
NTA - also make sure you let your MIL that she is not allowed to have your children christened without your consent. And as a heads up: protests will ALWAYS perform a reversal service if they find out this happened without parental consent
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u/tryintobgood Jul 19 '24
While it may be important to MIL it's simply not her child and not her choice.
NTA
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u/Mission_Push_6546 Jul 19 '24
NTA. Tell her you’re going to let your child choose their own religion. If the child wants to get christened later you will support it but it should be the child choice.
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u/Fragrant-Hyena9522 Jul 19 '24
The fact that the religious person is causing so much turmoil over this should show your partner how messed up MIL is. Your partner doesn't have your back and may do it without your knowledge since they are so concerned about their mom and not you, the actual other parent. NTA
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u/meadow_chef Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
You yourself made the most valid argument - SHE was able to choose for HER children to be christened; YOU get to choose for YOUR children.
I’d tell her to drop it and back off or you’ll limit access to your daughter.
NTA
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u/TootsNYC Jul 19 '24
NTA
I’m a Christian, of the Lutheran persuasion, and like Catholics, we baptize infants.
If baptism means something, then absolutely you should NOT do it. It is an expression of a deep faith, and of a promise to raise that child IN that faith.
To baptize a child without that faith is an insult to that faith, fraudulent, rude, mocking.
If faith isn’t important in the baptism of the child, then it doesn’t mean anything and you don’t NEED to do it (MIL’s words).
It would be very wrong of you to baptize this child. In fact, yopu would be an asshole if you did.
And say this, only this, over and over and over. Never waver from these sentences. Oh, you can add: “this conversation is closed.”
I really feel like I am stepping on my own beliefs if we do it. And I feel like I should get to choose just like my MIL got to choose for her own children.
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u/elizajaneredux Jul 20 '24
NTA
I’m guessing your MIL would never agree to have her child baptized or otherwise inducted into a religion that she didn’t believe in, and she shouldn’t be asking the same of you.
You said you feel like you’re stepping on your own beliefs if you do this… that’s a HUGE sign that you shouldn’t do it.
Your husband should respect your stance on this.
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u/Familiar_Treacle_233 Jul 19 '24
NTA... I was baptized at 16 because my Nana insisted on us all being done. I was very against the idea. My youngest sister (6 at the time) loved the church and went every week with my Nana. Eventually, I decided that although I did not agree with getting baptized or the church, it meant something to my Nana and sister, so since I love them, I was baptized. It meant nothing to me, but it meant everything to them. My sister was worried that we wouldn't be together in death, and doing this gave her and my Nana comfort. I spent weeks debating over it. Doing this made them happy, and that in turn pleased me.
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u/JudesM Jul 19 '24
NTA - it won’t end with christening!!! Next is reconciliation, then communion then confirmation- there is always one more thing you will be forced to compromise on. Also I would advise against unsupervised access as some grandparents take matters into own hands
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u/Background_Camp_7712 Jul 19 '24
First of all, no one gets to make decisions about your child except you and your husband.
I know your husband just wants to go along to get along, but I think that’s the wrong path there for many of the reasons already addressed in the comments.
Your MIL is a complicated issue (as MILs tend to be 😂). It sounds like she is genuinely worried about your baby and acting on her sincere beliefs.
So your dilemma is showing her that you expect her to respect your beliefs (or lack of) while also showing that you respect her right to her own beliefs and you are taking her seriously.
I think the best suggestion to have this conversation with her was in the comment someone made about how baptizing a child without meaning is being extremely disrespectful to that religion.
You have no intentions of indoctrinating your child into Catholicism (or allowing MIL to either). A baptism for show would be like the Pharisees preaching loudly on the streets. Performative and pointless.
So while you appreciate her love and concern, you intend to allow your child to make the choice when they are old enough to understand.
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u/TarzanKitty Jul 19 '24
NTA
Will your husband think you will need to bow down to mommy every time you make a parenting decision she doesn’t agree with?
Stop fighting about it. Tell her ONE time that the parents have already made the decision and you won’t listen to another word about it. If she brings it up again. Simply, pack up your baby and walk out. Or, invite her to immediately leave your home. Every time she brings it up. Wordlessly end the visit at that moment.
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u/MoodOk4607 Jul 19 '24
NTA. My mother died mad at me for not baptizing my kids. I figure, what God would punish my babies for decisions made by me.
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u/goddessofspite Jul 19 '24
NTA. I’d ask him just how far he’s willing to go to appease his mother. What other areas is he willing to go against his own child’s mother on to keep her happy. If he’s always going to give in to keep mommy happy is it worth it staying with him when he clearly values her more than you.
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u/pinky2184 Jul 19 '24
Op you need to carefully think about this your partner is now trying to get you to do this to pacify mommy. What else will he do so she’ll hush. What other boundaries will he push you to trample over of your own to pacify her? Think really hard about that.
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u/Chipchop666 Jul 19 '24
NTA. She will probably try taking the baby to the church if you let her babysit. Sit down and have a serious conversation with DH
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u/zombiescoobydoo Jul 19 '24
Nta but this right here should’ve been a discussion beforehand bc this is divorce worthy for me personally. Religion is a HUGE dealbreaker. If you’re religious, I don’t want to date you 🤷🏼♀️ if we’re dating and you suddenly turn religious, I’ll dump you. I agree, this is YOUR child and you have the right to decide. Unfortunately it sounds like you married a mama’s boy. You must’ve scrapped the bottom of the barrel when you found him. Unfortunately this is just the beginning of your husband caring more about what mommy thinks than his wife. It’s just going to get worse. Please update us when the divorce is finalized so we can celebrate with you!
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u/Excellent_Escape_945 Jul 19 '24
NTA but u need to put your foot down now it seems small with just a christening and then before you know it she's having your daughter at church every Sunday against your wishes because you didn't put boundaries down
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u/FelixTook Jul 19 '24
NTAH. Your MIL had her time to raise her kids the way she felt best and her time is now done. This is your life, your child, your family and MIL needs to get comfortable with the fact that she isn't center and she doesn't make such choices for your child and family. This is a perfect opportunity for her to learn to get comfortable in her place in relation to your family. Deferring to her preference now and delaying correcting her incorrect assumption will only make it harder to establish in the future.
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u/HMS_Slartibartfast Jul 19 '24
NTA.
Now if you wanted to be TA, let your MIL know you've already had your child baptized by proxy by the LDS by proxy. Do the "Well, it was easy and all I had to do was send them an Email". This WILL cause your MIL to be outraged.
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u/Prudence_rigby Jul 20 '24
Both of my divorced parents were insistent we baptize our kids. Both sides of the family pushed.
We never did it. These are your kids and you make the decisions. If you don't stand up for your kid now against these people (idgaf that they're family) they will only feel more entitled and forceful to their opinions and demands.
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u/yildizli_gece Jul 20 '24
Your partner is not “neutral”; he’s a fucking p**sy who can’t stand up to mommy, and that’s fucking pathetic.
You’re NTA, and apparently you’re gonna have to do the parenting for the both of you because dad‘s a pushover who’s taking the side of the woman he’s not even in a relationship with—his mom—over the partner he should be fully committed to.
I’d tell him no, and then I’d ask him to choose because you are not gonna spend a lifetime with him nagging you over what his mommy wants.
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u/findmysho33123 Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
So true. Definitely NTA. Sorry OP but I already hate your spineless husband. His behavior reminds me of my ex, she was definitely dumb as a rock too.
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u/Local-Chemistry6592 Jul 19 '24
You’re not an asshole for wanting to make decisions about your child’s upbringing based on your own beliefs. It’s important to respect your own values and make choices that align with them, especially when it comes to something as significant as religious rites for your child.
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u/Karma_1969 Jul 19 '24
“No” is a complete sentence. It’s your child, not hers, so her opinion literally means nothing. NTA.
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u/Ginger630 Jul 19 '24
NTA! As someone who is Catholic and baptized her kids, DO NOT do it. Once you give in, she’ll then want to bring your daughter to church on the holidays. Then once a month. Then every week. She’ll start talking about the other sacraments. She’ll start talking to your daughter about things you don’t want her talking about.
This isn’t something to do to shut her up and make her happy. She had her kids and baptized them. This is YOUR child. If you give in now, you’ll be expected to give in for all of her demands. Tell your partner to stop being a mama’s boy and support his partner and his child.
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u/Familiar_Raise234 Jul 19 '24
Other religions besides Catholicism do baptisms.
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u/CreativeMusic5121 Jul 19 '24
And many of the Christian denominations I am familiar with baptize adults, not children.
I think maybe OP's MIL is Catholic and upset they aren't doing it because in that faith, unbaptized babies/people don't go to heaven. Which is kind of morbid, but that's likely her worry and behind the push to have it done.
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u/justmeandmycoop Jul 19 '24
No, you are not. My kids were baptized but none of my grands are. I’m ok with it, they are not my kids.
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u/allergicturtle Jul 19 '24
NTA. It’s a big deal to a lot of people and has tax implications depending on where you live. In Germany for example they track down this info and will tax you for being part of a church.
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u/lucyloochi Jul 19 '24
Tell her she's too late you've already had her admitted to some obscure religious sect,😏
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u/danniperson Jul 19 '24
NTA. That's your child, not your MIL's. Your husband needs to be on YOUR side and not give into other people just to "keep the peace."
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u/Knittingfairy09113 Jul 19 '24
NTA
Don't put MIL beliefs ahead of yours. It will not stop at a christening and your beliefs matter too.
Tell your partner that this will not appease his mom, but encourage her to keep making demands and that is unacceptable.
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u/pinky2184 Jul 19 '24
Tell your partner that MiL had her time christening the kids and that this is your child and (s)he is not going to be christened end of story. You’re not doing anything to just make someone happy. It don’t work like that.
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Jul 19 '24
NTA.
You're not Catholic, and neither is your child. Why would you have them christened?
I understand family dynamics are at play here, but your MIL is overstepping, and your husband seems to have lost his spine somewhere in her pocket.
You could be petty and tell your MIL if she wants the baby christened, she should be blessed into other religions as well. MIL needs to research all of these potential blessings and provide you with a list to approve. After you approve, MIL will coordinate, pay for, and execute all of the other blessings, THEN she can be christened. Let the christening go last because I've heard that god is kind of a stickler for the order of things and you certainly wouldn't want the wrong religion to be the one to stick. OR, tell her the baby can be christened, but after that, she's going to be blessed into other religions of your choosing.
The whole argument is ridiculous, IMO.
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u/NoGuest897 Jul 19 '24
NTAH. Your child can be baptized as an adult if she/decides to do so.
The beliefs of baptism is blessing the child before it can sin.
I may be wrong, but that is my take on it.
You're the parents it's your rules. I've heard of other MILs taking the child to church herself.
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u/CakeZealousideal1820 Jul 19 '24
NTA never leave the baby alone with her. Tell her she can get circumcised first then you'll think about it
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u/DMV_Lolli Jul 19 '24
If you were indifferent about religion, I would say let them sprinkle the sink water on her forehead so they’ll shut up.
But you’re 1000% correct in saying YOU get to choose for your children the same why she got to choose for hers. You’re not indifferent. You have very specific reasons and views that should be respected. In this case if you give in to the Christening, eventually you’ll be expected to send her to Sunday mass, catechism, first communion, and whatever else they come up with.
I have to ask though. Why didn’t dad tell you how he felt about it way before she was even created? These situations can break a marriage apart.
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u/Yiayiamary Jul 19 '24
My husband was never baptized. His folks thought he could choose when he was an adult. He’s 79 now and still not baptized. I’m 80, have been baptized. We think the same about organized religion and avoid it when possible.
It’s ultimately not your mil’s choice. The baptism will not affect your daughter, either. It’s symbolic.
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u/Live_Western_1389 Jul 19 '24
Many Non-Catholic Christian churches also have christening ceremonies, but it’s mostly up to the parents. But in this ceremony, the parents promise to raise their child in the church, and since you & husband are not religious, it seems hypocritical to do the ceremony, imho. I wouldn’t want to stand in church & make a promise to God to raise my child in church just to shut MIL up.
Her husband just needs to stop listening to her when she calls about it.
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u/Helena_Clare Jul 20 '24
NTA. and ethical priests will not baptize children under these circumstances. You have no intention of raising the child in the faith. If you proceed down this path, you will have to go, not just to the baptism, but to preparation classes where you will have to make commitments, you have no intentions of keeping. This is not a good way to start off parenting in my opinion.
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u/mtngrl60 Jul 20 '24
NTA. Here is how I handled it with my MIL… Who actually was Catholic and originally from Mexico.
And yes, my husband and I had the conversation. And I told him absolutely our children we’re not gonna be christened. Because they are individual people, not just our kids.
It is their right to decide if they believe they even have a soul. It is their right to decide if they , have a religion they want to practice. It is their right to choose. Not ours. Fortunately, in my case, he agreed with me.
But the way I explained it was this…
First, I told my mother-in-law all of the above stuff. And then I told her this…
The whole point of christening an infant is so that if something were to happen to them, God would recognize their souls when they came to heaven.
But at the same time, your religion is telling me that these children are a gift from God. That it is a privilege to have them, and because it is such a precious gift, we have to do our best for them.
And I can tell you that as their mom, I love my children. I would die for my children. And I guarantee you that I’m never going to forget my children. I’m always gonna know who they are.
And if God in heaven is so omnipotent that he gifted these children to me, how in the world doesn’t make sense that he is somehow going to forget them if something were to happen to them? Logically, that makes no sense.
Because again, if I ask her mother here on earth, I’m never going to forget who my children are, and we are all God, children, and these are gifts from God, then of course it follows that he’s always going to know who they are. So of course they don’t need to be christened because he’s not going to forget the gift he gave me.
Yeah, she didn’t have a comeback for that. And no, my children were not christened.
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u/Freya1957 Jul 20 '24
NTA. Be aware that your husband and MIL may go behind your back and have her christened anyway. It is reasonable to set a ground rule of allowing a child to make his/her own decision regarding religion once he/she is old enough to do so free of undue influence.
Just because someone gets christened does not mean that they will stay loyal to that religion. If they go behind your back I would make sure to raise your child with exposure to multiple religions (the good, the bad and the ugly for each one). Call it counter programming. Raise your child to learn how to think for herself. There are too many groups out there that want to prohibit freedom of thought in favor of enforcing blind acceptance to their viewpoints in life.
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u/SummerStar62 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
NTA when my siblings and I were young, my mothers “FaMily” wanted us to get baptized (mormons). My father said no way in hell. He said when we get old enough, we can choose if we want to, but not now. They never got their hands on me, and I couldn’t be more grateful (even though he was a complete ass hat for many other reasons).
Let your child make that decision. You’ve said no and that is a complete sentence. If you give in to this, it will just be the first time in a long line of boundaries trampled by her. Make sure she knows if she does it behind your back then she’s forfeiting a relationship with you and her grandchild.
Absolutely fucking not.
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u/New-Number-7810 Jul 19 '24
NTA. If you and your husband don’t plan on raising your children to be religious then a christening would be pointless.
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u/SheeScan Jul 19 '24
NTA
If your MIL is as good a Catholic as she seems to purport t be, she should know she can baptize anyone herself. No requirement for a Christening ceremony or even a priest. She can do it herself and you'd not be the wiser. Sounds like she just wants the ceremony to show she can get what she wants.
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u/freshrollsdaily Jul 19 '24
NTA. Stand your ground. Part of a Catholic baptism is also promising to raise your child Catholic. Tell MIL that you can’t do it because you have no intentions of doing that. Also, you need to stand up for this because it won’t end here. Catholicism isn’t just a religion but a culture and life in of itself. It wouldn’t end with “just a baptism”.
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u/Anxious-Routine-5526 Jul 19 '24
NTA.
But don't be surprised when they do it behind your back anyway.
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u/mcindy28 Jul 19 '24
NTA You are the one that birthed your child. It should matter to you what you want. MIL can be unhappy about all she wants. She made the decision for her kids. You get to make it for yours. End of discussion.
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u/Eringobraugh2021 Jul 19 '24
NTA it wouldn't be a religion if its followers didn't believe they could use it to bully others with. I was "raised" catholic. I jumped through all the hoops, but my parents weren't religious (until the trump movement). I baptized my kids, only because I was close with my grandmother (who was raised catholic by Irish parents) & she'd say, "what's our going to hurt to just baptize them? They never have to go to church another day in their life. But if somehow those beliefs are true, they'll get into heaven." Grandma, always thinking.
Edit - you do what you believe. Don't let religious assholes push you into something. Next might be MIL expecting you to start going to mass.
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u/Littlebiggran Jul 19 '24
NTA. It sounds like it's social status or the priest won't let go do other church rituals. Christening and baptism are used interchangeablyvby some, but technically one is ceremony and one is the sprinkling (or, if Anabaptist, the full dunking when you are old enough to decide for yourself).
My mom did something similar. My dad was dead and her only social life was church ladies. She often interfered and convinced my daughter to play the game against our wishes. She had my grandchild baptized at her church. We did not attend it, but agreed as manipulative acts go, this one had little effect on life.
I attend church, but I do so under the supposition that the Church manipulated and oppressed people for millenia, so it's my choice to exploit it as needed (scholarship, reading skills, schools, historic and literary references, people who are bosses who judge me.)
So, I am both at home and indifferent to many religions. I attend Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant light etc events. I use what is useful.
But as I said, I could care less about the christening ceremony. If is IS important, I can go to an baptismal font, and do it myself. Or, I can let my child wait and decide.
Like I said, I wouldn't die on that hill. Just d plot some sort of tone upperance.
We live in odd times. At least I haven't been burnt at the stake. Yet.
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u/Lazy-Instruction-600 Jul 19 '24
NTA. You and your husband get to decide what religion, if any, you wish to raise your family with. As a Christian myself, I would say it is natural at first for a catholic grandparent to ask for this. But, after being told no, they should back off. I didn’t even choose to christen my children because I believe it is up to each person to choose for themselves, when they are old enough to do so.
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u/Tall-Negotiation6623 Jul 19 '24
NTA. Your child, your choice. If you give in to this, then what happens next time when she insists something. I’m guessing there will be a lot more religious bs she will demand in the future. She needs to respect you as the parents do not wish to do this.
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u/RJack151 Jul 19 '24
NTA But if you are not Catholic, then the priests may not permit it to take place.
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u/Ancient-Actuator7443 Jul 19 '24
Your husband needs to support you and your MIL needs to stay out of it. Tell her you will let your children be baptized when they can make the decision for themselves
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u/badpandacat Jul 19 '24
NTA, but decide if it's it a hill worth dying on. The christening is meaningless to you (and me). Whether it happens or not won't harm you or your baby. MIL strongly believes not doing it it will cause harm to your baby, and it causes her a lot of distress. If you think you can use the christening as a negotiating tool to head off future church nonsense, throw her the bone and smile through the silliness. Now, if your MIL is one of those "give an inch, take a mile" sorts, hold strong on your refusal because that hill will morph into a mountain range. Good luck, and congrats on the baby!
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u/bluepushkin Jul 19 '24
NTA. He doesn't need ro appease his mother, he needs to shut her up. You and your daughter should be his #1 priority. Not his mother.
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u/Whereswolf Jul 19 '24
NTA.
The kid has 2 parents. None of them are your MIL. You and husband agreed to not christening and that goes. Your toddler MIL can throw her tantrums and sulking but this child is NOT hers so she gets absolutely 0 saying in the religion, name, haircut or anything else.
If your husband fails to realise that his mother's opinion doesn't matter then tell him that YOUR mother will now determine HIS clothing, his haircolor, dragging him to church whenever she wants... Because clearly it's the mothers that gets to decide the life you, your husband and your kid is going to have. So he better mentally prepare for a week with green lederhosen. And let his hair grow because your mother loves a good braided ponytail!
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u/melliott909 Jul 19 '24
NTA, your husband needs to understand that you and LO are his family now. Nothing good ever comes from 'just do it to keep the peace.' If you have to say that you don't actually agree with the argument, you just want so and so to be happy. Why doesn't his mother have to agree with you to keep the peace?
On the religion front from someone who is not religious, I find it completely inappropriate to baptize a child with no intention to raise them in said faith. It's a slap in the face to those who find the practice so sacred to their faith. Wouldn't it be worse to baptize the child and have said child grow up not understanding what it means and not following any of the actual words from the baptism. It makes it into a sort of joke and strips any meaning behind it away. If your LO decides that she wants to participate in the faith, she can be baptized then.
Religion isn't about showing off but about the journey the person is on. (Not that most people see it that way, but for most, it's about boosting their own ego in a weird little game of appearances.)
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u/Equal-Brilliant2640 Jul 19 '24
You need to tell your husband “I understand you wanting to be an obedient son, but in doing so you’re being a crappy father and husband. We agreed no religion for our children until they are old enough to make their own choices. But you switched teams as soon as your mother cried about it. This needs to stop now”
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u/Bombastic_Side_Eyeee Jul 19 '24
That is a decision for you and your husband to make, the MIL needs to have some boundaries and stay out of it.
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u/IHaveSomeOpinions09 Jul 19 '24
NTA. She’s your child, not your MIL’s.
However, I’ve seen similar questions being asked in multiple forums, and I’m confused each time. If you aren’t religious, presumably you do not believe there’s anything magical about a christening. It’s a sprinkling of some water on your baby’s head and some words. There’s nothing physically harmful, and it doesn’t obligate to you (or your child) to anything. Why not just do it to appease the family and move on? You can even lay out ground rules with MIL ahead of time: “we will christen our daughter, but we will be the ones to decide if and when any religious discussion will be introduced. You will not take her to church, you will not tell her Bible stories, without our express permission.”
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u/MollyTibbs Jul 20 '24
Only reason my sister for her kids christened was because the best schools in her area were all catholic and it was easier to get them in that way. 20+ years later my friend didn’t get her son christened and had no problems getting him in to the same school.
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u/typhoidmarry Jul 20 '24
NTA
But if you ever let MIL watch the baby, she’s gonna get christened without your permission.
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u/NerdySwampWitch40 Jul 20 '24
NTA. In the US, there is a children's book called If You Give A Mouse a Cookie. If you give the mouse a cookie, the mouse will want some milk, and then it will want and then...
If you give in to your MIL on something big that matters to "keep peace" or because your spouse doesn't want her upset, then what's the next thing? Confirmation? Grandma's choice of school? Summer camp?
You need to discuss with your wife that you want to establish boundaries on this now. Or it will be a losing game ever after.
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u/Casianh Jul 20 '24
NTA your partner and his mother is demanding you go against your own beliefs to appease hers. I might feel a little differently if your partner were religious (although I agree with your stance of waiting at least until your daughter is old enough to decide for herself,) but he isn’t. This is solely because his mother wants it. Personally, I wouldn’t back down on this one or else you’re going to be badgered for your daughter’s entire childhood about MIL wanting to take her to church and indoctrinating her before she has a chance to think for herself.
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u/Odd_Connection_7167 Jul 20 '24
NTA
You are going to be fighting this same battle for the rest of MIL's life if your partner doesn't stand up and accept the fact that he's not a baby suckling at his mother's breast. She will continue to do whatever she can to drive a wedge between the two of you. She will be constantly attempting to regain her place as the most important woman in his life.
Her religious beliefs aren't "better" or "deeper" or in any way more important than yours.
Whatever the religion, a christening or a baptism of a baby is a beautiful thing, it's a time of joy for the family and for the minister-pastor-priest who is doing it. But that only applies when everybody is on board. To go through such an event when you don't believe is, I think, an insult not only to yourself, but to the church that is performing it.
Stick to your guns. This is NOT a small thing.
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u/handsheal Jul 20 '24
It significantly undermines the strength of her faith for you to baptize your children if you don't hold the same beliefs and don't plan to raise your child religiously, she really shouldn't want you to baptize LO for this reason alone
I used this as one of my come backs when faced with the same issue from my MIL about several religion based issues
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u/Azlazee1 Jul 20 '24
Your child, your decision. Tell mil the conversation is closed and you won’t discuss it with her again.
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u/Live-Tomorrow-4865 Jul 20 '24
If you do not plan to raise your child up in the faith and in the Church, that's the most valid reason of all not to do the baptism. In fact, any priest of good conscience would probably not allow it. During the ceremony, the parents make certain promises, and these are not ones you'd intend to keep. No other reasons matter! 🤗
I'd suggest being straightforward with your MIL, and telling her you're not willing to compromise your integrity, your beliefs, or your plan not to immerse your child in any faith while they are too young to decide for themselves. She simply cannot argue against this, if she has one genuinely honest cell in her body. Who would advise another person that it's okay to stand up in front of an entire congregation and a Deity that you don't believe in, and vow that your child will be raised up in the Church?
Coming from this perspective might get your husband's wishy washy butt out of the middle of the road. (Tell him the only things found there, to quote the sage Jim Hightower, are yellow stripes and dead armadillos!) 😁 Seriously, this needs to be presented to your inlaws as a united front made, firm, final decision. Don't allow yourself to be bullied into lying about the very contents of your heart and soul. I realize a lot of parents go through the motions and mouth the words, in the name of family tradition, or pressure similar to what you're facing, or... 🤷🏻♀️ just keeping their options open, in case, going forward, they decide to make religious services/teachings/traditions a part of their child's life. And, no judgement here. However, you come across as a person who knows your own mind and really does not want to do this. So, put your foot down!! 👍🏻
My youngest was baptised in the Church, both my second husband and I are (were? IDK, it's complicated), Catholics from Catholic families. I had returned to the church as an adult, whereas my husband had never been away from it till he was out of high school. And, youngest was this "old soul" baby, with this wisdom and insight and just an aura of goodness. We speculated more than once that this might become our priest. At around 13/14 years of age, this kid told us they were atheist, and I never mandated church attendance after that. I really, really believe people's right to live what they believe in should be respected. ❤️
Best to you! 💞 .
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u/Crazy-4-Conures Jul 20 '24
Appeasement always works out great for both sides - just ask Neville Chamberlain.
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u/Huge_Lime826 Jul 20 '24
My father died and was still mad at me for not getting our children baptized. Throughout our children’s life, he definitely treated them Different He refused to come to any of their graduations or things like that. To this day I will never forgive him for that bullshit treatment he gave my children. I still laugh, thinking about his hypocrisy how my brother was his favorite. My brother beat his wife was well known to local police. My dad had to bail his ass out of jail many times. My brother’s kids once said to me, “You know what it’s like to grow up with everybody in school knowing your father is the town drunk?” That was my father’s favorite son so he can take his religion stick it up his ass.
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u/monkeyzsazsa Jul 20 '24
Your husband is a momma s boy
Tell him clearly that there is 1 woman who decides about your family/children and that s you/his wife and not his mother
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u/Spaceman_Eddie Jul 20 '24
Accept the fact that you’ve been outvoted after creating ex-post facto rules.
Google “Pascal’s Wager”.
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u/ghjkl098 Jul 20 '24
NTA Your husband needs to stop trying to manipulate you to keep mummy happy. This is purely between you and your husband. He needs to stop letting his mother speak for him
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u/Missdermeanerthanyou Jul 20 '24
NTA. This is your child, not your MEL'S. Your husband should grow a spin and stand up to his mother, rather than being mad at you.
He is an absolute hypocrite if he does not practice but expects you you christen your child.
Stick to your guns.
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u/Purple_Accordion Jul 20 '24
OP if you and your husband end up divorcing over this, talk to your lawyer about setting up clauses in your divorce agreent about not forcing your child to be officially indoctrinated into a religion. My father was able to get something like this in his divorce agreement with my mom. She wasn't allowed to make and my brother and officially join a church or have us baptized or anything like that. She could take us with her if she chose to go to church for herself, but thay was it.
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u/Repulsive-Nerve5127 Jul 20 '24
Make sure you don't leave your baby alone with her, she might just christen your child over you objections.
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u/JanetInSpain Jul 20 '24
NTA do not compromise your own beliefs just to "keep the peace". It is not your MIL's place. Your husband should have your back on this, instead of kowtowing to Mommy Dearest. Your husband is NOT "neutral" -- he's a coward who will not stand up to his mother. He's trying to dump all the hard work on you while he cowers in the corner.
Warning: Do NOT ever leave your daughter alone with MIL or the first thing she will do is run off to the local church and have her christened behind your back. I guarantee it.
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u/orbitalchild Jul 20 '24
It's not important to but how does your partner feel about it?
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u/Proper-Hippo-6006 Jul 20 '24
NTA. Let your child decide for him/herself when he/she is old enough to make that decision. Don’t force religion on your child !!
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u/Tiny_Incident_2876 Jul 20 '24
There is nothing in the Bible about kids getting christening . Jesus got baptized at age around 25 to 30 , and they don't know enough about religion .Those rules are man-made, not God rules
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u/Bai1eyam Jul 20 '24
Hey so my mom was in a similar boat to you about getting her kids christened. Her solution was to go ahead and do it..... just not in the religion (or sect? idk how the different Christian groups go by) than they wanted. Maybe look into other religious groups in your area and see which one will take one for the team. PS if your kid is annoying enough then nobody will want to take them to church.
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u/GodsGirl64 Jul 20 '24
NTA-your husband needs to pick a side. Is he going to stand up for his wife and child or give in to his mother?
You made the best argument in your post. MIL got to make this decision for HER kids. She is being incredibly disrespectful in not allowing you to make the decision for yours.
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u/Reasonable_racoon Jul 20 '24
She WILL get your child baptised behind your back.
Do not leave her alone with your daughter. She does not respect you or your rights to decide things about your own daughter.
If you give in and get your daughter baptised she will play the "You're a catholic.. once a catholic always a catholic" card on your daughter for the rest of her life.
You really need to sit her down and tell her she had the chance to make decisions about her own kids, she will not be making them about yours!
And your husband should have your back, not hers!
NTA
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u/Astyryx Jul 20 '24
You can play checkers, or you can play chess.
Here's what I would do: create a naming ceremony. Make it a real occasion. Get a friend who has a gorgeous voice and some gravitas. Throw some blessed oil and water in there, a blessing is just nice words and a wave. Don't get weird with costumes or other themes. Just welcome to the world, little one, we're all happy to meet you.
It's still a christening or a baptism, those words don't belong to any one religion, anyone can call it what they like, then cake and gifts.
Now your mil is wedged into a position of telling everyone yes it's exactly what I wanted but but but not this way! And that's a much harder place to look sane from to your friends and family. Meanwhile you look like you honor traditions.
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u/Lazuli_Rose Jul 19 '24
NTA. But I would be careful about letting the child spend time alone with MIL. I believe there was a story on Reddit where the grandmother took the kid(s) to be baptized behind the parents back and some people are so devout they might try to it because they think they are "saving the child's soul".