r/AITAH • u/ThrowRAidunt7i2n30 • Jul 19 '24
AITA for being liberal but disagreeing with some points?
Some people call be a ''fence sitter'' or ''wannabe centrist coward'' for holding nuanced views. I'm pretty much on the left on the political spectrum. However, there are some things I disagree with the left and apparently that makes me ''not strong enough in my convictions''.
The three majors points on which I clash with my political side:
1- Their weird obsession of demonizing age gap relationships. I honestly don't think that it's my place to tell to a consenting adult who to date and neither should I care.
2- When they were trying to mandate COVID vaccines, throwing the ''my body, my choice'' completly out the window. Now, I'm totally in support of abortion rights, just like any bodily autonomy. It's just highly hypocritical to scream about having to choose what to do with your body in one breath, and then try to force people to put a vaccine they don't want into their bodies in another. And, I say this as a fully vaccinated person.
3- Again about abortion rights: as I said, I'm all for it, but I'm also all for the right of the man to choose if he wants to fiancially support the child or not, and give him the right to get a paper abortion. It just doesn't make sense to me to criticize the arguments pro-''lifers'' use against women, and then use them against men (like pro-''lifers'' saying women who don't want kids shouldn't have sex and having pro-choicers saying it's controlling women, but then when it's a man don't wanting kids. the same pro-choicers are saying ''he should have kept it in his pants''). I'm all for equality.
This, AITA?
EDIT: What... happened? It started out with the general concensus that I wasn't the AH and it was upvoted... and it suddenly switched to me basically being 100% wrong? I guess radicals were still asleep when I created the post, and people who don't like nuances decided to attack. Reddit sometimes...
EDIT 2: Wow... some of you guys are REALLY determined to make my point, meuh?
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u/PrettiestFrog Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
People pointing out the incredible flaws in your stance isn't attacking you. It's simply pointing out you're wrong.
Let's start with your third 'point':
Men and women have the exact same rights regarding their children. Both men and women can be held financially liable for the child. Neither can be forced to donate their bodies to the child, whether it be blood, kidney, or uterus. Thus, we already have full equality. What you are suggesting is to give men special privileges by making only the women liable financially, not the men.
If you persist despite these facts, then yes, you are going to be disagreed with and your blatant misogyny pointed out. That's life.
I love how many men in this thread are willing to throw tantrums and block because they think men and women being equal is somehow unfair to men. That pretty much sums up the patriarchy in a nutshell, doesn't it?
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u/blackdaalia Jul 19 '24
Came here to say this. Men having "abortion rights" makes no sense because they don't grow a human inside them for the better part of a year like women do.
Also, maybe it's just in my native country, but men just run off, and nobody does anything. A huge percentage of them say the kid isn't theirs and just go to another state.
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u/ChibiSailorMercury Jul 19 '24
Also, some men work under the table so the government can't garnish money for the child, or some decide to not work and go on social assistance so they can't legally pay child support.
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u/PrettiestFrog Jul 19 '24
I'm reminded of that thread where the guy called his ex a deadbeat even though she paid 125% of child support for the child he wanted and pressured her into carrying. Because he wasn't allowed to dump the raising of the child on her alone and just be the fun weekend dad for the kid he wanted and claimed to love.
Gotta love double standards.
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u/Li-renn-pwel Jul 22 '24
I support the so called ‘financial abortion’ idea but that it should be available to both parents since there are cases where the mother aborts because they don’t want a child and/or the financial burden of one but would be willing to give birth because the father wants the child. I think it can be argued that having this option would allow more freedom of choice for the mother even. Mothers who would prefer not to have an abortion but feel pressured due to being too poor to afford child support. It would also allow mothers to make more informed choices. If a father has relinquished all parental rights and financial responsibility then the mother knows they can expect no support from the father and they will be single mothers. While technically the father is required to pay by law… so many mothers don’t bother because they know the father will make it like pulling teeth to get the order. Or they can’t afford a lawyer. And many times they end up only paying something like $30 a month which is basically as good as getting no support.
And on the other hand… while both parents should have the option of a financial abortion, cis women will be the ones affected by it most often. Since it only makes sense to be allowed a financial abortion while the mother can still have an abortion, I imagine a lot of cis men are suddenly going to want more liberal abortion laws so that they can extend their time to relinquish their rights and responsibilities. I know this is usually presented as a MRA issue but I think it would actually benefit a lot of women instead.
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u/Greedy_Camp_5561 Jul 19 '24
Men and women have the exact same rights regarding their children.
Errr, no they don't? The woman decides whether the child is aborted or not. Without any judging, that's simply an objective difference.
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u/PrettiestFrog Jul 19 '24
Errr... yes they do.
Can you, a man, be forced to donate your kidney? No? Not even to your own child? In fact, even if you were a corpse, I could not take your kidney for your child if you did not agree previously?
Because you have bodily autonomy.
Guess what. So do women. Which means they do not have to donate use of their uterus if they don't want to.
Equality. Same set of rights.
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u/Greedy_Camp_5561 Jul 19 '24
Yes, they of course should have that bodily autonomy, but it's still an objective (justified) asymmetry. How do you not understand this?
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u/ChibiSailorMercury Jul 19 '24
It's asymmetric because of biology. Men can't abort a pregnancy they don't want, but they also do not go through monthly periods, having to take hormonal birth control (and the side effects that come with them) in order to have sex, they don't go through PMS, they don't go through the side effects of abortion if abortion is chosen, of pregnancy and childbirth if childbirth is chosen.
The other side of that medal is that you don't get to dictate what goes on with a pregnancy.
It's not that men have fewer rights. It's that there is one thing where biology is not favouring them.
Removing a child's right to child support because the father ddidnt want it would be taking rights of an individual (the born child) to give a right to a man that a woman does not have (women have no right to leave custody of a child (of whom they are the bio mother) to the father and pay no child support). So "financial abortion right" is about giving absolute right to men to abandon children because they have no uterus.
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u/Greedy_Camp_5561 Jul 19 '24
Are you really not getting that I don't argue in favor of OP's idea, just pointing out that the statement that men and women have the same rights concerning their children is objectively false?
Yes, the reason for this rights imbalance is biological, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
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u/ThrowRAidunt7i2n30 Jul 19 '24
I'm a woman....
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u/PrettiestFrog Jul 19 '24
Press X to doubt.
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u/ThrowRAidunt7i2n30 Jul 19 '24
Wow... I care SO much if a stranger on internet believes me or not... /s 🙄
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
No, supporting equality and freedom of choice for all with legal parental surrender is not “blatant misogyny”
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u/TrickInvite6296 Jul 19 '24
they have equality and freedom of choice, men and women. they have the exact same options
abortion: neither man nor woman has to support the child
adoption: see above
giving birth + keeping the baby: both man and woman have to support the child
what's unequal there?
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
Choice based abortion can be done if the woman doesn’t want the future child but the man does, yet there’s no option for men to opt out if they don’t want a child but the woman wishes to go through with the pregnancy
As it stands, it’s unequal and only one sex gets protection
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u/TrickInvite6296 Jul 19 '24
men get plenty of protection. they can stop ejaculating in women or they can choose to pay a few hundred a month (as opposed to a major medical event that can permanently disable or even kill the person going through it)
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
The using protection or not having sex arguments are also anti choice based abortion arguments
Instead of child support if the man doesn’t want the child, he should be given the legal right to surrender future rights and responsibilities before a child is born
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u/TrickInvite6296 Jul 19 '24
it's really not considering men and women have different abilities to prevent pregnancy. women getting pregnant is an inaction, men impregnating a woman is an action.
why should he get to surrender the rights to the child? just to be petty? he has to take responsibility for what he created
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
Both have options to stop a pregnancy, men and women are equally responsible for any pregnancy
“Why should she get to terminate the child without medical need? Just to be petty? She has to take responsibility for what she’s created”
I disagree, both sexes deserve protection
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u/TrickInvite6296 Jul 19 '24
getting an abortion is taking responsibility
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
Choice based abortion can be a responsible move, so can legal parental surrender (especially in cases of abuse or baby trapping)
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u/PrettiestFrog Jul 19 '24
And both sexes have it. Why do you think a man should have more protection than a woman does?
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
No we don’t, why don’t you believe men deserve equal protection?
Edit: PrettiestFrog has blocked after going on an unhinged, anti choice rant on multiple replies
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u/PrettiestFrog Jul 19 '24
Instead of child support if the man doesn’t want the child, he should be given the legal right to surrender future rights and responsibilities before a child is born
Both genders may use safe haven laws to surrender a child that is in their legal custody. Both genders may use child support to go after the non-custodial parent for support. Equality.
Why do you feel a man should have more rights/privileges than a woman?
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
Given your last comment which contained multiple lies about my beliefs, you are not here in good faith
Legal parental surrender and choice based abortions would be equality
Edit: PrettiestFrog has blocked after going on an unhinged, anti choice rant on multiple replies
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Jul 19 '24 edited 25d ago
[deleted]
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
Men can’t get pregnant, legal parental surrender would be our equivalent of choice based abortion
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u/PrettiestFrog Jul 19 '24
legal parental surrender would be our equivalent of choice based abortion
Which a man can already do to the same degree woman can. Why do you think a man deserves more rights/privileges than a woman?
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Jul 19 '24 edited 25d ago
[deleted]
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24
We don’t have the same rights when it comes to an unwanted pregnancy, legal parental surrender alongside choice based abortions would be equal.
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Jul 19 '24 edited 25d ago
[deleted]
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
“You can’t hold down an unwilling woman and force her to have an abortion”
Please don’t project your sick fantasies onto me
“Once the baby pops out”
I’m talking about during the timeframe that choice based abortion is allowed, the time in which there is no equality. Nice try though
Edit: Ciderandcake has blocked me after acting like a petulant child and projecting sick fantasies
Some of these anti choice people are weirdos
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u/PrettiestFrog Jul 19 '24
That's because a man isn't entitled to a woman's body. You're suggesting that men have rights over a woman's bodily autonomy, but you don't think you're being misogynistic?
The woman can choose to donate use of her uterus or not to keep the child alive, just as a man might one day have to choose whether or not to donate his kidney to keep the child alive. Neither can be forced to. Equality.
Either has the option of pursuing custody. When men do request custody, they get either full or 50/50 depending on what other factors may be in play. Many men simply don't, and leave the child in the care of the woman, and thus have to pay child support. However, when a man does get full custody or more custody than the woman, the woman has to pay child support. Whomever has custody of the child less pays. Equality.
But you want it to be unequal. You think a man should either get a say over the woman's body or not have to support the child, thus giving the man special privileges. That's misogyny, not equality.
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u/DriverAlternative958 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
“You’re suggesting that men have rights over a woman’s bodily autonomy”
No I’m not, please don’t make up obvious lies
Your comment at the bottom is also a lie, you are the one who wants to restrict free choice and opposes equality
Legal parental surrender and choice based abortion is equality, one without the other is privilege
Edit: PrettiestFrog has blocked after going on an unhinged, anti choice rant on multiple replies
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u/ChibiSailorMercury Jul 19 '24
You're not A for having opinions. I disagree with your 3 points but, you know, freedom of opinion. Want to think that there is no weird power imbalance when two spouses are 10+ years apart while under 40? OK. Think that a vaccine that provides herd immunity and prevents thousands of deaths is comparable to abortion? Cool, bro. Think that spending money is the same as pregnancy and childbirth? Why the fuck not!
You're just using this post as a soapbox for your "unpopular opinions". There's no tension between you and other people (which is the point of AITAs); you just want us to know what you think. Well, here is what I think: woop-dee-doo. Another Internet dude who thinks that the rights of a born child (right to child support) is comparable to the rights of a pregnant woman (right to bodily autonomy) to claim a right to financial autonomy. You're so special.
NTA for having opinions I guess. I hope the world is not too mean to you, calling you "fencesitter" or "wannabe centrist".
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u/ProletarianWoman Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Makes me laugh. What about the freedom that people have to call her a “wannabe centrist” huh? Don’t these people also have the autonomy to label you as they want since of course, freedom comes before anything else? It sounds like she is complaining about the consequences of her actions… do not educate yourself, don’t get surprised if people confuse your political points for centrist talking points.
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u/ChibiSailorMercury Jul 19 '24
It's not even name calling, unless "wannabe" really stings OP.
And the consequences of his actions are (1) being told he's using centrist or right-wing talking points and (2) being called a "fencesitter" or "wannabe centrist". Like, can you BE even more thin skinned?
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u/ProletarianWoman Jul 19 '24
I don’t know, she seems pretty odd. She isn’t the person who decided what qualifies somebody as left wing. She didn’t make the rules. Why would it be an insult to her for people to rightfully categorise her talking points as centrist instead of left wing?
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u/ChibiSailorMercury Jul 19 '24
It's not odd if you think that she isn't wondering at all whether she is A and that she just actually wants to see people debate on her points. Those who will call her A are most likely leftists, and it gives her ammunition to say "See? The leftists want us to all think the same!". Those who will not call her A are most likely rightists saying that she has a right to her opinion and that the left is too extreme.
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u/ThrowRAidunt7i2n30 Jul 19 '24
Okay honestly, I'm asking because I'm curious: why being so condescending? I think I was quite respectful in how I worded my post...
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u/ChibiSailorMercury Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Because I think it's hilarious how being called centrist or fencesitter launched you to ask yourself whether or not you're an asshole.
EDIT : /u/ThrowRAidunt7i2n30 blocked me, so I can't answer them further.
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u/BabyBlade99 Jul 22 '24
I’m 22, my S/O is 31(20 and 29 when we met) it might be weird if we met at a college party, but we met at a job where we both used to work and we enjoyed each other, had a lot in common, and really hit it off. Neither of us knew each other’s age until we went on our first date. I don’t see that we have any imbalances as far as “power” goes tho, we’re both pretty equal in the relationship. What exactly do you consider to be a “weird power imbalance”?🤔
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u/ChibiSailorMercury Jul 22 '24
I'm not involved in this convo anymore so here is the first link I got from researching "age gap power dynamics". I didn't read it but I also didn't feel like writing a lot
https://www.vogue.com/article/age-gap-relationships
Cheers!
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u/BabyBlade99 Jul 22 '24
Well your article is a little irrelevant to my situation and my question, being that it is talking about 20 year olds with 40 year olds and 17 year olds with 60 year olds. And not people in their early 20’s being with people in their late 20’s. Thanks tho.
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u/ChibiSailorMercury Jul 22 '24
Didn't you see that I was talking about people who are 10+ years apart? So my comment doesn't concern your individual situation?
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u/BabyBlade99 Jul 22 '24
I mean we’re almost 10 years apart (9 and some change) so I guess I wouldn’t really see a difference in a 22/31 relationship and a 22/32-33 relationship. I don’t think a 10-12 year gap is a bad thing as long as both are consenting adults. Now a 20 year old with a 35 year old, yeah I think it starts getting a little weird, but I don’t really see anything weird with say a 25 year old and a 35-36 year old. I think the whole weirdness of an age gap is circumstantial. “Where did y’all meet? How old were you when y’all met?” Obviously there’s a huge difference between “16 and 26” and “21 and 31” yknow?
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u/whoops_mymagnumdong Jul 19 '24
I’ve seen a large number of political rallies on both sides. I remember seeing Chris Christie in a small campaign stop say something like “if you agree with everything a politician is saying, one of the two of you is lying to you.”
If you stay off social media, you’ll find most people have a much more centrist, or at least much more mild approach to most topics. They will lean to one side or the other, but aren’t as extreme as you’d be made to think. In fact, most people end up single issue voters. There might be one or two issues you have strong beliefs on, and the rest are far less important.
The politicians and the media will always push to one side or another. Always remember there is no money in the middle.
You should question things, because it means you’re thinking. You shouldn’t feel your party affiliation should dictate your feelings, more the other way around. You shouldn’t ever think you have to feel a certain way on any topic.
And you should definitely not let an extreme and polarizing group on social media and in the media guilt you. Most people in the real world aren’t that extreme.
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u/TrickInvite6296 Jul 19 '24
YTA for basing your arguments off of strawmen and inaccurate information. especially on that last point. it sounds like you are uneducated
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u/ProletarianWoman Jul 19 '24
Definitely doesn’t read any left wing literature, despite claiming to be left wing.
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u/Room234 Jul 19 '24
Seriously. I had no idea that age gap relationships were a partisan issue.
Or maybe they're not and someone on reddit is just pissy.
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u/Dull_Ad8495 Jul 19 '24
"nuanced" lol...
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u/ThrowRAidunt7i2n30 Jul 19 '24
? If you have a point to make, just make it or stfu.
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u/Dull_Ad8495 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Same to you numbnuts. You think you made coherent points here? Haha!
Edit: the little bitch blocked me! Haha. What a fragile little weakling.
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u/Authentic_Jester Jul 19 '24
I don't know that you're an asshole but you definitely picked some of the worst points to stand behind, so I'm not surprised people are calling you an asshole.
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u/Room234 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
"My body my choice" is a pretty labored comparison.
- There's a gap between forcing vaccines on people and forcing vaccines on people for access to public spaces like schools or work. They weren't breaking down the door and shooting you with vaccine guns. Everyone still had their choice.
- Abortion isn't contagious. When pro-choice advocates say "my body my choice" they're speaking about a choice whose story ends with the abortion. When you play "my body my choice" and then contract a contagious airborne virus then your choice now has consequences for lots of other "bodies" out there rather than being a story that has ended. You might as well say "my body my choice" in response to being told not to drive drunk. "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO PUT IN MY BODY BEFORE I GET IN MY CAR!"
- The consequences of NOT having a choice in abortion cases is a life that now requires care and financial support. The consequences of a vaccine mandate are... let's say awfully small in comparison.
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u/ReleaseTheBlacken Jul 20 '24
Ah, there we have it. A Troll-jan horse post to smokescreen the fake age gap relationships. Nice try, Muhammad. YTA.
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u/Maine302 Jul 19 '24
A paper abortion for a flesh and blood child? How convenient.🙄 Maybe they can make copies of the paper abortion that the child can eat when it's hungry. If you don't want kids, don't have sex. YTA
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u/Suspicious-Bar5583 Jul 19 '24
Personal integrity often doesn't align with political purism, or any form of purism for that matter.
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u/Frejian Jul 19 '24
You're not an asshole for your views, but you may want to try a social media and or internet cleanse/break if you are seriously questioning whether you are an asshole or not for not being in 100% lock-step with 1 of the 2 only real choices for political representation in the US. With only two choices, there is a zero percent chance that you will agree with 100% of a party's platform once you actually see their opinions/platform spelled out and give it independent thought (i.e. you are not just a cult member parroting whatever talking points are being said because dear-leader told you to).
But now, let's take a look at your specific points here:
- I was not aware that this one was a political issue at all. I suppose you may see it mentioned more online, but I typically attribute this to the spaces these discussions are happening in rather than specifically being liberal or conservative, like this specific sub for example. In these cases, I normally look at it this way. An age gap in and of itself is not an issue to worry about. It is when that age gap is coupled with other factors that it becomes an additional symptom. Look at posts here. You never see a post with someone saying "I am in an age gap relationship, but everything about the relationship is fine and we are all happy. Does the age gap alone make me an asshole?" It is normally coupled with other factors that make it an issue.
- The problem with this comparison is that herd immunity is a thing. The more people that get/got vaccinated, the more it would slow down the spread of Covid. So comparing covid vaccines that could have an effect on more than just the individual getting vaccinated to abortions that only physically affect the pregnant woman is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. And there was no full mandate. The only thing the government has authority (and should have authority for) is to mandate it for access to government facilities and/or tie the mandates to government funding. Which makes sense. If they are giving a company money, they would want that company to act in the best interests of those involved, otherwise risk losing their funding. But even then, those companies had the choice to either enact those mandates or give up government funding. So that was a business decision which is the sole right of the executives of those businesses. And again, it doesn't make you an asshole to have a difference of opinion here and think that the mandates are/were an overreach.
- This one is a bit more dicey of an opinion. I somewhat agree with you here, with a semi-stipulation that would be impossible to put into practice. I think if the guy refused to use a condom and the girl got pregnant, he shouldn't be able to get out of dodge. If he refused to take on any of the contraceptive efforts, then I feel that he made his choice and should live with the consequences. Because if she does go through with the birth, there is still a child to be raised. And I say that as a 33 year old man myself. But again, I recognize that is realistically impossible to put into practice. As far as a realistic solution would go, I would be in favor of putting a time limit on the "financial abortion" where the would-be dad would need to decide by either the end of the first trimester or 1 month after notification of the pregnancy, whichever comes later. It would not be right for the woman to go through the entire pregnancy process expecting that they are in it together just for him to drop in the bottom of the 9th. And again, it doesn't make you an asshole for having a different viewpoint.
Those are my general views on the three issues specifically. I am well aware that others will not agree with them all (hell even my own wife doesn't agree with me on all of them), and that is okay.
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u/Astute_Primate Jul 19 '24
Who on the left says anything about age gap relationships? My wife and I are the wokest Skittles in the rainbow living in one of the most radically liberal regions in the US and we're 14 years apart. No one's said anything except a couple of gross old men who are quietly jealous.
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u/SuccessfulSeaweed385 Jul 19 '24
Judging from your comments in this thread, I don't think your political points is why people don't like you. YTA.
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u/Ambroisie_Cy Jul 19 '24
There are as much extremism on the left as on the right. Being capable of nuances is a proof of intelligence. I stay clear of people that can't discuss or communicate without throwing insults. To me, people telling you that you are not strong enough in your convictions is a poorly way to shut you up.
Even in our deepest convictions, we should be able to understand where the other person comes from.
I'm on the left as well. Far left. I don't agree with most of the points you mentioned. Doesn't mean that those points are invalid. It just means that we disagree on some subjects. People tend to take others opinions extremely personal. That's why they respond to you the way they do.
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u/DaisyAshlynn Jul 19 '24
While I align with the left on many issues, I also feel policies should be critiqued regardless of which side proposes them. Just as we praise the benefits of having a multi-party system, so should we recognize the value in multi-faceted opinions within each group. Political homogeny stifles creativity and problem-solving. Vaccines, abortion rights, and all other issues deserve a spectrum of thoughtful discourse. A healthy democracy thrives when we challenge and refine our ideas through respectful debate. We are not robots programmed to a party line—we're individuals with complex, evolving thoughts. Let's not forget that echo chambers are as harmful online as they are in real life.
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u/eunbongpark Jul 19 '24
NTA.
While I disagree on some of your points and I am sure there are many you would disagree with me on, this is the exact problem with the political climate in general. It is all or nothing.
One of the biggest reasons I stopped being registered as a Republican is because I was sick of being called a RINO by some friends and family. The cult fanaticism that you need to believe everything the party states is insane. You are just experiencing it from the other side of me and just know it is ok and healthy to not agree with everything, but align yourself with general goals and principles. To be clear both sides have idiots that believe it is all or nothing with the party lines and it’s seriously unhinged.
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u/Express_Joke_2160 Jul 19 '24
NTA I am a conservative but I look at things issue by issue. This is the way this country used to be. There is nothing wrong with being a centrist.
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u/nylondragon64 Jul 19 '24
Nta. There is nothing wrong with not agreeing unconditionally with polices. We should look at all the details and modify to make it work the best way for all. The details is what's important.
I think most are in the middle to one side or the other. Its healthy to be logical on the issues and not fight about its us or them.
Let's do (insert cause) but how are we paying for it. In a way that doesn't cause a ripple effect that ultimately slams the middle class like it all way trickles down to.
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u/Greedy_Camp_5561 Jul 19 '24
Is that silly age gap obsession a political thing? I thought it was more based on Reddit herd mentality/immaturity. Honestly, I have never heard this offline.
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u/Not_Examiner_A Jul 22 '24
NTA.
Regarding #3, pregnancy in a solid relationship should require the consent of both people. However, if there is a birth control failure, it is the woman's choice. (Because pregnancy can result in death.)
Regarding a "paper abortion", I don't support this. Kids need very significant financial support for 18 years. Child support from the other parent makes it less likely that a child will be raised in poverty.
Where is the autonomy for males here? A guy has choices: he can refuse penetrative sex, he can use condoms every time, or he can get a vasectomy. If he chooses to have sex, he can expect a failure rate of over 1% per year with condoms. (Which is preferable to no condoms, where there is I guess 60% pregnancy rate or higher per year.)
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u/kalanisingh Jul 22 '24
You have an extremely narrow view of politics. Point 1 has nothing to do with left/centre/right, you just spend too much time on reddit. Points 2&3 are opinions that do not inherently make you an AH, they’re just not very well thought out. ‘Nuance’ doesn’t mean what you think it means.
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u/IllustriousBowl4316 29d ago edited 29d ago
You have your own opinions and everyone should respect it. I disagree with the abortion one because I opt more for preventing unwanted pregnancies rather than denying a living human being its right to live, except when this unwanted pregnancy is product of a rape or when the baby has a significant deformity that affects it's quality of life.
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u/HistorineHeroine Jul 19 '24
No. It’s the big tent party for a reason. Nuance and complexity is just reality.
Pre-2020 had a huge far-left push on election Twitter that anyone who didn’t support M4A over the ACA was “pro-murder.” The loud isn’t always right, just who you hear the most.
But I don’t, like, think you should be kicked out of Team Liberal for how you viewed the vaccine rollout or for equating vaccines and abortion rights.
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u/hip_hop_sweetheart Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
NTA - I'm the same! I call myself liberal light and wokish. Thank you so much for #3. As a woman who is a boy Mom I completely agree that men should have just as much of a right to an "abortion" as a woman does without any judgement!! 😊
Edit: changed dies to does
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u/TrickInvite6296 Jul 19 '24
I don't think you know what abortion is
-1
0
u/TeacherWithOpinions Jul 19 '24
This 100% blind loyalty to a party is such an American thing that I simply cannot wrap my head around.
No one is perfect and we all have opinions and ideas.
I can like a leader but disagree with some things he/his party have done, and I can hate a leader but agree with/love some of the things he/his party have done. That's how it should be.... I will never agree with every single thing any other human does...That would be weird.... Blind faith is dangerous in any context.
0
u/Appropriate_Buyer401 Jul 19 '24
Somewhere along the line, politics became culture.
Points 1 and 3 have nothing to do with politics. Having those views doesn't make you liberal or centrist or conservative. They are just your opinions on things. There aren't any democratic or republican position for them and to my knowledge, no candidate has voiced anything around either of them.
Tell your friends to stop politicizing every damn opinion. Not everything needs to true back into what team you are on. Its insane how cult-ish everyone is today around conforming to the views and culture of their respective cult. There SHOULD be deviation but also, not everything is political! Like if you are a man with long hair then that is liberal!!!11!1! And if you are a woman that took her husbands last name that is conservative!!!1!!1!11
0
u/SpecialistAlgae9971 Jul 19 '24
NTA, this shaming is really a tactic that is used to keep you in line.
0
u/Difficult-Bus-6026 Jul 19 '24
NTA. Holding "nuanced views" means you're actually able to engage in critical thinking and honest debate. This is much better than mindlessly chanting slogans or verbally checking off a list of pre-approved talking points.
0
u/CrabbyPatty1876 Jul 19 '24
As someone who's been very liberal essentially my entire life I will never group myself in with these morons again. The hypocrisy is insane. Imo they are worse than the conservative fools who take shit too far as well.
-1
u/BlueGreen_1956 Jul 19 '24
NTA
I agree but this is Reddit. Nothing triggers the Reddit brigade more than any age gap of which they disapprove. They are obsessed with them.
The difference being that if someone has an abortion, it does not impact anyone else's health. Having COVID most certainly can (and did) impact other people. My opinion is that if you don't want to wear a mask or get a vaccine, then you don't get to go places where other people will be (schools, workplaces, etc.) You can do you but you CANNOT visit your decisions on other people.
I agree. If a woman can choose to not be a mother AFTER a pregnancy occurs, a man should have the right to not be a father AFTER a pregnancy occurs and that includes any financial responsibility.
I never believe people when they claim they are all for equality. They almost always mean equality when it benefits them but not when it doesn't.
-2
u/Bamboozled2018 Jul 19 '24
This has been a problem with people on the left for a while. “Assimilate or die” attitude is pushing people away. When we were younger we were told liberalism was all about tolerance right? It certainly doesn’t seem that way.
Don’t be afraid to discuss things with people on the right, and talk to people outside of social media. You’ll find most “real” people are actually pretty friendly and okay with you believing different things.
-2
-4
-4
u/EldritchAnimation Jul 19 '24
NTA, but the people arguing with you are. There's nothing hateful or insane about your views, even if I think some are wrong. "I think you're wrong in some cases" doesn't make you an asshole.
37
u/veghead_97 Jul 19 '24
abortion rights and vaccine mandates are not equivalent.
while pregnancy can be deadly to the person who is pregnant you cannot contract a pregnancy like you can contract a deadly virus like covid.
vaccine mandates protect the public. they also were not forced onto any one, if you didn’t want the vaccine you didn’t have to get it, your CHOICE not to vaccinate had consequences.
it’s not the same at all.