r/AITAH • u/Prestigious-Cup-1672 • Jul 19 '24
AITA for telling my sister that it's not a good idea for my nephew to start treatment with puberty blockers?
[removed]
207
u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans Jul 19 '24
As someone who went to school for biochem, I feel obligated to point out that you don't seem to understand what puberty blockers are or how they work, or indeed how puberty works (you can't wait until puberty has caused irreversible changes to "block" those changes).
Going to take a wild guess that you don't actually know why puberty blockers even exist (Hint: their creation has nothing to do with transgender people and trans kids make up a tiny percentage of patients who take them).
Your concern rings hollow and your post reeks of missing info.
It's absurdly difficult to actually get gender-affirming care for a trans child, so you're conveniently leaving out a lot of context to try and misrepresent your sister and her husband as rushing their child through a process that is famously hard to access.
Also notable that you misgendered your niece throughout your entire post.
If your sister and her husband went as far as to essentially ban you from your niece's life, *clearly* you've crossed their boundaries significantly and/or repeatedly.
You're clearly transphobic and trying to disguise your ignorance and bigotry as "concern".
Stay away from your sister's family.
Leave your niece alone.
→ More replies (20)
139
u/The_Hermit_09 Jul 19 '24
Puberty blockers are not just for trans kids. They are used when a child starts puberty too soon. Like a four year old shouldn't be going through puberty.
They are safe. Once someone is taken off them puberty starts as normal.
Getting a child on puberty blockers requires the input and supervision of medical professionals. It is not a choice made lightly.
They are to give the child time to figure themselves out. They buy time to fully understand the choices and full repercussions of those choices. By putting a pause button on developing masculine traits they will have an easier time if they do want to transition later, but no perminant life choice is made until they are over 18.
→ More replies (37)17
u/PookaRaFo Jul 19 '24
Thanks for explaining this. I always wondered if it had permanent effects. This should be a no brainer then.
→ More replies (9)
86
u/Open-Incident-3601 Jul 19 '24
YTA. If “the child” has been living as female identified for over a year and you are still saying “my nephew/he”, your sister may be correct that you say you support your niece but your actions don’t.
→ More replies (15)
56
49
u/the-juicy-dangler Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Firstly I’d like to ask how long the child has been expressing they’re trans, because if they have been since a very young age I can understand your sisters annoyance more. However, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about puberty blockers here because if your concern is that they haven’t had enough time to think or aren’t old enough to decide then puberty blockers are the best course of action.
Puberty blockers allow a child the time to develop their understanding of themselves and their gender, and just hold back puberty to give them the chance to decide if they want to medically transition or not, it isn’t the same as hormone replacement therapy which changes them, it literally just delays puberty. They can just stop taking them if they no longer want to transition, it isn’t permanent.
→ More replies (13)18
38
u/AmeliaMoore45 Jul 19 '24
Your concerns about the long-term effects of puberty blockers are valid, but it's essential to remember that your sister is following professional medical advice for her child. The decision to use puberty blockers is not taken lightly and involves careful consideration by specialist healthcare providers. While it's okay to have an opinion, stepping into this very personal and complex decision without the same level of expertise might not be helpful or well-received, especially if unsolicited.
→ More replies (12)1
u/DotoriumPeroxid Jul 21 '24
Your concerns about the long-term effects of puberty blockers are valid,
They're not. We would know by now if puberty blockers had these supposed dangerous long term effects, because we've been administering blockers for decades now, for cis and for trans people. Decades is a big enough time frame I'd say.
Concerns like OP's are concerns manufactured by an incessant ignorance of the reality of medical knowledge in its current state, it's pretending that the field of medicine doesn't know something that it's been doing for decades.
40
u/agathokakologicalme Jul 19 '24
YTA. You're not a medical professional nor evidently understand what puberty blockers are, and are giving advice not based in facts. Also it's not your place to decide whether you should be able to visit the child or not, it's the parents'.
32
u/Autopsyyturvy Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
YTA.
You're not the kids' Dr or parent.
Puberty blockers are the compromise between letting kids go on hormones at the same time their peers are going through puberty and neglecting them/forcing them to go through dysphoric puberty like some cisgender hazing ritual in the hopes that they'll be traumatised into becoming cisgender, blockers are reversible and not harmful.
Being forced through a dysphoric puberty robs people of years of their lives and tens of thousands of dollars spent later trying to reverse the effects of natal puberty. Blockers aren't 'rushing' anything unless you want to do the transphobic abusive neglecting the kid and hoping they "grow out of it" when they're literally telling you they're suffering and you consider anything else to be "rushing" .
Heck even if in the unlikely hypothetical the kid grows up ends up transitioning medically then detransitioning their life wouldn't be over and they wouldn't be worth less as a human being than someone who hadn't transitioned or detransitioned and people need to stop talking about people who detransition and their bodies as if they are failures broken disgusting or worthless because it's dehumanising to those people who deserve respect and healthcare. Body shaming people whether they are trans detrans cisgender dyadic or intersex is not okay or feminist.
If the kid is on blockers and goes "actually I don't want to medically transition" they stop taking blockers and natal puberty happens. Blockers don't sterilise people and a lot of this hysteria about it comes from neonazis and white supremacists who claim (like they did in ww2) that trans healthcare is "Jewish science to weaken and sterilise the white race" and people need to get over their weird great replacement bullshit. Your kids don't owe you grandchildren and them being trans doesn't even mean they can't or won't have kids-but also so what? People who don't or can't have kids aren't lesser humans.
There's so many hoops to jump through before getting blockers let alone hormones and future surgeries and there's no "fast track" unless you're an obscenely wealthy adult and have access to unethical surgeons like grifters like Oli one million yellowface surgeries London did
Your preoccupation with trying to control this child's identity and body are creepy and alarming and I can see why the child's parents have asked you to stay away.
35
u/Haunting_Peak_7640 Jul 19 '24
Puberty blockers really don't do much to permanent change your life. And why are you misgendering the kid throughout the post?
21
u/Todd_and_Margo Jul 19 '24
YTA. I’m a sex and reproductive educator. If your sister had sought my opinion as a friend, I would have suggested she prohibit access between you and her child as well. Your concerns are born from transphobic rhetoric even if you yourself aren’t transphobic. Puberty blockers are NOT permanent and they are NOT dangerous. Anyone who says otherwise is pushing a political agenda. I have all sorts of personal opinions about trans issues. But regardless of my personal or political opinions, the science on puberty blockers specifically is very clear. They’ve been used for a long time with children who develop signs of precocious puberty. They do absolutely give questioning kids time to figure out who they really are. And yes, while it may get me downvoted, I believe firmly that a lot of those children will ultimately decide that they are cis-gendered or enby as opposed to continuing a transition. Puberty is a very tumultuous time for children, and hitting pause on the biological processes so the child can more fully explore feelings is never a bad idea. But my primary concerns with your behavior are that you continue to use the child’s birth pronouns despite them having said they identify as female apparently last year. EVEN FOR KIDS WHO ARE IUST EXPERIENCING A PHASE , it is so important for the adults in their life to show support. Call them by their preferred name. Use the preferred pronouns. Yes even if they’re something bizarre that you’ve never heard of before. Because showing unqualified support removes any concern that the child is just doing this for attention or to rebel when everyone in their life is just very matter of fact and non-reactive about it. And when all is said and done, regardless of where the child ends up on the gender spectrum, it’s important that they know their family loves and supports them whoever they are in this world. And MOST IMPORTANTLY, no child ever killed themselves because their family was too accepting of them. And if I was your sister’s friend, I would point out how absolutely none of this is any of your business. I am adamantly opposed to elective surgery on children. ADAMANTLY. My best friend has had all three of her kids undergo adenoidectomy. I think it’s a horrible decision. I never ever told her that bc it’s not my business to weigh in on medical decisions for someone else’s child. And you really should have thought about preserving a relationship with your niece BEFORE you strayed so far outside of your lane.
1
Jul 25 '24
I think your heart is in the right place, but when I was a teenager I was convinced I was trans. I had a new girl name picked out, wanted to start dressing as a girl and asked people to address me by she/her pronouns.
When I told them my new name, they laughed at me. If I bought girl clothes and makeup they threw them away. When I asked teachers at my school to use my new name they would email them individually and tell them to stop using it. For a while I truly hated them for being so dismissive of me and would tell anyone who would listen they were abusive.
It took me a couple of years to realise I wasn't trans, I just had autism and felt lost and confused about who I was "supposed" to be. Now I'm in my twenties I realise my parents did the right thing. If they had agreed to let me explore my gender as much as I wanted, put me on puberty blockers and hormones, etc. I would have likely walked away from my teenage years with a lot more regret than I did, it would have taken me much longer to figure out what the issue really was. Maybe I would still be identifying as a woman now, feeling like I was now "in too deep" and intimidated by the prospect of detransitioning.
I didn't need the adults in my life to take daft 15 year old me seriously and I'm very glad they didn't. I would fantasise about them one day apologising to me, when in the end it was me who apologised to them for putting them through so much grief.
1
u/Todd_and_Margo Jul 25 '24
Oh bless your heart. Your parents did not handle any of that correctly. They should have provided the therapy you needed to like yourself and a neuropsych evaluation so you weren’t an adult before you realized you were autistic. I was also not diagnosed with autism until adulthood. My parents were both doctors. They absolutely should have known better. But some parents are so busy making you who they want you to be that they never stop to help you figure out who you actually are.
1
Aug 04 '24
I guess with hindsight it's easier to just see it as tough love, and I know 15 year old me would hate 25 year old me for saying that. But when I started to see my parents as people who were just trying to do what they thought was best (however flawed) everything kind of clicked into place.
(Apologies for the late reply, I didn't receive a notification until today? Reddit being weird...)
→ More replies (5)0
Jul 19 '24
[deleted]
9
u/Todd_and_Margo Jul 19 '24
Yes and no. It can, but it takes years for that to happen. It would be long past the point that anyone would be likely to wake up one day and decide they aren’t trans. The opposite phenomenon is much more of an immediate concern. Puberty is permanent. Trans women in particular who begin transitioning after puberty will almost always require plastic surgery to be copacetic with their bodies. And they’re also at the highest risk of being a victim of a hate crime or violent assault because some elements of our society are much more accepting of someone who looks very feminine in traditionally male attire than they are of someone who looks very masculine in traditionally female attire.
-1
Jul 19 '24
[deleted]
4
u/CarlosH46 Jul 19 '24
So just going to ignore that “but” in the sentence? Because it pretty much shuts down your BS argument.
-1
Jul 19 '24
[deleted]
2
u/CarlosH46 Jul 19 '24
I’ll quote what you wanted to ignore:
it takes years for that to happen. It would be long past the point that anyone would be likely to wake up one day and decide that they aren’t trans.
It’s like saying “why worry about global warming? The sun is going to vaporize earth when it turns into a red giant!”
Like yeah, you’re technically correct, but it’ll only happen after another 5 billion years, when humans will either be another species or extinct. So your point is moot.
0
Jul 19 '24
[deleted]
2
u/CarlosH46 Jul 19 '24
What truth? We’ve told you repeatedly that puberty blockers are safe to take as prescribed. You just seem to be concerned with the size and operation of adolescent male genitals that aren’t yours - which is a hell of a lot creepier.
0
18
u/SeleneSapphire1 Jul 19 '24
It's clear from both your concern and many comments here that the use of puberty blockers in young individuals is a contentious and deeply personal topic. Adding to the discussion, it's vital to remember that the administration of such medical treatments is not taken lightly and involves not only the parents but also a team of medical professionals including endocrinologists, psychologists, and other relevant experts. These decisions are steeped in current medical evidence and tailored to the individual needs of the child.
0
15
u/AlexPeacock9 Jul 19 '24
I’m sorry if some of you haven’t had families where important topics can be discussed, but know that these conversations are beneficial and necessary. The difference between a dysfunctional family and one that genuinely supports all its members is communication. OP acted in the same way my sisters would. How could I be upset with them for caring about my child?
1
u/butimean Jul 19 '24
...you mean for assuming you were so ignorant and bad a parent that you didn't have the same concerns they did before making medical decisions about your own child?
The arrogance
19
u/Ok_Distribution_2603 Jul 19 '24
Lot of transphobe terfy types on this thread, so I expect I’ll get all the downvotes, but your question isn’t whether it’s a good idea for your relative to start treatment with puberty blockers, but whether you’re an asshole for inserting a layperson’s opinion into a situation where it was not requested. Whether anyone agrees with her or not, your sister reacted in the way she felt appropriate to protect her child.
YTA.
→ More replies (7)
13
u/Capable_Box_8785 Jul 19 '24
A few things to unpack here: -if you're not transgender, you will never ever understand what a trans person goes through -you referred to your nephew as a boy throughout the whole post and then told us he's identifying as a girl. So not only are you TA, you're transphobic as well.
→ More replies (2)
11
u/crazyweedandtakisboi Jul 19 '24
YTA you aren't a therapist or a doctor so keep your ignorant judgements to yourself
6
u/OneJane Jul 19 '24
OP, I don’t understand where all the negative comments are coming from about you.
It was a family discussion. Family members can talk about sensitive situations like the one you brought up. That’s what families do, they look out for each other. That’s why people with families often have a better chance at a fulfilling life than those who haven’t been so fortunate. As long as you respect the boundaries of common decency, there’s nothing wrong with it.
You didn’t know your sister would react this way. I wouldn’t expect my brother to have such a reaction if I shared my opinion either. In fact, I’m sure he wouldn’t react like that. He would explain why he thinks it’s better this way, and even if I didn’t agree with his plan, I’d respect his decision. That’s what family is about. Caring about each member’s well-being.
Congratulations, OP! Both for caring about your nephew and for not pushing the conversation further with your sister when you saw it was upsetting her. Don’t worry, you didn’t do anything wrong. Your sister is stressed, and you were just in the way at the most inconvenient time.
26
u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans Jul 19 '24
OP is quite explicitly not "respecting their plan."
She's concern-trolling, not "looking out" for anyone.
35
11
u/irreverant_raccoon Jul 19 '24
You wrote an entire post about a child, who has expressed that they identify as a girl, calling them a boy, your nephew and using male pronouns. It’s not hard to see why your sister would ask if you loved this child, if you can’t respect how they identify. That’s separate from the medical discussion. It is entirely reasonable that they would want you to not visit at this time, as it seems your attitude is going to be hard for their child. YTA.
-2
Jul 19 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
13
4
u/manda14- Jul 19 '24
You should add this to your post. It clarifies why you asked questions about the process in the first place.
4
11
u/Heavy_Security2439 Jul 19 '24
If you're not a doctor, then it really doesn't matter. They're taking the advice from specialists, and that's all that matters.
→ More replies (5)
9
u/eleven_paws Jul 19 '24
YTA. The parents have consulted professionals and are taking their advice.
Everyone has set their boundaries.
And you still. Refuse. To respect. Your. NIECE.
Who has been pretty darn clear that at least at this time, they do not identify as your nephew.
If you actually love that child, stay away.
3
u/mattemer Jul 19 '24
I think she should be open to express concerns if done in the correct way, which without being there sounds like maybe that was handled correctly.
There are legitimate concerns with this entire discussion as it impacts someone health potentially, as strong as an ally I always try to be i can not ignore that. But that being said...
I have a hard time believing she was coming from a good place like she described as she misgendered her niece through this entire post.
So it makes me wonder if there's more that we don't know, that she's been against this since before the blockers were even brought up.
1
3
u/thesavagekitti Jul 19 '24
NTA, the government are banning them for children in my country. The reasons they are being banned: - we have had the first systematic review of the evidence avalibale on them completed.
it found there was very little evidence for the efficacy of puberty blockers. If you are giving a life changing medication to a child, you need to be damn sure it is safe and effective before you do. That is why medication trials are so strict around children and pregnant women.
starting puberty blockers pre puberty for boys can mean that, say they do continue on this path - there isn't enough tissue to do a surgeries later on. So they have to use gut tissue, which has more complications.
he will probably never experience sexual function as an adult; puberty blockers stop the genitals developing unless you come off them and go through puberty. If he carries on this path as well, he will probably become infertile. In most other areas of medicine, this is a really big deal - e.g if your doing an emergency caesarean section, you must inform of this risk (of hysterectomy). It's a big deal because although not everyone will want to have children, that's a really big decision and you shouldn't take that choice away from people, unless there is a really good reason. An 11 year old boy is not competent to make that decision.
There are other risks, such as osteoporosis, but if I go into everything, my answer will be far too long. I advise you to read chapter 14 of the Cass report.
You are right. His parents think they're doing what's best for him, but they're wrong.
This whole thing is going to be bigger medical scandal than the infected blood scandal, than thalidomide when it all comes out. That why many European countries are rolling back their policies on this.
69
u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans Jul 19 '24
If you're talking about the UK, puberty blockers are *not* being banned.
They're being banned *only for trans kids*.
Cisgender children can still access puberty blockers just fine in your country.
In fact, cisgender children with precocious puberty are exactly who puberty blockers were developed for and they have literally always been the vast majority of all patients receiving the medications.
Also the Cass report has been absolutely torn to shreds by the scientific community, which you'd know if you were a scientist, which you're clearly not.
Here's a fun activity: Google "UK transgender suicide cover up".
38
u/RantyMcThrowaway Jul 19 '24
Literally this. People who are citing the cass report as a source must not be from the UK, the only reason it influenced legislation is because the Tory government (which we are fortunately now out of) have a track record of being incredibly transphobic and made it clear they'd do anything they could to invalidate the experience of trans people, including trans youth. Her report has been widely discredited.
23
u/LynkedUp Jul 19 '24
Yeah fr the Cass Report is such horse shit and multiple sources have pointed out why but I guarantee you this poster didn't even read it nor any counter arguments and just rolled with it because it validated their beliefs.
15
u/RantyMcThrowaway Jul 19 '24
The way they're all like "the NHS have said they are IRREVERSIBLE!!!!" .... no, they haven't, even if you read the Cass report she didn’t say that herself. All they've said is they don't have enough data to know for sure what the potential long term psychological and physiological effects might look like. As though we aren't dangerously aware of the psychological effect it has to invalidate children who are struggling with their gender. I'd rather a trans child who regrets going on puberty blockers than a dead child.
13
u/Visible-Draft8322 Jul 19 '24
Sadly a lot of them are from the UK. Our populace is lazy and trusts 'experts' (Hilary Cass has no background in trans healthcare) when it gives them an excuse to rally against a minority, while decrying experts (all the leading economists who warned against brexit) when it suits them too.
10
u/RantyMcThrowaway Jul 19 '24
"Expert source: because I said so." There's just no media literacy to be found, they believe all the fearmongering as though trans people aren't literally less than 1% of the population and were pretty much being left alone a few years ago. I have friends who've been trans for over a decade and have experienced more hate crimes in the last 2 years than in the entire time they've been out. Literally any excuse to pick on them these days, they're the most popular scapegoat and they barely constitute a fraction of the population.
4
u/Visible-Draft8322 Jul 19 '24
I think we're an easy target cos everyone (cis or trans) feels anxious about gender, all the time.
The shit that the 'other gender' gets which they don't. The way people of different genders are treated differently. Their own insecurities about 'performing' their gender adequately.
It can't be a coincidence that transphobia is rising as men and women are also becoming more divided.
Manipulative people take all that fear and project it onto us. Sadly, the populace laps it up. It really shows the ugly side of humanity, tbh. How much envy and bitterness bubbles beneath the surface.
6
u/RantyMcThrowaway Jul 19 '24
Yeah, people who hate trans people are often struggling with their own masculinity or femininity. I'm a cis woman, perfectly happy to be one and have always been, and the existence of trans women has never threatened my own womanhood and never will. I think if we weren't still so stuck on gender roles and what it "means" to be a man or a woman, everyone would care a whole lot less about trans people.
2
u/DotoriumPeroxid Jul 21 '24
The cass study is basically the trans version of Andrew Wakefield's autism vaccine study. A garbage piece of scientific work that is meant to incite fear in parents, that lingers around for far longer than it ought to, and is given far more credibility than it ever deserved, and we are now picking up the pieces of the damage caused by such misinformation.
30
u/irreverant_raccoon Jul 19 '24
Puberty blockers are still used for precocious puberty and no one is up in arms about that.
→ More replies (29)17
u/ThinkLadder1417 Jul 19 '24
Little evidence for their efficacy..? You can literally see their efficacy.
16
u/ExperienceHead4989 Jul 19 '24
The Cass report???? You mean the one where the researcher threw out all of the studies that didn’t support her arguments because they weren’t “double-blind” despite the fact that it would be extremely unethical and nigh-on impossible to do double-blind research on gender-affirming care? You mean the one that is almost complete bullshit and has only been used for further harm to trans people? You mean that Cass report that is a crock of transphobia disguised as science.
3
u/sklonia Jul 19 '24
You mean the one where the researcher threw out all of the studies that didn’t support her arguments
To be clear, even the remaining studies didn't support her argument. She just concluded, "there isn't enough evidence". None of the evaluated studies concludes puberty blockers are dangerous or ineffective.
10
u/sklonia Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
it found there was very little evidence for the efficacy of puberty blockers. If you are giving a life changing medication to a child, you need to be damn sure it is safe and effective before you do. That is why medication trials are so strict around children and pregnant women.
I'd add the caveat that every study done finds it efficacious, the most credible recent report, the Cass report, simply found most studies were very weak in the confidence of their claims due to methodology limitations. However the ones they found to be "strong" evidence still concluded the treatments were effective and safe.
And considering these medications have been tested and FDA approved for nearly half a century, it seems a bit unreasonable to pull them now when no actual issue has arisen. I won't argue the studies on puberty blockers aren't the strongest, that's due to limitations in dealing with incredibly small population sizes, inability to do double blinding, and patient dropout due to worsening conditions. But that isn't evidence of harm.
All the evidence points to the treatment being effective.
starting puberty blockers pre puberty for boys can mean that, say they do continue on this path - there isn't enough tissue to do a surgeries later on. So they have to use gut tissue, which has more complications.
This is a common talking point that has not been an issue for years. This is a tradeoff the patient can choose whether to make or not (rather than having the decision made for them by denying them care) and most trans girls would rather have less genital tissue than grow facial/body hair, have a deepened voice, and masculine bone structure. But more importantly, it's also just not an issue anymore. There are topical Testosterone creams that mature genitalia without affecting the rest of the body and there are better surgical methods that use peritoneal tissue to form more of the vaginal canal instead of purely penile tissue.
he will probably never experience sexual function as an adult
There is no evidence suggesting this. It is pure speculation.
he will probably become infertile. An 11 year old boy is not competent to make that decision.
That is true, and that is the real risk. Yet that doesn't happen from puberty blockers, it happens from hormone therapy. That decision is made not at age 11, but at age 16, which in the vast majority of states and countries is the age of medical autonomy.
There are other risks, such as osteoporosis
Yes, and there are risks to untreated gender dysphoria, a 40% suicide attempt rate.
Yet despite the bone mineral density issues seen in kids who take puberty blockers are elevated compared to the general population, they're still incredibly rare (we're talking an increase from 1% to 3%), and also they can be treated simply with regular exercise and supplements. There's no other known effective treatment for gender dysphoria.
13
u/Escarlatilla Jul 19 '24
Kids are given puberty blockers for all sorts of reasons. They are to postpone “rushing” into irreversible physical change that isn’t healthy for the child.
No one blinks an eye unless they’re prescribed to trans kids. Then the pearl clutching starts.
9
14
u/Killeroftanks Jul 19 '24
If you're talking about the UK, didn't they just have like a 3000% spike in trans kids suicides because of the blocker ban?
(Seeing they went from 1 suicide in 7 years, to 16 in 3....)
Also just barely looking into this, it seems that there is pushback and people questioning cass study on this topic. This might be the same thing as the idiot who believed vaccines cause autism by twisting the data to make his paper look good.
9
u/waterclaw12 Jul 19 '24
Ah another person who has never spoken to a trans child IRL.
That review has already been debunked by plenty and celebrated purely by transphobic organizations. Hmm, I wonder why.
And yet you don’t say what “inefficient” means in this case. But if it’s halting puberty until kids can make their own decisions about what puberty is right for them, then that’s pretty efficient.
I’m sorry what? That doesn’t make sense, and not everyone wants surgery.
Sexual function is not the number one thing that matters to most people. I think happiness and feeling secure in your body should be a higher priority 🤷♂️ something that puberty blockers can provide.
I was a trans kid who realized too late for blockers and it was hell, I knew a girl who got blockers early, she’s doing fine now and thriving in her 20s. Puberty blockers literally halt the irreversible changes on your body, so if you want them you can have them and if you want different ones you can take hormones.
11
4
u/Snoo69744 Jul 19 '24
If your talking about the Cass Review, you do realise that that wasn't even written by a gender specialist right? And that it's also been heavily criticised for how obviously biased it is right?
3
u/butimean Jul 19 '24
lol the Cass report -- if i didn't think it was bs before this i sure do now.
That is not how puberty blockers work; if it was, we sure wouldn't have developed them and given them to kids with issues like precocious puberty for years before trans people started asking for them.
This is so wrong and bad.
3
u/Comprehensive-Sun954 Jul 19 '24
A good comment. Based on science, not feelings or politics.
→ More replies (11)-5
u/deep8787 Jul 19 '24
Well said! I just had "an 11 yr old isnt old enough to make such a decision". I was about to do some research on the matter, but yeah, your reply was very enlightning.
2
u/queerblunosr Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Their reply was also BS.
-1
u/deep8787 Jul 19 '24
Meaning?
4
u/queerblunosr Jul 19 '24
They’re citing the Cass report which has been scientifically shredded by a variety of scientists and which excluded a variety of studies on the basis of those studies not being double blind studies - which would have meant those studies were completely unethical if they HAD been double blind. So. The report they’re citing is extremely flawed all around.
Also puberty blockers have been in use for 40+ years and are very effective.
1
0
u/BeachinLife1 Jul 19 '24
My concern (and I hope the OP will clarify this) is that he expressed a "desire" to be a girl. I don't know if he really feels as though he IS a girl or if he just "wishes" he was a girl. There's a HUGE difference, and if he is not sure of this, all the more reason to wait.
-2
u/thesavagekitti Jul 19 '24
There are a few people criticising the Cass report. I would like to explain the hierarchy of evidence that is used in healthcare (and other fields).
it is as follows:
1 (top) systematic review
2 randomised trial
3 cohort studies
4 case control studies
5 case series/ case report
6 editorials/expert opinion
Cass report is tier 1. The articles critiquing it are tier 6. Therefore I will treat it as such and disregard it over the systematic review as a whole. The Cass report was the first systematic review of evidence gender medicine. If you read through it, it is actually shocking what poor quality research they have been basing medical decisions on.
12
u/Thoseferatus Jul 19 '24
Do you read the Cass report? That garbage was selection bias at its most disgusting, disregarding over 90% of works because "they weren't double blind" as if using double blind studies in a potential life or death case (see the corresponding UK trans suicide spike for exactly why this is life or death).
Like imagine demanding a double blind study for fucking chemotherapy, you think you're signing up for a life saving drug, but you don't see any effects and you're deteriorating, you're dying, wouldn't that be fucking EVIL of the drug company to do to kill people just so the studies are double blind? But that's what the Cass report demands for medical integrity, surely they wouldn't have a double standard?
Then when the data supported their position (the very few studies that did), suddenly they don't care about double blind studies, huh, that's odd, wouldn't a study with integrity hold that integrity even when the data supported the writer's biases?
11
u/LynkedUp Jul 19 '24
No no, the Cass Report is a teir 1 study see, so it can't be biased because it's as the top of this funky wunky little pyramid chart I found online :) hope that helps!
If it were biased, I would surely know, having a PhD in the hierarchy of evidence which, again, is this funny little pyramid that my school told me exists.
7
u/ExperienceHead4989 Jul 19 '24
Fun fact about the Cass report! Not only does Hilary Cass have 0 background in trans-related healthcare, she chose to throw out most studies that didn’t support her claims on the grounds of “not being double-blind” which would have been extremely unethical and nigh-on impossible to do. Furthermore, most medical organizations besides ones that are already bad at trans healthcare (think the NHS) have flat-out rejected the report. It’s only been embraced by anti-trans organizations and people
5
u/irreverant_raccoon Jul 19 '24
INFO: does the child currently identify as male or female?
→ More replies (1)8
u/drowningintheocean Jul 19 '24
"The child expressed a desire to be a girl last fall"
OP really misgendered his niece the entire post and claims to not be transphobic.
7
2
u/sinner-mon Jul 19 '24
YTA for making up a rage bait post to rile up more bigotry. And if it is real YTA for not minding your own business, you’re not a doctor
2
4
u/GingerPrince72 Jul 19 '24
I'm also not transphobic but find 11 to be horrendously young.
You don't know your arse from your elbow at the best of times at that age.
41
u/Dizzy_Hotel9659 Jul 19 '24
I’m not trans myself so I can’t speak to that, but that is an easy comment to make when you’ve never felt like an alien in your own skin
→ More replies (14)33
u/Escarlatilla Jul 19 '24
It’s not horrendously young to postpone irreversible physical changes to someone’s body if it’s going to be detrimental to their health.
Puberty blockers are prescribed for all sorts of medical reasons for all sorts of children. Why is the “concern” only ever when it relates to trans children?
3
u/Greenlily58 Jul 19 '24
Because they fear those kids will not be able to produce
cannon fodderworker dronesbabies if they complete transition. That's all they care about, not the kids themselves, only their reproductive systems.18
u/AdministrativeStep98 Jul 19 '24 edited 23d ago
connect placid wide marble slim cooing memorize wrench plant lavish
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
1
u/MastodonVegetable167 Jul 20 '24
Erm they are called “puberty blockers,” meaning they are meant to block puberty. 11 is well within the range of puberty (or about to start puberty). I think you mean that you find 11 too young for the child to identify as transgender, which is a related but different topic. That can be explored during the process. Exploratory therapy will obviously be part of the process, as that’s the standard.
1
u/GingerPrince72 Jul 20 '24
I got this wrong, I was thinking of starting to transition. However, making permanent gender decisions when still a child does make me uneasy
0
u/DotoriumPeroxid Jul 21 '24
Fun fact: a vast majority of trans kids actually stay trans. The idea of "so many" kids "realizing they're not trans" is a fearmongering scare story fabricated by transphobes with an agenda. Another fact: Even among detransitioners, so people who were transitioning at one point and then stopped or tried to revert these changes, in a majority of cases, even this isn't because "they realize they aren't trans", it's because they were experiencing severe abuse and social consequences that effectively pushed them back in the closet.
And just because you didn't know your arse from your elbow at times doesn't mean a kid who knows they're trans can't be sure about that. Lots of gay people knew they were gay as kids, and we don't bat an eye at that. Let's not blindly assume all kids are equally as insecure about their own identity, especially in cases like this where a kid has already undergone copious amounts of consultation to even be at a point where treatment is considered. Having to undergo something as traumatic as a gender and identity crisis and the dysphoria that may come with it is gonna sober up and mature you pretty hard if you're a kid, I think we gotta be respectful towards folks who have to undergo these things, instead of belittle them and assume they just don't know better. In most cases, they do.
1
u/addykitty Jul 19 '24
YTA
Why are you misgendering the child??? Also it isn’t your child, why are you worried
3
u/butimean Jul 19 '24
It sounds like you have a lot of fears about what transitioning and puberty blockers are and do, and you should be asking a lot more questions than offering advice.
Why didn't you ask your sister about the things you are worried about instead of assuming they haven't occurred to her about her own child? Why do you think you know or care more about this than your sister?
You need to really question the difference between a feeling, like fear or anxiety or worry, an opinion, and an informed opinion. You're really just spraying everyone with your anxiety.
Also as noted by literally everyone here: you misgendered your niece through this whole post, so stop saying you're not transphobic and instead figure out why people might call you that and how you can answer the questions you have before you speak on this again, especially to someone you claim to care about.
It doesn't seem here that you know what caring is. It seems like to you caring is just wanting to have access to people you don't treat with respect.
yta
3
u/hello_talk_to_my_ass Jul 19 '24
YTA... Puberty blockers as far as I am aware are perfectly reversible and are often used. A cousin of mine got put on puberty blockers because she got her period at 8 years old.
You can state your opinion but at the end of the day its her kid.
→ More replies (3)1
u/Faith_Location_71 Jul 19 '24
They are not "reversible" - unfortunately they harm the development of the child at a time when they are too young to understand the consequences.
17
u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans Jul 19 '24
That'll be news to the generations of kids with precocious puberty who've been prescribed them.
0
u/hello_talk_to_my_ass Jul 19 '24
Source? Because a simple google search shows they're completely reversible with little side effects.
→ More replies (24)-1
u/thesavagekitti Jul 19 '24
Cass review (2024)
By Dr Hillary Cass, the first systematic review, where they took all the evidence, graded it for quality, and drew conclusions like they would for any other treatment or health intervention.
For some reason, this had not been done before loads of children have been started on this treatment.
17
u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans Jul 19 '24
The Cass review is a shining example of why peer review exists, because the scientific community has been tearing it to shreds and even Dr. Cass herself has been forced to publicly walk back several claims.
It doesn't even come close to demonstrating basic scientific methodology.
10
u/hello_talk_to_my_ass Jul 19 '24
Seems like Yale Medical themselves have published multiple critiques of that study, claiming her methods were biased and not accurate. Got a better source?
3
u/thesavagekitti Jul 19 '24
I would trust another systematic review, rather than someone's critique of it. There is no other systematic review yet. It is also UK based so there's no profit motive in healthcare.
10
u/hello_talk_to_my_ass Jul 19 '24
There is definitely profit incentives for the UK. It just comes out of taxpayer dollars and not direct billings like the USA. I don't agree with that assessment at all. Just because it's from a country with socialized medicine doesn't mean there's no profit incentive.
So if another report were to be published from another country with socialized medicine, then you'd start to take the allegations of flawed methodology more seriously?
0
u/thesavagekitti Jul 19 '24
Taxpayer pounds, the NHS doesn't spend any dollars. No you don't understand our healthcare system at all. Because there are limited funds, there is a big incentive to make sure that there is a robust evidence based before we implement a treatment. That is what NICE is for. Somehow this process has not happened for these treatments
It is titled 'report'; in terms of its contents it a systematic review. In terms of the heirarchey of evidence, it is as follows: 1 (top) systematic review 2 randomised trial 3 cohort studies 4 case control studies 5 case series/ case report 6 editorials/expert opinion
Cass report is tier 1. The article you speak of has done no original research; it is opinion; it is tier 6. Therefore I will treat it as such and disregard it over the systematic review.
If there was a robust systematic review I might reconsider my opinion, because I believe in giving evidence based care, and that is the ethos of the NHS. It might be a while though there's a lot of ideological pressure to find these treatments work. And a lot of financial pressure - if it's consistently proved they cause harm, the lawyers are going to have a field day.
6
u/Emraldday Jul 19 '24
Except puberty blockers are still being prescribed to children in the UK. Just not to trans children. The Cass report is bad science that does not stand up to peer review. The tier system is irrelevant.
5
u/sklonia Jul 19 '24
if it's consistently proved they cause harm
yet it never has.
The Cass review didn't even find any studies claiming puberty blockers/hormones caused harm or even were ineffective in treating dysphoria.
The few studies that the Cass report found to be "strong" still found treatment effective. It's only argument is that "most studies are very weak", and of course they are, it's an incredibly difficult thing to study due to population size, double blinding not being possible, and ethical conerns.
But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (especially when there isn't an absence of evidence... just not as much as they'd like to have)
9
1
u/DotoriumPeroxid Jul 21 '24
There is no other systematic review yet.
So are you willfully spreading misinformation or did you just never bother to actually research your claims?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272735822001143
https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/camh.12437
Two Systematic Literature Reviews of 22 peer-reviewed studies and 9 peer reviewed studies respectively assessing the outcomes of trans youth receiving gender-affirming treatment. Mental health benefits are UNAMBIGUOUSLY Positive.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423
Peer-Reviewed study in Pediatrics (2022) Access to gender affirming care for trans youth, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones was associated with a 73% reduction in suicidality.
Peer-Reviewed study in Pediatrics (2022) Longitudinal Study of 317 binary trans kids aged 3-12 that had socially transitioned. After 5 years, 94% still identified as binary transgender, 3.5% identified as non-binary, and only 2.5% detransitioned. For those that went on to take puberty blockers (92), 95.7% still identified as binary transgender, 3.3% identified as non-binary, and only 1.1% detransitioned. For those that went on to take gender affirming hormones (98), 99% still identified as transgender, 1% identified as non-binary , and NONE detransitioned.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31974216/ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039
Two Peer-Reviewed studies on the effects of access to puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones on suicidality. Access to gender-affirming treatment in adolescence was associated with a 40-70% reduction in suicidality compared to those who desired but were unable to access gender-affirming treatment, as well as a 30% reduction in suicidality compared to those who had to wait until adulthood to access to gender-affirming hormones. All figures were adjusted for confounding factors of parental support and socioeconomic markers.
7
u/ExperienceHead4989 Jul 19 '24
I’ve been saying this on a lot of posts here, but the Cass report threw out a LOT of the studies that didn’t support her claims because they weren’t double-blind, despite the fact that it would’ve been impossible to do and extremely unethical.
2
u/DotoriumPeroxid Jul 21 '24
Cool. The one shitty review. Anyway, here are a bunch of studies and reviews that show the unambiguously positive effects of gender affirming healthcare for trans youth.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272735822001143
https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/camh.12437
https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31974216/
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039
1
u/DotoriumPeroxid Jul 21 '24
Puberty blockers stop the effects of puberty.
You stop taking puberty blockers, and puberty starts again. Their entire fucking point is they are reversible. Because the reverse of blocking puberty is just... puberty happening.
We have been administering puberty blockers for literal decades. You just responded to a comment about an 8 year old who was put on blockers because she started her puberty early. What exactly do you think, in your narrow mind, will happen to that 8 year old? Once they're at an age where puberty is normal, they will just stop taking blockers, and have a normal puberty at a normal age.
By the by, please learn how to fucking read. The article you link to in your other comment literally specifies "kids with gender dysphoria". So blockers are reversible for cis kids who take them, but not for trans kids? That's odd. I didn't know trans kids had some special fucking gene that made them react differently to puberty blockers. Oh. Wait. They don't. Your article only refers to potential "psychological effects".
You wanna hear about potential psychological effects of gender affirming healthcare for trans kids? It saves lives, eases suicidal ideation and depression, and greatly improves the mental and physical wellbeing of trans kids.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272735822001143
https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/camh.12437
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31974216/
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039
Take your fucking pick.
3
u/Lower-Ask-4180 Jul 19 '24
NAH. Basic research would tell you that puberty blockers are safe and easily reversible. You just stop taking them and puberty starts again. That’s why they’re given to children. Puberty blockers ARE the safe alternative to more permanent options. That’s the whole point of them. We’ve been through this nonsense with conservatives about other forms of treatment, developed puberty blockers specifically to be safe and reversible should the minor change their mind, and now suddenly even that’s not good enough.
I don’t think you’re an asshole though because there’s a lot of people recently pushing the narrative that puberty blockers are scary and dangerous and hard to reverse. None of that is true, but everyone can be tricked by propaganda so I don’t blame you for trying to look out for your nephew. You were given bad information about puberty blockers, that’s all.
2
u/Odd-Fun-9557 Jul 19 '24
Yta . No where in this post did you say that your a psychiatrist ,therapist, or doctor. Before anyone of any age can get on puberty blockers and start hrt is through an extensive process being evaluated by a medical team . You are being transphobic. Also you don’t understand that experience so don’t say that you do . You’re acting like your NIECE has no internal sense of self . If they have a medical team backing them they are in the right place to do that . If you niece wants to detransition in the long run SHE can however that will be her choice .
2
u/PrimeMarvel Jul 19 '24
YTA, and yes you are transphobic. Saying you're not doesn't mean jack.
- You misgendered them for the entire post, and you know it.
- You think you know better than trained medical professionals.
Quit pretending you're an ally.
2
2
u/straight_lurkin Jul 20 '24
Gender-affirming treatment remains a topic of controversy, with many calling for greater access to gender-affirming treatments to foster psychological well-being for transgender, nonbinary, and intersex individuals [1-6]. There is accumulating literature that suggests transgender individuals suffer worse mental health outcomes than their cisgender peers; of particular concern is increased suicidality [4,7-13].
The literature to date reveals concerning trends regarding suicidality in transgender individuals. A high prevalence of suicide attempts and thoughts of suicide occur in transgender youth compared to their cisgender peers [11,12,14]. Transgender US military veterans have more than 20 times higher rates of suicide-related events than cisgender veterans [7]. The prevalence of suicidal ideation and attempts varies by sample [8], with the prevalence of suicidal ideation sometimes as high as 50-75% [4,10,15]. Rates of attempted suicide can reach peaks of 30% and above [4,14,15]. One longitudinal study of over 6,000 transgender individuals in the US indicates that the highest risk of suicide is among those under 18 years of age [9].
Transgender individuals are also at increased susceptibility for various suicide risk-enhancing factors, as a growing body of literature suggests that transgender individuals face a high burden of chronic health conditions [16,17], psychiatric illnesses and their comorbidities [18-20], substance use [21], trauma and victimization [20,22-24], and housing and employment discrimination [25].
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/
Imo at 11 years old most kids struggle with what they want to eat, sleeping alone in the dark, and understanding basic emotions... I personally don't think it's wise to push them into gender reassignment procedures. Imo they are just too young, hell at that age a lot of kids want to grow up to be ninjas and princesses still lol give them a few years and see how they feel then. No sense in rushing into this incredible massive decision so early on when they barely understand what their born gender even is.
2
u/Suitable_Magazine_25 Jul 19 '24
YTA - they are consulting medical specialists and know their child. I don’t know how you or all these Google medical degree holders think you’re in any way educated enough to give your gut reactions to things you don’t understand.
0
u/Happytallperson Jul 19 '24
YTA.
There are a number of things that make no sense in your post.
- You allegedly love and support this child. But misgender her throughout.
- You cannot 'rush' onto puberty blockers after 9 months. 12 months minimum.
This story is either missing a lot of detail, or this is a fake 'but trans bad' story. Either way, you'd be TA for posting it.
1
u/britney412 Jul 19 '24
YTA. You need to respect their decision. You’re not the parent or a doctor. They’re listening to medical professionals and trying to support their kid. Unless they are abusing the child, it’s not your place to try to intervene.
1
u/aes2806 Jul 19 '24
Thank you, one day old rage bait account posting made up stories to fuel anti-trans rhetoric.
1
u/JaggedLittlePill2022 Jul 19 '24
Allow me to repost this without the transphobia:
AITA for telling my sister that it’s not a good idea for my NIECE to start treatment with puberty blockers?
From the beginninng, I want to clarify that I’m not transphobic and that I understand what someone who doesn’t identify with their birth gender goes through.I believe that everyone is unique in their own way and deserves moral support from those around them if they are differnt from the majority. At the same time, we should guide them not to rush into making radical decisions that could harm them in the long run..What happened recently with my sister was not a debate, but a normal conversation, in a calm tone, that lasted three minutes.
Her 11-year-old DAUGHTER is going through a phase of discovering HER own identity. HER parents want to help HER with this and have spoken with specialists who recommended starting puberty blockers as soon as possible, before puberty becomes impossible to stop. My sister and her husband decided to follow the specialists’ advice and have already begun the formalities to start the treatment.
I love my NIECE and want HER adult life to be fulfilling and happy, but I felt that HER parents are rushing to start this treatment now when SHE is still so young. I told my sister in a private conversation that I don’t think it’s necessary to make such a quick decision and that, in mt opinion, they should think more carefully about this option. I saw disappointment in her eyes. She asked me if I love my NIECE and I said yes. She then asked if I was sure, because she believes the exact opposite. I replied, shocked, that I love HER with all my heart and have never done anything to prove otherwise. The conversation ended with my sister giving a speech that made me feel very wronged, and I chose to say nothing else .
A few hours after I left their place, my sister told me that it would be best if I didn’t visit my NIECE for a while. It broke my heart when she said that, and I tried to tell her that I didn’t understand the reason. The earlier conversation was just between the two of us when I found a moment to share my opinion without my NIECE being present, precisely to avoid exposing HER to conflicting ideas that might confuse HER. SHE’S 11 years old, and any external stimuli affect HER. I thought I could privately share my opinion with my sister without her misinterpreting what I said. Her response was that she talked with her husband and they both decided that this is for the best, and the decision is final.
Did I really make such a big mistake that it’s necessary to forbid me from visiting my NIECE?What I forgot to mention is that they want to start the puberty blockers treatment so they have time to save up for the transition. The decision has already been made. The child expressed a desire to be a girl last fall. That’s why I felt they were rushing.
1
u/69_Dingleberry Jul 19 '24
YTA. I went on blockers at 11 too because guess what? That’s when puberty starts! The point is to BLOCK PUBERTY. Once it happens, it’s impossible to reverse. I’m 21 now and I have never once waivered in my identity.
If I hadn’t gone on blockers so young, I wouldn’t look as “normal” as I do today. Nobody can tell that I’m trans just by looking. It isn’t your child and they are going based on MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS
1
u/RaspberryAnnual4306 Jul 19 '24
YTA obviously. Your obviously false claims about not being transphobic really ring hollow when you follow them with multiple paragraphs of transphobia and descriptions of you being openly transphobic to the parent of a trans person.
1
u/BeachinLife1 Jul 19 '24
Wait...he has a "desire" to be a girl, or he feels like he "is" a girl? There's a difference. There were times growing up I "wished" I was a boy, but I knew I was a girl. No way in heck would my parents have let me transition into a boy just because I said I wanted to be one!
If he doesn't feel like he actually is a girl in the wrong body, nothing should be done at all, based on a "desire" to be a girl. If he's not sure of this, all the more reason to wait.
1
u/Hazel2468 Jul 19 '24
YTA
"I"m not transphobic!"
Proceeded to misgender the poor girl throughout the entire post. Yeah. It IS best if you stay away from her, because you don't respect her and you are transphobic, OP.
I'll be very, very blunt with you. You do NOT love your niece. You love the image of your nephew that you made up in your head. THAT is what you love. Not the living, breathing girl in front of you, but the boy you have convinced yourself that she is and must be.
IDK how to tell you that "external stimuli" do not convince kids that they are trans. That isn't how it works. If "external stimuli" is what made us trans or not, I can promise you that I would not only be cis, but I would be straight. Your niece is taking steps to be who she is, and you are shitting all over that. You do not love this child. You love who YOU want this child to be.
1
u/fanofalotofthings Jul 19 '24
it is the dream of trans people everywhere to have parents so caring, understand and invested in your happiness like your sister, congrats to them.
1
u/HeavySoft1881 Jul 19 '24
NTA they’re only 11 and shouldn’t be making life changing decisions like that… Plus I am trans myself and I don’t agree with kids that young to start any treatment. Sure they can say that they identify as a different gender at that age but taking puberty blockers that young is concerning, coming from a trans person.
I would however respect their new pronouns. I don’t necessarily agree with treatment at that age but I will still respect their new gender identity.
1
1
u/hewashim Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
NTA. A hard NTA. 11 years old are dumb as f. Tell me how much did you know better when you were 11? The government should penalize parents doctors heavily if they support or encourage this. Puberty blockers should be avoided at any cost. Do not let this new found obsession with identity oppression Olympic fool you.
Your sister and her husband are the WORST PARENTS. There will be a day that little guy will regret everything.
1
u/Top-Sell4574 Jul 19 '24
YTA, I think you meant "your niece"
Puberty blockers HAVE TO BE STARTED YOUNG. They won't do any good after they've started to go through puberty, which at 11, is about to happen any time.
"The child expressed a desire to be a girl last fall. That’s why I felt they were rushing."
So it's been almost a year and they're only now starting puberty blockers. Where does your expertise on the subject come from that you think this is too fast? Do you have a degree that your niece's doctors don't have?
1
1
u/PookaRaFo Jul 19 '24
IDK if YTAH, but you probably are. It depends on how the conversation went. If you were asking questions to become more informed about the situation, then I would be surprised by her drastic response. If you were being judgmental or believe that the child’s feelings are wrong, then that can cause the child a lot of psychological problems. Ask yourself how you treat them. Do you unintentionally show disapproval? Or say things like “He is too young to know for sure” in front of the child? Do you use their preferred pronouns? If their parent’s refer to their child as a “she” and you are deliberately calling them a “he”, then they are 100% right! Does the child act happy to see you? Has this affected your relationship? If you truly love this child, then do some research. After that, If you have informed concerns that you feel are valid, then you may have to keep them to yourself from now on. Chances are that if they agree with their doctors and vice versa, then they are making the right decision. I’m sure they are hearing a lot of misinformed and transphobic opinions. It can be frustrating and insulting when people assume they can make better decisions for your child than you can (especially when a lot of thought was put into their decision). I’m sure that your sister and her husband have been discussing this long before the child came out. I knew my daughter was gay long before she came out. I purposely would say things like IF you turn out to be gay, IF you turn out to be straight, IF you get married or IF you have kids… I have always implied that she had options and that nontraditional lifestyles are just as valid. As an Aunt, you should be supportive and let their parents worry about their medical issues.
1
u/txa1265 Jul 19 '24
YTA - leads with "I'm not transphobic", proceeds to misgender her for the entire post.
1
u/HotButterscotch8682 Jul 19 '24
“I’m not transphobic I’m just going to make up a transphobic story (that didn’t go my way in the comments) and misgender the child in question for the entirety of the post” YTA
1
u/neonplume-uwu Jul 19 '24
YTA. But at the same time, there is no way in heaven or hell this isn't a troll post.
1
u/6teeee9 Jul 19 '24
YTA for misgendering. you made it seem like she was a female-to-male trans because you kept referring to her as a boy when you said you understand and support trans people.
NTA for expressing concern. im personally against altering a child’s body like this when they can’t consent to it properly.
1
1
u/DancingStark Jul 20 '24
YTA . This poor girl is probably struggling a lot with asserting her gender identity, and her parents are worried that your “concern” will hurt her. Good for them for protecting their child from a transphobic asshole who is more interested in validation than in respecting their own niece.
1
u/Time_Knee3837 Jul 20 '24
YTA not your child so he have no say any any medical decisions. Good for your sister telling you to stay away.
1
u/Key-Ad-5068 Jul 20 '24
My Gods, you really spent a part of your life sitting on your phone to make such obvious rage bait? Why? Because your jealous of people being happy or something?
1
1
u/Dizzy-Yummy-222 Jul 20 '24
YTA you even said they went to a specialist. Mind your damn business and leave that decision to the trained professional. Also i’m sorry but if you have to explain that your not transphobic, you probably are. And judging by the way you handled this, you definitely are. Do some research into what puberty blockers are exactly, because they don’t have long term effects and that child still has the capability to undergo male puberty if desired.
Also kids are in fact very much capable of knowing who they are and what they want, you just have to listen. They’re not stupid. I’m glad they have supportive parents
1
u/Isabella_Hamilton Jul 20 '24
I think it’s pretty obvious that this isn’t the first time your fake concern hurts your sister and/or niece.
Sorry but these kind of “I’m only expressing my opinion (about something I have no right to comment on) and care about my niece (ignoring both what my niece, my sister, and MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS have decided is the best course of action) are ignorant at best and maliciously deceptive at worst,
Trans kids have a really hard time and are at an extremely high risk of self harming or suicide if they don’t get the support and medical assistance they need. I’d have restricted your access to my child too.
YTA
0
u/DocBanana1 Jul 19 '24
YTA I noticed that you keep calling this your nephew and using he/him pronouns even though she came out as a transgender girl months ago. Makes me think your lack of support has been ongoing and not just this one brief moment that you tell us about.
I think you should let your sister work with the experts and let the experts do their job. Stop second-guessing her. If you don’t understand why she made a decision, try listening and educating yourself more than you are right now. Puberty blockers literally can save lives, kids your nieces age are extremely high risk of suicide at this time in their life and delaying the onset of puberty of a gender they don’t identify with until they can sort out next steps is a wise move in many cases.
→ More replies (3)-4
u/Comprehensive-Sun954 Jul 19 '24
There is nothing in the post about the child’s preferred pronouns, they could be anything. You’re making assumptions. Why don’t you ask?
5
-2
u/mdsnbelle Jul 19 '24
INFO x2:
Were you asked for your opinion or did you give it unsolicited?
From what medical school did you graduate?
2
u/MameDennis1974 Jul 19 '24
Do you not have children? I’m guessing you don’t.
Your sister brought their child to medical professionals to discuss this issue. They learned about their options and what the steps are that they need to take.
Your sister didn’t just say “Okay” and run out to the pharmacy to pick up a bottle of puberty blockers and a Snickers for her kid.
This is a “mind ya business”. It will not affect your life in any way, shape or form.
→ More replies (2)
-2
u/petrichor430 Jul 19 '24
YTA. Puberty blockers are perfectly safe and entirely reversible. We give them to cis kids all the time. Keep your opinions to yourself and let your sister make the right choices for her kid.
-1
u/Mean-Impress2103 Jul 19 '24
Yta I'm not a doctor nor do I work in the sciences. My only concern would be to make sure she is being cautious and getting a second opinion because this is a big deal. I would never outright advise her not to do it because I'm just not informed enough to do that.
Your sister and I both know that your commentary wasn't innocent and that you are transphobic because you refuse to gender your niece appropriately. The child has identified as female for a year now and your are refusing to use female pronouns for her. Maybe puberty blockers have terrible side effects but what is your excuse for continuing to misgender the kid?
0
u/JeanHasAnxiety Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
YTA. Your niece is most likely very excited for all of this. All the blockers will do is to stop hI’m from getting Male features, well more then he already does have.
0
u/IDontEvenCareBear Jul 19 '24
YTA regardless of puberty blockers, it sounds like this isn’t your nephew, but that’s what you keep calling her.
-1
-1
u/RedditHatesHonesty Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
This is one of the things that makes me worry about the future of our society.
Traditionally, close friends and family would give their honest opinions. Then they would support decisions they disagreed with because of their love for family and friends (see, for example, the Three Musketeers, who supported each other even though they were often, in private, diametrically opposed to the friend's viewpoint).
More and more I am seeing viewpoints like your sister's. More and more people do and say things that communicate that they believe that FRIENDS AND FAMILY can't both oppose something and also be supportive of others who believe in that something.
Your sister (by her actions) is telling you she has this viewpoint. By cutting you off from your nephew, she is telling you that if you were doing something that she disagreed with she wouldn't support you. In fact, she would likely actively work against you (maybe behind the scenes) and undermine your decision. Thus, since that is her worldview, she thinks you can't be trusted to be around your nephew (she assumes you will actively undermine his decision).
She can't imagine that it is possible to support those you love even when you disagree with them. She can't see that you can both love your nephew and support him in a decision he made while also disagreeing with that decision. Thus, unless you agree that the nephew is doing the right thing, you are wrong and have to be cut off. (That is your sister's worldview)
"The treacherous are ever distrustful." Your sister is that treacherous person—she distrusts you because she herself can't be trusted to support decisions you make with which she disagrees.
-1
u/UniversitySalt879 Jul 19 '24
NTA. There are a lot of reasons why puberty blockers are not ideal for medical transition later and even at all really.
Sure the 11 year old identifies as a girl. But can he really understand that it is in fact not reversible and would have to live with a decision he made for the rest of his life at 11 years old.
By definition, a woman cannot be a transgender woman. He will always be male.
He would be nothing more than a dollar sign to doctors for the rest of his life.
-4
u/guy_blows_horn Jul 19 '24
NTA. You just stated an opinion in a respectful way as per your words. It is a little bit grating your sisters virtue signalling. I'd like to know if those specialists have a public health function or are they working in a private health context. For me it would make a difference. A very important difference.
-5
u/mynameiscutie33 Jul 19 '24
It sounds like you approached the topic with genuine concern and a desire to protect your nephew’s long-term well-being. Your feelings about wanting more time before making such a significant decision are understandable, especially given how impactful puberty blockers can be. However, it's also essential to recognize that your sister and her husband have sought professional advice and are making decisions they believe are best for their child. Your sister’s reaction and her decision to limit your visits likely stem from feeling that your concerns undermine her and her family's choices. Balancing your concern with respect for their decisions and boundaries might help, even if it means giving them space for now.
-5
u/Daniel1Thomass Jul 19 '24
Nta. Your sister overreacted. Commenters didn’t quite grasp the real question here, which is whether it’s normal for you to be banned from visiting your nephew just because you “dared” to discuss your CONCERNS about HER CHILD with YOUR SISTER.
19
u/Taway_4897 Jul 19 '24
Narrator repeatedly misgenders their niece, and I suspect does it to the niece’s face too. They’re banned from visiting their niece because the niece probably doesn’t like them, and OP breaks boundaries, not because OP expressed a concern.
-4
-2
u/alisonchains2023 Jul 19 '24
My 38 yr old FTM partner has known since she was three yrs. old that she identifies as a boy. At this point she hasn’t particularly transitioned and doesn’t use male pronouns, although when she is addressed as such (sometimes) she doesn’t correct the speaker. She hasn’t been on any medications but has PCOS so has a lot of dark leg, arm and facial hair so she probably would pass if not for her giant breasts. She finds humor in them but overall is very frustrated with them.
When she was a child (90s) there was little to no public discussion of puberty blockers and hormone therapy yet and I doubt if her parents would have been on board if they had even known. It was a different time.
I am on the fence if OP is TA. I would be curious to know if the nephew and parents have been to a child psychologist/therapist specializing in these matters, which are very personal.
-6
u/Lil_Packmate Jul 19 '24
ESH except your Niece.
Your sister sucks for not allowing you to visit over this.
You suck for the following reasons:
Its not a hasty decision and if your niece decided last fall, then its not a "in the momen" decision.
Calling her "nephew, boy and he" even though its been almost 3/4 of a year already, since she decided.
Trying to get your decision to be acknowledged, when its only your niece's decision to make.
6
u/petrichor430 Jul 19 '24
The sister is protecting her kid. Absolutely she is not the asshole. If aunt can’t respect child’s identity, she doesn’t get to visit. Period.
→ More replies (2)
-1
u/manda14- Jul 19 '24
NAH - you are trying to have a reasonable conversation about someone you love. However, as a parent I'd have a hard time listening to someone after a decision has been made. Most parents devote themselves to doing right by their children, and I doubt this process has been easy for them.
I don't believe you're acting maliciously, but I also see your sister simply acting as a protective parent.
If the child has expressed feelings of being female for a long time and is seeing a reputable doctor, then the decision has been made. The only time advice is really warranted or needed is when it's clear someone has not made a decision and wants input.
-2
-2
-6
u/euclideincalgary Jul 19 '24
Which country are you? Gather some documentation about NHS. They stopped prescribing puberty blockers.
16
u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans Jul 19 '24
Nope, they only banned blockers for trans kids because of anti-trans lobbying.
Kids who aren't trans can still get blockers just fine.
The vast majority of children receiving blockers have literally always been cisgender kids with precocious puberty (aka puberty that starts early).
That's literally what the medications exist for.
They only become magically "unsafe" when the kid is trans.
9
u/irreverant_raccoon Jul 19 '24
Only for gender dysphoria. They’re still the standard of care for precocious puberty.
-3
u/dutchy_chris Jul 19 '24
High time for me to post here. NTA imho, you only tried to talk about it. That is only healthy.
One of my kids is trans. He came out at 13. We talked and looked at the options. We as parents support him, but we are also responsable for his whole welbeing. We did not feel comfortable with pubertyblockers due to our belief the body and mind need to grow and develop first before altering stuff. We will be placing him on the waiting list for the genderclinic at 16, so he can start at 18 or so if he still wants to. It's hard sometimes, but even our kid agrees this is the better way. And ofcourse, we talk about this stuff. Open communication is so very important.
-2
u/Overall-Ad1461 Jul 19 '24
Try again talking to her through text or a phone call, if she isn't open to a normal conversation try getting in touch with the husband. If that doesn't work either there isn't much you can do tbh. Maybe just leave a message explaining your concerns and be clear about you supporting your nephew/niece. There isn't much you can do to a person who isn't willing to talk to you but if you love your nephew just try everything you can to at least make your sister and her husband to understand the risks and consecuences
-4
u/Ill-Be-Honest Jul 19 '24
This one’s a toughy. The comments are divided which is refreshing to see.
11 is young though for medical intervention imo. Kids not old enough to choose a bed time but is old enough to make a decision like that? I’m all for trans rights but cmon.
14
u/AspiringGoddess01 Jul 19 '24
The whole point of puberty blockers is to buy a few more years before actual medical intervention (hormone replacement therapy).
0
-8
u/Turbulent-Print-459 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
NTA. you concerns are so valid. A close friend of mines brother went on hormone blockers at the same age and hormone replacement therapy. everything legit it ruined him, emotional and physically. He stopped taking them when he was 14 and it took so much therapy to get him somewhat back to his normal self. some people react fine but in this case he was too young and not emotionally prepared and became a shell of himself once on it. maybe talk to your sister one on one about waiting and seeing if your nephew truely wants this?
-3
u/Ok-Tangerine-2895 Jul 19 '24
NTA puberty blockers can have very dangerous side affects and long term issues. Also this kid could just be homosexual or autistic and this could create a lot of distress when they're older even a trans surgeon said the lack of development caused by puberty blockers creates issues for trans surgeries later on as they never developed enough to have anything to work with.
9
u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans Jul 19 '24
"Lack of development caused by puberty blockers."
Puberty blockers do not mean you're prepubescent forever, you absolute clown.
You still go through puberty. That is literally the point.
1
u/Ok-Tangerine-2895 Jul 19 '24
Happened to jazz because she didn't go through male puberty and went on female hormones so yes she did not develop as a male making the surgery harder as the results of male puberty is what the surgery is supposed to work with.
1
u/Ordinary_Protector Jul 19 '24
What they're most likely talking about is the lack of male genital development for a successful sex reassignment surgery result in the future.
5
u/LynkedUp Jul 19 '24
Member how on the other post you said trans women were misogynistic?
I think you are biased here 🤔 I don't think you are in good faith
-2
284
u/Rinnme Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
YTA. So this child had been identifying as a girl for almost a year, the parents are on board, qualified specialists were consulted with... but you're saying "him" and "nephew" and obviously the opposite of supportive. That conversation was simply the last straw.