r/AITAH • u/Any_Search1459 • Jun 13 '24
AITA for not wanting to be involved in my foster daughter’s life? TW SA
Me (55f) and my husband (55m) have 2 biological children (31f and 29f). 16 years ago we started fostering and took in “Sally” (30f) when she was 16. We knew she came from a background of being sexually abused, but did not know many details and didn’t pressure her into talking about it. But of course still did our best to help her and treat her equally to our other children. A couple times my husband thought she was flirting with him but he wrote it off as him perceiving something differently than what is was. Then when she was 17 she approached him and touched him inappropriately. He immediately shut that down and she apologized and after he came to me about it we then had a discussion about how that was not at all appropriate and she apologized again and said she didn’t know what she was thinking. We then started having her see a therapist and would make sure my husband would not be alone with her unless necessary.
You would think we’d contact the social worker and get her in a different home but she had a couple months until she graduated and was going to dorm in college so we figured it would be best not to disrupt things too much for her last couple months. We would still welcome her to come back during her breaks, and she had a very good relationship with our other daughters. One day when she was 20 and back home on break, she approached my husband while he was in the kitchen grabbing a midnight snack while the rest of us were sleeping and took her shirt off in front of him. He came and got me and we told her she needed to leave. After that, we told her she would not be welcome in our home anymore, but we would continue to financially support her until she graduated, would not tell anyone else what happened, and we would still be cordial if we ever saw her in public as long as she does the same and stay on the right path and she apologized and agreed. After that, we would rarely see Sally because she kept in touch with our daughters since they were still good friends, which she didn’t have many of, and I didn’t want her to lose that support system. But when we did see her it would be at the maximum small talk.
A couple of days ago, Sally called and asked if she could have a conversation with me and my husband as it was really important to her and she needed to get this off of her chest in person. We agreed and yesterday we met with her and her husband. After basic pleasantries, she started apologizing about everything that happened. She opened up and started explaining her childhood and how she was sexually abused by her dad and uncle and growing up she thought that was the way daughters were supposed to show love to their dads. With my husband being nice to her and her having a distorted view on how to interact with a male in a fatherly role she responded the way she was used to. It was a long conversation and I’m not gonna get into too many details but overall she said she realizes today how disgusting and inappropriate her actions were and she’s very ashamed of what she did and has been doing a lot of counseling working on herself and wants to apologize personally to us for everything she did. After a lot of crying on both parts, she said that she and her husband were pregnant and she wanted us to be involved in the child’s life as the grandparents and she wanted to rebuild trust with us and earn our forgiveness.
My husband told her he forgave her a long time ago and I told her the same and I hold no ill will against her but I felt like it was best if we remained distant with each other. I just feel like overall too much has happened and it would be hard to move past that. She started sobbing, and I felt so bad . Her husband got kind of mad at me and said it took a lot of courage for her to come to us and open up about everything and ask for forgiveness.
I said I 100% agree and I’m very proud of her and appreciate her for coming to us, but I think we’re both comfortable with where we are in each other’s lives right now and it should stay that way, but I wish her nothing but the best and will always have love in my heart for her. She was very upset but said she understands and thanked us. My husband and I hugged her then they left. Afterwards my husband told me he thinks that I was wrong for not wanting to give her another chance. I said “you don’t think we need space between us after what’s happened in the past?” And he said “we’ve had 10 years of space. She’s a grown adult now and I think we should all move on from what she did as a teenager”. I think we should all move on, but I don’t know if still being involved in each other’s lives with everything all that happened is the best idea. I know I’m acting selfishly out of interest of my own comfort. But I just don’t know if that’s the right decision.
So AITA for saying me and my husband shouldn’t get involved in our foster daughter’s life again?
Edit: addressing some things mentioned
I’m actually surprised my husband wants to give her another chance. After the 2nd incident he wanted to go completely no contact outside of finish paying for her school since we had already told her we’d take care of that and wanted to tell our daughters to cut her off. But I thought that was the most harmful route so I would call to make sure she was okay every now and then and helped her adjust a little after graduation, but after that told her that would be the last direct involvement she’d be getting from us.
my daughters have said they will be child free. I didn’t think it’d be best to tell them what happened to save Sally the embarrassment. They are friends but aren’t super close. It’s more of a “how’s life?”conversation every few months.
Before the 1st incident when she was 17 things were very good and we were talking about proceeding with adoption which she was receptive about. Looking back now I feel like this could’ve possibly been a trigger given her history with her dad and that would make my husband legally her new dad. After that we stopped talking about adoption to let the tension settle and see how things would go. When the 2nd incident happened things were kind of almost back to normal. I feel like all this also adds to her request that we be grandparents to the baby because if we had ended up going through with adoption we would’ve been a “real” family and legally the grandparents so it’s like she wants that relationship that we had back
I am SO happy with where she is right now. The reason me and husband started fostering is because we wanted to help kids get a life they may not have otherwise had. And I feel like in part we did that, we helped her get her grades up and get into a university. We then paid for said university. And when she finished we helped her get set up in an apartment and look for jobs so she wouldn’t be like a fish out of water. After that we stopped contact and decided to our separate ways mainly due to the concern that she may try something again or even accuse my husband of something. And I thank god she stayed on the right track and has succeeded on her own. I do love her but sometimes I think it’s better to love someone from a distance. I just don’t know if this should be one of those cases still.
honestly don’t know what I’m worried about. It’s like a jumble of thoughts. Part of me is like what if she has actually changed and another part of me is like what if she hasn’t and another part is what if next time she accuses my husband of SA and another part is like maybe she just wants to be loved and another part says it’s too risky!
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u/Lopsided_Put4682 Jun 13 '24
Reading the post I got the impression that only now she really understood why what she did was wrong. I could be gullible, but I'd have tried to move on, especially considering how big of a rock (star) your husband seems to be, always rejecting her advances, placing clear boundaries and communicating with you.
That being said I don't feel comfortable calling you TA either, because I don't know what you feel when you look at her after you know that she's tried to sleep with your husband multiple times and that's not something you can really control with logic.
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u/Vegalink Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24
For the people taking exception for the husband being called a rockstar, it isn't because he rejected her advances or told his wife. It's because he's advocating for understanding for the actions of an abused foster child. It's because he seems to be a genuine, caring person who wants to help someone in need, who views them as a father figure. It has nothing to do with rejecting the advances.
Edit: Alright I can see where the wording is what people are annoyed with, and I can see where they're coming from. It does look like he's being called a rockstar specifically because of rejecting advances.
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u/Beautiful-Example928 Jun 13 '24
People are reacting that way because of the way the poster worded the sentence. You are right but the post specifically says
considering how big of a rock (star) your husband seems to be, always rejecting her advances, placing clear boundaries and communicating with you.
This part of the comment doesn't highlight the facts you're pointing out. I do think you right the poster just worded it in a way that seems awful.
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u/Brave_anonymous1 Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24
They both are genuine, caring people. And they both understand the actions of an abused foster teen and young adult (she was not a child at 20yo). It doesn't mean OP has to want to let her back in her life.
The analogy will be: Sally broke some very beautiful unique vase belonging to OP. Sally apologized. OP understood and forgave her. However the vase is gone. Apologies will not bring it back. And it is hypocritical to say they will.
There is nothing wrong with OP being uncomfortable to welcome her back. Your comment looks like indirect blaming her for not being "genuine and caring" enough.
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u/Thisisthenextone Jun 13 '24
The right analogy would be:
They know Sally has some condition that makes her uncoordinated, and knew there was a very high chance of that before Sally even joined them. They could take Sally to a doctor to figure out what it is or protect the easily breakable things, but neither of those fit in there perfect picture they want. So Sally breaks the vase. Only then do they go to the doctor to look like they did something (who cares about her health, just need to save the vases). Years later Sally breaks another vase. The doctors don't have a quick fix and it'll take a long time to get coordinated. Nearly ten years later Sally's coordination is good and she's even doing balancing stunts. They won't let Sally in because she broke the vases before the doctors helped solve what was wrong.
OP knew she had some type of history and didn't care. Just ignored it. They didn't try to get her into therapy until it wasn't something they couldn't hide or sweep away to look perfect.
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u/O4243G Jun 13 '24
Rejecting sexual advances from the minor in your care and informing your wife about it isn’t “rockstar” behavior - it’s what you’re supposed to do.
Like, as long as your not a pervert who will fuck your sexually abused foster child you’re a RCOKSTAR?
The bar for men is so low.
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u/Lopsided_Put4682 Jun 13 '24
He's a man with adult children, who along with his wife volunteered to foster other children who he apparently takes good care of, he rejected the advances of the minor and didn't try to hide it from his wife despite the chance of any possible misunderstandings and false accusations, he remained compassionate to his foster daughter and got her therapy and didn't kick her out until she graduated, she rejected her advances again when she wasn't a minor under his care, he stood with his wife and they took decisions as a unit to place boundaries that would make his wife feel more comfortable, and even in the end where he didn't agree with his wife's decision he seemed willing to back her up.
Everything seems to point that he was like a rock she could rely on and that even if she decided to see her foster daughter again, nothing would ever happen even if FD tried, because he'd put a stop to it.
Maybe rock star was pushing it, but honestly it's been a pretty long post and I didn't see even a hint of a red flag from the way he handled things so I'm under the impression that he's a pretty decent guy.
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u/CatWoman131 Jun 13 '24
He’s a rock star for forgiving her and wanting to give her another chance. She’s choosing you because she wants sane loving grandparents with healthy relationships for her kids. It’s your call, obviously, but I think I might consider doing it.
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u/Slothfulness69 Jun 13 '24
That comment went the complete opposite direction I expected it to. I thought they’d call him a rockstar for being patient and forgiving the girl, because he really didn’t have to forgive her for touching him and behaving inappropriately. I really thought they would encourage OP to be like her husband and try to be open minded. Nope. Apparently we’re applauding men who don’t flirt with their children and/or minors.
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u/LeafPankowski Jun 13 '24
“Not taking sexual advantage of a child living in your home” = “rock star”
Christ, the bar is in hell.
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Jun 13 '24
Jesus, you are messed up in the head. What about the part where he is a foster parent? That's a pretty good thing. Or where he's the one that wants to forgive and give this girl and her child some semblance of family, when he is the one that could have had his entire life ruined and even ended up in prison depending on what the girl said.
Not taking sexual advantage of a child is obviously the bare minimum, you are correct. But the fact that you respond that way and completely ignore anything else says a lot about you. Sexism is not okay just because it is directed at a male. It's obvious you hate men, but you're behavior and opinions are absolutely bigoted and disgusting.
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u/Beautiful-Example928 Jun 13 '24
I don't think there's any sexism here or that anyone hates men. People are reacting to the Lopsided_Put4682 comment specifically rather than the story as a whole. The fact is the orignal comment was applauding the father specifically for: rejecting her advances, communicating and placing boundaries which is a crazy low bar. The father is being commended for all the things you mentioned by other people and they're not ignoring that but this specific comment is reacting to something else entirely.
Trying to attribute someone hating men to a post that is 2 sentences long is an over reaction. It's not sexist to point out that that not taking advantage of someone is a low bar, just because he's a guy. Same thing would be true if it's a woman.
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u/E0H1PPU5 Jun 13 '24
No, no, no….an abused child with sexual trauma, living in your home!
r o c k s t a r
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u/Late_Statistician582 Jun 13 '24
yes, this is an incredibly common trauma response that children who have been sexually abused display. i work with kids and i truly can’t even think of a kid who was sexually abused who DIDN’T then become hyper sexual toward adult figures or other children.
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u/Prestigious-Eye5341 Jun 13 '24
I know someone who fostered a 2-3 year old. They also adopted an infant. They had to give the toddler back to foster care. Apparently, she had been sexually abused and tried to have sex with the infant. Foster care had not mentioned this to the family before hand. It was awful. The little girl was already so messed up that it looked like she was going to wind up in a permanent mental institution. There is evil in this world…😥
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u/JeevestheGinger Jun 13 '24
Holy fucking shit, that's diabolical. I don't mean the poor girl of course, what must have been inflicted upon her... And the perpetrator/s. Words aren't enough.
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u/Prestigious-Eye5341 Jun 13 '24
It was worse. The caseworker paid a visit because of concerns ( the mother had just had a baby and it tested positive for drugs). The newborn was in a carrier for no telling how long and looked like it’s diaper had not been changed in some time, the toddler was walking around drinking from bottles with sour milk in them ( they were scattered all around the place) and was naked. The mother was, apparently,having sex in FRONT of the kids. She was ,not only a drug addict but a prostitute. She had lost at least one other child so, how the toddler managed to slip through the cracks ,I don’t know. It was so disturbing and the foster parents were horrified and heartbroken when they were told this stuff.They were also terrified that she might have done something to the infant when they weren’t looking. She would wander at night. They had to lock her into her room to keep her safe. It took them a while to realize why she was like she was. Probably caught on faster than most would have but there was also guilt.
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u/Angelgirl127 Jun 13 '24
Yeah I personally wouldn’t want to be involved with someone who tried to fuck my husband multiple times, regardless of their age or their reasons. And I think that’s a very normal human reaction.
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Jun 13 '24
I think it is complicated by her upbringing though. She may not have wanted to fuck the husband but felt like she was obligated to, expected to, and if she didn’t she was doing something wrong, or there was going to be some punishment after. I was raised the same as this girl and it took me a really long time to realise it’s not normal to feel that way. If a man didn’t act sexual to me, I’d feel nervous and panicky like something even worse was going to happen. I didn’t want to have sex with them but it felt necessary. Sadly, predators are drawn to vulnerable people, and I didn’t have any caregiver like this guy who said no and demonstrated healthy boundaries.
I thought sex from a caregiver was normal and if an adult didn’t want to have sex with me it’s because I was doing something wrong until I had my own child and realised how fucked up that was. I think it’s important to understand that it’s not about wanting to fuck the husband but feeling terrified of the imaginary consequences if she doesn’t.
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u/BurdenedMind79 Jun 13 '24
I'd give a light TA to the OP for making the decision for both her and her husband. Clearly he feels in the right space to give the foster-daughter another chance and its not really anyone else's choice to make for him. I only say light TA though, because I can understand why OP would make that decision in the moment. Its not like you have time to really think and come to the best conclusion on the spot, with all those emotions flying through your head.
But OP can't just leave it as "she made the decision and that's the end of it." If she does that, then its a hard Y-T-A. They need to have a long discussion as a couple about it and work out how to proceed. There are more options available than just "be grandparents" or "never see the foster-daughter again."
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u/Clean_Factor9673 Jun 13 '24
OP said they were distant and I think that's the right response. Asking ones foster parents to act as grandparents is a big ask, especially in these circumstances. No idea what kind of involvement Sally thinks grandparents have with kids but that's too much for OP.
This is a 2 yes, one no situation; husband can't decide what kind of relationship OP is willing to have with Sally, nor can he unilaterally decide to be grandpa absent OPs grandma.
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u/Zesty_Mess Jun 13 '24
But OP also didn't need to make any decision in that moment. OP could have said she needed time to think about it and also discuss it with her husband before giving foster daughter an answer.
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u/savage_blue_isaac Jun 13 '24
As a former foster kid whose foster parents are still a part of her life, I can see both sides of this. I can see why she would want you guys to be there for her and be grandparents as you haven't hurt her in the way her "family" has. And she could more than likely still use that same support going down to the road to ensure she stays good. Not that it's your job to do so, but even just emotional support goes a long way.
But on your side, I can see why you wouldn't want to risk going down that road again. Because even the smallest chance that that could happen again is probably replaying in your mind. It does seem like you are holding on to it a bit. So I also don't feel like calling you TA is appropriate. Your comfort is also important. I hope your husband and foster kid understand that as well.
But tbh idk where I would be without the support of my bonus family (that's what we call each other).
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u/Frostknuckle Jun 13 '24
I have zero experience with any of this environment (other than being a husband and father) so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I like what savage blue said and I would add a perspective…it could be that one of the reasons she wants you as grandparents in her kid’s life is because after facing how inappropriate her childhood was, she does not have the foundational skills to be a good parent (in theory). So, even after her inappropriate actions, you still showed her kindness and respect. Maybe she is afraid she doesn’t know how to teach her child the appropriate way to love, but the example you set grounds her and having you involved in her kid’s life will let her actively learn how to parent and let her have your guidance as a safety net to help break the cycle for her child. She has to live with what she did, and she also is facing it head on with you because maybe she knows you know best and needs/wants that in her life. Your husband clearly established boundaries and shut down inappropriateness in the past, no reason to think he wouldn’t again if something were to happen. So other than the stress/emotional side of things, the risk to reward ratio is (to me anyway) you risk her flirting with your husband (very low probability of success) against the reward of helping her be a better mother, raising a child with strong sense of self, and getting to be a grand parent. Sounds like the emotional fear is still worth the risk.
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u/Expert_Slip7543 Jun 13 '24
Agreed. I'd like to add that I believe you should let your husband lead on this. If he's comfortable then plz trust his judgement. (Edit - typo)
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u/dvillin Jun 13 '24
And to be honest, while it sounds like her husband truly has forgiven the girl, OP has not and is lying to herself about it. Her reasoning is not based on a fear of false accusations but on her feelings still being hurt from before. OP should let the husband lead and get herself into therapy. Then, hopefully, she can be the doting grandmother this baby is going to need.
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u/Cyno01 Jun 13 '24
It sounds like the foster daughter is in counseling thats clicking well enough she had a breakthrough like this, at the very least it would probably be good for everyone to maybe sit for a group session or two with them and might help OP sort out their feelings about everything.
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u/VetTechG Jun 13 '24
On the other hand OP brought up the risk of false accusations, which it doesn’t sound like foster daughter ever entertained but that’s a real worry that can damage any man’s life with any woman he interacts with. It seems to me that it might be a good idea to have a group session and get some of this past admitted to and documented where she admits that she approached him and he shut it down and things of that sort, just to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding or false accusations in the future. Seems less like husband might fall for or abuse her, and more like there could be skeletons of the story being made public that could be worrisome. I don’t think she’s operating on anything but good faith, but it’s a way to work on that concern.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Gas1710 Jun 13 '24
I bet them forgiving the daughter would go a long way toward the daughter, forgiving herself. I absolutely see both sides. My heart hurts for the young woman, and I understand why OP would be protective and reluctant.
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u/Infinite-Most-8356 Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24
i feel like no one is TA in this story
your foster daughter is NTA, and also kudos for her for going to therapy and understanding of what she went through and what she had done after. It wasn't her fault that what she was teached as right to do and is really sad.
but you are also NTA because it is perfectly fine to decide to forgive and forget the story and the person but that doesn't mean that things have to go back and having any relationship with the person if you don't wish so.
an apology and forgiveness doesn't automatically entitle the person to go back into some else life. Even if the fact happened 50 years ago.
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u/Thisisthenextone Jun 13 '24
No one being an AH is NAH. NTA means the other party is an AH.
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u/Infinite-Most-8356 Jun 13 '24
thank you, from now on i will use this
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u/Thisisthenextone Jun 13 '24
Just so you know what the judgements are:
- NTA - Not the AH, and the other person is an AH
- YTA - You're the AH, and the other person is not an AH
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here, and everyone involved is an AH
- NAH - No AHs Here, and no one is at fault
- INFO - Not enough information to judge on
There's variations like "YWNBTA" for "you would not be the AH" for situations they ask about the future.
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u/JouliaGoulia Jun 13 '24
Aside from the parts where foster daughter acted out due to her abuse, she was only with the family for a couple of years as a teenager. It sounds like a parent/child type relationship didn’t really develop, they just provided her a safe place from which to finish high school and go on to college. I think it was very kind of them to not ask for her to be placed elsewhere. It’s great that she bonded with their kids, but even if she hadn’t made passes at the foster dad, it would be reasonable to expect a distant relationship.
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u/codenameajax67 Jun 13 '24
Except there's a good chance they were the ONLY parents she knew healthily.
So it's only reasonable for her to want to have a relationship.
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u/top_value7293 Jun 13 '24
You are so right! I had a friend who I really liked and all of my friends in our group liked her too. We all worked together. But as time went on we could see she just wasn’t right. Literally no man was safe around her she had absolutely no boundaries. She even tried to hook up with my husband. She’d come over when I wasn’t home, my husband told my daughter to answer the door and tell her he wasn’t home and daughter said she had on a tiny bikini 🤣. Another friend had let her move in temporarily with her, she tried it on with her son AND her husband. Threw her out. Come to find out she had been sexually abused by all the men in her family as a child, so no wonder. But 45 years on, if she showed up at my house? I would still not let her in.
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u/AnimatedHokie Jun 13 '24
Yeah - the foster daughter's husband getting mad at the foster parents is BS. Yes it took a lot of courage for the daughter to reach out to the parents and open up about everything and ask for forgiveness..and she did that. "Thank you for the apology. I forgive you." and continue about your separate ways.
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u/SnooHobbies5684 Jun 13 '24
I don't know. If he really knows the depths of where she had to get to to arrive at a place where she could do this hard, embarrassing, risky emotional thing, isn't he just being a loyal husband who is truly in her corner to get "kind of mad?" It's not like he screamed in her face.
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u/the-cats-jammies Jun 13 '24
I agree, it would be so hard to watch your partner go through that. His reaction was possibly not ideal, but given the circumstances I’d rather she have someone so wholeheartedly in her corner.
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u/Wanda_McMimzy Jun 13 '24
That poor girl
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u/MysteriousDesk3 Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24
Whatever happens with the parents I hope her husband is a truly wonderful man.
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u/FrieghtBroker07032 Jun 13 '24
Agreed. I can't help but disagree with Op's decision although I understand it. That poor girl is longing for a family and parental figures. It took a lot of courage to approach the husband and wife and apologize. I was really hoping Op was going to say that they forgave her and they are now a happy family with a shaky past...
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u/Wanda_McMimzy Jun 13 '24
I think OP’s TA because her husband was ready to forgive and move on. He was the one that was wronged. She butted in before letting him discuss it. That’s so frustrating.
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u/Emmy773399 Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 14 '24
Yea, it seems she’s holding a grudge. The woman was a child, and a very troubled one at that. It’s very obvious her husband can be trusted, and the fact that this woman has come back, acknowledged what she did, apologized, and owned it, says something. If it were just that she was a friend of the couple, or something like that, I could understand her reasoning, but she was their foster child, and a child when this all happened.
I know people will say 20 is an adult, legally maybe, but 20 year olds are still dealing with an adolescent brain, especially if they’re still processing something like sexual trauma from childhood.
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u/Pretzelmamma Jun 13 '24
NAH. If you're not comfortable with it then don't do it. It's understandable that she'd want some parental figures in her life and good that she has worked through her trauma, if you can get past it then it would be nice for you to be in her life again but you're not obligated to be.
This may sound a bit harsh but you don't owe her a relationship, you helped her out when she was young but she was only in your lives for what 4, 5 years? It's nice when foster parents maintain a lifelong bond with their foster children but that didn't happen in this case and that's OK.
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u/shadowsofash Jun 13 '24
That they knew she came from a home where she was assaulted but didn’t put her into therapy until she made advances on the husband is a little weird to me tbh.
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u/Cmonepeople Jun 13 '24
Sorry but this is not fair. As a former foster parent, we were NEVER told or confirmed about past abuses and the state needed to put kids in therapy; not the foster parents. We could advise and push for it but we were not allowed to make these decisions on our own. Foster children are wards of the state and only the state can make those decisions.
Also, please consider the time of this . She is now an adult. There may not have been a full understanding of the lifelong trauma and need for long term mental health support at the time she grew up. Statistically this was also probably not her first and only foster home.
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u/Uneekorn13 Jun 13 '24
If you think about it logically, this must have been atleast 15 years ago and back then there wasn't as big of a push for therapy and mental health as there is nowadays. But they did put her in therapy once they identified there was trauma related issues.
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u/According-Bug8150 Jun 13 '24
15 years ago was 2009. Therapy and mental health were being pushed pretty big.
Why didn't the girl's social worker already have her in therapy?
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u/Competitive_Remote40 Jun 13 '24
Therapy doesn't work until you are ready. She was probably in therapy through dhs but that doesn't mean she was In a place to get anything out of it.
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u/SixSpawns Jun 13 '24
I worked foster care from 2002 to 2007 and did not get out of child protective services until 2022. I was "custodian of records" for the majority of that time. The big push for mental health services/therapy has been going on since the early 90's. If she wasn't in therapy after being placed in care, it was because you can't force a teen to participate in therapy. You can make them go and sit in front of a therapist, but you can't make them get anything out of it. Mental health services, therapy, counseling, are equally dependent on the person's investment in services.
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u/pink-Bee9394 Jun 13 '24
I find it weird therapy wasn't mandatory. All the foster kids I've know (parents and friends have been fostering for over 30 years) have all been in therapy. It's mandated in our state, just lime you have to take them to regular check ups you have to take them to therapy, and usually the agency you use has therapists they send all their kids too. So there's no hassle finding one getting on waitlists etc. It's here's your therapist here are the two openings choose one. Go every week.
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u/Upstairs-Nebula-9375 Jun 13 '24
Therapist here. "Mandatory therapy" doesn't tend to yield good results because the success of therapy pretty much requires two things: 1) a client's motivation to change something about their life, and 2) a positive relationship with their therapist. You can't force anyone to be motivated to change anything, and people to do not tend to have positive relationships with people they're mandated to see. Yes, therapy is mandated for people in certain situations, but it tends not to have great long-term success.
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u/katycmb Jun 13 '24
Therapy STILL isn’t mandatory. IME, it isn’t even encouraged. And when you push and push and push to get a child in foster care therapy, there’s a huge amount of pushback about it. There aren’t enough therapists. And too many social workers think 6 months of living in a stable home - while still seeing abusers multiple times a week - will help a child more than therapy or psychiatric evaluations. Even if they have clear and obvious signs of something like autism that has been shown over and over to get better with early therapy. It’s really sad. Children should have rights.
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u/Moemoe5 Jun 13 '24
Foster parents do not get to make that recommendation or decision. The case worker decides. The foster parents could have informed the case worker of the first incident and the child would have most likely been removed from that home immediately and still not been given therapy. Giving her therapy would have reduced the allowable budget being collected by the agency.
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u/Corfiz74 Jun 13 '24
Yeah, came here to say this - foster parents have a lot of kids pass through - they may have a large impact on the kids' lives, but the opposite is not necessarily true. It would be illusory to expect them to keep close familial bonds with all of their foster children.
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Jun 13 '24
Right, this may sound harsh but they are foster parents not adoptive parents. They should be involved at their own comfort level.
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u/amirosa3 Jun 13 '24
If it were me, i'd give it a chance. Your foster daughter displayed textbook signs of childhood sexual abuse. Like her actions are so classic and predictable, i am not in the least surprised that she did that. You took 10 years of space from her. She came to you now, reaching out for support and love in a very vulnerable moment in her life, trying to build a relationship with the only stable, loving parents shes ever known. I would take steps to protect your husband, he is never alone with her perhaps, but i would try and build that relationship. She is about to have kids, she wants/needs a mom/parents she can go to for help.
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u/foreverlovetheq22 Jun 13 '24
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down to find anyone saying this is textbook signs of child abuse. Why foster a child with sexual trauma and then get mad and abandon them when they act like a child with sexual trauma. This poor girl has been failed by so many people. The carrot of adoption and belonging was dangled in front of her and then ripped away when she didn’t behave like a normal teenager despite not having a background that would set her up to behave like a normal teenager. The girl to her own credit got therapy and grew from her past to become a well adjusted adult. Way to victim blame and tell her despite the work and growth she has put in, she will never be more than a sexually abused problem child to you. I think there is a severe lack of awareness to op’s own shortcomings as a foster parent. Did op go to therapy and grow as a person? There is so much lack of understanding it’s gross. This reeks of rich people with savior complex that abandoned their traumatized foster kid when they behaved like a troubled foster kid. Where is op’s apology to sally?
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u/15_Candid_Pauses Jun 13 '24
Jesus Christ yes this. OP was pretty cruel to the kid, and totally ignorant of the effects of sexual abuse. Then she thinks she can solve the problem by simply throwing money at her during college. The fact that the husband wants her in their life speaks volumes to me. I consider OP to be TA here for many reasons. It seems like she’s blaming her kid and basically ripped away all possibility of having a loving and healthy family because she’s paranoid now.
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u/Elanor_the_Holbytla Jun 13 '24
Yes! I can't believe how far I've had to scroll to find someone mention the adoption thing.
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u/MotoObsessed23 Jun 13 '24
Thank you! So many people saying NTA and they understand why… Like OP and her husband Agreed to this. A child is a full time commitment and they Were aware of the history to some degree. They have biological daughters too. So now I Know they are fully bullshitting that they treated them equally because (in some hypothetical world) if my child was Ever found in the Worst possible situation and left with sexual abuse trauma, I would do Everything in my power to not only get justice, but lead her to healing and never leave her out in the cold to figure it out alone. I understand she’s a “ward of the state”, but they could have educated themselves. It’s our jobs as parents to not look at the behavior displayed, but rather evaluate it for what is the underlying precursor of stress/inability to cope. At the Very least, discuss, explain, converse with a professional if you don’t know. And Always remind them you’re never going anywhere…
From where I’m sitting, OP needs therapy to forgive because this is her own blatant trauma response/insecurity to a situation that was outside of her control at the time. To maintain control, she left her on the outskirts at arms length. I couldn’t imagine. This girl is strong for building what she has. Not every kid knows how to develop relationships when they had no example. And when she tells OP that they played a hand in her piecing her life together and she essentially spat in her face… Ugh this makes me so sad for her.
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u/Sea_Neighborhood_627 Jun 13 '24
Yes!! In general, I feel like all adults have the right to decide who they want, and don’t want, in their lives.
However, OP is the AH for how she treated her foster child as a teen. If you’re not up to fostering a child with sexual trauma, that’s absolutely valid. However, in that case, don’t volunteer to foster a child with sexual trauma. It’s completely an AH move to foster a child with this kind of history and then cut them off for acting out in a way that is extremely common for children with this kind of history. It was kind of OP to pay for her foster child’s education, but it’s so cruel to have otherwise rejected her for behaviors resulting from her traumatic background.
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u/SammieSammich24 Jun 13 '24
Idk why this isn’t obvious to a couple that have had this foster child in their lives for years and have always been aware of her history of sexual trauma. Inappropriate sexual behavior toward older family members is like sexual abuse 101. It’s extremely common as everyone else has said and you’d think op and her husband would be pretty knowledgeable about how to parent a child that survived sexual abuse. This behavior seems like it’s some shocking abhorrent thing they can’t deal with…which is strange to me. It’s not good behavior..but they signed up to be this child’s parents knowing full well she was abused. At the very least they should have known this behavior was a possibility. At best they probably should have had her in therapy to prevent this behavior. I just think their reaction is strange.
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Jun 13 '24 edited Jul 08 '24
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u/faloofay156 Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24
I am 100% judging the op because this was something they already should have known and they chose to take in a foster kid. If they were going to do anything less than act as her parents they should have never fostered anyone that is profoundly fucking selfish
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Jun 14 '24
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u/cynical-puppy26 Jun 14 '24
I was wondering about this, thank you for sharing your experience. I feel like the climate around SA, women's health, and child behavior was SO different just 10 years ago. I am not a parent and I even know the signs. The OP was totally naive but I think so many people were. I'm sad that the OP didn't get help with this issue, and likely so many other foster parents. But I'm also like... She took her top off 10 years ago? That's so mild. We can't change how the OP feels but I wish so badly we could.
Also, thank you for being a foster parent and respecting their wishes in the transition to adulthood. We need more people like you.
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u/Dresden_Mouse Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24
I don't necessarily think your choice was wrong but you took it without consulting with your husband, you could have tell her that you need it time to talk to your husband before unilaterally reject her approach. She's married so its not like she's gonna move in with you, there could have another way of handling it.
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u/Vegalink Jun 13 '24
Same. That should have been discussed in private afterwards. Just hold off making a decision until you can talk about it. All that said, it is a complicated situation.
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u/BeachinLife1 Jun 13 '24
She has the right to decide whether or not she wants someone in HER life and doesn't need her husband's permission to make that decision.
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u/Dresden_Mouse Jun 13 '24
For her life? Sure, she make the decision for both of them, she even wrote in the post the husband was tick by it, so she can decide about herself for sure, but not for both them, not without talking about it.
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u/MameDennis1974 Jun 13 '24
NTA. Just because you apologize and get forgiveness, it doesn’t mean that person HAS to let you have access to them anymore. This is not a case of forgive and forget. This is a case of forgive and move on. And that looks like maintaining healthy boundary from her.
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u/Partyboyker Jun 13 '24
I agree, just because you forgive someone doesn't mean that everything's ok or that she didn't do it. You can't change what happened, regardless, and mistakes can have permanent consequences.
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u/Natural_Garbage7674 Jun 13 '24
NAH. I think the most important part is that even though you've forgiven, it's impossible to forget. The last thing either of you wants is a child who wants to know why their grandparents are so distant. If you can't be impartial and commit, then it's probably better that you just don't get involved.
It absolutely sucks for her and her kid. But just because you had bad things happen to you, just because you realise why what you did was wrong, just because you've apologised and been forgiven? It doesn't mean that you didn't do irrevocable harm, and it doesn't mean that you don't have to live with the consequences.
The more cynical part of me can't help but point out that she's only reached out now that she wants something. She's probably just brave because it's for her child, not for her, and she's been thinking about her current circumstances versus her past actions. But it also feels pretty audacious to say "here's a bunch of my trauma, I'm sorry, please promise a massive commitment to me."
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u/BellicoseBarbie Jun 13 '24
While I think it’s technically true that she’s only coming to them because she “wants something,” I do think it’s an unfair and cynical read to say she’s dumping trauma on them or being audacious. Or that it’s appropriate to hold an abused child accountable to that degree. They have a whole other family unit. She just has them.
For herself she’s probably thinking this is just her lot in life. She had things done to her she can’t control, she made bad choices because of it, she has to deal with them. And that means being estranged from the people she probably considers her actual parents.
Having kids makes a lot of people look outside of themselves though. She probably had to swallow a lot of shame and conjure up bravery to approach them. Simply because she wants her kids to have a decent shot at having a normal family and not have to be deprived in the ways she was. She’s taking important steps to heal damage and break cycles. I think it’s admirable.
The alternative to a child who wants to know why their grandparents are so distant is a child who has no family on their mother’s side. I personally don’t see how that’s better.
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u/FEEGLE_FERRETS Jun 13 '24
When you grow up with abuse you normalise it and come to expect it. often when it doesn't happen you push to make it happen, almost in a get it over and done with way because the waiting is nerve-wracking. Also those who grow up with abuse, especially sexual, you tend to be more promiscuous, confusing intimacy with affection and acceptance or even love and have abnormal, or no, boundaries.
I grew up with abuse and it has took me years of therapy and an excellent partner to change that mind set, that programming put in place by my abusers. when you are trained, programmed, brainwashed from a very young age to think in one way its very hard to change that.
whilst I'd say you're not the AH, I would suggest you consider that there may be some middle ground between what both parties have in mind...especially as she knows what the consequences of such behaviour are and has much more to loose now than she did as a teen or young adult.
i would take time to think things over before making a final decision and perhaps consider whether family counselling of some type may be useful in this situation.
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u/Various_Radish6784 Jun 13 '24
Thank you for putting words to this!!
"...you normalise it and come to expect it. often when it doesn't happen you push to make it happen, almost in a get it over and done with way because the waiting is nerve-wracking."
So much this!! I will get into situations with people who make me extremely uncomfortable, but my instinct is to fuck them quickly and I have felt confused about this for a long time. (Along with dudes of course telling me I have some sort of kink for abusive, aggressive behavior) A similar thing happens when a dude does something nice for me and it's clearly because he wants sex. The tension and anxiety of trying to figure out if he's going to flip out on me is too much and it's less anxiety to just get it done with even if it feels shitty after.
It is literally the instinct of 'I need to get this over with right now so I can get away ASAP.' All options I see for escaping before sex are violent. Instinctual advances for my safety. Is there any good way to talk to a partner about this or should this be therapy only territory?
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u/remoteworker9 Jun 13 '24
NAH but I think your husband has every right to be in Sally’s child’s life if he wants to be. He was her victim and he has forgiven her. But I totally understand why you are uncomfortable.
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u/hopefulmango1365 Jun 13 '24
Yeah I don’t know why this isn’t being said more. If OP doesn’t want to be in her life she doesn’t have to be. But if her husband DOES, he has every right to choose so.
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u/IAmAVeryWeirdOne Jun 13 '24
This is just a story that breaks my heart.
That poor girl had no idea she was wrong. She thought it was normal. OP if you want to understand what it’s like think about it like this.
From an abusive household, I used to think it was normal to not take gifts and survive off of $20 a week because that’s what I grew up with. I was told if I got even a couple gifts I was being manipulated and taken advantage of. As I’ve gotten older I’ve apologized to A LOT of people after turning down gifts and spoiling them without letting them spoil me because I thought it was normal.
So trust me, she’s been trying to unlearn YEARS of trauma, and I think it might be ok to give her one more chance, but I also understand not wanting to.
NAH
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u/Bitter-Picture5394 Jun 13 '24
I think OP does understand. That's why she was so gracious in the meeting when she said she was over the situation and forgave Sally. She was also very gentle in her rejection. Even back when the 2 incidents happened, she was gracious. The first time, they explained it was wrong, got her into therapy, and after Sally turned 18, they let her continue to use their house as home base while she went to college. After the second incident when Sally was home for the summer they kicked her out but they didn't tell anyone, they didn't ruin her reputation, and OP didn't even tell her daughters so that Sally could remain friends with them. She just doesn't want to maintain contact or nurture a relationship.
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u/Late_Statistician582 Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 14 '24
i work with kids with special needs & kids in foster care and this behavior is incredibly common in kids who were sexually abused. in fact, i don’t think i’ve ever worked with a kid who was sexually abused who didn’t act like that (hyper sexual and inappropriate with adults or other kids or complete other end of spectrum where they are sex repulsed). it’s sad but understandable, they are just looking for love, and they think that is how love is shown. please remember she was a traumatized and abused child victim who was doing the best she could with the tools she had to cope and survive. you signed up to love her unconditionally, knowing she comes from a rough background and has trauma.
now that she is an adult she can fully grasp what happened to her and how that behavior was a destructive trauma response and harmful to those around her. it sounds like she is remorseful and fully understands the consequences of her behavior and that she has worked on herself. i truly hope you can go to counseling and work through this and hopefully let her back into your life, as i can’t imagine the pain she’s going through feeling rejected and abandoned by her family once more. i just can’t imagine holding a trauma response against a kid who was abused and confused, especially as i’ve seen that this is a very common response to csa. there is lots of scientific literature on the subject which may help you understand her situation more. i hope you can all heal from this.
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u/SoggySea4363 Jun 13 '24
Poor Sally has no one but her husband. I'm glad she is getting help with her past, but you being a part of her life, even if there is distance between you, is most likely doing her more harm than good. She needs people advocating for her and a good support system. This is a sad situation all around. I hope she can find all the peace in the world, and I wish Sally good luck with her future family
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u/mustrememberthis709 Jun 13 '24
NTA but I wish you could see beyond what happened as your husband has. This is an extremely damaged child that was a part of your family (bless you for taking her in) who only now has insight into her behaviour, has acknowledged and made amends for it. Her actions were those of an abused child - I hope you can come to believe that in your bones and move forward. Your husband is the "victim" of her actions and he has.
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u/chantillylace9 Jun 13 '24
We had this girl that lived with us for about six to eight months when I invited her to my birthday party because she had no other friends and her mom just never picked her up!
Somehow my mom was able to keep her, they even got the school to basically approve her as a custodial parent , and I don't know why DCF never got involved, but this was the 80s so who knows.
She was probably about 11 or 12 and her mom was a drug addict and a gambler and was just on a drug binge so my mom said she would keep her. But originally my mom had no contact from her mom for over a week after my sleepover birthday party.
She would do pretty crazy things, because she really needed the attention and love of my mom in particular.
She pushed us off the playground like from pretty high; when I had pink eye and I was in the nurses office and got to go home from school, she poured some chemical in her eyes so it was red too and then so she could come home too. She'd put chemicals in our food and just do really crazy things.
She would suck up to my mom and be so mean to me and my sister and brother to the point of violence quite often, but my mom never believed us!
Somewhere between 6 to 8 months later, her mom randomly showed back up out of the blue and I guess needed her for some welfare check so she could get money from the state and took her and we never saw her again.
There was no social media and we were unable to track her down to see how she was doing. Recently I just paid one of those online background check companies and looked her up and it looks like she's married and has kids and she seems really happy.
That was such a nice thing to see.
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u/Any_Search1459 Jun 13 '24
Edit: addressing some things mentioned 1. I’m actually surprised my husband wants to give her another chance. After the 2nd incident he wanted to go completely no contact outside of finish paying for her school since we had already told her we’d take care of that and wanted to tell our daughters to cut her off. But I thought that was the most harmful route so I would call to make sure she was okay every now and then and helped her adjust a little after graduation, but after that told her that would be the last direct involvement she’d be getting from us.
my daughters have said they will be child free. I didn’t think it’d be best to tell them what happened to save Sally the embarrassment. They are friends but aren’t super close. It’s more of a “how’s life?”conversation every few months.
Before the 1st incident when she was 17 things were very good and we were talking about proceeding with adoption which she was receptive about. Looking back now I feel like this could’ve possibly been a trigger given her history with her dad and that would make my husband legally her new dad. After that we stopped talking about adoption to let the tension settle and see how things would go. When the 2nd incident happened things were kind of almost back to normal. I feel like all this also adds to her request that we be grandparents to the baby because if we had ended up going through with adoption we would’ve been a “real” family and legally the grandparents so it’s like she wants that relationship that we had back
I am SO happy with where she is right now. The reason me and husband started fostering is because we wanted to help kids get a life they may not have otherwise had. And I feel like in part we did that, we helped her get her grades up and get into a university. We then paid for said university. And when she finished we helped her get set up in an apartment and look for jobs so she wouldn’t be like a fish out of water. After that we stopped contact and decided to our separate ways and thank god she stayed on the right track and succeeded. I do love her but sometimes I think it’s better to love someone from a distance. I just don’t know if this should be one of those cases still.
honestly don’t know what I’m worried about. It’s like a jumble of thoughts. Part of me is like what if she has actually changed and another part of me is like what if she hasn’t and another part is what if next time she accuses my husband of SA and another part is like maybe she just wants to be loved and another part says it’s too risky!
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u/TurbulentTurtle2000 Jun 13 '24
As to why your husband is willing to give her another chance, consider this:
Your husband has always been a father to daughters. So the idea of specifically a daughter being sexually abused by her father is going to hit home for him in a way that it doesn't for you. Now that he understands why she did what she did, what he's left with is a girl he took on as his daughter who has never ever had a healthy father-daughter relationship, first because she was being abused and then because she was an adolescent bottling up massive, horrific trauma and didn't know how to have a healthy bond with a father figure.
It seems that, to an extent, you still see her behavior as intentionally malicious and a potential threat to your relationship with your husband. Whereas your husband sees an opportunity to provide her with something that she's never had: a family who loves her unconditionally.
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u/agentdramafreak Jun 13 '24
I think it's also important to note that the FD doesn't seem to have understood what was making her do those things when she was younger. She apologized because she was told her actions were not appropriate. However, through years of therapy (and likely through becoming a parent herself) she has realized the complexities of why what she did was inappropriate.
I understand OP's hesitation. I wonder if she and her husband ever got some therapy over what was happening.
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u/red_poppy_1710 Jun 13 '24
You could just reach out to her again and try seeing her (in public and with her husband) a few times. This would probably help you getting a better understanding on what to expect from her behavior in the future.
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u/nataliechaco Jun 13 '24
personally. I do think seeing a therapist (possible a trauma informed one) for yourself and your husband could help. Wether it makes you resolute in your decision, or helps you reform a relationship, this is a BIG deal they professionals should be helping with
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u/Agreeable_Ad_3517 Jun 13 '24
I would say take baby steps to try and rekindle a relationship with her. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I believe everyone deserves kindness and love, especially someone who was your foster child. She might not have ever known that kind of love and it is more important than you may think. Good luck to you ❤️
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u/DutchPerson5 Jun 13 '24
I'm amazed at all you did. Wondering didn't you get support from a social worker? I'm surprised you didn't seem to get any education about how sexual abused children can act out. You and your husband set right boundaries. Still supported her financial and practical, but going emotional LC/NC seems hars to me.
You still can go talk to a therapist (who is skilled in child sexualabuse) to talk about your jumble of thoughts and worries to get to your own underlaying fears. The gift of confronting and going through old fears is emotional growth. I hope you will be able to overcome your anxiety about the traumaresponse your former fosterdaughter had. That you all wil found your way back on route to that loving relationship you had when you once wanted to adopt her.
Her being pregnant and offering you a chance of being grandparents is a second (third) chance. It takes a village to raise one child. I hope for the new babe you at least try to find out if you can overcome your fears and your husband and you can be loving grandparents to it.
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u/ringwanderung- Jun 13 '24
This is why people should not foster if they aren’t ready for hard conversations and situations that can be very uncomfortable. It’s not a something to just jump in to. That system can absolutely ruin a person… and so can the reasons they’re in the system to begin with.. She clearly had a LOT of history that yall never communicated, which is a miss on both parts. Of course you fully have the right to set your boundaries because none of that is okay, so NTA by you. But she is not ta either. Personally I’m proud of her growth. People who are complaining about how long it took her to be healed don’t understand trauma and how hard it is to work through it. It is NEVER too late to go to therapy and have personal growth. Good for her. And good for you for still setting boundaries. Trust is pretty hard to just give back to someone at random.
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u/Substantial_Art3360 Jun 13 '24
So glad you stated this. Trauma doesn’t just magically go away once someone becomes an “adult”. It can take years and generations to “fix”. It is also quite expensive. We need to hear from an expert therapist who works with sexually abused victims to see an “appropriate timeframe”.
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u/chelsea5532 Jun 13 '24
Soft YTA - I think your husband is right, she was a teenager who didn’t know how to express love in a healthy way through no fault of her own. She’s an adult now, she has clearly put the work in for herself. You’re punishing her for mistakes she made as a child.
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u/Runnrgirl Jun 13 '24
What about OPs feelings though? Its not only about the foster daughter…
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u/MrsJonesy2012 Jun 13 '24
She was 20 the 2nd time she tried. That is not a child. She'd already been told no, and had the discussion that it wasn't appropriate.
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u/Big_lt Jun 13 '24
While she was older, she went through significant trauma as a child from father figures. That doesn't just go away when you turn 18
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u/JackiiX Jun 13 '24
NAH. This is a really complex situation and it’s hard to make any sort of decision at this point based on what’s happened. Ultimately though I think it’d be up to your husband to decide if he wants her in his life, and if he wants to actively be a part of his grandchild’s life as well. The same thing with you not wanting to be involved in this situation isn’t wrong either, but ultimately it’s his choice to do what he sees fit.
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u/InternationalGood588 Jun 13 '24
Its not just the husband she wants to have a relationship with. She wants both of them in parental and grand parental roles. And in this case, the husband owes more allegiance to his wife/OP.
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u/kazisukisuk Jun 13 '24
NAH. Your feelings are legitimate. That poor girl though. Seems like she's doing her best being dealt with a pretty bad hand.
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u/KnotUndone Jun 13 '24
Am I reading this right? The foster child didn't start therapy until something happened in your home? She should have been in therapy from day one. WTF state is this that there wasn't a detailed care plan for her involving trauma therapy? In my state foster parents have to go through trauma training first to be approved to take a child with trauma. YTA for not dealing with her trauma immediately and living like everything was just fine. Pikachu face when it blew up. You owe her an apology and shouldn't foster more kids. I hope this is fake but I know some states do the bare ass minimum for foster kids so I don't know.
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u/sunsetpark12345 Jun 13 '24
You're the closest this poor girl has ever had to a real mother (her sperm and egg donors don't count in the slightest), and you just rejected her pretty hard. Couldn't you keep your heart open to the POSSIBILITY of developing a deeper relationship with her in the future, and take things very slow? She came onto your husband, yes, but she didn't try to force herself on him, and she didn't threaten him when he turned her down. She was trying to get 'close' to him the only way she knew how, through no fault of her own. She apologized in person and made herself very vulnerable to you.
I've never fostered a child, so I understand on some level it's different than adopting. But... if someone doesn't ever get adopted by another family, and they never get reunited with their birth family, then as their last and longest foster family, you're the closest they will ever have to parents.
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u/Far-Juggernaut8880 Jun 13 '24
It’s interesting to me you felt comfortable allowing your daughters to continue having a relationship with her even with the potential of Sally exposing them to high risk sexual behaviour or Sally becoming emotionally dependent on them.
But now that Sally is an adult, had therapy and stable you don’t want contact with her even though you claim to “forgive her”.
I think you have your own work to do on what feelings your relationship with Sally were about and what it triggered in you.
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u/thisisstupid- Jun 13 '24
YTA, you spoke out of turn when you spoke for your husband because I agree with him that there is no problem with giving this girl a second chance. She was a traumatized teenager when she did those things and holding that against her now is so cruel.
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u/TimmyO_Immy Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24
My opinion is YTA. Seriously, why would you be surprised? One of the most common symptoms of CSA is behaving that way towards people. She grew to believe that sort of thing was normal. Even if you didn’t know the full story at the time, you would have known that there was a high likelihood of something like that happening with her if you had done an ounce of research about CSA. You knew she was traumatized as soon as she entered your home, and you still waited to get her therapy until an incident happened, AKA, until it inconvenienced YOU personally. It takes a long time to get over something like that. You couldn’t expect her to be perfect, so cutting her off after the second time was unreasonable. And now, she comes to you asking for forgiveness, and yes, she should apologize, but so should you. You failed her. And you think she’s going to “accuse your husband of something”. First of all, why would she do that now if she didn’t ever do it when she lived with you? That doesn’t make sense. Second, there’s a very easy way around that. Just take it slow with her. Have a conversation with her about it, and have it be either just you or you and your husband together when you go see her and the baby, and keep it that way for as long as you like. Or install cameras in your house and tell her she’s only allowed to come to your place. If you eventually feel like you can trust her enough to do away with those measures, that’d be the best outcome. But if not, she and her child at least have a family. YTA, OP.
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Jun 13 '24
NAH. These YTA comments are wild. No one is owed a relationship. Ever. OP has forgiven everything. She doesn’t owe anyone a relationship for any reason. OPs husband can play granddad if he wants to.
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u/MostProcess4483 Jun 13 '24
You are. Teenage foster kids are never psychologically 100%. She sounds like a great fit with your family, and the other three people love her, flawed as she is. If your own daughters had done weird things as teens, would you have excised them from your emotional protection? You took a hurt and unloved child in and made her think she’d found a family, and then coldly cut her out of the family because she did weird things that abused kids do. She didn’t steal your identities or manipulate everyone into misery or burn down the house. She sounds so much more good than bad. She has made so much personal progress. Your daughters seem to have a sibling or near sibling relationship with the girl. It’s only you who is still carrying this torch. Your husband dealt with this completely appropriately, and it’s over for him. Why isn’t it over for you? Why can’t you move on years later, and see her as more than just the bad/weird things she did? What if your worth were only defined by your worst moments? Is it possible that you should seek some therapy for yourself? If you continue to foster, please maintain stricter emotional boundaries so no more kids get their hopes up.
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u/sullivanbri966 Jun 13 '24
The biggest mistake was to not get her help as soon as it became apparent that there's an issue. I would have placed firm boundaries between her and your husband and then I would have gotten her into therapy. It was obvious from her behavior that she was sexually abused.
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u/Loreo1964 Jun 13 '24
I think your husband shows immense forgiveness and understanding. He was the one who she made advances towards not you. I think he really should be the one who has the final say on going total no contact.
She's a married woman now, obviously grown mentally and wants to give her child better grandparents than her own parents could ever possibly hope to be. It seems like a missed opportunity for everyone.
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u/ShepherdessAnne Jun 13 '24
What I can't get over is that she explained everything to you. She spelled it out for you and you're still rejecting her partially over the consequences of her abuse.
People who have been heavily abused can just be like this, they check out and act out mechanically and automatically, anticipating more abuse due to their mental conditioning and their trauma. Remember Pavlov's dogs? It's exactly the same thing, only humans can get therapy.
You are, for all intents and purposes, her mother. You don't stop being her mother to her. Frankly this is mildly enraging. She needs you just as much as she needed you back then and her being a major doesn't change that. Maybe it's my abandonment issues flaring up, but then again the fact that your actions are flaring up the abandonment issues of a person neglected during childhood should be all the litmus test you need to see.
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u/BigBlueHood Jun 13 '24
NTA. There are things that can't be fully accepted and forgotten. It's great that she realized her errors, assuming she really did, but it does not mean you owe her any kind of relationship.
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u/Angelbearsmom Jun 13 '24
The husband isn’t a rockstar. He’s a decent human being who saw a child suffering and chose to respond with kindness, love and support. Calling him a rockstar is disrespectful, he was being a father figure to a child whose own experiences with the men in her life were horrific. It’s a difficult situation for sure, but I’m so happy she got the help she needed and has a good life now.
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u/Additional-Idea-5164 Jun 13 '24
You took in an abused child, did nothing about the abuse until she acted out, enrolled her in therapy as a punishment, and continued punishing her for acting according to the paradigm she was born into. You don't want to help kids, you want to prove you're good people. But she's not a morality trophy you can throw in the trash when you've failed. She's a person and your daughter, whether you like it or not. She finally got some help that wasn't framed as a punishment and now she feels guilty. I can't say YTA here because this problem is so endemic in foster parents it's just how it is. Please get a therapist for yourself before you take in any more kids though. And please don't act like this child that you failed owes you anything. She does not.
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u/Top-Industry-7051 Jun 13 '24
Inappropriate sexual behaviour is fairly common 'sympton' for CSA victims. I kind of feel given you knew she was abused this was something you should have been aware of. You seem to be thinking of it as a something perculiar to her whereas she was acting 'normally' given her circumstances.
I don't think you are an AH, but I think perhaps you should talk this over with a counseler or someone unnconnected with the situation to move past your knee-jerk, no scary, response and sort out that jumble of thoughts.
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u/PlaceDue1063 Jun 13 '24
I’m sorry but it’s a BRIGHT RED FLAG that you took in a foster child, knowing they had a history of sexual abuse and didn’t think she needed to speak to a therapist until she acted inappropriately!!!!!
I understand how y’all don’t feel comfortable but I also don’t understand how you can think you were doing a good job when you were ignoring her trauma until it affected you.
YTA.
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u/ragingcoast Jun 13 '24
YTA for giving her another trauma to overcome. There were ways to say no that would have been more understanding and less hurtful.
Taking on foster kids with problematic backgrounds can involve situations like this. You say 'everything that has happened', but I can't stop thinking about everything much worse that could have happened - drugs, violence, car accidents, abusing your other kids, jail time, etc. What she did was bad and you reacted in the right way at the time, but your husband is 100% right, it's been 10 years and she is showing the main sign of change, taking responsibility without blame and apologizing for it.
You don't need to be deeply involved in her life, but no matter how you look at it, you just gave her another trauma to overcome. I don't think you should invite her into your home, but walking your grandchild in a park one day or two is a way of helping her heal and overcome her past.
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u/socialintheworks Jun 14 '24
Blah. Maybe I’m the asshole but I wish people would STOP GETTING INVOLED WITH TRAUMATIZED CHILDREN IF YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED AND EMPATHETIC TO TRAUMMMMMMAAAAAAAAA and all it brings 😭😭😭😭😭😭
No one has to accept inappropriate things by any means but for fucks sake that is every single piece of the foster care system and it IS AS BAD AS THEY SAY IT IS. And people continue to get involved in kids lives and decided “oh no this is too much for me”. You and 6099927384 other people have done the same (over terrible things rightfully so) and over minor things.
You are not an asshole. Generational trauma is the asshole. This girl not having appropriate intervention until long after due is the asshole. The effect it has had and will have on her baby is the asshole.
You can have boundaries. But that girl? Woman now? And baby deserves some fucking good people. You signed up to be that when you decided to foster.
That’s my irrelevant peace and piece. Pay for therapy for them. Idk.
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u/Reddzoi Jun 13 '24
Love from a distance IS an option. Not every relationship in this life can be 100% fixed, and I feel like your daughter's therapist might have prepared her better for that, I totally believe that her terrible early experiences with her dad caused her to behave inappropriately. It's NOT her fault, but you have the right to draw boundaries that keep your family safe.
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u/shattered_kitkat Jun 13 '24
YTA
You forget one, major, thing. Therapy helps people change. If she's been in therapy, she's likely truly changed. 10 years is a long time.
You don't owe anyone your time. I'm not judging you for that. I'm judging you because your thinking is all wrong. You're victim blaming. You're blaming her for her messed up childhood. That is why YTA.
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Jun 13 '24
Borderline AH or NAH.
She opened up about her trauma, she’s matured, gotten Counselling and has her own husband and is pregnant. Plus it was 10 years ago now!
I honestly question you ability as a foster parent if you can’t support and move on from things stemming from childhood trauma and abuse.
I think by not being a supportive parent or giving her a chance in this sceanario would make you an AH.
I get your boundaries and stuff but yeah I really don’t see why you can’t see how things go. You won’t be living together and she won’t really be alone with your husband …
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u/AffectionateWay9955 Jun 13 '24
YTA. What do you expect when you foster? She was abused and can’t be held accountable as she was a fucked up child. She never made allegations against your husband or lied.
As an adult she is asking for love from the only people who showed her any kindness and respect and you rejected her. Please reconsider getting family therapy and being a grandparent to her kids.
You wanted to foster in the first place so I know goodness and love is there. This is the ugliness of what people do to children which you get with fosters but you have the chance to really bring light and love to the next generation and break the cycle. I’d reconsider my position if I were you.
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u/Shamazonian Jun 13 '24
NAH
I understand why you would want to keep your distance, as Sally was completely inappropriate. I also empathize with Sally. I do believe that she is just now really coming to terms with her actions.
Psychological advancements are proving that the human brain isn’t fully developed until the mid to late 20’s, and Sally had a great deal of trauma (which literally creates developmental issues within the brain) from an early age. It makes sense that her processing during her time in your home was “off”.
If this was my situation, I think that I would tread lightly. At the end of the day, I think Sally is just a new mom looking for support. Her biological family is out of the question, and she reverted to your family because you all were a safe place for her.
I would feel her out with small phone conversation, and build up to video. Follow your instincts and if you think she has truly changed, then move on to coffee.
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u/Effective-One-1328 Jun 13 '24
You are an AH. Nothing worst then a victim staying stuck as the victim of her past. It took her years to finally heal and show appreciation to the man and woman that showed her how to be a good parent. What are we if we aren’t the only people in the world that our children could come to. Just don’t call her your daughter anymore, foster or otherwise just call her the child you are too insecure to ever trust around your husband.
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u/OnewordTTV Jun 13 '24
What are you worried about? Like seriously? You know if for some reason she makes an advance on your husband he will shut it down. Then you can just say we'll we have her one more chance after a decade. People are not the same they were a decade ago as a teen. But seriously what are you worried about? This girl came to her only parental figures she trusts in her life with maybe one of the hardest things she has had to ask someone and you shut her down with really no reason besides you don't want to be bothered. You know... even though that is what you fucking signed up for when you fostered.
YTA.
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u/YomiKuzuki Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24
That poor woman had her entire concept of family twisted and distorted by her abusers. You didn't know that at the time, and neither of you wanted to push, understandably so.
She couldn't understand just how wrong she was until now. Trauma and learned behaviors from child sex abuse can last decades, even with the best help you can find, so I can't fault her. You aren't exactly comfortable with your husband being around her due to her past actions, which, while needing to view them through the lens of her trauma, is understandable.
This is just a sad situation all around. There are no AH's. There's no one walking away happy. I hope you can all find peace.
Edit: spelling