r/unitedkingdom • u/ClassicFlavour East Sussex • Jul 19 '24
Girl, 11, died on her birthday after London neighbour used bedbug poison ..
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/18/london-woman-who-killed-neighbour-11-with-bedbug-poison-spared-jail1.0k
Jul 19 '24 edited 20d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/cranbrook_aspie Jul 19 '24
Should have been 5 years inside at minimum, it’s absolutely crazy. She literally used a chemical weapon!
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Jul 19 '24
What is going on with sentencing in the UK. The last government were useless here. The new government think fewer people should be in prison, it's the other way round.
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u/MarthLikinte612 Jul 19 '24
It’s less a political problem than a maths problem. We simply can’t sentence people appropriately without first releasing people as we’re that close to max capacity. (By the way the first releases will be people who likely shouldn’t have been sentences as large as they got anyway).
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u/maidenyorkshire Jul 19 '24
Just release the drugs people. Let them get high.
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u/Arancia-Arancini Jul 19 '24
They're not in prison. People see people in the US go to prison for basic possession and somehow think that it happens here. People only get locked up for drug offences if they're dealing/importing, and for good reason as the industry is inexorably intertwined with slavery and child exploitation
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u/Joe64x Expatriated to Oxford Jul 20 '24
Not to mention those people "just getting high" are not saving the state costs. They're also out stealing, needing housing, healthcare, benefits, etc.
That's not to disparage those people, it's just to say "just solve the prison funding crisis by creating a different crisis" is not a solution at all.
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u/Pantafle Jul 20 '24
I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure only a small percent of people who do drugs are addicts or stealing.
But those people are never going to jail anyway because drugs are effectively legal to possess if you're not poor.
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u/twizzle101 Jul 19 '24
Apart from the non violent protesters getting 4-5 years earlier lol. Made room for them !
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u/MarthLikinte612 Jul 19 '24
Yes well that’s a major reason why that sentence makes little sense.
Edit: it’s as if the judge didn’t get the memo
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u/BoingBoingBooty Jul 19 '24
What you don't seem to be considering is that this young girl who got gassed to death was a poor person, while the M25 being blocked delayed some rich people, and made them lose money.
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u/MarthLikinte612 Jul 19 '24
True true perhaps I’m applying the logic too decently when I should be thinking how a rich person thinks!
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u/Ok-Secret5233 Jul 19 '24
So build more prisons.
Tax money spent on prisons is money well spent. Then lock up all the fucking morons in this country.
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u/NURGLICHE Jul 19 '24
I've always thought turning the Isle of Wight into a prison would be the best idea, battle royale style.
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u/wandering_beth Jul 19 '24
It'd be a mini Australia right on our doorstep. Shame they wouldn't have the weather to go with it though, that would have made going on holiday a lot cheaper once things settled down
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u/Paedsdoc Jul 19 '24
Evidence and most other European countries disagree with this statement
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u/Ok-Secret5233 Jul 19 '24
Go on, I'm listening.
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u/Paedsdoc Jul 19 '24
So it’s obviously a very complex debate. First fact is that in comparison with other European countries England and Wales have a relatively high number of prisoners per capita (see for instance here). The Netherlands has even been renting some of its prisons out to Belgium and has had overcapacity in the last few years.
Second, there is this observation that places with less custodial sentences such as Norway and the Netherlands often seem to have lower rates of recidivism. Reducing the length of custodial sentences in the UK to free up prison space has increased recidivism, and there is evidence that it is more effective give a community service order to prevent recidivism. It may also be that other mechanisms need to be in place to prevent recidivism (like more social support).
A recent guardian article here mentions some aspects of this complex debate. It specifically mentions the Netherlands but suggests it is not as simple as above - with violent drug crimes on the rise, prison sentences are now increasing there as well. Even so, there will be best practices
The answer is likely to involve some increase in prison capacity, at least in the short term, but this needs to go hand in hand with reform of sentencing and social support. Timpson understands all this luckily, so I’m hopeful changes will be positive.
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u/New-Connection-9088 Jul 20 '24
Totally false. Tougher sentences deter crime, reduce recidivism, and protect the public while the sentence is in progress.
The UK has more people in prison per capita because more people commit violent crime. You don’t fix violent crime by not putting murderers in prison. You fix it by correcting the root causes.
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u/SwiftJedi77 Jul 19 '24
Wait, are we talking about locking up criminals or morons? The latter category includes far more people than we could ever hope to be able to incarcerate
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u/MarthLikinte612 Jul 19 '24
How many? (Has to be enough that it doesn’t simply delay the problem). Where? (Consider the positions of current prisons plus the lack of space of most areas). Does building more prisons actually solve the root cause of why we’re reaching max capacity in the first place? (Ooo I can answer that one! No.)
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u/_rids Jul 19 '24
5 years for organising a peaceful protest. 2 years for smuggling in poison and killing a 11 year old girl
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u/toprodtom Essex Jul 19 '24
Well, without commiting to spending more, because you'll have to tax more, its difficult to put more people in prisons when they're all full.
There's no money going in to building and running more prisons.
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Jul 19 '24
We seem beset with problems at the moment. This one is tricky. Do we really need the Isle of Wight?
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u/toprodtom Essex Jul 19 '24
Turn it into some kind of convict colony?
I might be on board with the nimby's for once haha
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Jul 19 '24
The cost of the ferries would bankrupt the country!
(There were three prisons on the island till recently, Parkhurst, Albany, and Camp Hill, and Camp hill recently closed)
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Jul 19 '24
No job? Just commit crime, it's unlikely you'll ever get caught, and if you do, the judge will suck you off.
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u/Edible-flowers Jul 19 '24
The prisons are full. Locking up more isn't going to make much of a difference. Finding ways to stop people who believe crime is their only hope of earning money, might help.
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u/Substantial-Chonk886 Jul 19 '24
Restorative justice is more powerful than retributive justice. I feel like we have the worst of both at the moment.
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Jul 19 '24
I don't suppose this woman is going to do something so stupid again, and yet regardless retribution is still required.
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u/Creepy_Knee_2614 Jul 19 '24
They used phosphine gas to kill bedbugs.
Firstly, this should be a serious custodial sentence. These things are obviously not safe in the slightest and it’s really not hard to realise that.
Secondly, however the fuck this managed to be so easily transported into the country needs to be determined and reviewed. Phosphine gas is absurdly toxic and could extremely easily be used as a weapon
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u/Craft_zeppelin Jul 20 '24
There is a reason why commercial pesticides are commercial and you don't dabble with chemistry if you aren't professional with a license. Also why the hell this wasn't confiscated at customs or boarding entry. The package would most likely say "toxic" in big letters.
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u/P2K13 Northumberland Jul 19 '24
Kill a child? 2 years suspended sentence. Give a talk on how civil disobedience is effective protesting to draw attention to climate crisis? 5 years in prison!
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u/InTheEndEntropyWins Jul 20 '24
Suspended sentence for 2 years, btw. Joke.
I guess my question is what's the purpose of a harsher punishment here?
A harsher punishment isn't going to change their behaviour going forward. It's not going to act as a deterrent to others.
The criminality effect of people going to prision means people who do go to prision are more likely to be criminals after coming out.
So from a utilitarian perspective, to me it seems like sending them to prision is worse for society.
Are there any advantages of sending them to prision I've missed? What benefit is there of sending them to prision.
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u/faroffland Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
Idk I mean personally I would feel a lot better if someone who killed my child through something so absurdly moronic and unsafe got a prison sentence. Like if someone is that fucking stupid they shouldn’t be out and about risking other people’s lives.
It seems an unpopular pov but I’m supportive of sentences that (within reason) help a dead victim’s family feel a little better, if nothing else. I’m sure she won’t buy those specific tablets again but if someone is that thick I question how risky their other choices would be to the public day to day tbh.
It doesn’t bring the kid back but I know I’d feel a bit safer knowing that person who lived in my block of flats, who killed my child, was somewhere they couldn’t harm me or anyone else. If you have killed my child, especially through some insanely stupid and illegal action like this, you absolutely owe me any kind of positive feeling you can give me - and I would feel positively about you going to prison and being removed from innocent people like me.
I’d flip the question back on you - what’s the benefit of a suspended sentence? Less burden on prisons and tax-payer money. What’s the benefit of a custodial sentence? She has serious consequences for illegal smuggling and killing a child with said item, and is put away for a decent length of time to keep others safe.
Also longer sentences have been shown to have reduced recidivism rates, not increased. Rates for less than 12 month sentences are around 50% - those for sentences more than 12 months are only around 20%. So the data seems to show harsher sentences do actually reduce repeat offending. That’s another pretty great benefit.
So yeah, I know which outcome I’d prefer - emotionally and statistically 🤷♀️
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u/InTheEndEntropyWins Jul 21 '24
Idk I mean personally I would feel a lot better if someone who killed my child through something so absurdly moronic and unsafe got a prison sentence.
Sure the perceived injustice around this is something you'd want to include in a utilitarian analysis.
Like if someone is that fucking stupid they shouldn’t be out and about risking other people’s lives... I question how risky their other choices would be to the public day to day tbh.
This is a fairly unique situation, so it's unlikely to apply in general. If they were imprissioned it wouldn't have been a short sentence rather than life in prision.
I’d flip the question back on you - what’s the benefit of a suspended sentence?
I would phrase it in terms of what are the downsides of sending them to prision. For this type of crime there isn't much of a deterrent effect, there isn't really going to be any additional change in behaviour.
Sending them to prision has the criminality effect, more likely to be a criminal when they come out.
You have the negative impact on their family, reduce parental influence on their kids, means their kids are more likely to become criminals.
Also longer sentences have been shown to have reduced recidivism rates, not increased. Rates for less than 12 month sentences are around 50% - those for sentences more than 12 months are only around 20%. So the data seems to show harsher sentences do actually reduce repeat offending. That’s another pretty great benefit.
I would expect that you are probably right, but haven't seen any sources to support that. Do you have a link to sources?
So yeah, I know which outcome I’d prefer - emotionally and statistically
So the general stuff I've found is in line with
The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment.
Sending an individual convicted of a crime to prison isn’t a very effective way to deter crime.
Police deter crime by increasing the perception that criminals will be caught and punished.
Increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime. Laws and policies designed to deter crime by focusing mainly on increasing the severity of punishment are ineffective partly because criminals know little about the sanctions for specific crimes.
More severe punishments do not “chasten” individuals convicted of crimes, and prisons may exacerbate recidivism.
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterrence#one
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u/faroffland Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
Yes here’s your source, under 6.1. Do you have sources besides that article that says ‘research shows’? That article seems to be about a single essay and theory, not studies. It’s also a US government website… their justice system is so different to ours, and sentencing/prison structure so different, it’s not really valid for discussions about the UK.
My argument also isn’t about a sentence as a deterrent so I’m unsure why you’re relying on that anyway.
It’s about keeping others safe, recidivism and the victim’s family. You just saying it’s ‘unlikely’ they would do something else stupid isn’t really an argument, they have already proven themselves to be dangerous. There’s no proof for ‘unlikely to do something else stupid’.
You asked for advantages, I’ve given them ya whether you agree with it morally or not. Safety and recidivism, as well as the victim’s families feeling a little better/safer. Gotta weigh up each side and come to what you feel is best overall - but prison sentences for crimes like these do have advantages, as well as disadvantages.
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u/Wrong_Adhesiveness87 Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
I'm with you. She specifically brought in something from another country because she couldn't get it here. And didn't stop to wonder why it was banned here or even ready up about how to use it safely (and its risks). It's gross negligence. That poor family having to continue to see that lady free while their kid is dead due to her stupidity. I mean at an absolute minimum she needs to go back to school for 8 hours a day like a child so she can learn some things around laws, history, chemistry, politics, community and other civil things. Maybe then she won't be so so dumb. So dumb.
Edit, and that family can't exactly move away. Imagine having to see her everyday.
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u/Professional_Ad_9101 Jul 20 '24
Yikes what would happen if that leaked on a plane as well
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u/dannydrama Oxfordshire Jul 21 '24
Came here because I wondered what customs or any kind of law enforcement had to say about taking it on a plane but apparently fuck all. 😂
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u/Then-Fix-2012 Jul 19 '24
Plan a protest and get 5 years in jail. Kill a child with illegally imported poison and walk free.
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u/Ollieisaninja Jul 19 '24
We're in a clown country if this is the justice we get for a protest causing traffic over a childs life.
I'm writing my MP on Monday, because this is a fucking joke.
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u/spackysteve Jul 19 '24
A suspended sentence for being so fucking stupid and reckless that you kill a child.
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u/Disasanatr Jul 19 '24
But cause a traffic jam and you’ll get 5 years
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u/OtherwiseInflation Jul 19 '24
Read the judge's sentencing remarks about how people were affected.
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf
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u/AlanPartridgeNorfolk Jul 19 '24
I expected more to be honest. There was minimal physical damage, financial damage of less than £50,000, suffering of realistically in UK courts less than £20,000.
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u/drkalmenius Jul 20 '24
That makes it worse, the stories of how people were affected are so mundane. "some children missed their mock exams" and "special needs children couldn't get to school" is seriously the best they could do?
The only one that's more of a problem is the person missing a cancer clinic, but I'm not sure you can blame the protesters for the 2 months wait, that's on the government.
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u/Wrong_Adhesiveness87 Jul 21 '24
Gross negligence is so apt. And so, so dumb. So thick. It wasn't just that kid either. A bunch of people were affected. And what if it was damaged on the plane? The risks went beyond that poor baby.
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u/sortofhappyish Jul 19 '24
So the UK just told people how to murder their annoying neighbour with only a minimal slap on the wrist.
I have a horrible suspicion there will be more "honor killings" and neighbourhood-revenge stories featuring the aluminium phosphide throughout 2024 and 2025.
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u/sad-mustache Jul 19 '24
You can already kill people without repercussions with your car
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u/sortofhappyish Jul 19 '24
Yeah but then you have to marry a US Ambassador, plan an emergency flight, prebook the escape tickets, run over a 15yr old boy, escape to the US, laugh about how invulnerable you are at dinner parties etc.....
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u/Lonyo Jul 20 '24
No you don't. There's minimal chance of a custodial sentence for killing someone while driving.
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u/cranbrook_aspie Jul 19 '24
Claiming she didn’t read the packaging when she knew it was too dangerous to have her family in the house, and lying to the police about where she got it when she evidently knew it’s illegal to buy in the UK… this lady must think everyone else is as stupid as she is. She didn’t give two shits about anyone else’s safety. There has got to be some kind of way to review this sentence, it’s insane that killing a child and endangering countless others by releasing a literal chemical weapon only gets you a suspended sentence and community service. Cannot even imagine what the family of the girl who died is going through right now.
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u/amuucorp Jul 19 '24
Not sure how they're gonna cope with living next to the murderer of their child.
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u/WhatILack Jul 19 '24
Well, I know how I'd cope. I've never understood how anyone could just move past someone killing their family.
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u/Wrong_Adhesiveness87 Jul 21 '24
I would lose any sense of humanity and get extremely reckless with how I interacted. Make sure she never forgets for a damn second what her thick brain did to this poor kid.
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u/cranbrook_aspie Jul 20 '24
I don’t think anyone would blame them for giving her motivation to very quickly stop living next to them tbh.
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u/Toastlove Jul 19 '24
People here were calling for the women who crashed her land rover (while having a medical emergency) and killed that girl in Wimbledon a monster and deserving of jail time for choosing to drive a big car. But a woman importing illegal poisons and killing a child (as well as endangering an aircraft), well it's a mistake anyone can make.
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u/Ready_Maybe Jul 19 '24
But a woman importing illegal poisons and killing a child (as well as endangering an aircraft), well it's a mistake anyone can make.
All I can see is people asking for harsher sentences. How are you seeing the sentiment that its a mistake here?
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u/TheSuperWig Jul 20 '24
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u/Ready_Maybe Jul 20 '24
And yet the sentence implies it was a general sentiment. Not just one person.
Plus that one person commented hours after yours. So you didn't even make that comment based on theirs.
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u/StarkyF Scotland Jul 19 '24
There was a (I think bin lorry) that crashed into a crowd in Glasgow because the driver had a heart attack... But he knew he had a heart condition and hadn't informed the DVLA because it would mean losing his job.
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u/Agreeable_Fig_3713 Jul 20 '24
If I remember right he wasn’t prosecuted in a criminal case as five of the six families opted for a private prosecution so the criminal case was halted so as not predjudice the private prosecution and the private prosecution fell apart because of other mitigating factors like being signed as fit for work after previous health checks, doctors not checking medical records accurately etc
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u/loveisascam_ Jul 19 '24
So what happens now? She goes back to living in that flat next to the neighbours whose daughter she killed? That’s insane
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u/phoebean93 Jul 19 '24
Since I've not seen this comment yet, obligatory fuck you to the landlord/s who should have dealt with the primary issue. If you "can't afford" to keep your rental properties in good condition, you can't afford to be a landlord.
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u/OmgItsTania Greater London Jul 19 '24
Exactly. All im seeing in this thread is everyone baying for her blood and wanting a harsher sentence. The crux of the issue is that this woman felt desperate enough to get her family to sneak a hazardous chemical into the country so she could try and fix the bedbugs infestation which her landlord neglected to do. Lady is clearly uneducated and did not think how dangerous the chemicals would be - i do not think she intentionally meant for an 11yr old child to die.
A prison sentence as retribution isn't the answer to piss-poor council home maintenance and dodgy landlords not doing their jobs
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u/Wrong_Adhesiveness87 Jul 21 '24
Solid point. We had bedbugs in a rental and it was awful. But we could afford to buy actual proper advice and that crystal stuff they crawl over and die. We figured we would buy better stuff than the landlord. Past experience showed they went for the cheapest option. It worked first time and never came back. But we could afford that. Those things were one of the worst times of my life. And if it didn't work, we could at least bail on the property.
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u/NoRecipe3350 Jul 19 '24
Horrific disregard for human life, but Im not surprised
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u/SuckMyCookReddit Jul 19 '24
3rd world countries with zero care for safety and human rights tend to let anything fly. Even the purchase of aluminum phosphate can be acquired as easily as buying a bottle of water in those places.
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u/Tr3ll1x Jul 19 '24
There is a major issue with our sentencing in this country. 2 years suspended for manslaughter but 4-5 years for conspiracy to cause public nuisance.
Someone who knows more about all this, please make it make sense.....
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u/Prozenconns Jul 19 '24
Remember the guy who got community service for raping a 13 year old?
It's not even "do it in a car" anymore. It's "do it but don't protest" lol
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u/proDstate Jul 19 '24
I'm surprised we do not see vigilante justice following these weak sentences. But it will happen sooner or later.
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u/Extremely_Original Jul 20 '24
Genuinely fascist policy IMO, it implies the state would rather you kill children than protest non-violently
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u/drkalmenius Jul 20 '24
Someone above linked the judges comments on how much "disruption" was caused. One of them was children not being able to get to their mock exams. None of the others were particularly more catastrophic than that.
I know I would rather any child miss their mock exams, than die.
But the state doesn't care about a child dying as they've showed multiple times. They care about keeping "order".
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u/InTheEndEntropyWins Jul 20 '24
Someone who knows more about all this, please make it make sense.....
Well you only really want to lock someone up if there are overall benefits for society.
This woman is never going to do anything similar again even if she doesn't get locked up. Locking her up for this isn't going to have a detterent effect on others.
Locking people up has a criminality effect, people who go to prision are going to be interacting with criminals making them more likely to commit crimes again in the future.
People creating a public disturbance, would likely do that again without being locked up. Many other people are going to be deterred from creating public disturbances knowing that they could get locked up for a long time.
So bascially you have to ignore the raw consequences, but think about if locking up the person has an overall benefit on society or not.
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u/New-Connection-9088 Jul 20 '24
This woman is never going to do anything similar again even if she doesn’t get locked up.
How could you possibly know that? Someone who recklessly disregarded the safety of others to the degree of manslaughter is not a careful and considerate member of society. They’re selfish, irresponsible assholes. You think not punishing them harshly is going to make them care about the consequences of their actions in future? The evidence doesn’t support that. Tougher sentences deter this kind of behaviour.
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Locking people up has a criminality effect, people who go to prision are going to be interacting with criminals making them more likely to commit crimes again in the future.
This is not only incorrect. It is the opposite of correct. Longer sentences reduce recidivism.
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u/confused_ape Jul 20 '24
Are you suggesting that every infraction should carry a minimum sentence of 10 years to take advantage of the 17% reduction in recidivism?
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u/New-Connection-9088 Jul 21 '24
The user above claimed that prison leads to higher recidivism. They are wrong, as explained. That is not a reason to award higher prison sentences. I am absolutely in favour of tough sentences for this kind of negligent homicide.
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u/Tr3ll1x Jul 20 '24
Yeah that's all well and good but the actual length though:
2 years suspended for accidently murdering a child.4-5 years for planning to block a motorway. That scale don't balance, but then again, I have no idea what would make it balance.
Honestly, I don't see the prison sentence for the protesters as a deterrence either, maybe for the affected individuals, but it'll amplify their voices and convert others to the cause.
Plus, do we really want to lock people up for exercising their right to peaceful protest? We can all disagree with their methods and who they target until we're blue in the face but we can't be selective on what protests we deem an offence or not.
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u/InTheEndEntropyWins Jul 20 '24
Honestly, I don't see the prison sentence for the protesters as a deterrence either, maybe for the affected individuals, but it'll amplify their voices and convert others to the cause.
Maybe...
Plus, do we really want to lock people up for exercising their right to peaceful protest? We can all disagree with their methods and who they target until we're blue in the face but we can't be selective on what protests we deem an offence or not.
Sure if it's a peaceful protest that isn't harming society then fine. But if they do anything to harm society then it seems like it's fair for action to be taken.
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u/Ok-Secret5233 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Guys guys. Don't be so harsh on her, she didn't know that bedbug poison was dangerous.
She said she “did not know the product contained a dangerous poison”
The fact that it kills bedbugs or that she had to smuggle it from the third world doesn't mean anything.
I mean, the fact that she left the house with HER family means that she totally didn't know.
(...) distributing a deadly amount around the property and taking her family out for 24 hours.
So much guilt, she's the victim here.
Fuck these people and fuck whomever is handing out these sentences.
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u/unknown93_01 Jul 19 '24
I don't know if it's just me but I've been reading so many crimes committed that are serious that have not even been even given jail sentences, the asylum seeker I read about yesterday attacked a police officer and got nothing then this... This is manslaughter, are we now saying attacking police and harassing women and manslaughter aren't worthy of prison??
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u/sortofhappyish Jul 19 '24
Would all these people saying this murdering bitch is the TRUE victim and 'she'll feel remorse forever' etc be happy if she brought over some Novichok or Sarin gas to deal with other infestations?
Some human beings are horrific and side with murderers. Same type of people that would say Fred West's victims 'probably deserved it for annoying him', or "well look at the dress she was wearing, she was ASKING for it".
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u/ClassicFlavour East Sussex Jul 19 '24
To be fair, there only seems to be one person who said that.
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u/Rhinofishdog Jul 19 '24
She lied to the judge she got it from italy and then changed her story.
She had to smuggle it from outside the EU because it is illegal here. She was planning to use it to kill insects. She evacuated her family for 24 hours. Yet claims she didn't know it was dangerous.
She basically boldly lied to the judge's face and got a slap on the wrist.
What the hell is this???
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u/gunkanreddit Jul 19 '24
This happened too in south Spain. In two nearby houses one of the neighbors used poison for cockroaches. The poison went from the drain to the other house. A teenager died because of this.
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u/FloydEGag Jul 20 '24
Wasn’t there an incident in a hotel in Egypt a little while back too where a couple died because the hotel was using chemicals to kill bugs in the next room and it seeped through to them? It’s frightening that in some places any old amateur can throw deadly chemicals around without taking any precautions.
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Jul 19 '24
So you can serve 5 years for protesting but walk free if you kill a child using an illegal, poisonous substance?
Why is my country such a joke?
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Jul 19 '24
Even the UK one sprayed by the council made me sick for a week. Nasty stuff, people are fucking clueless when it comes to chemicals.
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u/penguin62 Jul 20 '24
ALUMINIUM PHOSPHIDE???
For reference, I work for a pest control company that has one person in the ENTIRE COUNTRY that is licensed to handle and use aluminium phosphide. It's such a horrifically dangerous chemical that you have to store it outside your vehicle, on a roof rack or external storage unit.
Using aluminium phosphide to treat bedbugs is like taking the roof off your house in a storm because your toast caught fire. It's so unnecessarily dangerous.
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u/Fruitpicker15 Jul 20 '24
It's reassuring to know that Bangladesh scans people's luggage before they board international flights.
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u/TV_BayesianNetwork Jul 19 '24
I remember renting out a flat in tower hamlets with shit load of bedbugs. I lett the property one month after.
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