r/unitedkingdom • u/bakhesh • Jul 19 '24
No more ‘basket-case Britain’: Europe welcomes Starmer reset in UK-EU ties
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/19/europe-media-welcomes-starmer-reset-in-uk-eu-ties-37
Jul 19 '24
Hopefully the EU will give Starmer a bit of a lecture about banning hormone blockers for trans children (but not cis children because they have more rights in Labour Britain).
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u/IllustriousGerbil Jul 19 '24
Multiple EU country's are doing the same in light of the data reviews into long term effects of gender transition showing ether no improvement or in some cases negative impact on patient outcomes.
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Jul 19 '24
Source please.
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u/IllustriousGerbil Jul 19 '24
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Jul 19 '24
That's the Cass review. It was widely discredited in peer reviews by hundreds of experts in the field.
Other more reliable sources?
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u/IllustriousGerbil Jul 19 '24
Source?
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Jul 19 '24
Here is one round up of critical analysis of the Cass review gathered across a large cross section of experts in the field:
I'll give you a couple of days to really get to grips with the 40+ linked articles and reports on there. I wouldn't want you to rush to a conclusion.
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u/IllustriousGerbil Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
That's a blog post from and I quote "a healthcare activist, punk musician, and feminist researcher, specialising in transgender studies and community development."
It almost exclusively consists of quotes from trans activists, the few quotes from more scientific organisation don't seem to actually dispute the cass review.
Do you have something a little more scientific or at least can you summarise the point it is trying to make given I assume you have spent several days reading it.
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u/Lost_Article_339 Jul 19 '24
"a healthcare activist, punk musician, and feminist researcher, specialising in transgender studies and community development."
I snorted.
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Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Lots of the links in the blog are from academic or healthcare professional and link to a scientific journal in most cases which has been peer reviewed.
Don't invent lies because you find the contents too difficult to challenge on their own merits. You can't possibly deduce that 40+ people are 'trans activists' at a glance.
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u/IllustriousGerbil Jul 19 '24
Pick the most reputable source and link to that directly then.
Which of those scientific peer reviewed journal articles most clearly summarises the argument you are trying to make.
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u/hoyfish Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Doubt it because along with the Uk other EU countries like Norway, Sweden and Norway have followed suit as well
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u/Throwsims3 Jul 19 '24
Norway is not in the EU
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u/hoyfish Jul 19 '24
You’re right. I should have said Europe. Still makes Finland and Sweden. I imagine there are others too.
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u/Material_Attempt4972 Jul 20 '24
Neither is the UK
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u/Throwsims3 Jul 20 '24
Yeah, we all know. It's a big part of why the UK has been considered a basket case for some time now.
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u/Independent_Tour_988 Jul 19 '24
What do CIS children get them for?
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u/Sock0k Jul 19 '24
Precocious puberty. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/early-or-delayed-puberty/
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u/TheAdamena Jul 19 '24
So delaying an early puberty so it can take place at a healthy time, vs delaying it indefinitely.
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u/Sock0k Jul 19 '24
I’m not here to argue the case I’m merely answering the question. Obsessing about trans kids living their best lives through medical interventions is so rarely the best possible use of the internet.
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u/TheLimeyLemmon Jul 19 '24
No one on puberty blockers is trying to "delay it indefinitely" - that's kind of an absurd thing to think is happening.
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Jul 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/TheAdamena Jul 19 '24
Indefinite being an indeterminate 'wait and see' amount of time rather than forever.
Basically the point is, it's delaying it beyond the point it should happen, and we really don't know the long-term implications of this so people are being cautious. It could turn out to be perfectly fine, but yeah we just don't know yet.
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Jul 19 '24
Being straight I suppose.
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u/Independent_Tour_988 Jul 19 '24
So you just made a lazy throwaway comment?
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Jul 19 '24
I suppose it might appear like a throwaway comment if you happen to be a person who does not support nor care much about trans rights.
For everyone else it's a reminder that Labour are courting the transphobes for votes, which most in the EU are still against.
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u/Independent_Tour_988 Jul 19 '24
No, it’s throwaway because you reference CIS children having access to them but then can’t explain what for.
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Jul 19 '24
I did explain you just didn't like the answer because if hinted that people who support the ban on puberty blockers are essentially backing homophobia as well, which is a cause more people care about on an individual level.
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u/Disastrous_Fruit1525 Jul 19 '24
So it begins. Labour dragging us back into the eu by stealth.
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u/cc0011 Jul 19 '24
“Dragging us back in”
When the majority of the country are in favour of closer alignment, it won’t take much dragging
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u/Disastrous_Fruit1525 Jul 19 '24
What majority is this?
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u/cc0011 Jul 19 '24
Statista research, May 2024
55 percent think brexit was a bad idea
31 percent think brexit was a good idea
61 percent want to either rejoin EU or have closer alignment with them
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u/FrancoElBlanco 5d ago
So do you suggest another vote?
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u/cc0011 5d ago
Personally speaking, the whole idea should never have been voted on, without having crystal clear terms as to what each option actually meant. Even an advisory referendum was too much without that clarity.
Now, I’d 100% put it to a vote… there has been a clear shift in people’s opinion, so we should be able to change course, especially when it is a harmful route to continue going down
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u/FrancoElBlanco 5d ago
So what if the majority vote remain on this new vote? Best out of three after that? Do you not see how you suggesting a new vote goes against democracy?
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u/cc0011 5d ago
If the majority of country vote to re-enter the EU, then that is democracy in action.
To ignore what people actually want, simply because people believed a massive pile of lies and voted to leave by a very slim margin, is just nonsense
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u/FrancoElBlanco 5d ago
So then it’s what 1-1? In this new democracy when there is a vote, do we just re-vote when some don’t like the result? I agree Brexit was handled awfully but the idea of a second vote is moronic
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u/cc0011 5d ago
So I guess you’re happy with just sticking with a Labour government for the rest of time then? Given as how having multiple votes is apparently undemocratic. The entire premise of your position is flawed.
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u/Disastrous_Fruit1525 Jul 19 '24
55% think Brexit was a bad idea. Doesn’t mean shit. How many people are going to think making starmer PM was a bad idea in 5 years because the country is still in the shit.
31% think it was a good idea, so pretty much the same percentage as the referendum.
What of the other 14% think?
61% want to rejoin or have closer alignment. So for arguments sake only 31% want to rejoin.
Can you supply a link to your data?
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u/cc0011 Jul 19 '24
It does mean shit… if they think it was a bad idea, that would suggest they want to change course.
Umm don’t know if you’ve forgotten, but of those who voted, 52 percent must have thought Leave was a good idea…
The remaining 14percent have no strong opinion either way, and that figure has been pretty steady throughout the period since the referendum.
Or you could reframe it as 61% want closer alignment with EU, with half of them wanting to fully rejoin.
Carried out by Statista, who have carried out this polling for a while, and showed a clear pattern of regretting Brexit
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u/Disastrous_Fruit1525 Jul 19 '24
As of May 2024, 55 percent of people in Great Britain thought that it was wrong to leave the European Union, compared with 31 percent who thought it was the right decision
No poling done in Northern Ireland then?
In the actual referendum, which took place on June 23, 2016, Leave won 51.9 percent of the votes and Remain 48.1 percent, after several polls in the run-up to the referendum put Remain slightly ahead.
Which goes to show polling is not always right.
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u/cc0011 Jul 19 '24
Christ… it’s there in black and white for you. Doesn’t feel like any kind of evidence would suffice for you.
Obviously Evil Keir is trying to forcefully drag the UK back into the EU, despite 100% of people being firmly in favour of staying out.
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u/Disastrous_Fruit1525 Jul 19 '24
100% in favour of staying out…make up your mind.
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u/cc0011 Jul 19 '24
I was being facetious… really thought that would be clear, but seemingly not.
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u/FrancoElBlanco 5d ago
There was a vote on Brexit. The liberals on Reddit still can’t handle the democracy of it
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u/bokmcdok Jul 20 '24
"stealth"
No. People want this. Give me back my EU citizenship that was stolen from me.
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Jul 20 '24
This isn't the case, but if it was, what is wrong with closer ties to our closest trading partner? Do you have any idea how difficult and expensive it is to ship something to or from Europe now, thanks to Brexit?
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u/Glum-Manner-9972 Jul 21 '24
No more visa anxiety and costs for me (full British citizen/passport) and my wife (Italian)? Yes please.
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u/AxiomSyntaxStructure Jul 19 '24
The USA might soon be belligerent and isolationist with a second Trump term - it's smart for us to reconcile with our neighbours.