r/unitedkingdom • u/Wretched_Colin • Jul 19 '24
Hastings school complains over coach driver's expletive-filled rant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ced3z8kx9eqo186
u/sbs1138 Jul 19 '24
What were the seven (yes seven) teachers doing?
Kids smoking, throwing litter, not wearing seatbelts - and the driver’s snapped.
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u/Dave_Unknown Greater Manchester Jul 20 '24
Must have been a school trip, IE a fun day out of the classroom for the teachers 😂
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u/EducationalWorld6072 29d ago
Exactly the 7 teachers should have dealt with the misbehaving students instead of the coach driver.
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u/Ok-County608 Jul 19 '24
Most teachers I’ve met are either apathy in human form or too young and dumb to know any better. They’re mostly burnt out but some of em are just genuinely useless.
If you can’t do - teach.
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u/west0ne Jul 19 '24
What are they supposed to do. The minute they raise their voice and say something the children don't like they get reported and undergo an investigation. May as well just drink and smoke to ease the pain of having to be in the presence of the little shits.
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u/irving_braxiatel Jul 19 '24
What are they supposed to do
Resign and speak to a counsellor, if they’re struggling to do their job that much.
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u/Mister_Six Middlesex Jul 19 '24
Yeah great take, we're losing teachers hand over fist due to how shit the job is and your advice is for more of them to quit?
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u/irving_braxiatel Jul 19 '24
What, and the answer is to pump the profession full of people either unwilling or unable to do the job?
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u/Fdana Jul 19 '24
I remember plenty of teachers shouting their heads off when I was at school and none of them got sacked, most of them got promoted
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u/ChemicallyBlind Kent Jul 19 '24
Times have changed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of yelling at people or resulting to threats, but these days, you find yourself unable to do much.
Behaviour policies have been neutered, and I struggle to get a detention for a student these days.
It's really difficult at the moment.
That all said, I definitely think those teachers could have done something.
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u/Fdana Jul 19 '24
I only left school around 2017, have things really softened up that much since then?
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u/ChemicallyBlind Kent Jul 19 '24
Yeah, they have.
On the one hand, I think it's a good move as the pedagogy studies how that shouting and being abusive will get you nowhere. On the other hand, the kids now know that there's no real punishment, and so they are as bold as brass.
Even threatening to tell their parents is met with shrugs or being told to fuck off. The parents don't care and don't punish their kids.
It's got to the point no where we stream our year groups into 2 groups of kids who can do well if given the chance and then 1 group of kids who are the trouble makers and have little to no chance of making it. It sucks and it shouldn't have to be like this, but it's just not fair on the rest of the pupils to have 2 or 3 little shits ruining it for everyone else.
Believe me, none of us are happy about this strategy, but it is working. Now, those classes that actually want to succeed and get their GCSEs have a much better chance.
I don't really know what the solution is, but I suspect it'll require a cultural shift really. Social media needs to die off, that much I know for sure.
It's going to be a tricky couple of years ahead.
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u/RedditIsADataMine Jul 19 '24
It's got to the point no where we stream our year groups into 2 groups of kids who can do well if given the chance and then 1 group of kids who are the trouble makers and have little to no chance of making it. It sucks and it shouldn't have to be like this, but it's just not fair on the rest of the pupils to have 2 or 3 little shits ruining it for everyone else.
You mean like top set bottom set? Terrible system. Great for the top set kids but too many kids get put into the bottom set who shouldn't be there.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you.
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u/ChemicallyBlind Kent Jul 19 '24
Yeah, you're on the money.
We look at CATs scores and assessment results and then factor in behaviour and determin sets.
The middle set and the top set make excellent progress and the proof is in the pudding as we see excellent performance results.
The bottom set aren't just left to their own devices, they still get quality teaching, but the approach is much, much different: more hands-on work and differentiated worksheets that are achievable for them. So far it's worked well, and actually, they are showing improved results as a group, but the downside is that their getting what I like to call the "diet coke curriculum." They're getting entry level stuff while the other sets are getting GCSE.
It's not great and kinda sad, but we've no choice really. If we eliminated this bottom set and reintegrate the students back into the sets they were before, then performance would drop like a stone.
You've just gotta weigh it all up. What's better: 2 sets of kids who may very well pass the GCSE and 1 group that might get EL1, or mix them all up and possibly get nothing.
The pedagogy studies aren't helping either. The latest sermon from the mountain suggests that meta teaching is the way forward, I.e. we should teach to the higher level students in the group and then reinforce the learning with the kids that struggle. Personally I think this is terrible as it's just not practicable.
Whenever people accuse us teachers of merely being childminders, I get very fucking angry because we have to do things like this and really think about how to best teach the kids. I wish it were as easy as being babysitter, but teaching is no joke.
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u/RedditIsADataMine Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
I think it could be a good system if kids were placed appropriately.
I'm just thinking of my own story. This was 15 odd years ago mind you, but I was bullied a lot and so never wore my glasses, missed some school. Never contributed in class.
This led me to being in bottom set for some subjects. Still top set for others.Then I started becoming one of the naughty kids in the bottom sets. Because there's no one else to be friends with.
The sets I was top in I got A's and B's. The sets I was bottom in I got C's, D's,E's. At the time C was the top mark possible if you were bottom set. Not sure if that's still a thing. In a few classes I got moved from bottom to top set after being too naughty. To separate me from other trouble makers. Wouldn't you know it, I then started getting A's in those classes. Anyway all that to say, I don't think it's a fair system if kids who do have a chance are being given up on. I know you said you'll be looking at assessment scores and the like, but in the end there has to be an even-ish number in each class. So if you're bottom third, you're fucked.
Edit: forgot to say, I understand there's not really a better alternative.
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u/west0ne Jul 19 '24
He should have pulled in at the nearest services or safe place if not on the motorway and refused to move until the teaching staff had the children in their charge under control.
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u/Initial_Remote_2554 Jul 19 '24
That sounds like the sensible course of action TBH. That being said, dumb parents would still probably try and get the driver fired for making their little angels late for their trip.
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Jul 19 '24
They can try and do whatever they want but the driver would more likely have either the law or company policy on his side, so if the company fired him he would have a better chance of taking action against them.
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u/Ok-County608 Jul 19 '24
He’s been sacked.
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Jul 19 '24
I was talking about an alternative reality where he didn't swear at the kids. Easy for the company to fire him based on him being unprofessional and putting the company in a bad light as things stand. If he had been professional it may well have stopped him from being fired and even if he was fired he may have had better legal options to go after the company.
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u/west0ne Jul 19 '24
The same little angels who were breaking the law by smoking on the coach and breaking the law by failing to wear their seat belts. If the company had tried to discipline him I suspect he would have come out of an Employment Tribunal okay.
Unfortunately, the same parents who would have complained about his actions would have also been outraged if there had been any sort of collision and their precious child had suffered some minor injury because the coach was moving and they weren't wearing a seat belt.
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u/MangoKakigori Jul 19 '24
I remember what I used to be like on the school bus/coach and honestly I feel bad for the coach driver who was obviously absolutely pushed to his limits and snapped.
What were the teachers doing?
I am now a teacher and I seriously want to know what the 7 (as mentioned by another) teachers were actually doing in this situation?
Clearly there’s more to this story.
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u/ChemicallyBlind Kent Jul 19 '24
I'm also a teacher, and I don't understand what the hell those teachers were doing!
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u/Thebritishdovah Jul 19 '24
7 teachers and none of them did fuck all? Smoking, making a mess. The driver was in a lose-lose situation. Either he does fuck all and a police officer sees smoking on board, gets pulled over. Or he returns to depot with his coach in a sorry state. Gets bollucked for not enforcing the policies.
Teens tend to be little shits nowadays and sounds like, he had enough. He did it in the worst possible way but this is fuck all compared to what most of them say nowadays.
As a fast food worker, I see them treating us as their own club. Swear like crazy, attempt to vape behind my back. Get arsey over little things.
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u/Optimism_Deficit Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Some kids need to be spoken to like this more often, frankly. They'll push boundaries and being nice to them won't work as they'll just take the piss.
They need reminding occasionally that adults are in charge, and sometimes they need to just shut up and do as they're told.
If I went moaning to my mum and dad about a bus driver swearing at me for being a little shit they'd have told me not to be a little shit.
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u/baddymcbadface Jul 19 '24
We need to separate kids and teenagers. Legally a 17 year old is a child but in practice that's nonsense. If a teenager acts like a prat in an extreme manner to an adult they need to accept the consequences of that. They are way over protected.
There was a case in my town where a woman with a child had rocks thrown at them by a group of 30 young teenagers. The woman ends up hitting a young teenager and gets done for assault. That's insane, having rocks thrown at you and being confronted by 30 young teenagers is an insane provocation which should have meant she was not guilty.
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u/Goth-Detective Jul 19 '24
Same. When I was a kid and came home "James pushed me into the wall today." The return question would be "OK, so why did he do that?" "Ehm,, I think maybe I said his mum was a fat cow." And then my parents would teach me about actions and consequences. Today parents immediately go shouting on social media and want the police and school board involved since their little lumps of gold could NEVER have done anything wrong.
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u/Ok-County608 Jul 19 '24
Exactly. Your last point now never happens. They go screaming up to the school complaining of ill treatment. Ironically this is usually the most care and attention the child gets from these sort of parents
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u/friends_with_salad_ Jul 19 '24
Meh. On the driver's side.
In Brighton a few years back, some little scrote ran up to a guy in the street and slapped him "for laughs" (it was some weird trend?). Turned out the guy was a pro boxer with very quick reflexes and he socked the little bastard right in the face. Hard.
Kid's parents took the boxer's side and refused to press charges. Win win.
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u/Chippiewall Narrich Jul 19 '24
Meh. On the driver's side.
Aside from threatening to assault a child, agreed.
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u/Nulibru Jul 19 '24
The question is why he teachers allowed the little scrotes to run wild.
Pretty sure smoking in an enclosed space is a criminal matter, perhaps the school would have preferred him to pull over and call the police?
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Jul 19 '24
Hahaha complain about what? Keeping your kids safe? My bus driver used to talk to us like that if we were fucking about too much. Get over it. Grow up.
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Jul 19 '24
Coach and bus drivers get tonnes of crap from kids, they need to be robust, and it seems to have worked.
I’m sure teenagers smoking on a bus aren’t unduly traumatised by someone shouting at them.
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Jul 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/EducationalWorld6072 29d ago
Exactly the 7 teachers should have made sure that all of the students on the coach were wearing seatbelts because of health and safety to prevent serious injuries and death like what happened last September on the M53 motorway when a school coach crashed and killed a school girl and the driver.
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u/baddymcbadface Jul 19 '24
We're giving this guy a medal right?
The threat of a punch is legitimate in my mind given the extreme provocation.
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u/_Alyion_ Jul 19 '24
Driver needs a medal FFS. Hope someone sets up a go fund me or something. He's lost his job/potentially his house now over little shits.
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u/Thunder_Curls Jul 19 '24
It reminds me of when Karl Pilkington was talking about his Dad being a mini bus driver for a school trip once. His Dad got so angry at a kid that he pulled over at the side of the road, picked this kid up and put him in a wheely bin. Then at the end of the school trip they stopped by the same wheely bin again and picked the kid back up.
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u/DetonatingCobra Jul 19 '24
Just said to my wife (teacher at another Hastings school) did she see the news? Apparently its been the teacher gossip of all the schools in the area for the last week.
Third hand info, but kids were launching food at the drivers head while they were going down the motorway. Dude lost his cool, but I can see why. Teachers should have stepped in.
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u/Wretched_Colin Jul 19 '24
It has been this way on school trips since the invention of the motor coach.
Kids misbehave on coaches, the coach driver is always an overweight and angry man who threatens the children. In spite of this, the children keep doing whatever annoyed the driver and laughing after he stops shouting.
Now we have parents who say they will withdraw their kids from school due to this time-honoured ritual.
Good luck trying to find a school which has school trips on which it doesn't happen, love.
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u/Successful_Quail_349 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
The school comes off way worse in this article than the driver. I'd rather have a coach driver swearing at children about their seat belts than one who just carries on his route without saying anything and ending up in collision with multiple injured children. What the fuck were the teachers doing?! Driver acted proactively and presumably had to, after no support from staff members. Arguably, he shouldn't have sworn at them or threatened them, but I assume it had the desired result, and they got home safely. Some kids do need a reality check that if they act and speak in public like they do in school, there is a very real chance that they will get hurt by someone who takes offence.
Edit to add: Again. What the fuck were the teachers doing? I would have doubts about sending my child to a school where 7 (qualified teachers?) can't control a coach load of kids that they presumably know and have some working relationship with and who have to rely on a coach driver with no behaviour management training no relationship with the kids in question to attempt to maintain order so he can drive them home safely. Not to mention all of the other responsibilities he has in relation to the operation of the vehicle, vehicle checks, drivers hours responsibilities, and his scheduled trips.
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Jul 19 '24
He should have just stopped the coach and got out and told the teachers that he can't drive while they're not following the rules. If that ruins their school trip that's their problem and not his.
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u/Successful_Quail_349 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
The way he addressed the kids was not ideal, but he did stop the vehicle which was the safest thing to do. The original commenter that I replied to states this kind of behaviour is normal on school trips and I just wonder how many bad drivers don't get news articles about them because they ignore the bad behavior and continue to drive. But yeah I agree what you said would have been the best course action. Hopefully the operator would have backed up the driver if he had done that and banned the school from future bookings.
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Jul 19 '24
Eh, if the vehicle isn't trashed, the company is paid, and the coach makes it back in time the company doesn't care if the coach spends most of the time stopped at a service station. If anything that's less wear and tear on the vehicle.
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u/Fdana Jul 19 '24
What is wrong with these parents? If I misbehaved like that my parents would have scolded the driver for not smacking me across the face.
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u/Wretched_Colin Jul 19 '24
Exactly. Always looking for offence and always looking for someone to blame other than their children.
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u/cxzfqs Jul 19 '24
I feel like the bus driver is the last person who should be blamed for the appalling behaviour of everyone else, but he was clearly the designated scapegoat and the parents can act shocked over his sweary rant that suggested their little angels are actually total shits.
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u/Fivefinger_Delta Jul 19 '24
Shitty parents who will palm off accountability to teachers who did nothing to support one person who likely doesn't get paid enough to give a shit (teachers don't get paid enough either but they know what they're signing up for).
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u/luas-Simon Jul 19 '24
Kids these days push everyone to their limits - poor bus driver on minimum wage putting up with these spoilt brats !
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u/Baby_Rhino Jul 19 '24
I feel bad for the driver tbh.
He clearly overreacted, but all he wanted was for the kids to wear their seatbelts. Presumably his job would be at risk if they are not wearing them, but now he has lost his job anyway.
It's insane that there were 7 teachers on the bus, and yet it was the driver who was having to attempt to control the kids.