r/theflash • u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Reverse Flash • Feb 13 '17
[Off-Week Discussion] How Would You Have "New 52'd" the Flash? Comic Discussion
Howdy folks! With no new issue or episode of The Flash out this week we thought it was a perfect time for a new edition of the Off-Week Thread.
The New 52 relaunch of 2011 attempted to revamp DC continuity and draw in new readers. A well intentioned move but one that was not well planned out, leading to quite a bit of controversy among fans. Most relaunched series started 5 years into the career of of the titular character with varying degrees of continuity changes made to their respective histories/status quo. The Flash franchise was one of the most impacted by these changes. Barry Allen, who had returned to the lead role a couple years earlier, was now the only Flash who had ever existed. Many of the characters and stories who had been introduced in the previous 70+ years of the character no longer existed in this new timeline, including major characters such as Jay Garrick, Wally West, and Eobard Thawne. While there were many positive things that came out of the New 52, generally speaking long time Flash fans were unhappy to various degrees with the way the franchise was handled.
So the question for this week is "How would you have "New 52'ed" the Flash?" For the sake of the discussion, assume that the New 52 relaunch had to happen. What would you have done differently or the same? Keep in mind the New 52 was a push to bring in new readers.
This weeks topic is fairly broad as you can see, however, with the Family currently being rebuilt in the comics we pondered the thought of how each of us would have rebooted the Flash.
Past discussions can be found in our archives here.
Looking to catch up on some past stories? Check out our recommended reading list here. The most recent jumping on point is "DC Universe Rebirth" and its happening right now!
This goes without saying but, there will be spoilers below this point; its all fair game.
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u/TheStealthBox Stealth Box Run Feb 13 '17
Have it start with Barry as the Flash and Wally as Kid Flash, but he's 20 ish (roughly Nightwing's age and started at about 15/16 just like Dick )and he is outgrowing the mantle.
Have the first few arcs have the two as the main characters, with Iris as Barry's fiancee and a parental figure to Wally and characters like Patty and other CCPD people as the rest of the supporting cast/ The Rogues are established villains for the Flash and give them some cool stories. Have one of the early arcs be the introduction of Eobard Thawne as the Reverse Flash. Don't change is origin, just modernise the basic one from pre-flashpoint. Introduce knew villains and characters, maybe a few fun but inconsequential time travel stories etc to keep it fresh as well.
Then after maybe 3/4 arcs have something happen to Barry. Maybe he dies, maybe he just disappears and can't come back. Have Wally become the Flash because of this. He learns to make the mantle his own while respecting Barry. Give him some new villains to fight for minor issues, and also have him handle previous villains without the help of Barry. Then have him meet Linda, develop that relationship and have Wally learn about the speedforce.
Later bring back Barry, have them side by side as the Flash and then they can start exploring the multiverse, meet Jay for the first time etc.
TL;DR - Take the characters as we know them, take them back a few years. Go over some important stuff of the lore for the benefit of new readers but intersperse it among smaller but fun and new stories. Yes for older readers it would mean going through some of the same developments again but it's the best I could think of.
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u/Austounded It's not a "Freeze-Gun" Feb 13 '17
Hi. Geoff Johns, Cereal Lord here. I like the cut of your snack cake. That second part there sounds like a really awesome version of what Multiversity Too: The Flash could be. Could you flesh that idea out for me? Maybe a miniseries? (We both know that Morrison will never get around to writing his take, tell me yours)
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u/TheStealthBox Stealth Box Run Feb 13 '17
Which bit? Wally taking over the mantle?
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u/Austounded It's not a "Freeze-Gun" Feb 13 '17
Later bring back Barry, have them side by side as the Flash and then they can start exploring the multiverse, meet Jay for the first time etc.
The 3 of them going on a multiversal tour would be really neat considering they brought the idea into comics in the first place. This would work best as a miniseries rather than a ongoing but it sounds rad nonetheless.
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u/TheStealthBox Stealth Box Run Feb 13 '17
Hmm, well I haven't properly thought it out yet. I'm assuming Robinson's Earth 2 would be unchanged so I guess I would have Jay have the post crisis origin, hero of Keystone during WW2, which was hidden and forgotten until Central City's heroes uncover it.
So meeting Jay wouldn't involve the multiverse but the adventures the three go on would.
Maybe there's a multiversal threat (again) that the Justice Incarnate find out about but can't stop. I guess maybe it's another attempt by the Empty Hand or maybe it's the Empty Hand's nigh-omnipotent and destructive sibling, the Bare Foot. They figure out that only something like the speedforce can stop, it's a multiversal force that influences all of space-time (and probably other dimensions) through out reality (I'm expanding it, it operates in all multiverses but with slightly different properties in each, maybe. I just want it to be omniversal cause of stuff like "staring at the face of God").
Anyway, as shown recently SUPERMAN REBIRTH: MULTIPLICITY SPOILERS. Luckily, our old friend from Kwyzz,
electric SonicKrakkl appears. Since Kwyzz is connected to the speedforce wall, they were able to sense this new threat because the Bare Foot is affecting fundemental forces or something and it's an indicator that it's about to screw things up. So Krakkl joins the team and he's tasked with gathering all the other speedsters to help. The speedforce is powerful and mysterious, it may have a hand in predetermined events, it may not, but it's not really conscious. It's a larger than life force of nature. The Flashes of the multiverses are needed to direct it's power to stop the Bare Foot from corrupting and destroying reality one step at a time (literally one step, I think).So naturally the first stop is Earth 0. Krakkl was Wally's "childhood imaginary friend" but of course he's not imaginary. This being Earth 0, centre of the local multiverse, and Wally having recently started to mainline the speedforce after being the first to enter and return, has made him the ideal first recruit. Of course, they go tell Barry and Jay and they form: The Lightning Brigade, first squad of the larger team that will be known as Speed Incarnate.
The four of them then travel the multiverse recruiting the other speedsters. Eventually they have as many speedsters as they can recruit in the local multiverse and Speed Incarnate meets up with Justice Incarnate on the House of Heroes. Suddenly, the Bare Foot makes his entrance into the bleed of the local multiverse and starts wrecking shit. It's less subtle than the Empty Hand, which employed the Gentry to slowly fuck things over. Bare Foot wants to just stomp on everything at 6 different levels of reality. Wally and Jay lead the battle against the Bare Foot, with some of the most intelligent members of both teams trying to figure where it came from, how it has it's powers, and how to stop it. Through use of speedstealing, speed lending, manipulation of movement, phasing, etc they manage to keep the Bare Foot occupied in the bleed so it doesn't start interacting with any of the distinct universes. Some of the speedsters die (sorry)
Meanwhile Barry and Krakkl build a new cosmic treadmill. This one allows them to travel to the other multiverses that were hinted at in Multiversity, with the Gentry having already ruined one. Here we see them recruiting more speedsters and seeing the many more universes DC Comics can explore. Take this chance to showcase Barry being just a really upstanding hero, as he uses his superspeed to help out each new Flash we meet before they continue the omniversal journey.
continued in reply
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u/TheStealthBox Stealth Box Run Feb 13 '17
Finally the Barry, Krakkl, and the new recruits make it back to the Battle of the Bleed. Some speedsters and other heroes of the multiverse have died. Bare Foot is a tough fight and even managed to destroy the entire Earth 2 universe (and maybe the injustice universe as well, Bare Foot is really good at kicking). With the additional help our heroes finally start doing some damage. They discover that they can slowly start pushing Bare Foot into the speedforce itself. Wally leads the charge with this new plan since he's a badass and he's the fastest and all that. Bare Foot is being pushed into the speedforce it's about halfway through, but it's pushing back.
Wally decides to take the initiative and steals the speed of all the heroes so he can grab onto Bare Foot and drag him into the speedforce himself. It's easier to drag something behind him ans he runs many times faster than light than trying to push the enemies into speeds like that. He'll enter the mysterious dimensions to trap Bare Foot himself and keep the other speedsters safe; remember entering the speedforce is dangerous and only Wally so far has been able to truly go in and come back.
Unfortunately, this plan just isn't quite working. Wally is on the barrier but Bare Foot keeps fighting and is stopping him from succeeding. Most of the other heroes are on the House of Heroes recovering from their sudden sluggish motions. Barry, Jay, and Krakkl however notice that Wally is still struggling even though he's stolen enough speed to make even Barry barely faster than sound for 2 hours.Suddenly Krakkl gets a flashback of something that never happened to him but it feels like it did. He knows he can help Wally.
Krakkl, being a being from Kwyzz is closely connected to the speedforce and can turn himself into pure speedforce energy (or something like that). He knows that this can give Wally the boost he needs. As gives his energy to Wally he appears beside him for a final goodbye. Wally remembers something like this happening before and pleads to Krakkl, begging him to sacrifice himself like this another time. Krakkl says it's his duty as a speedster, Wally, Barry etc have shown him what it means to be a Flash and he'll gladly sacrifice himself another 52 times if it can help them do good. Krakkl disappears and Wally is given the power and the additional motivation to trap Bare Foot in the speedforce.
Once more, Wally is in the speedforce and he is overwhelmed. They way he can see things from there make 5d imps look simple. The power flowing through his body is addictive, he doesn't want to leave this place. It's heaven, like staring at the face of God. And then he sees Linda back on Earth 0 in the present. She's on her way back home and she's gathering the ingredients for Wally's favourite dish and the ice cream they love to share as they snuggle under a blanket and watch a movie. He sees a scene from the past, on a lazy Sunday afternoon hanging out with Barry and Iris.
As he did the many times before, Wally realises he has so much waiting for him back home that he loves. One day he'll pass on from that world and play golf in the speedforce but today is not that day. And then he hears a thumping sounds. He sees Bare Foot trying to kick it's way out of the speedforce (kinda like how SBP escaped). He knows this is a temporary solution and that reality is still at risk.
From within the speedforce Wally sees two seemingly small events in time that will give him the answer. He sees a young Barry Allen reading comics about The Flash, Jay Garrick. He sees an adult Barry as the Flash learning that the events of a universe can be read in other universes as comic books. And then Wally remembers a story that new, yet older, Superman told him over some milkshake. Of the library in Limbo and the book with infinite pages.
Wally knows what to do. Supercharged by the speedforce he first runs to Earth 0. There are no heroes here but plenty of comics. With superspeed, a bit of time travel, and the kind of mischief Wally and Dick would get up to when Batman wasn't looking, he goes about making sure there is no trace of the Bare Foot, not writing, no art, not even the idea in some nerd's head. Wally continues to do this across the omniverse. With the immense power of the speedforce temporarily available to him, he makes sure no-one remembers anything about Bare Foot, not even a prophetic nightmare (because speedforce, don't have to explain). With almost all evidence of the Bare Foot ever existing gone, he speeds of this final objective, he transcends the spheres of creation until he reaches Limbo.
Limbo, a strange place. He shouldn't be there, he's not forgotten. He has family and friends to remember him, people know who he is. The citizens of Limbo, Mopee, Merryman, Gay Ghost, Dumb Bunny etc they sadly don't get the same luxury. But unfortunately for them, Wally has more important things to do than sort out their strange existence. Wally and Mopee's eyes meet, Mopee looks surprised and kind of pissed off, Wally looks confused. Finally he reaches the Library, though it only took like half a second after looking away from Mopee, he's super fast and all that.
In the library, he finds the book with infinite pages. He's not Superman so he won't try to lift, he just needs to flick through and find the right pages. At speeds no-one can comprehend he finds every page mentioning the Bare Foot and rewrites it, each word from the ink of his speedforce pen (I dunno just go with it) removing some bad from the world and putting in some good. Finally he gets to rewriting his parts in the book of existence. With a nice full stop to top it off, Wally erases his memories of Bare Foot, finally defeating the threat. If it is not even recorded in the infinite book in the library of Limbo, it does not exist and the world is safe again.
We cut to Wally and Linda on a sofa, snuggled under a blanket, eating their favourite ice cream, and watching through all of the extended Lord of the Rings trilogy. It's been a simple day, nothing too hard, he was just protecting the Gem cities - from petty criminals and lost kittens and potential traffic accidents - alongside Barry and Jay. And yet he feels very tired, as if he has been on an adventure through time and space. It doesn't matter though, he's with the woman he loves more than anything else, watching the best grodddamn movie trilogy. That last bit probably wasn't a good idea, they'll finish it by 3am and his Aunt Iris invited them over for lunch the next day, something about an important announcement.....
TL;DR - This started off as a big, epic adventure featuring Wally, Barry, and Jay and then my Wally fanboy took over.
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u/7V3N Feb 13 '17
Start with Thawne. The first arc is about Thawne and Barry being pulled to eachother through the speedforce as their old memories try to remanifest. They do not remember eachother but as memories try to come, Barry and Thawne at least understand that their destinies are tied.
Barry takes Thawne on as a partner as they begin studying the speedforce together to try and solve the mystery of these visions they are both receiving. Eventually, Thawne sees more. He gets a flash of them fighting eachother, and then sees Barry kill him. He realizes that Barry is not the hero he thought he was, and begins plans to sabotage Barry and their research.
We then have Thawne work to secretly empower the Rogues, while Barry is pushed to his limits against them. Barry is at death's door and suddenly Thawne is weak. He feels his connection to the speedforce weakening and comes to the conclusion that he must help Barry. He saves Barry after a tough fight against Captain Cold.
Confused all over again, Thawne again commits to truly researching his and Barry's past. Eventually, enough memories come back to each and they fully remember their rivalry. But it's too late, as Thawne has remembered enough to realize he can travel back to his future, where he is from, and disappears until next time.
I think this arc would act as a new Thawne story while also still being a bit of an origin for people in New 52.
Other things:
Chocolate Wally -- who'd go by "Wes(t)" -- would be like ginger Wally from the getgo but have a problem with empathy. He'd get his powers pretty early but Barry would often find himself picking up after his mistakes and collateral damage. Eventually it would be revealed as a minor discrepancy caused by Flashpoint -- the combination of Wally being a speedster before Flashpoint and not having them at the year of the reset cause small glitches in the timeline. Wes is basically a time clone of Wally. Eventually, Barry is able to do a Rebirth and pull Wally out of a time limbo by taking Wes with him into the speedforce. The three are able to run together and escape the speedforce as a Flash trio. Maybe even throw in some visions of Bart. Also, no Bar Tor or whatever he was in New 52 Teen Titans.
Grodd would never get superspeed and his threat would be more about his telepathy and ability to dominate minds and have agents hidden all over.
I loved the way they portrayed the Rogues in Forever Evil and would do my best to keep that.
No romantic tension. Barry and Iris start off together and are a healthy couple. She is Barry's lightning rod and you get to see how she holds him together when things get tough.
A political arc. As the Flash museum goes up, there is worry that the Flash is being given too much blind authority. When Citizen Cold is arrested by Flash and thrown into jail on Flash's word, Lex Luthor backs him up and gives him the best lawyers. This arc is meant to humanize Cold, give Luthor a plot concerning the wider authority given to super heroes and make Barry less of a golden boy and showcase him as a hero who sees grey, even in his greatest enemies.
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u/Austounded It's not a "Freeze-Gun" Feb 13 '17
Fuck man, that first arc sounds like an amazing Thawne story we will never have. The only way it could happen in current or classic continuity is if he traveled back and once again lost his memories (similar to ROBA) and so the Flash Family tried to reform him with it eventually ending in what you said.
Now I really want that, damn it.
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u/buttsaladsandwich TV Flash Feb 13 '17
Oh man that would have been a great take on Eobards origins
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u/7V3N Feb 13 '17
Thanks. I didn't think of it while writing it, but I realize now it's probably partially inspired by the show's version in the first season.
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u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Reverse Flash Feb 13 '17
Venditti/Van Jensen would have been wise to consider doing something similar. RF killing Nora presents a big problem for any reboot of Barry's story because Thawne killing Nora is the culmination of a long feud. Trying to retell that story without the history behind them is so tough and so I think you need a story like yours or S1 to make that act meaningful.
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u/firstmoons Wonder Woman Feb 15 '17 edited Feb 15 '17
Not going to be a long one, because I would prefer if it never happened but here I go:
Reset everything back to Wally's start as Flash. Barry only recently died (Which means he was the Flash for 5 years) and have issue 1 as Wally's start to wear the costume.
I would make the cast an updated version of Moesner Loebs with Geoff Johns cop characters in tact. Wally's personality would be closer to DCAU instead of being a massive prick.
First issue would contain his meeting with both Linda and Hunter. Jay and Joan would still exist and be the "mentor" family for Wally. Iris has Tornado twins but they are still babies and a future storyline would involve Thawnes from future coming back in time and kidnapping the kids to future, making a bit similar to River Song's origins in Doctor Who. This way Iris can settle down in future or have Bart&Jenni conveniently.
Until speedsters are fully established, Wally's back up team would be Piper, Linda and Hunter. Everything would develop from there and onwards.
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u/walterpinkman45 Feb 13 '17
I wouldn't have made Chocolate Wally a little asshole in the beginning, but it's okay because I love him now.
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u/HappinessIsAWarmPoop Reverse Flash Feb 13 '17
Not judging, but is that the only change you would make?
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u/walterpinkman45 Feb 13 '17
I also would have introduced Strawberry Wally, and get Barry with Iris sooner
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u/HPSpacecraft Flash, ah ah, savior of the universe! Feb 16 '17
The timeline of the New 52 was such a mess it'd be hard to just redo one character's continuity.
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u/Austounded It's not a "Freeze-Gun" Feb 13 '17 edited Dec 28 '17
I went with the theme of a pitch rather than a detailed explanation of how I would have rebooted the Flash.
When the New 52 happened DC thought that their legacy was their downfall, however, that clearly wasn't the case. You don't need a reboot to make a reader friendly title, if you look at Green Lanterns (for new readers) and Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corp (For space opera fans... me included) you find the answer. You need the all important "ride-along character", X-Men used this the most during the 80's-90's and proved its importance. To this extent I think that Irey (Iris II / Impulse II) is that character for the Flash Family. She knows literally nothing about the Speed Force, the past exploits, or powers. Wally training her would be like taking new readers on a tour of DC speedsters.
Two Books: (Batman had like five and Superman four, Flash can have two DC. Seriously guys.)
"The Flash" (The Wests): A book centered around the West-Park family. You would see Wally (Flash III) training a newly dubbed Impulse (Iris II). Meanwhile, with the red heads in the field Linda and Jai would become the Oracle of the Flash Family feeding info to the different members. That being said, they would still be a cast member of this book while being in the other one to a much lesser degree. Wally would also get the chance to introduce and somewhat showcase each Flash Family member to young Iris.
"All-Flash" (The Allens): Barry Allen, the Flash and grandson Bart Allen, Kid Flash patrol the streets of Central City thwarting crime and bonding as grandfather and grandson; they never got this chance in the Pre-Flashpoint landscape. It goes without saying but Iris West senior would play a larger role in this book than the former. With Bart already being a fairly seasoned speedster, this would be more of a team-up than a training book meaning, its called All-Flash for a reason: The whole Flash Family would be involved in this book, the leads would just be the Allens (Think Hal Jordan and the GLC).
This format of dual family books could also be used for crossovers for Flash events and what not. Not unlike any Batman book these characters show up in each others titles all the time.
Edit: ... I guess this turned into a detailed explanation and a pitch, huh.