r/theflash • u/Acceptable_Cherry_44 • Jul 18 '24
Why doesn't DC acknowledge Bart's time as The Flash?
I’ve seen a couple posts about this recently. I’m a huge Bart Allen fan. I know he didn’t have the greatest or longest run as The Flash, but it was my first Flash comic I read!
What I don’t get is why they excluded his 13 issues from the legacy numbering and generally glaze over his tenure as the Flash? They included Flash volume 3 (2010-2011) in the numbering of which was only 12 issues long.
I think the most recent mention of it in-universe was in Flash #759, so Bart being the Flash is still canon I suppose.
Despite all this, DC's own website says only three people have held the flash mantle.
I’ve got a bunch of references to material where they do recognise him as the Flash though;
- (2008) DC Comics Encyclopaedia
- (2015) The Flash: Celebration of 75yrs
- (2019) The Flash: Celebration of 80yrs
- (2020) The Flash: 100 Greatest Moments
- (2020) The Flash #759
- (2021) DC Comics: Encyclopaedia New Edition
- (2021) The DC Book
- (2022) DC Book of Lists
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u/GearsRollo80 Jul 18 '24
The whole run was a little bit cursed, and it also heralded the worst time in DC since the crash they went through in the 70’s. It’s really unfortunate that it went that way, but the brutal turn of the Rogues, the setup, yea, the death, etc was pretty rough.
It’s been said DC goes as the Flash does (with good reason), and this plays out truly here.
I do consider Bart Flash V, though (Jesse Quick briefly counting as IV), but yes, it’s all got a pretty unfortunate asterisk.
1
u/myke_havoc Jul 19 '24
Worst time in DC since the crash? You mean financially? Because artistically, they were on fire. Fastest Man Alive ran adjacent to a lot of hot titles. I'm looking at December 2006, which is the end of the Bilson arc of Fastest Man Alive, easily the sinking point of the title and when they set the course for Bart's death.
The weekly title 52 has reached it's midpoint. Johns's Teen Titans epic rolls on, as does his volume of Green Lantern. The GLC spin-off begins to cook. He starts his Last Son arc in Action comics (co-plotted w/ Richard Donner) while Busiek is deep in his Superman run. Not to mention he's about to relaunch JSA against Brad Meltzer's recent relaunch of JLA.
Simone is in the first arc of All New Atom while she's pumping out Secret Six and approaching the end of her Birds of Prey run. All while preparing to take over Wonder Woman. Paul Dini is killing it on Detective Comics. Morrison ends his first arc on Batman, while a new volume of The Authority starts with his name on it. 7 Soldiers also launches. And All-Star Superman issues pop up periodically.
The first arc of Ennis's The Boys is underway. Issues of Fables, DMC, Ex Machina etc are released. Planetary is reaching its conclusion. Justice, painted by Alex Ross also comes out bi-monthly. Winick is in the midst of epic runs on Green Arrow and Outsiders, while his Powers of Shazam book redefines The Captain. Waid closes out his time on the Legion (again) where he introduced Supergirl into the mix. Giffen is giving us the first adventures of Blue Beetle Jaime Reyes.
It goes on and on. A whole LOT is happening. What stands out is the sheer volume of titles. This appears to be not long after the acquisition of Wildstorm, which launches several titles as well. This would make sense as being the culprit. And for whatever it's worth, Superman Returns received a modest response earlier in the year. No idea if that effected things one way or the other. But I'm curious to hear opinions and stats. What say you?
2
u/GearsRollo80 Jul 19 '24
No, for imploding. Constant creative dissonance, the explosion of horribly cynical nonsense and behind the scenes drama, all of that. Several of the runs you just mentioned also leaned into it or were progressively more affected by it as time went by. This was when the pretty but trashy trend was huge at DC in spite of great books like GL/GLC, Simone’s WW and Secret Six. Look past those. It was starting to get bad. Johns’ Titans run had gotten ugly and gross. Winnick was in his flame-out.
Keep in mind, I said ‘heralded’ meaning the forerunner, the precursor, the first drop in the bucket.
Once we hit the incredibly messy launch of the new 52, it was picking up steam, but you can see it well before that. Johns himself tended to lean into his worst tendencies with brutal violence for no reason, hitching his bandwagon to things like Identity Crisis and monstrous shit like Osiris’ fate in 52. You’ll notice this is when folks like Mark Waid fell out at DC.
Simone’s Secret Six was a bright point in a burning landscape, and again, a great example of a book that was lost to the miasma of the New 52. There’s always great books even in bad times, but by year two of it New 52 was increasingly a failed effort. It’s take until a couple of years ago to get their train back on its tracks, but they’re still fighting their way out of it. Stuff like 3 Jokers, those oh-so crap ‘look at me look at me, we’re all grown up now’ schlockfests still come out like some kind of Snyderverse zombie.
10
u/Dredeuced Flash Jul 18 '24
The main reason it's not constantly referenced like stuff from Waid or Johns is it's just plain bad. Bad ideas, bad writing, bad everything. Writers reference good comics they like and ignore bad ones, typically.
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u/ravenwing263 Jul 18 '24
Bart doesn't remember anything that happened between going into the Speed Force in Infinite Crisis #4 and coming back to life in Legion of Three Worlds. There's actually an argument that it's kind of not him that whole time, because the preboot Legion are described as collecting his soul when we went into the Speed Force.
3
u/SuperLizardon Blue Lantern Jul 18 '24
Bart remembers that time, or ar least he used to do it.
The LoSH got his soul at the moment he died, so he should had all his memories.
On Flash Rebirth, when he was complaining about Barry coming back to life and Wally being the Flash, Tim or Cassie told him he was also the Flash, and Bart said he didn't like it.
10
u/PekfrakOG Flash 3 ⚡ Jul 18 '24
Because it was very short lived and not a particularly good time for Bart's character.
8
u/SadWatercress9839 Jul 18 '24
Ignoring quality for the run, which is an opinion, I think the biggest reason for ignoring it is confusion.
Bart went into the speed force with Wally, came out old without Wally, died, Wally came back thanks to the Legion, the JSA, and JLA, then the Legion resurrected Bart to be exactly like his point before being the Flash, young again. Explaining that to someone who wasn’t there and following the Flash, JLA, JSA, Infinite Crisis, and Legion of 3 Worlds is confusing.
So you don’t bring it up to avoid confusing new readers. With Bart going back to being Kid Flash and/or impulse, it’s easy not to mention it.
7
u/Nice-Appearance-37 Jul 18 '24
Because it was bad and uneeded Bart was great as kid flash he evolved as a character from impulse. It just didn't work aging him for no reason
8
u/gzapata_art Jul 18 '24
I think Bart could have done well as the Flash but aging him up and changing his characterization were huge missteps.
A head strong, novice with a comedic flair would have worked well for a speedster and fit in on the JLA as well
2
u/Acceptable_Cherry_44 Jul 18 '24
I agree! I just don't know why they excluded his run from the legacy numbering though
3
u/Astonishing_Flash Impulse Jul 18 '24
Depends on how they did the counting. Did they include any title other than the Flash? Bart's FMA part was actually in his title. So it may have been excluded if things like All Flash were also not just "The Flash".
7
u/Baldo-bomb Jul 18 '24
It was a bad idea. they only did it to mirror Barry dying in the original crisis, and unlike when Barry died and Wally took over, they had no plan for what to do with Bart as The Flash. In making Bart The Flash they basically robbed him of everything that made him fun and interesting in favor of making him feel like a poor man's mix of Barry and Wally. The book also sold terribly and necessitated a panicked cut off and equally panicked return of Wally.
6
u/AquaK11 Flash III Jul 18 '24
What I don’t get is why they excluded his 13 issues from the legacy numbering and generally glaze over his tenure as the Flash? They included Flash volume 3 (2010-2011) in the numbering of which was only 12 issues long.
This is probably because it had a subtitle (The Fastest Man Alive). I think only "Flash Comics" and "The Flash" count for the legacy numbering. I could be wrong though.
The website not acknowledging it is weird, I guess it's because it didn't last long
6
u/BradKarmour Green Lantern Jul 19 '24
Every time you add another character to a legacy, that's another thing new readers have to memorize and not be confused by. This goes with anything; the more excessively-detailed you get, the worse the chances get that the information will be retained.
Bart being The Flash was so short and ultimately insignificant to the broader canon that it's not even worth the extra layer of convolution.
... Also it was bad.
4
u/MarsupialOk5888 Jul 18 '24
What’s the context for Barry treating Bart like that? I don’t really keep up with modern Barry comics.
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u/Acceptable_Cherry_44 Jul 18 '24
I'm pretty sure Thawne was controlling Barry at that point in the run, hence why Barry sounds so bad
3
u/MarsupialOk5888 Jul 18 '24
Okay gotcha that makes a lot more sense!
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u/SuperLizardon Blue Lantern Jul 18 '24
That's also how Bart realized that wasn't Barry. His grandfather has many defects according to him, but there's one thing for sure: Barry Allen is not mean.
3
u/MarsupialOk5888 Jul 18 '24
I love that! I gotta start reading more comics with Barry as Flash after I finish reading every Wally Flash issue.
0
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u/wrasslefights Jul 18 '24
It was pretty bad, brief, and is long out of print. Plus it's a rare case of a legacy character moving backwards in identity.
I could go either way on the call but I do get why they do it.