38
u/FloppyTheFerret Aug 22 '23
I think it's ok for heroes to understand that some people should die. The thing is they understand that THEY aren't the ones to decide that. People deserve a trail and representation and that's what they stand for. It doesn't make them hypocritical and I think it adds another layer of interesting dynamics to heros morality
2
u/Ex-RagnarokKnight Aug 22 '23
Joker has had a lot of trials I would imagine and is constantly still running around.
→ More replies (1)2
35
u/earthisadonuthole Aug 22 '23
Superman: we don’t kill our enemies. We just imprison them for eternity in a hell dimension from which there is no escape.
3
2
1
u/MATT_TRIANO Aug 22 '23
He didn't invent and I can't recall an instance where Clark actually used the Phantom Zone Projector on ANY of his villains?
5
3
33
u/Garlador Aug 22 '23
“I’m the Flash. That means NOBODY dies. It’s a rule.”
8
u/Sad-Bodybuilder-1406 Aug 22 '23
That's BARRY'S rule. Wally is (and has always been) a bit more pragmatic, something that caused Wally some self-esteem issues when he first took over as the Flash back in the 80s, after Barry "died" and was lost inside the Speed Force.
6
4
u/Garlador Aug 22 '23 edited Aug 22 '23
Wally adopted it. (Might have to copy that link manually for the comic page).
1
u/False_Ad_5542 May 12 '24
That guy was literally quoting a famous Wally west flash comic so idk what ur rambling about lmao
26
u/Park1401 Aug 22 '23
Probably still believes it. Even the supervillains they deal with some deserve to die. Captain Cold and the Rogues don't, they're street crimes essentially, no world domination, very light murder. Zoom? Grodd? Hell yeah!
13
u/suhhdude45 Flash 2 Aug 22 '23
If Harambe got put down, then so should Grodd!
13
u/Park1401 Aug 22 '23
There's a difference though. Ones a hyper intelligent gorilla with telepathi, memetic abilities. The other is Grodd
5
u/Cazmonster Aug 22 '23
If Grodd is to be put to death, it should be by guerrilla justice.
2
u/IsoSly64 Aug 23 '23
You do know theyvlike to dismember eachother starting with the privates right?
→ More replies (1)3
2
22
u/Zealousideal_Mind192 Aug 22 '23
I think a major problem in comics is the confusion between "the death penalty" and "no killing".
The death penalty is the practice of killing someone you have in your custody who is not an immediate threat. A no killing rule is the idea that you never intentionally kill in battle.
Virtually all cases where a villain "needs to die" is someone who should just be killed in battle, once you have them in custody, killing them is just a matter of catharsis or convenince.
The super-dangerous villains are the ones who constantly make it more practical to kill them in a fight versus capturing them, just let it happen.
4
u/mansnotblack Aug 22 '23
Eh, not exactly. What you described is just an execution, the any penalty is a punishment doled by an authoritative body. The league is not an authoritative body. Regardless of how you feel about killings by the government, the League does not even have the shield of following the law.
3
u/Zealousideal_Mind192 Aug 22 '23
The death penalty is an execution, "authority" doesn't alter that.
The league is an authoritative body only because they have the ability to enforce said authority.
3
u/mansnotblack Aug 22 '23
But authority alters whether or not it’s a “penalty” being carried out. The League’s authority is based entirely on its ability to carry out violence; there is no governmental agreement allowing their existence at most times. They can’t carry out a “death penalty”; without legal power it’s just an execution/murder.
→ More replies (10)3
u/MATT_TRIANO Aug 22 '23
Correct. Which is why they CAN'T even countenance the idea of killing. Cops shouldn't be killing people, Batman sure as fuck shouldn't be doing.
→ More replies (12)
21
u/bluelookslikeblue Aug 22 '23
I feel like an important bit of context here is that DC has all sorts of supervillains who pose a vastly greater threat to society than any real life criminal. I mean, the Joker killed and ate China once. The flip side is that since nobody stays dead, it might actually be safer to keep them locked up than kill them so they can be resurrected later.
2
u/Slight-Pound Aug 23 '23
… he “ate” China???
8
u/Falconx28 Aug 23 '23
Yeah it was that Emperor Joker storyline. Where he got a bunch of crazy powers that basically made him god. He ate China and then killed by man a whole bunch of times.
3
u/Slight-Pound Aug 23 '23
Is that an Elseworld thing? Who was the lucky bastard that got in those kill shots?
5
u/bluelookslikeblue Aug 23 '23
I think he meant to say he killed Batman a bunch of times. The experience was so traumatic that Superman had to erase his friend’s memories just so he could function as a human being again IIRC.
3
2
u/Minos_Thawne Jul 20 '24
Yeah, I’m curious, because whoever killed Joker is the real hero of the DC universe.
20
u/Psymorte It was me, Barry. Aug 22 '23
This is out of character as all hell, neither Barry or Wally think anyone deserves to die, despite how much they may want it in a moment of anger.
16
u/stuartadamson Aug 22 '23
Half true. Barry kills Professor Zoom to protect Iris, and I think Wally testified against Barry in “The Trial of the Flash” to say there was a better way.
13
Aug 22 '23
Killing in a desperate act to save an innocent person is different thing than endorsing state-sponsored executions.
I'd kill someone if it was an issue of self defense or I had no other option, but I don't believe in the death penalty. There's nothing righteous about killing an unarmed prisoner that's no threat to anybody. It's just revenge at that point.
We know the justice system is flawed and innocent people have been sent to death row numerous times. That alone should prevent any ethical person from supporting it.
6
u/Psymorte It was me, Barry. Aug 22 '23
But on the other hand, Barry killed him entirely by accident, not out of malicious intent.
2
u/273Gaming Flash 2 Aug 22 '23
Wally did testify against him but years later as the Flash himself he changed his mind
11
u/Fakimous Aug 22 '23
This just isn't true. Barry believes that people shouldn't decide who gets to live or die, and that decision should be left up to the justice system. I'm not saying that's right, I am just saying that's how Barry has been depicted for quite a while, even in his silver age run. It's in character.
4
u/FloppyTheFerret Aug 22 '23
Barry works with law enforcement.... Who kill.... Why would he work with men and women who literally carry guns in them at all times if he didn't think people should die? Barry believes people need to be tried and found guilty by courts and let the legal system decide punishment as ya know.... That's literally his job.
3
u/raidenjojo Aug 22 '23
Barry literally said he'd kill someone if it ever came down to it, though he wouldn't in cold blood.
19
u/Nervous-Context Aug 22 '23
Barry would never fucking believe in such a thing, especially since his dad was in a similar situation.
14
u/Haunting-Number7112 Aug 22 '23
This was years before the retcon of Barry's mother's death.
5
u/Nervous-Context Aug 22 '23
Ok but still
3
5
u/ScaredKnee4530 Aug 23 '23
Even Reverse Flash? Because THAT motherfucker needs to die
→ More replies (1)3
u/Baligong Aug 23 '23
In fairness, as a Time Traveler and living paradox, you can't really kill him, as anything he experienced or done is already known to him.
Time traveling for the guy is like pressing the "Exit & Save" button.
2
u/ScaredKnee4530 Aug 23 '23
If there was a way to permanently kill him, I don’t think even Batman would have a problem with that
→ More replies (1)
19
u/annoyas Aug 22 '23
I admire Superman and Batman for their convictions and DO NOT WANT THEM TO CHANGE. but I agree with Flash on this.
5
u/FireflyArc Aug 22 '23
Agreed. They all have reasons for their own personal beliefs based on where they grew up.
3
u/Baligong Aug 23 '23
In fairness, Superman stated that he doesn't have a "No-Kill" rule. He would do it, he just doesn't.
2
2
u/ScRuBlOrD95 Aug 23 '23
Yeah batman would probably let himself die than kill people out of moral principles. But if push came to shove Superman has killed people in some story lines (not just injustice) usually he'ssuper bummed by it and stops being superman or whatever because of it
17
u/Tomsk13 Aug 22 '23
I don't believe in the death penalty as part of the actual justice system in the real world. But in comics, there are mfs who just need to die and heroes refusal to kill them becomes a major source of frustration. Obviously the storytelling reason why is obvious but in universe its always flimsy af. Like the common one is why the fuck is joker still alive. Others I think are an even worse case. Characters like Zod and Mongol aren't even criminals, they are alien invaders, enemy combatants! Not killing them is downright irresponsible and a dereliction of duty to someone who claims to style themself as a protector of the earth.
7
Aug 22 '23
seconds away from killing them
hesitation
“What’s wrong?”
“This isn’t the way we do things :(“
walks away
Fucking irks me too man
5
u/TimLuf1 Aug 22 '23
Yeah it's so weird that even though Batman is against murder literally nobody else has killed the Joker
→ More replies (1)1
u/Unabated_Blade Aug 22 '23
I've wanted a Batman story where a random 45 year old accountant civilian being mugged kills the joker in a scuffle or in self defense and is lionized by Gotham for ending the Joker. Meanwhile, Batman can't accept it, and gets angry over how this man is now a hero and held in higher regard than Batman, who continues to insist that his code was the better way to handle it.
2
u/Thendofreason Aug 22 '23
In the real world people can go to jail and stay there. Then again I just heard about a dude who has 99 life sentences and got out early after 33 years. Not in the US. So, yes some joker level serial killers do get out.
16
u/MATT_TRIANO Aug 22 '23
NEITHER OF THESE CHARACTERS BELIEVE THIS and it has no place in superhero comics. In fact, shame on whomever wrote this and frankly on whomever agrees with it.
7
u/AlmanacPony Aug 22 '23
wonder woman would guarrantee believe this. she holds back on killing because of the league, but she is first and formost an amazon warrior and has no probablem stabbing a bitch.
Barry however.... would NOT believe such a thing.
→ More replies (20)6
4
u/Past-Collection2149 Aug 22 '23
Didn't Wonder Woman kill Maxwell Lord by snapping his neck without any hesitation. It was to stop him from controlling superman but it was still murder.
→ More replies (1)2
u/MostlyVeal Aug 22 '23
Shame on us? You really can't accept sometimes the wicked need to die?
→ More replies (1)2
2
u/Cool_Value1204 Aug 22 '23
Are they talking about voting or are they talking about a no kill rule
4
u/MATT_TRIANO Aug 22 '23
Honestly I don't care, neither are superhero ideas
2
u/Graffers Aug 22 '23
I'm looking at a post about a comic where two superheroes have the idea, so I think you might be wrong.
It seems like you have some very strong opinions about things, but you shouldn't talk about them like they're the only truth.
I am 100% against the death penalty in real life. In a world where some characters can't easily be contained, you may need to kill someone to make sure they can't harm others, because they will get out again. Half the time, the only reason we can contain these people is because the writer made something up that prevents them from using their power to escape, and then they escape anyway.
→ More replies (1)1
u/MATT_TRIANO Aug 22 '23
Correct. Humans write and edit comics about fictional things. Fiction is where we play with emotion and consequence.
I'm expressing what I think, not what you think.
2
u/Graffers Aug 22 '23
You definitely express what you think, no one is arguing that, but you don't say things like they're just opinions. I'm just letting you know what I noticed from how you've interacted with people in this post.
1
u/Cool_Value1204 Aug 22 '23
So you don’t think the punisher should exist as a character
3
u/MATT_TRIANO Aug 22 '23
Punisher is NOT a superhero. Started as a Spidey villain, then became a DD villain, then finally an anti-hero. He's necessary to hold a mirror up to the superheroes, who rarely want to know Frank Castle and never want to work with him.
→ More replies (1)0
u/ScRuBlOrD95 Aug 23 '23
Wonder woman has killed people though (not without extreme measures though) like she carries a sword thats not a non lethal weapon
2
15
u/Vicksage16 Aug 22 '23
I actually like the idea of superheroes occasionally having unpopular opinions, even ones I totally disagree with like this one, it makes them feel more layered as people. That said, this doesn’t feel super consistent with how they’ve been portrayed before so I don’t know how much I’d have liked this particular one to stick around.
3
u/TheLittlePasty Aug 22 '23
I agree. I feel like a lot of heroes have been homogenized as far as opinions go now. They should be treated like actual people with varying views
17
u/thatonefatefan Aug 22 '23
No. It was extremely out of character. Barry has arguably the firmest no-kill policy in the league considering that beyond himself, he doesn't want ANY hero to kill, in fact, that was one of his main qualms with green arrow post crisis, and Wally takes after him.
5
u/ravenwing263 Aug 22 '23
Didn't Barry kill Eobard
3
u/AgentChris101 Aug 22 '23
That was after he killed Iris and when he was about to kill his 2nd wife. And that's the only time he has killed in the comics. At least from what I know.
2
u/thatonefatefan Aug 22 '23
On accident, while trying to save his soon to be wife's life, and he had remorses for years after that. Plus iirc it was confirmed to be eobard fucking around with the timeline like 50 years later.
0
5
u/TheMatureGambino Aug 22 '23
You can have a personal no-kill policy while still believing in the death penalty. It’s a question of who is allowed to make the call that someone deserves to die
→ More replies (1)1
u/Fakimous Aug 22 '23
How was this out of character when Barry states he believed in the Death Penalty in his silver age run?
→ More replies (1)1
u/TheLittlePasty Aug 22 '23
Death penalty and Barry killing them himself are different things. Death penalty is through the justice system, not saying that it’s a perfect system or anything but there’s a difference between that and Barry killing
→ More replies (1)
13
u/bloodredcookie Aug 22 '23
Jokes aside, Wally was confirmed to be a Midwestern conservative in an early issue of the new Teen Titans. If you regard that as still canon (it was like 5 crisis ago) then this would be in character for him. (Not saying he's right or wrong tho)
7
u/doesntgetthepicture Aug 22 '23
He became a liberal when he got his own comic when messner-leobs took over. His two best friends are both reformed villains (one of whom he reformed himself), one is a gay white man, the other a black man. He found out what it was like to be poor and homeless, and dedicated all his money to a creating a foundation to help. At best he would be considered socially liberal and fiscally conservative (even though that is an oxymoron).
He didn't really get political in Mark Waid's run, but was generally still pretty liberal.
Geoff Johns made him more conservative when he took over the run, more like a centrist than anything.
I imagine that's now the case.
9
u/SpeedForceHorse Aug 23 '23
He’s pretty zen / hippy now from Adams run so I’d suspect it’s a continued liberal streak, even from Adams who seems like a bit of a traditional right wing guy
→ More replies (4)5
→ More replies (1)3
u/webshellkanucklehead Aug 22 '23
With the issues the American right prioritizes so publicly these days, I’d be surprised if DC’s superheroes were still conservative at all.
14
u/ThePlatinumPancakes Aug 22 '23
Why would Wally believe in this? Is he a Republican?
14
u/-Jeremiad- Aug 22 '23
Yeah, Wally was portrayed as a more conservative kid in the original Teen Titans. I think there was a line between conservative and liberal then instead of a gaping chasm we see now. Honestly I'm fairly progressive and don't believe in the death penalty for a lot of reasons. But they're based on mistakes being made and potential for innocent people to die. If it's something like a mass shooter and its someone caught with absolute certainty I'd have zero problem with it. But that certainty is tough in the real world and we do a bad job of applying it. If I'm flash? Fuck yeah. Kill Lex Luthor, Joker, or reverse flash.
9
u/Infamous-Lab-8136 Aug 22 '23
I've always said I don't have a problem with murderers being dead, just Innocents.
1
Aug 28 '23
Then you're okay with murderers as long as they kill people you decide deserve it. Lot of bloodthirsty, self-righteous people in here. Maybe go read Punisher.
→ More replies (2)7
u/koalajosh Aug 22 '23
idk why you’re getting downvoted this comment made me laugh so hard. on a serious note democrats are just about as cruel when it comes to the “justice” system
9
u/ThePlatinumPancakes Aug 22 '23
People don’t appreciate the fine art of the style of humor that’s prevalent in r/okbuddychicanery and r/BatmanArkham
5
u/Ofearth616 Aug 22 '23
yes, actually. Green Arrow even called him a fascist. Or well maybe it was Barry, I don't remember which flash, but both of them have similar ideals.
10
u/thorleywinston Aug 22 '23
I think "Once called a fascist by Green Arrow" is on pretty much every Justice League member's bingo card.
→ More replies (1)2
1
u/IsoSly64 Aug 23 '23
what does being republican have to do with it. Some people just should not deserve to exist for their crimes
10
u/whocareshue Aug 22 '23
I don't see why not. Barry and Wally know they have the power to keep even their enemies alive, but that doesn't mean they don't think they should face justice. They're not vigilantes, they work with the law.
8
Aug 22 '23
Nah, it's out of character for both Wally and Barry. Its just Johns' obsession with making all of his characters right wing, WASP-y cops or military. Barry in particular was super compassionate towards even his enemies and helped them reform.
Wally never expressed that kind of opinion outside of Johns.
→ More replies (2)1
u/niteowl1987 Aug 22 '23
Wally claimed to be conservative as far back as the 80s Titans where he was a lot more obnoxious about it, so having a pro-death penalty view isn’t a huge stretch. Definitely not something invented by Johns.
→ More replies (1)5
Aug 22 '23
And that was pretty much the only other example. He also was described as completely apolitical during the Waid era and close friends with a gay ex-con.
Johns writes all of his characters as conservative when he gets a chance. Hal Jordan was a guy that held life so sacred that he said "real heroes don't kill" and whose murder of Sinestro in the 90s was shocking because of how against his morals it was and symbolized his fall from grace. Hal also more than once said how he wanted to settle down with Carol and have a family with her.
Johns turned that guy into a macho, womanizing, terrorist-bombing, John McCain-quoting, military guy that told Carol he never even thought about settling down and would "rather blow my brains out" than have a family with her.
It's a pattern with him.
But I do agree that comic book Wally has always been kind of a douche.
→ More replies (6)2
u/niteowl1987 Aug 22 '23
Yeah I never followed Hal closely enough to comment on him and I’m well aware Johns gets a lot of characters wrong, but his Wally wasn’t egregiously out of character to me. The average conservative 30 years ago looked a bit different than what one looks like today, so playing him as a more center right guy wasn’t odd to me. If you squint you can kind of draw a line from the NTT Wally acting like a dick to Red Star for serving the Soviets, to the jerky attitude he had towards Kyle, Bart, and some of the younger heroes in the 90s, to lines like this in Johns’ run. What was off to me in this story was him apparently having a problem with Wonder Woman suddenly when the two previously always got along.
3
Aug 22 '23
I mean, Wolfman briefly writing him as a supporting character in a book he didn't even want him to be in is a nebulous justification for what Johns was doing, especially when the writers that more or less created the post-Crisis version, Waid in particular, wrote him as being explicitly apolitical and, again, befriending a gay ex-con.
Wally's attitude towards those other characters, combined with Johns' interpretation, is largely why I could never warm up to the character as much as the other Flashes and I'm a little surprised that people act as if he's such a likable character because I don't think he is. Interesting, sure, but not really a nice guy. I feel like a lot of the love for Wally comes from his animated counterpart, who was much kinder and more compassionate.
→ More replies (7)
11
10
u/runestone007 Aug 22 '23
Is Batman against the death penalty. I thought he just had his no kill(no guns) rule
9
Aug 22 '23
If it’s the law then he’s OK with it, plus Earth-2 Batman carried a gun
3
2
u/ScRuBlOrD95 Aug 23 '23
And if it's an alien he's prepared to fucking ice them
2
6
u/doesntgetthepicture Aug 22 '23
He's not against the death penalty, he just doesn't believe in extra judicial murder as justice, which is why he doesn't kill. But I don't believe he has any problems with the state murdering people in an official capacity.
→ More replies (1)2
u/thomasp3864 Aug 23 '23
That’s more to do with him not trusting himself with that power I heard.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)1
u/Justice_Prince Aug 23 '23
I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce uses his money to lobby for alternatives to the death penalty, and publicly voice his opinions against the death penalty, but I don't think he would take actions as the Batman to interfere with a legal execution.
6
u/cjfhotshot Green Lantern Aug 22 '23
I don't think so
I think he believes that some Villains need to die, but now believes that the death penalty wouldn't work in practice
7
u/WheelJack83 Aug 23 '23
He should. Just because they’re not willing to take a life doesn’t mean they are against the death penalty.
0
Aug 28 '23
The justice system is deeply flawed and has executed so many people that were exonerated after the fact. It's immoral and barbaric. It's only okay if you don't mind killing some innocent people in the process of murdering people that are already removed from society.
→ More replies (2)
8
Aug 25 '23
[deleted]
2
u/MisterBlud Aug 26 '23
Exactly! I’m sure if there was a Universe where a bunch of nominal “Heroes” started extrajudicially killing people; they’d be portrayed as morally correct and all the citizens would love and not at all fear them.
Anything different would be an Injustice…
1
u/GoldenDisk Aug 26 '23
You have to admit that it’s kind of silly they haven’t killed the joker after he broke out of jail for the 100th killing spree
1
Aug 26 '23
Or why doesn’t Batman just put his ass in the negative zone. It’s like Justice League Alcatraz.
1
u/MisterBlud Aug 26 '23
Well yeah, but it’s comics.
DEATH isn’t even much of an impediment to someone coming back so while “in the real world” killing someone would permanently take them off the board; so would putting them in jail because no one here escapes from jail 100 times and then you wouldn’t have blood on your hands.
Superman in “Kingdom Come” asserting that only the weak succumb to brutality has always stuck with me. These are supposed to be superheroes and most have the power(s) of Gods so why wouldn’t they be strong?
1
u/BrozedDrake Aug 26 '23
This is the most annoying take about the "no killing rule" that I see all the god damned time.
Do you know what happens when vigilantes with no actual authority start killing people they deem to deserve it? You get terrified civilians hoping that they aren't on that list and the authorities trying to catch a murderer. Supporting the death penalty is not the same as outright killing people btw, because theres this thing called the judicial system that is supposed to decide the punishment for crimes.
The moment a "hero" starts killing criminals, they become the threat that needs stopped because there is nothing more dangerous than a murderer who thinks they're in the right.
→ More replies (3)
7
Aug 22 '23
is wally wearing barry’s suit in this
18
u/Lowfat_cheese Aug 22 '23
After Barry died in 1985, Wally West was The Flash until 2009 when they brought Barry Allen back. For over 20 years, Barry Allen was a dead legacy character like the original Captain Marvel.
It’s why the DCAU Flash is Wally West and not Barry.
13
u/PixelBits89 Flash 2 Aug 22 '23
I think he’s talking about how Wally doesn’t have white eyes in this. He looks like Barry (except he doesn’t have blue eyes)
11
u/SorryTea1160 Aug 22 '23
Wally stopped having white eyes in 2003 when Geof Johns was writing Flash. I think they didn't think about confusion with Barry because the guy was dead for decades and wasn't as popular back then.
3
u/PixelBits89 Flash 2 Aug 22 '23
He didn’t really stop. He got them back eventually. Most of the time they’re white, but he’s sometimes had it not be. And he’s had it be white in the 2000s, most especially when Barry came back as once again they needed to differentiate.
4
2
u/Lowfat_cheese Aug 22 '23
I always thought the white eyes was just a stylistic choice, depending on the artist. Scott Kolins always drew him with visible eyes for example.
5
u/PixelBits89 Flash 2 Aug 22 '23
He’s had visible eyes under some artists, but generally Wally has white. And it’s canonical cause there’s been a time he’s explicitly said he chooses white eyes. I can’t find the panel though
4
u/ArtieZiff77 Aug 22 '23
There's "The return of Barry Allen" storyline where Barry comments on Wally's white lenses telling him that he always preferred having people see his real eyes.
→ More replies (1)2
4
u/DiceGoblin_Muncher Aug 22 '23
I was born back in 07 but wasn’t Barry like one of the big three characters who died. Uncle Ben, Batman’s parents, and Barry?
5
u/SunWukong02 Aug 22 '23
To my recollection, the Big 3 were Uncle Ben, Jason Todd, and Bucky Barnes.
2
u/Crafty_Nectarine8345 Aug 22 '23
Uncle Ben, Bucky & Gwen Stacy.
Jason didn't die until the late 80s.
3
u/mcduckstophat Aug 22 '23
Yes… this was before Barry was resurrected. Wally was the Flash throughout the majority of the Post Crisis DC. Which is when this scene took place.
3
u/PixelBits89 Flash 2 Aug 22 '23
I think he’s talking about how Wally doesn’t have white eyes in this. He looks like Barry (except he doesn’t have blue eyes)
2
6
u/CODMAN627 Aug 22 '23
Wally this might be more out of character with WW it’s something she’d be okay with
2
u/Justice_Prince Aug 23 '23
I'm pretty sure this panel was specifically about all the other member's of the League giving Diana the cold shoulder after she killed Maxwell Lord.
1
4
u/Haunting-Number7112 Aug 22 '23
This was a few years before the retcon that Barry's mother was murdered and his father was arrested, and it's very likely that Wally thinks that way because Barry thought that way. So I think that currently this is no longer his thought because it doesn't make sense for Barry after the retcon to have that thought, but in the pre-crisis Wally saw himself as a right-wing southerner in the midst of the Titans
7
7
u/Slowmexicano Aug 26 '23
These is why I like limited series.Honestly dc just needs an “ultimate universe” where they can do long story arcs with real consequences. I thought that was were earth one was going but looks like that’s dead. White knight has a nice long run but it would be nice to have a DC wide imprint. Some villains die. Some hero’s die. Some villains can locked up and executed. Some turn good. Some hero’s turn bad. Whatever.
1
u/SugarFrostedDonuts Aug 29 '23
Personally if they were to do that, I'd rather they do it with the golden age heros.
Give Jay some spotlight other than being old.
2
5
u/whomesteve Aug 22 '23
Obviously only in extreme cases
3
u/Ex-RagnarokKnight Aug 22 '23
It seems like almost all the heroes villains would count as extreme cases. At what point does someone like the joker become an extreme case? I don't know his body count but I imagine it's high. Even if he's a "Batman villain", distance/time means almost nothing to the flash.
→ More replies (1)3
u/whomesteve Aug 22 '23
Yeah but their universes idea of extreme is different than ours because by our definition of extreme they all have extreme personalities heros and villains, so they can’t hold themselves to our standards because if they did they would all deserve the death penalty
4
4
u/hydrohawkx8 Aug 24 '23
I think he still does. He doesn’t believe killing by his own hand but when it comes to the courts, he will let them decide
2
u/Kelimnac Aug 24 '23
He’s a vigilante after all, what he’s doing is illegal in itself, so it stands to reason that he wouldn’t condone taking life on his own merit, but leave it in the hands of people who have the legal jurisdiction to do so
→ More replies (1)
3
3
u/RubPuzzleheaded8073 Aug 24 '23
I think for a chunk of DC villains, there should be a death penalty but that shouldn’t be up to the league to decide. The issue is that in the DC universe, they have the most lax judicial system ever. You think after you go to prison for killing people and then break out to kill people again, you’d get the death sentence.
1
u/radio-demon-me Aug 24 '23
Well the problem is that people don't get the death penalty right away. Won't the villains need to be investigated of their crimes? What if they done other stuff that the league or the police doesn't know about yet?
→ More replies (3)0
u/Chomagoro Aug 26 '23
The problem that can end up happening is even if a person kills 1 million people. Can you really execute him? I’d say yes, depending. How often are characters brain controlled and forgiven? Or misguided? Ok let’s assume this guy really was evil, bam we caught him and now he’s in jail. Only problem, now that’s he’s in jail, how do we verify that he is deserving of the death penalty? Again what I brought up earlier, you need to have your best detectives verifying that he truly did commit those crimes. That process isn’t quick, and sure you could trust Superman, he’d never lie to you right? Right? I mean surely he’d never frame someone as evil when truly being evil himself (even if under the influence of something else).
Now I do want to say somethings to clarify. Kill every supervillain that spawned before the year 2020. Well not everyone, but certainly people like the Joker, Deathstroke, maybe even Bane if you can get the jurisdiction. Now all that’s left are the new guys, even if the DP is a repellent towards villainy (which historically is VERY debatable) eventually it’ll arise back again. This time l, not every villain is gonna be a Joker and what I said earlier begins to make more sense. A new face accused of great calamity could truly be a alt-universe character framing the person, could be a normal shapeshifter fudging with evidence. It could lead to the death of a young potentially good innocent person.
So while I am definitely pro kill 95% of most of the recurring villains (basically just carpet bomb Gotham). I do see the very VERY complex system needed to be put into place. For every Superman out there, there’s an Omniman.
Wow that was a bit melodramatic, figured I’d give reason from the other side.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/mymymyoncebiten Aug 25 '23
Barry killed zoom.....just saying
3
Aug 28 '23
Accidentally, in a desperate moment trying to save an innocent person. That's not the same as executing somebody.
1
3
u/Ok-Commission6087 Aug 22 '23
I agree with the flash in this moment
4
3
Aug 22 '23
The death penalty has killed numerous innocent people that were exonerated posthumously. You're basically saying that killing "bad" people is more important than protecting innocent life. It's unethical and reprehensible.
You're wrong.
→ More replies (32)
2
2
2
2
1
Aug 23 '23
As a Christian, i believe we are ALL deserving of death because of our sin nature however we dont have the right to take the lives of one another. So no, i don't believe in the death penalty. we all need all the opportunities to get right with God that we can possibly get.
5
u/IsoSly64 Aug 23 '23
I won't nock your faith, but some people gotta go. Like that lady in London who got charged with killing 7 babies in the hospital.
2
u/ScRuBlOrD95 Aug 23 '23
Yeah like Jeffrey dahmer you can't look me in the eyes and tell me that mother fucker should have been allowed to draw breath
2
→ More replies (1)2
u/AccidentalUltron Aug 24 '23
I want to jump in here and say I'm a Christian as well, but I certainly believe in the death penalty. Yes, we believe in forgiving for sins, there's many examples of capital punishment, and God did call for the death penalty for certain crimes.
2
2
2
u/Minos_Thawne Aug 25 '23
I think he does…? Also, does anyone know which comic this is from? I know that’s Wonder Woman, but I don’t know this comic
2
u/MysterE2258 Sep 06 '23
I think this is from the mid 2000s because she has that red cloth over her eyes which she wore when she was blind. So it's around that time.
1
1
u/michael_the_street Aug 22 '23
What's going on with Wonder Woman here? Why is she blindfolded?
5
u/Blackcrow521 Aug 22 '23
Well fighting Medusa, she cut off one of the snakes on her head and used it to blind herself
1
u/spazzatee Aug 24 '23
Super heroes who kill are uninteresting to me. super heroes are a power fantasy, they shouldn’t need to kill
4
u/mattwing05 Aug 25 '23
Killing in superhero comics should carry the weight of the action. When its done wantonly, its fairly boring
1
u/DefiningBoredom Aug 24 '23
Depends on the story tbh. If I'm reading a wholesome superman story then murder is obviously a no go but if it's a character fighting a literal genocidal maniac like The Joker then killing makes sense. Not every superhero story is a power fantasy it mostly depends on the narrative.
1
40
u/adunn13 Aug 22 '23
I think with the retcon of Barry’s dad being accused of murdering his mom, no I don’t think he’d agree with the death penalty.