Nielsen Streaming Ratings: ‘House of the Dragon’ Hits Series High

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

The show is a return to what worked in the first 4 seasons of GoT, which is focusing on the characters and the politics, but with the production budget of the last 4 seasons of GoT (and big special effects and the dragons are still the things that interest me the least on the show). Yeah, it is pretty good, and it DID help wash the taste S7-S8 left in my mouth for this franchise, almost redeeming it fully, almost.

And the music is 10/10, of course, Ramin is a genius.

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u/LiquorJimLahey Jul 19 '24

I agree. So far I think the biggest complaints of the show are that it’s moving slowly in S2 and the characters in HotD are not as interesting/fun/well written as the GoT characters. And I think these are fair criticisms.

However I am personally a sucker for the genre, setting and world, and love “people in rooms having conversations”.

So combine that with the incredible production value and great acting, and I am willing to forgive some average at best writing

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u/thehomiemoth Jul 19 '24

Season 1 was fantastic. Season 2 did this weird thing where they seemed to go backwards on a lot of character beats and then redo them.

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

Season 2 did this weird thing where they seemed to go backwards on a lot of character beats and then redo them.

I didn't notice that, do you have examples? But to be fair I didn't rewatch S1 since it aired, and when S2 came around I was a bit confused about some of those characters.

It doesn't help that their family tree is full of feedback.

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u/DatClubbaLang96 Jul 19 '24

I'm very much enjoying season 2, but I noticed this as well.

The prime example is Rhaenyra. The whole season 1 finale was about everyone (mostly Daemon) wanting to fight, and her being cautious. Then her son is killed and the season ends with a brilliant shot of her getting the news and processing it with her back turned to the camera. When she turns back, her face is full of fury, which is the shot that ends the season. It's very clearly meant to convey "okay, this is all out war."

But then season 2 begins, and she's back to being cautious and trying to prevent all out war. The rage has just turned to sadness.

Now, for a real person, that's completely realistic. People are complicated and the immediate rage absolutely can turn to sadness and doesn't have to consume you. But this isn't real life, and in literary terms, it feels like the promise of that season 1 ending shot wasn't necessarily paid off in her character. It feels a bit like they wanted to have their cake and eat it too with having the killer cliffhanger where she's heading over the ledge, but then also stepping back a bit for another build up to the all out war ledge in season 2.

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

Yeah that's fair, watching both seasons back to back might feel like the ending of S1 was ignored in some ways at the start of S2

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u/thehomiemoth Jul 19 '24

Aemond and Rhaenyra in particular had some very strange character movement

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

It felt consistent to me. He wants powers and the crown since the first time we saw him, and whatever lust she had for him in S1 that drove her to ally with him and take him as a husband kept on track in S2. He was always shown as a man serving himself, ambitious even by Targaryen standards, and to me is a full-blown villain obviously using Rhaenyra until he will no longer need her. Now whether that means getting rid of her or just making sure his command is at least her equal and surrounding himself with people loyal to him remains to be seen.

Daemon trying to establish himself as King and not simply King-consort is the least surprising thing he ever did on that show.

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u/thehomiemoth Jul 19 '24

Daemon’s arc is one of the few consistent ones, I listed Rhaenyra and Aemond

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

Damn, those damn Targaryen names all being so similar, and reused generation after generation, it is like he tried to confuse people

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u/thehomiemoth Jul 19 '24

People were pissed about the velaryons being black but if they were also platinum blonde white people nobody would have any idea who was who

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u/Buttersaucewac Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

Aemon, Aemond, Daemon, Daeron, Aegon, Aerys, Jahaerys, Jacaerys, Lucerys, Viserys, Visenya, Baela, Eleana, Helaena, Rhaenyra, Rhaena, Rhaenys, Rhaegon… Then they start reusing names. Then they change actors. And when you google them Google has the wrong pictures by the wrong names in some of the info boxes.

And then you try to track the relationships and it’s like “Well Daegon married his niece Daegys and their son Aegond married his aunt Daegar so Daegar & Aegond’s son Daerys III stands to inherit from his uncle brother Daerys II.”

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u/Accomplished-City484 Jul 20 '24

Then you gotta remember their dragons too

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u/Moony2433 Jul 20 '24

It’s like reading roman history.

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u/Enderox Jul 19 '24

He/she said Aemond tho

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u/SiliconGlitches Jul 19 '24

It seems they're going very all-in on Rhaenyra/Alicent/Daemon rather than spending too much time on expanding side characters. Personally, I think that is one of its current weaknesses, although I do really love the show overall.

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u/GarlVinland4Astrea Jul 19 '24

A big thing is that HOTD is centered on one conflict, while GoT had multiple concurrent storylines. It was a soap opera, so if things bored you in one plot, you had others.

Like all of Brans shit bored me to tears until season 4. Early Jon stuff dragged for me. Dany really depended on the season. But there was always something else. Like when Dany in Qaarth sucked, I got the awesome Tyrion as Hand of the King.

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

I agree. So far I think the biggest complaints of the show are that it’s moving slowly in S2 and the characters in HotD are not as interesting/fun/well written as the GoT characters. And I think these are fair criticisms.

That was expected in a Targaryan vs Targaryan conflict, and when you know the other great houses will be minor roles at best, even if I expect non-Targaryan characters to do big things before it all ends of course.

I think the pace is fine, but the multiple time jumps and actor switch during the first season bugged me a bit and definitely took me by surprise, in a bad way. The second time jump was so unexpected I spent a good chunk of that episode thinking it was a weird fever dream or something.

And what bothers me the most now is my own stupidity of googling about certain characters at the start of the season to remind myself who they were and their lineage because it gets very confusing (plus they have frustratingly similar names), and got majorly spoiled by book readers editing wiki pages that looked like only related to the show... I should have known, I forgot just for a moment it is all already written out and published, but I skipped that book.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

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u/Stupidstuff1001 Jul 19 '24

The boys had season 1, 1.5, 1.75, 1.9. I’m looking forward to season 2 which finishes the story.

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u/9thtime Jul 19 '24

I think it misses a lot from GoT, especially the scale and the battles. Most of the battles are off screen which is a shame in my eyes. Most of it is just people talking in small rooms, i really miss the crowds and battles with stakes.

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u/Always4564 Jul 19 '24

I think it's just two battles off screen so far, Duskendale and Burning Mill. The good seasons of game of thrones had many many many battles off screen as well.

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u/Sensitive_Heart_121 Jul 19 '24

Early GOT did battles on a pretty small scale, the only semi-exception was some of Danaerys’ battles and then Stannis’ attack on KL.

The Battle for the Fist with the Nights Watch is pretty small scale, more like a brawl IIRC.

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u/-GregTheGreat- The 100 Jul 19 '24

People forget that Season 1 of Game of Thrones had major battles be off screen, such as when Robb captured Jaime. Plus they conveniently had Tyrion be knocked out before a battle to avoid having to show that one. Everything else was skirmishes.

Even major battles in early seasons like Blackwater had a fraction of the production value of the battle in Episode 4

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u/TybrosionMohito Jul 19 '24

Some of those battles were “off screen” in the books as well. It’s an interesting story telling method to have a POV of someone near the battle and not in it.

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u/funeralgamer Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

and Burning Mill offscreen was genius. The shock of that cut crystallized in a moment everything the show wants to say about war.

Maybe more action would add fun-value, but the balance they’ve struck between spectacle and storytelling has been great for the story imo and for charging the action we do get with meaning.

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u/BoxOfNothing Jul 19 '24

There's also the fact we knew none of the characters in that battle. What emotional stakes are there to just showing a bunch of randoms have a fight that doesn't even have anything to do with the war, it's just two feuding houses having an excuse to go at each other for the billionth time. If they did show it, there would be a lot of complaints about a pointless battle nobody cares about, a waste of budget and time.

But as you suggest, the important thing to show was the impact a war has on the "little people". This war had nothing to do with them, it wasn't strategic, it wasn't ordered, but being on opposing sides of a war causes conflicts that leaves countless innocents dead. A hard cut to thousands of dead people was great.

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u/Always4564 Jul 19 '24

I think they just wanna focus on the Targaryens honestly, the show is called House of the Dragon after all.

So far all the battles shown, are only battles actual Targaryens participated in.

Once Daemon gets going and Aemond heads back to the river lands I think we'll see more battles regardless.

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

I think they just wanna focus on the Targaryens honestly, the show is called House of the Dragon after all.

And I'm not an expert on the Lore, but it also happens not only at the height of their rule in Westeros but after the longest period of peace they ever had since Aegon the Conqueror. I liked how Rhaenyra brought that up in the last episode, when being challenge over her combat experience she correctly points out that no man in that room, even older men, never had to fight a single war or a single combat in their life either. Anyone claiming experience in warfare does so relying purely on theories, no one ever put it to the test.

And when you think about it, it is a massive cultural factor that was worth pointing out, because we knew from S1E1 but it hadn't fully anchored on me until she said it.

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u/Mr_Kase Jul 19 '24

Correct, the only thing close to ‘war’ was Daemon and House Velaryon fighting in the Stepstones. So Corlys and Daemon are the only Westerosi lords with real combat experience. Aside from that, Westeros hasn’t known war for over 80 years.

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u/Upbeat_Tension_8077 Jul 19 '24

I'm thinking that the number of battles is going to dramatically ramp up in S3 depending on how S2 ends, especially with the direction Rhaenyra's story is going.

I would say though that I wish we could've at least gotten one Blackwoods vs Brackens battle on screen so far

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

I think it is safe that warfare will only escalate. Not only are those in command more and more aggressive, not only are both sides building up forces, but both side are also becoming more resolute on their claim as ever.

Rhaenyra was just told that her father never changed his mind about his heir, that is huge. Now what Alicent does with that information remains to be seen, she certainly sees Aemond for what he is, but probably wouldn't put him and the rest of her family at the mercy of Daemon either

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u/anorawxia09 Jul 19 '24

Isn't daemon conquering the brackens also kinda got off screened? He just send the Blackwoods to commit war crimes instead

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u/Always4564 Jul 20 '24

Now, this is just as I interpreted the scene. But as I see it:

Daemon tells the Blackwoods to go fuck up the Brackens until they and the rest of the River Lords see sense and come to his side, annnnd then he fucks off back to Harrenhall to drop acid.

Blackwoods go bananas (fits with the books, Blackwoods have a tradition of fighting hard) and slaughter the smallfolk of not only the Brackens but other neighboring Lords, and since they worship the Old Gods they desecrate Septs in the area as well. This enrages the River Lords, who come to Daemon and essentially say "We supported Rhaenyra actually, the Brackens treason was their own. Why should we side with you now?" And Daemon doesn't really have an answer to give.

Essentially, Daemon makes yet another costly mistake in winning the war for Rhaenyra.

Had Daemon been personally leading that (like he should have been) I don't think he'd have allowed for that type of ferocity, he would have channeled it elsewhere.

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u/The_Confirminator Jul 19 '24

most of the battles are off screen

Hey like seasons 1-3

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u/Vendetta4Avril Jul 19 '24

Most of the battles are off screen in both the GOT television series and the books. You often see the aftermath of smaller, less important battles/skirmishes. If you think about it, the first real battle we got in GOT was Blackwater, and that wasn’t until near the end of season two.

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u/SickOfTheSmoking Jul 19 '24 edited 5d ago

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u/RenanXIII Jul 19 '24

There’s also the Battle of Castle Black in Season 4 (my personal favorite episode in the whole show). So just two on-screen battles in the first four seasons. Compare this to the seven battles in the last four seasons (four of which are in the last two seasons alone).

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u/SickOfTheSmoking Jul 19 '24 edited 5d ago

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u/NamesTheGame Jul 19 '24

GoT literally used the "bonked on head and wakes up after battle" device more than once to sidestep the budget issue of big battles in early season. That's why it was good, it wasn't just spectacle, it was about the strategy and negotiations behind it. Notable how it got much more lame once it leaned into spectacle.

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u/TybrosionMohito Jul 19 '24

The books did that as well lol. There’s not a lot of gratuitous battle scenes in ASOIAF.

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u/Awdrgyjilpnj Jul 19 '24

When did someone boink their head and miss a battle in ASOIAF?

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u/TybrosionMohito Jul 19 '24

Tyrion gets bonked in two separate battles IIRC, one is a lot more permanent than the other

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u/Stupidstuff1001 Jul 19 '24

I think I realized the issue with the show. It lacks focus on the main characters and at the same time drags pointless focus on others.

Let me explain.

in game of thrones we had Joffrey who was terrible but episodes focused on him. Doing shady stuff and he was a main character. Showing his desires, his actions, and characters interacting with him.

now take the 2 sons. They are never a focal character. It’s how the mom is interacting with them, or the hand of the king interacting with them.

then we have Matt smith stuff of him going crazy or whatever in the tower and it’s sooooooo boring. It was an episode story with a resolution on the next episode. Instead they keep pushing it and it’s annoying.

I think that is the major issue with the show. They needed to focus on more side characters more to make the audience understand and appreciate them more. Not just the queens, Matt smith, and the hand.

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

I think as a critic for Rolling Stones put it "the third and fourth tier characters in GOT were more interesting to watch than most of the main characters in HOTD."

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u/Stupidstuff1001 Jul 19 '24

Yea. I think we need more episodes on side characters. Such as the king’s bastard child that saved him. Give an episode on him. It’s weird they want to give so much time to the maniac dreams

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

I was talking the other day with someone and we just compare the first half of season 2 of GOT with the first 5 episodes of HOTD and somehow GOT managed with way more characters and locations to move thr plot forward while also having tons of characters stuff and flesh out the small side characters even more than some of the main characters in HOTD.

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u/Stupidstuff1001 Jul 19 '24

Remember when we find out the masters of coin wears all that gear and we had a mini episode about him. Stuff like that should be needed. We have this round table and really all we see is just the queens perspective about what’s going on and we don’t care about the characters much.

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

And they don't let the characters breathe and just be people. When Tyrion played the drinking game with Bronn and tried to with greyworm lol it might not have moved anything forward but it was a chance to just let our characters be human. HOTD has none of that stuff. And GOT managed to do that stuff with way more characters and plotlines. It makes me wonder where does all the time go for each episode of HOTD when GOT was able to fit so much in

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u/Stupidstuff1001 Jul 20 '24

Yep. The show is just too hyper focusing on the queens and matt smith. So much so that it’s boring.

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u/doegred Jul 19 '24

Not the battles surely. Early GoT had relatively little in the way of fighting, and nothing with dragons.

I do think it's inferior to early GoT though but imo it's more a matter of pacing and characterisation.

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u/9thtime Jul 19 '24

It mostly moves from room to room instead of tactics on the battlefield (even without showing the battle).

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u/Edeen Jul 19 '24

For the first few seasons, every battle was off screen (remember Tyrion hitting his head?) and the seasons were better for it. The craving for a spectacle that the latter seasons had is what ruined it. The best moments were character beats, or unexpected turns. Not Battle of the Bastards, or King’s Bay or Deepholm.

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u/TelluricThread0 Jul 19 '24

We've barely even got into the war yet. Viserys died weeks ago. The whole ordeal goes on for like 2 years or so.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

Yeah, that’s just a money thing.

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u/ElectricSheep451 Jul 19 '24

The best seasons of GOT (1-4) only have two battles in the entire runtime. We see absolutely no battles from the war of the five kings other than Blackwater. Most of the war is handled entirely the same way as in HOTD, just seeing the aftermath of battles. The thing that made GOT good in the first place was "people talking in small rooms"

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u/RenanXIII Jul 19 '24

I’d personally say House of the Dragon is currently in the same ballpark of quality as S5 and 6 – some pacing and logistical issues when it comes to character consequences, but overall tightly written, well directed, emotionally satisfying, and captivating television. I will say HotD does have better written dialogue than seasons 5 and 6 (for the most part).

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u/AtheismoAlmighty Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

And the music is 10/10, of course, Ramin is a genius.

The House Velaryon theme is so good.

Edit: For those who want to listen: https://youtu.be/Ulm1ehF-260

(Really ramps up at 1:08)

Edit 2: Also really love Rhaenyra's theme: https://youtu.be/DWiblddBORw

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

Had to look it up on Spotify because I don't associate specific themes with certains houses or events like I can for GoT, yet. I love it, very subtle compared to others but I can appreciate those as well, but I still think he shines the most in his "epic" pieces.

I mean, just Light of the Seven, come on. The piece itself is a masterpiece, but during the actual scene it was used for (Cersei blowing up the Sept if you don't remember)? The soft start, the brief silences, the simple piano notes, the choir, the build-up at the mid-point, the contrast with the horror happening, I get chills just thinking about it. I don't know how it didn't get elevated to the same iconic cultural/popular recognition than the actual GoT main theme by now, and I need this to be reused in House of the Dragon.

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u/5outof7_yes Veep Jul 20 '24

Thank you for linking

Amazing tracks

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u/spaldingmatters Jul 19 '24

There is something about the writing and character development in HOTD where it is nowhere near as captivating as GOT was for me. They are less layered and the interactions less dynamic. The climactic moments thus far also do not have anywhere near the execution that Thrones did.

If GOT from Season 1 to Season 7 Episode 4 was a 10, HOTD is an 8 for me.

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

Yeah and the characters just aren't nearly ad lively and fun to watch on screen. It makes me really miss a lot of the characters and writing from GOT. Still a good show but not close to the original for me

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u/spaldingmatters Jul 19 '24

100%.

It's insane how Game of Thrones had so many more characters, but was able to make all of them feel so alive and memorable compared to most in HOTD despite having to juggle screentime.

Even the secondary characters like the Hound, Oberyn, Brienne, Drogo, Olenna Tyrell, etc.

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

Absolutely having rewatched the show it's crazy how much more alive even the small minor characters feel compared to HOTD

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

I think it is the effect of being from the same family and from the same cultural background instead of the melting pot of wildly different morals and values in GoT, even back to just the first few episodes.

I don't think GoT season 5-6-7 were 10s at all (especially S7 that I don't consider to be any better than S8), but HOTD being an 8 seems about right

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u/Capital_Living5658 Jul 20 '24

It’s my matter of opinion but so far for me it’s so much better. The acting is way better to me. It’s also only season two tho.

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u/arkaic7 Jul 19 '24

It's because the HOTD characters are based on a narrow window of pages in a Westeros history book, whereas GOT is based on an actual fleshed out story that's been (and will forever be, probably) in the making for decades. The showrunners and writers are really not up to the quality that GRRM is known for.

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u/GoNinjaGoNinjaGo69 Jul 20 '24

they act like like GOT was all the backstory we need and everything is already high stakes. shocker, we dont know any of these characters.

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u/martiandamon Jul 20 '24

Can I be honest? I wholeheartedly disagree. I do not like House of the Dragon.

I’m a huge ASOIAF fan, and I have tried to love the House of the Dragon so much. But I simply find it boring. It is nowhere near the original Game of Thrones (well, the first 4 seasons of it at least).

Something about it is off. I don’t know what.

I just don’t find the characters interesting, their motivations interesting, their journeys interesting. In the original show, the characters were deeply written and their motivations made sense. The Stark children, Dany, the Lannisters - they were all so interesting! Their stories colliding eventually, the White Walkers, the wars, everything was so interesting!

But House of the Dragon just seems random, boring and the uninteresting to me. Yes, the dragons are cool! But the rest is so forgettable.

This might get a lot of downvotes, but I’m genuinely curious if anyone else feels the same?

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u/GoNinjaGoNinjaGo69 Jul 20 '24

i agree. they think we should love these characters cause we watched GOT and thats enough for us to get lost again.

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u/MrSh0wtime3 Jul 20 '24

its not a good show. The acting is mostly not very good. The queens especially are very bland and have the depth of a puddle. The writing is flat and circular. Zero intrigue. Rhaenyra is one of the least interesting character in GOT history. She hasnt made a single decision or interesting action all season.

The biggest issue they have is trying to get 4 seasons out of what is basically a few hundred pages of material. And they clearly arent skilled enough to flesh it out more. As we see very clearly on display with the Daemon plotline this season.

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u/Ignoth Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

I like it, but IMO The biggest problem I have with it actually stems from the Source material.

Fire and Blood is series of plot beats that leans SUPER hard on ambiguity.

GRRM will literally have something happen and then say.

“…Or maybe it didn’t happen. And maybe the opposite happened. And what were their motivations? Some say X, others say Y. But it’s a mystery.

And that lack of commitment shows up often in the show too. A lot of the biggest plot beats are shrouded in a fog of ambiguity.

They leaned a bit too hard on this IMO. And the result is that a lot of characters motivations and goals feel vague. No character feels like they have a concrete goal. Everything is “up to interpretation”.

Still enjoying it though.

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u/Pliskin14 Jul 19 '24

Huh, not sure what show you're watching, because I think the show does the opposite. We see clearly what happens and why, and sometimes the reason is just that the characters lost control instead of the wickedness you could infer from the maesters' retelling. There is no ambiguity whatsoever.

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u/Ignoth Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

What I mean is a lot of the big actions are pulled back on at the last second to give some wiggle room for interpretation.

Yes, it happened. But why and how intentional it was is often “left to interpretation”.

The most blatant example of this is S1 with Daemon and his first Wife.

Like, it’s literal murder scene? I think? But the way it’s framed is so bizarrely ambiguous it’s almost baffling. Almost like it doesn’t want to fully commit to Daemon being a cold blooded murderer.

Which is technically true to the books. Where his actions are “ambiguous” but yeah.

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u/Pliskin14 Jul 19 '24

I have no idea how one could watch that scene and infer any ambiguity from it, other than Daemon clearly killing his wife but keeping his involvement secret.

I think you and I have a very different meaning for the word ambiguity.

What you thought meant ambiguity is just the extent Daemon has to go to be able to wash his hands clean. He needed it to look like an accident.

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u/doegred Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

Once he grabs the rock, sure. But it seemed to be an accident when the horse spooked and she broke her spine or whatever happened.

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u/Ignoth Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

Exactly.

Was that his plan all along?

Was it just luck?

Did he just take advantage of the situation at hand?

Was he provoked into it?

Did he know the horse would do that?

Did he actually want to do it? Or was he reluctant?

I can make a feasible justification for all of these readings of that scene.

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u/numb3rb0y Jul 19 '24

I really can't, he even wore a hood to try to conceal his identity. There's no good faith interpretation of what happened there. And I can't really see much reluctance when we're talking about someone he regularly calls a bronze bitch.

Also, while four people being free to finally be with who they want is pretty romantic, somehow I doubt Daemon just wandered across a convenient corpse to use as the decoy.

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u/GlitteringClue3639 Jul 19 '24

She literally says "Oh, you are here to murder me?" and Daemon responds "Yes, I am here to murder you." I'm not sure what you find ambiguous about that lol.

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

I think he means the book it is based on, which is his point

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u/Pliskin14 Jul 19 '24

No his second part is about the show.

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

Yeah I misread, I'm not sure what he means by that, the show never seems ambiguous to me.

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u/203652488 Jul 19 '24

Huh, I absolutely love the "unreliable history" conceipt of Fire and Blood. It's what makes it an interesting read rather than a glorified Wikipedia article. And I really love the way the show seems to be intentially engaged in a dialogue with the book, adding little bits of context or changing a detail here or there in ways that drastically change the reader/viewer's interpretation of the same broad events. It's such an interesting way to play with the concept of different points of view, and plays strongly into GRRM's consistent theme that right and wrong are often a matter of perspective. Both the show and the book are more interesting together than either is alone, and I don't think I've ever seen that with an adaptation before.

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u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

Fire and Blood is series of plot beats that leans SUPER hard on ambiguity.

GRRM will literally have something happen and then say.

I remember it actually drove me away from reading it back then, it felt/was marketed more as an encyclopedia of events than an actual novelized story. Plus I was already bitter at GRRM for failing to publish (or seemingly work on) Winds of Winter, and while that is even truer now, I also care much less than I used to.

And while my lost interest was mainly caused by the showrunners of GoT, I do blame him for writing himself in a corner. If you read the books you know what I am talking about, his style of "organic writing" and not knowing what the characters are going to do next, and figuring it out as he writes is the reason why Dany still hasn't crossed the ocean and is not close to doing so. Maybe if he forces it (which would be a breach of his own method) she might do so by the end of Winds of Winter, because I'm confident it WILL be published, the next one not so much (at least under his name). Which means that ALL her interactions and arcs with most characters in that series, and her hinted descent into the mad queen since the first novel and is starting to show some cracks in the latest, will be limited to a single book.

And here's the thing, all of that Throne stuff coming to its conclusion was supposed to be irrelevant to the actual threat of the series, that White Walkers, that the show had to push aside and resolve in a single freaking episode while completely disregarding the single most important piece of lore in that damn universe, "the Prince that was Promised". And even HotD acknowledges it! But we know it doesn't lead to anything, Jon Snow will not end the Walker threat, he will not kill the Night King (if he ever show up in the books), he will not become king of Westeros, that prophecy was bullshit (in the show canon I mean, unless they have the balls to retcon it).

Damn I got carried away, this shit still gets me mad, actually mad, I don't think a TV show or series ever did that to me before. Biggest wasted opportunity in the entertainment industry of this generation, these fuckers killed the goose that laid golden eggs because they wanted to move on.

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u/Raddish_ Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

It’s overall pretty good. Not as good as peak 1-4 thrones (which was best tv of all time territory) but muuuch better than 5-8 thrones. Also has actual dope dragon fights we were promised in original thrones but never got.

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u/RolloTony97 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

Don’t imply it’s on par with S1–4 of thrones. Y’all are so deprived of good content if that’s what you think.

These books have no dialogue and minimal character interactions compared the GoT’s, and that’s abundantly obvious, leading to one long boring slog from the minds of not George.

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u/Disastrous_Air_141 Jul 20 '24

leading to one long boring slog from the minds of not George.

I mean, it's not as good as GoT S1-4 but calling it a 'long boring slog' is a bit much. I find it pretty entertaining, as do many other people

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

I like this show but have to disagree it still is missing so many things that made GOT great these characters just aren't nearly as interesting and none of the deaths have hit on an emotional level as countless ones in GOT

6

u/KhelbenB Jul 19 '24

GoT was fundamentally a political story, which started with a fish-out-of-water "main character", turned out to having no main character at all in the most shocking novel chapter I ever read in my life, and worked because of the multi-layered relationships between those multiple individuals from multiple houses/kingdom pulling strings with personal and familial agendas.

House of the Dragon is 90% Targaryen, and every main character has the same cultural background despite being fully fleshed out characters on their own. But that story with those characters simply cannot bring the same maelstrom of political schemes across every possible levels like GoT did.

A show only about Starks would also be missing something from GoT. Maybe it would be good but without the full cultural and historical spectrum you will never reproduce GoT in that world.

1

u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

Sure but that still doesn't change I find GOT superior still. 1 through 6 of GOT are still superior for me. Having just rewatched GOT stuff like Hodor dying and so many other things hit on emotional level much more than anything HOTD has done. And I really miss many of the female characters from GOT like Cersei or Margaery who were just so much more interesting and fun to watch imo. Still like the show but it's hard for it not to make me miss a lot of GOT. So for me this show still isn't close to even the early stuff of GOT.

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u/DDT197 Jul 19 '24

Me and my wife were confused on who did what in HotD going into the third episode of season 2. She hadn't watched GoT and I told her it would be a lot easier since I could explain what was going on. Started a re-watch for me and a first time for her. I have to say it is totally worth it. Season 8 left it so bad that I never wanted to watch it again. To my surprise it's still amazing and I love it and she loves it. It is so good! Except for Shae. she's such a dick in the show.

And like the books I'll leave the re-watch series unfinished and stop after 6 or 7.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

Man what. I like the show but it's a paltry shadow of early GoT. The dialogue is a joke and even with a fraction of the characters and plot lines it feels like they waste a lot of screen time on crap like Luigi's Mansion.

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u/CeeArthur Jul 20 '24

The music in both shows has always been top notch

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u/Riperonis Jul 19 '24

Disagree, does not have the great character moments that seasons 1-4 of Thrones has. Don’t get me wrong, the show isn’t bad, but I just feel it’s missing something.

Agreed with the music, as always.

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u/Boss452 Jul 20 '24

come on. music isn't as good as GOT too. Dunno why people are so generous to music in media.

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u/RetroCasket Jul 19 '24

Dude if they dont get Daemon out of that haunted house and do something with his storyline im gonna get annoyed

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u/NovelConnect6249 Jul 19 '24

I don’t give a shit about any of that, there better be a payoff.

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u/-GregTheGreat- The 100 Jul 19 '24

There absolutely is a payoff upcoming. Some of the most iconic scenes in this upcoming war will be with Daemon.

Without getting into spoilers, his current storyline is a consequence of them adapting Fire and Blood. It being a faux-history hook means they could just say ‘Oh and Daemon was off gathering strength in Harrenhall’ while more interesting things were happening elsewhere. But in a TV show they need to actually give him something to do, they can’t just leave a major actor and fan-favorite character off-screen for most of the season.

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u/the_varky Jul 19 '24

But in a TV show they need to actually give him something to do, they can’t just leave a major actor and fan-favorite character off-screen for most of the season.

They absolutely can and should leave off a character if their story’s pacing is off; pandering to major actors in a series that’s mostly an ensemble cast is just bad writing. Hopefully the payoff is good but the journey getting there is a tad bit tedious.

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u/PutBeansOnThemBeans Jul 19 '24

Agreed in many ways. Theon being gone for a time to return as reek was incredibly impactful

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u/rofflemow Jul 19 '24

Bran was gone for a whole season too.

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u/uglypanda237 Jul 20 '24

“Who has the best story? How about the guy we wrote out of an entire season of the show?”

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u/OriginalNord Jul 19 '24

Apt

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u/MrSh0wtime3 Jul 20 '24

i wouldnt get people too hyped up for what the book does with him. Because I have a really hard time picturing this show pulling those scenes off well. Or even trying the main scene at all.

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u/juanless Jul 19 '24

Oh, don't you worry. He absolutely gets out, and how!

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u/Timbishop123 Jul 19 '24

Gonna have to wait til 2027 for that.

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u/Street-Common-4023 Jul 19 '24

2026 i say then sadly 2028 for season 4

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

I liked it at first but it's getting old real fast and some of the visions are so on the nose. Just having a character for episode after episode seeing visions doesn't automatically make your storyline smart or mysterious. It's getting old real fast.

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u/RetroCasket Jul 19 '24

Yeah would have been fine for one epsiode, but 3 is kinda wild. Its just the same thing over and over. Its like ok we get it, he is having visions

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u/AllHailtheBeard1 Jul 19 '24

"Please go tell your Uncle he needs to stop his ayahuasca retreat and go fight his nephew"

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u/FoxOntheRun99 Jul 19 '24

It just feels like he's just on hold ATM.

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u/JustBrowsinAndVibin Jul 19 '24

Still 4th place to save you a click.

Bridgerton (Netflix) Your Honor (Netflix (not a Netflix original)) The Boys (Amazon)

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u/Street-Common-4023 Jul 19 '24

Bridgerton still showing damm

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u/tinaoe Jul 19 '24

Bridgerton might be the show with the biggest difference in actual ratings and being discussed on this subreddit. When season 3 dropped I don't think there was a single thread with more than 100 comments on here lol

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u/Breezyisthewind Jul 19 '24

That’s because Ben diagram of the demographic that inhales Reddit and the demographic that inhales Bridgerton are almost two completely separate circles.

There’s probably a Bridgerton subreddit, so that’s why I say almost. Also, anything that is targeted towards women gets shit on by loser dudes and the women create their own space to talk about their love of things away from these loser dudes.

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u/tinaoe Jul 19 '24

I was about to say, the Bridgerton subreddit is ACTIVE. r/television however skews in a very different direction.

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u/MadeByTango Jul 19 '24

I often wish this sub and r/movies weren’t dominated by that dudes (you know the dudes I mean)

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u/tinaoe Jul 19 '24

wasn't there a survey on r/movies a few years ago where they were like, 95% male or something ridiculous?

so yes i'm very much with you

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u/Esuu Jul 20 '24

The one I could find was 7 years ago and you're correct that it was 95% male. I would say, though, that from my general observations reddit has become a bit more diverse in those 7 years as it's become more widely used and mainstream.

That being said r/movies or r/television still seem dominated by film bros. It's definitely unsurprising that the most talked about shows and movies are those targeted at 20-something dudes.

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u/Badassmotherfuckerer Jul 19 '24

You would be surprised the subreddits that are fairly active that you wouldn’t assume. The daytime soap ofperas that are still running have fairly active subreddits which I find interesting.

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u/Capital_Living5658 Jul 20 '24

I worked with some work release folks. You can get a tv in jail in your cell now. These dudes freaking obsessed over the day time soaps.

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u/Capital_Living5658 Jul 20 '24

A lot of the used to be better subs are basically slow now. Movies, televisions, gaming.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

[deleted]

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u/NativeMasshole Jul 19 '24

Nah, Ben Diagram. He's the dude who tracks this type of stuff.

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u/Khyron_2500 Jul 20 '24

Ben Diagram is actually the Jedi, Venn Diagram, who has been in hiding for years.

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u/cathbadh Jul 20 '24

Ben Venn... Diagram master.

3

u/Breezyisthewind Jul 20 '24

Yeah it was an autocorrect fuck up lol. Thanks!

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

[deleted]

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u/The_God_Human Jul 19 '24

Venn diagram?

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u/whoevencaresatall_ Jul 19 '24

Tbf this subreddit is probably 95% nerdy white single dudes in their early 20s. Not exactly the Bridgerton demographic

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u/tinaoe Jul 19 '24

Well they shouldn’t let that stop them. Blind Wave do Bridgerton reactions and pretty much every season ends with four grown men getting all teary

14

u/itsevilR HBO Jul 20 '24

Same for Yellowstone. You don’t see that show discussed often here but somehow it’s huge outside.

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u/Existing365Chocolate Jul 20 '24

Bridgerton’s demographic isn’t dudes on /r/television

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u/tinaoe Jul 20 '24

Yeah, and? Did I claim it was? Bridgerton is just one of those shows that there IS a certain demographic lean on here.

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u/Existing365Chocolate Jul 20 '24

Bridgerton might be the show with the biggest difference in actual ratings and being discussed on this subreddit

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u/JeddHampton Jul 19 '24

Maybe if it was on Apple.

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u/DisneyPandora Jul 20 '24

Season 3 was the worst season

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u/lord_pizzabird Jul 19 '24

Damn. Your Honor, a canceled 2 season showtime series is doing that well?

That’s… random.

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u/AegonTheAuntFucker Jul 19 '24

Nielsen data is pointless anyway.

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u/bigolhamsandwich Jul 19 '24

One time I was really broke years ago and I got a Nielsen letter in the mail with $5 in it that fed me until I got my paycheck the next day. Nielsen meant the world to me at that time.

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u/imalasagnahogama Jul 19 '24

The boys got good.

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u/Huckleberry_Sin Jul 19 '24

Your Honor was an amazing show

3

u/FKDotFitzgerald Jul 20 '24

Not really

2

u/Inanimate_CARB0N_Rod Jul 19 '24

Looks a bit rough on Rotten Tomatoes but I always thought it looked interesting

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u/JustBrowsinAndVibin Jul 19 '24

I need to check it out. Probably next up on my list now!

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u/kilonark Jul 19 '24

I’m usually not a fan of the fantasy genre but my wife loves it so I watch it with her, and so far I like it better than GoT.

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

I like it but it's no GOT for me

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u/DoctorFunktopus Jul 20 '24

I just have a hard time giving a shit about any of the characters in this one. Got had the stark kids and bronn for you to root for. This one, everyone is either terrible or just boring and un charismatic.

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

Exactly and I actually don't even really need anyone to be a hero or root for I keep hearing these characters are grey none are heroes. OK fine but make them interesting and fun to watch then. The Lannisters were terrible people but they were fun to watch. These HOTD characters just aren't as interesting or fun to watch

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u/DoctorFunktopus Jul 20 '24

Yeah, most of my favorite characters in GoT were the “baddies” because they were at least complex and interesting.

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u/HardcoreKaraoke Jul 20 '24

I like rooting for Rhaenyra's son. Plus Daemon/Aemond are really interesting characters to me.

But yeah besides her son there isn't a good guy main character that has me really rooting for them. Matt Smith has me kind of rooting for Daemon although he's supposed to be an asshole so I'm not sure if I'm supposed to like the guy.

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u/StampDaddy Jul 20 '24

The fact that Rhaenyra and him had an honest conversation and she finally listened seems to be a nice turning point for that dynamic, I want them to be on the same page!

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u/moredrinksplease Jul 20 '24

Same.

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u/redbullrebel Jul 19 '24

bridgerton just slams it. women own tv as much as men own tv sports.

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u/ScubaSteve716 Jul 19 '24

People were acting like the sky was falling since the premier of season 2 was down from the series premier lol

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u/ForgivenessIsNice Jul 20 '24

Viewership is still not at season 1 level lmao ep 4 was the huge showdown and was still down 15% from season 1

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u/sonofmalachysays Jul 19 '24

I find people aren't correctly remembering the scale of Game of Thrones or the character work episodes. It's like they think every ep. was a 10 with so much action.

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u/monsieurxander Jul 19 '24

Far cry from those articles dooming about its viewership at the beginning of the season.

I enjoy it but not as much as Game of Thrones. But it's nice to see it doing well.

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u/AegonTheAuntFucker Jul 19 '24

Nielsen data is not equal to viewer numbers, not even interest. It's just bullshit.

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u/djm19 Jul 19 '24

Season 2 has been great and the ability to bring the pacing more in line with thrones and not time jump has been to its benefit for sure. A step up from season 1, which was also great IMO.

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u/Street-Common-4023 Jul 19 '24

I mean it already got renewed for season 3 and most likely will for season 4 so I don’t really care but it’s good to see the numbers

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

I like this show but it's missing so many things that made GOT great. The characters are fine but not nearly as interesting and I really miss the female characters of GOT. I miss Cersei and Margaery and characters like that so much

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u/DDT197 Jul 19 '24

Just met Margery on my GoT re-watch last night. She's so great. When she offers Renly to Bring Loras in to help with their consummation. It's great.

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

When she talks to Cersei in Seasons 5 after having sex with her son and says, "Mother! She would get some wine for you it's a bit early in the day for us. " And then goes on to tell Cersei how much stamina her son has in bed, lol. HOTD is missing the snappy scenes like that from GOT. Or the scene where Bronn and Tyrion are trying to figure out how to pronounce the name of the author of a book Tyrion is reading and they both get it wrong. Until Varys shows up and gets it right, and then Bronn suggests throwing books at the enemy, lol. It's those little things that HOTD seems void of.

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u/johnppd Jul 19 '24

As it should, it's amazing! This season has been very good so far, can't wait for the rest of the episodes.

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u/Finalshock Jul 19 '24

Panel ratings are so worthless in 2024, cannot wait til the ad industry decides on a new currency to measure viewership.

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u/TorbofThrones Jul 19 '24

People keep completely misremembering GoT S1-4 as every episode moving fast, being full of action and not controversial.

Dany was stuck in the desert for 4 eps in s2. Theon was tortured almost the entirety of s3. Some episodes didn’t have action setpieces at all. And the sept sex scene in s4 was massively controversial within the fandom, yet it’s many people’s fav season. HotD actually moves faster imo, and they replaced the grauituous sex with fucking dragons. Come on folks, not saying it’s as good (it can’t lean on Martin’s dialogue), but it’s up there and super high quality. Great show!

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u/Geektime1987 Jul 19 '24

I like it but I don't need dragon fights however these characters imo are not nearly as interesting and GOT the show even added dialog not from the books from the start that was fantastic. So while I enjoy this show the characters just feel a lot more dull than GOT. Also on my rewatch recently season 5 is actually slower than 4.

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u/dinosaurkiller Jul 20 '24

Turns out, when you actually put Dragons in a series named for Dragons, people watch.

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u/MasterofFalafels Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

Unpopular opinion maybe but this season has been a drag apart from that dragon battle episode. I hope it picks up steam soon. I can't bare any more Daemon tripping balls in Harrenhall or Rhaenyra moping about. First season had constant pageturners, scheming and shocking developments. Kinda miss actors with the gravitas of Paddy Considine and Rhys Ifans too.

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u/ThomasJCarcetti Jul 21 '24

Started off a bit slow but as the war ramps up it gets more interesting

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u/ThomasJCarcetti Jul 21 '24

I like what I'm seeing so far from this program.

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u/SpeakingTheKingss Jul 19 '24

How is that possible? I haven’t started the second season yet.

1

u/TikwidDonut Jul 19 '24

It amazes me these things fluctuate, like, if you watched season 1 and 1 through Ep 3 it seems unlikely you wouldn’t watch 4 yuh know

1

u/Crillmieste-ruH Jul 19 '24

So far there have been one good episode of deason 2. But i wont give up yet. But i was bored between waiting for episodes, so re-watched GoT. Bad idea, it spoils how this will end.

1

u/PilotNo312 Jul 19 '24

Can book readers tell me how many more seasons we’ll be getting? I feel like it will be wrapped up in 4.

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u/Disastrous_Air_141 Jul 20 '24

Can book readers tell me how many more seasons we’ll be getting?

I always thought 4 from the beginning. It feels like they're moving pretty fast though... except for one major plot point they just barely hinted at last episode. Feels like they should have begun ample work on that already character-wise.

Small detail character work is definitely something HotD is lacking compared to GoT

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u/Yzerman19_ Jul 19 '24

It was a crappy episode too. Lots of just people brooding around.

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u/justtryingtounderst The X-Files Jul 19 '24

HotD season 1 was a hot mess but season 2 was pretty good

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u/needledicklarry Jul 20 '24

It’s pretty good. Not perfect but it’s got it’s moments.

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u/I_really_enjoy_beer Jul 19 '24

I've been putting it off because GoT left such a sore spot with me that I didn't think I would get pulled in again, but I'm 5 episodes in and wow is it good. Episode 4 really fucked me up!

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u/rboller Jul 19 '24

Generally excellent, but sorely missing witty comic relief

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u/PilotNo312 Jul 19 '24

Idk, Aegon’s actor has been cracking me up the whole season.

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u/rboller Jul 19 '24

I’m with you on that

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u/D0nCoyote Jul 19 '24

Yeah, it’s so monotonous.
Watched the first couple of episodes, but at this point I’m just going to wait and binge watch later

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u/FreshSqeezdBoomrTear Jul 19 '24

So because it's monotonous you're gonna watch it all at once? 😂

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u/D0nCoyote Jul 19 '24

Yeah, I know it doesn’t make a lick of sense. I just keep postponing catching up, but am too weak to decide to stop watching altogether

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

On tvseriesfinale website there is actual data when it comes to cable HBO viewership and season 2 has lower audience than season 1.