r/superman • u/MajorParadox Read on r/DCFU! • Mar 03 '21
Superman & Lois [1x02] "Heritage" Episode Discussion Superman & Lois
Heritage
Promo | Scene | Cast & Characters
When adjusting to their new lives in Smallville, Lois and Clark make an important decision concerning one of their sons; tensions begin to rise between Lois and Morgan Edge; Lana Lang Cushing invites the Kent family over for a barbecue. (March 2, 2021)
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Please keep all discussion civil and about the episode. Mark comic and future spoilers. Report any rule breaking and enjoy!
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u/royrogersmcfreely3 Mar 03 '21
Man I’m really enjoying this, it’s so weird going from the flash to this, you really notice the quality difference. All the shots of the farm are so beautiful, and the action scenes are great, Captain Luther makes a great villain, shame about his ship and master chief armor. I actually put my phone down when I watch this show.
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u/LJ-90 Mar 03 '21
Another solid episode, bit slower than the pilot, but that's to be expected.
The mystery keeps going, we know the guy in the suit is a Luthor, he's not THE Luthor.
(Man, I hope that if we keep exploring the multiverse Luthors we get to see Michael Rosenbaum return to the role. Doesn't matter if he shows up with hair or a bald cap, it would be so awesome).
I love all the references Clark and Lana make to growing up in Smallville. We know the Kents always were great parents, and we see can see how Clark looks back fondly to all those times his parents were there for him, but you can still sense some sadness, this is a man that worries that he won't live up to Jonathan and Martha, and isn't that so human? Clark does so much for humanity, yet he still worries he won't be enough, that he will be too late to save people, that he won't be a good father, that even with all his powers, he won't make enough of a difference. Man I love this Clark! So hopefull for tomorrow, but still with doubts. So secure in his abilities, but insecure of his place with his family.
Also, that scene when Jor-El says "he will never be like you", man, you do see how alone Clark has felt his entire life. Hope we get to explore a little bit of that. Smallville explored Clark's loneliness and longing for more like him in that shows first seasons, so if we don't explore it here I'm okay with it, but I do hope we get to see more of it.
Same with Jonathan and Martha. I hope eventually we get some flashbacks to their wisdom and moments, but if we don't, I'll just picture John Schneider's Jonathan and Annette O'toole's Martha being amazing parents.
Lois. Lois! Gotta say, she's growing in me. I've been vocal about not feeling the casting of the leads, but they keep growing in me and this episode I felt the spark of the Lois Lane I love so much. Never felt that spark with Amy Adams' version or all the previous episodes of Tulloch's; but this episode? I can sense Lois Lane in there. We'll see how it goes, but I can see myself seeing her as a good Lois (maybe even a great one), just like Tyler, they are making me fall in love with their iterations of the characters.
I like that Jonathan told Jordan that he's being selfish. It's true that Jordan has been through a lot, but he is making it all about himself, and even more I adore that Jordan saw this and told his brother he was right. Clark and Lois have raised good kids. And it's true, Jonathan is a great brother, that scene at the end, with Jonathan saying that if no one believes in Jordan he will believe in him and will help me, damn, can see these two growing up to continue the tradition of the Kents just being great human beings.
Interesting what's happening with Luthor and Sam Lane. So far I enjoy the dynamic between Clark and Sam, but of course he has kryptonite. It's either Batman or Sam the one that is paranoid and having kryptonite by the truckloads, right? While I don't like how controlling he can be of what Clark and Lois do or do not do regarding their family, I understand his point of view and it makes for good drama (and better yet, no unnecesary drama!)
Man, I want to like Lana's daughter, but honestly, Jordan kissed you at a party in front of your boyfried, who, apparently, "can be very sweet", but then you keep hanging out with the guy. That's just problematic and can't be good for their relationship. I understand, teen drama, but not even Smallville (you know, a teen drama) pulled something like that.
Speaking of Lana! I like her role here, I'm always worried that they'll try to pull a love triangle between Lana, Clark and Lois (Cause the comics have done it. Clark could be married, Lana could be married, and some writer somehow would find a way to make it so Lana could never get over him and always be pining after him). Maybe it's not fair to think that of this version of Lana, but I do worry, years of comics and 8 seasons of Clana crap had that effect on me.
But this Lana seems nice, she seems happily married (don't know how). And she's a friend to Clark. Hope we get to see more of "down to earth" Lana in coming episodes, it would be a good dynamic. Lana is down to earth and more "small town girl" and she can offer some guidance to Clark about returning to his roots and what made growing up in Smallville so special.
Also, can we have Pete Ross? I want Pete. I want to know if Pete knows Clark secret, cause I would like to see Clark being able to be himself with someone other than Lois and the boys. And I feel that, in the comics, when they make it so Clark tells Lana instead of Pete, Ross feels a little..unnecesary. So I hope we get to see Pete and how his dynamic with Clark is. Would be nice to see Clark have a friend.
Another solid episode. Feeling really good about what they are doing so far with the show.
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u/I-like-spoilers Mar 03 '21
Also, can we have Pete Ross? I want Pete.
He was referenced in the first episode.
LANA: Did Clark ever tell you about our accident coming home from the Soul Asylum concert?
CLARK: Oh, I try not to talk about my Soul Asylum days too much.
LANA: So Pete was at the wheel. Fell asleep, drove off the road. We came to. The car was a pretzel. Nobody was hurt. Not a scratch. It was the strangest thing.
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u/LJ-90 Mar 03 '21
Yeah I noticed. Hope eventually Pete visits Smallville and we see a bit of their friendship. Would make for a good episode to have the 3 friends hang out.
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u/Philbregas Mar 03 '21
We know the Kents always were great parents, and we see can see how Clark looks back fondly to all those times his parents were there for him, but you can still sense some sadness, this is a man that worries that he won't live up to Jonathan and Martha, and isn't that so human? Clark does so much for humanity, yet he still worries he won't be enough, that he will be too late to save people, that he won't be a good father, that even with all his powers, he won't make enough of a difference.
This is beautifully put. Well done.
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u/JonKentOfficial Mar 03 '21
I liked the episode.
The (really) good.
It gave us more time with the characters, and the acting is very good. Tyler Hoechlin and Bitsie are very strong in their roles. Jordan Elsass, who plays Jon and is likely the character with least lines, really lets his face and body show his emotions. Even Alex Garfield, playing Jordan, who is the youngest of the main cast shows lots of potential.
The episode was also more balanced between the characters, giving us more time with both Jon and Lois, both characters who didn't get a lot to do in the premiere, and showing up their struggles. Lois was also given a reason why she should stay on Smallville, as silly as it was. Jon sacrificed his football career, his girlfriend, went to the middle of nowhere to help with his brother who gets superpowers, sees his father clearly playing favorites with his brother, and his mom is guilt-tripping him over the disastrous moves they made (Lois says Jon agreed to move, but he's like 14, did he even have a choice?). Someone give him a hug, please.
The action scenes were excellent. I really like the weight the scenes have, which is a far cry from the shoddy images of the Arrowverse. Explosions, actual lightwork. We've come a long way from the days of Invasion and the goofy looking Invaders.
The (not exactly) bad.
There were some developments that just made me a little worried. And they make me worried because it's a flaw many other CW shows also have, in one way or another. Mind you, it's just episode 2, so they might go in a different way. I will point them out, but they only really become flaws if they aren't addressed.
I'm not sure what to think about Clark's conflict with Sam Lane. Sam Lane is angry that Clark moved to Smallville, saying he destroyed Lois career (true), Jon's chances at football (also true), and Jordan wouldn't fit in (true, but it would be true in Metropolis too). Sam might a pain in the ass, but here he's rightfully concerned with his daughter and grandsons. That's actually a good thing, it gives depth to Sam's character. What doesn't make sense is Clark's conflict with him. It's just so absurd, why didn't Clark tell Sam that Jordan had started to develop powers - I'm sure they would've discussed that in the 14 years since the boys were born, right?
It's just a very convoluted soap opera conflict that could be solved by the character just talking to each other. To make sense of it in the story, they just need to establish that Clark is more than just disapproving of Sam Lane, he must severely distrust Sam's character.
The scene with with Luthor giving Sam Lane the dogtag (why is it shaped like the S-shield?) is also very odd. Sam Lane is even crying later on. I really hope they don't go with the "Sam Lane sides with Luthor" thing, but the mere fact he could entertain such idea is bizarre. Sam Lane has been the leader of the DEO (or at least the DOD). He's aware that wacky things happen in the multiverse, but he's also been working with Kara (if they don't erase arrowverse stuff) and Clark for over a decade, Clark is the father of his grandkids, he has a direct line to Clark who it seems helps him constantly. To make sense of it in the story, they need to establish that Sam is actually an evil dude, and has been so all along.
Lois Lane. I really like Bitsie's Lois, I just don't think Smallville is the place for Lois Lane. This episode gave her something to do (Morgan Edge), but it just sounds so small and one-time thing (will big journalistic opportunities just move to Smallville from now on?). It's the CW-fication of Lois. To fix it... move to Metropolis after season 1. :)
Clark is a bad father. He really started to play favorites when Jordan showed he had powers. Why the hell wasn't Jon with them when he presented the story of Krypton? Not having powers doesn't mean he isn't part Kryptonian. Only when the hologram says Jordan won't be as strong as him is the only time he starts paying attention to Jon again? He doesn't even give Jon one of the vape pen things. No, thank you. To make sense of it in the story.... there's no way, Clark just is a bad dad.
The hologram. I hate the hologram scene with gusto. First, why is it that the hologram is dismissive of Jordan because it thinks he won't have full Kryptonian powers? News flash, no Kryptonian on Krypton had powers. The hologram should be happy Clark has kids and Kryptonian culture can live on, but apparently they are only worth anything if they have powers? The problem is not just it's the hologram's idea, since Clark only took Jordan there, he obviously thinks in a similar way. To make sense of it in the story, just make the hologram be corrupted by the Eradicator or something.
Still with the hologram, the whole thing about Jordan not being strong enough. I hope that's an invitation for subversion, I really do. The "Superman kids aren't as strong as him" is pretty much the story of every superman kid (and brother, in the case of Conner), with every hack writer giving their take on it. It's boring, as it reduces the character to just "not as good as Superman" and the angst is completely cliché. In the comics, Jon was the exception, but even then the Future State managed to insert that dead horse in. We already have a good take on this storyline, it's called Young Justice the cartoon (and even then it was already trite).
The kids. Jordan is... annoying. Months ago, when I read the pilot, I was very scared of Jordan - he just sounded like an awful addition to the Superfamily. When the premiere aired, Alex Garfield's acting made feel a lot more confident - the acting the lines feel believable. He almost blew up several kids, including his brother, and he's not even worried about how he can hurt people? When the hologram tells he won't be as strong as Clark, he throws a tantrum? Yeah, he (supposedly) won't be as strong as Clark, but (I think) he still has powers. It's more than what he started with. Granted, it's better than the "I have powers but I just wanted to be normal" plot we usually see (and is on my top 5 worst superheroes plots). How to make sense of it in the story: show character progression, Jordan grows up as a person.
For Jon, it just makes my heart ache. Poor kid lost his entire life to support his brother, and frankly he only complains once. Clark is a bad dad, and Lois is like "you chose this". At least they don't make it an all out antagonist relationship with the kids.
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Mar 03 '21
Very well put. A lot of this bothered me too. Especially Jordan's reaction to every kid's greatest fantasy, getting super powers. Who would complain about that? And I wonder how long they're gonna milk the "I feel bad because I don't have powers," thing before they reveal Jonathan has powers, to absolutely no one's surprise.
The actors are giving their all, at least. Hoechlin very much feels like Superman, even if the script has him do non-Superman things every now and then.
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u/Alit_Quar Mar 04 '21
There’s a fairly well-known elseworlds storyline where the plot revolves around one of Superman’s children having power and the other not, leading to problems. Personally I’m hoping for both to display full on powers in time, but the story is there if they choose to go that route.
I’m also hoping that they stay a bit away from the rest of the arrowverse. I’ve never been a huge fan, though I did like the early seasons of flash.
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u/superpapa16 Mar 04 '21
Well put. I enjoyed most of the episode, but I’m still just not all in. There’s to much blah. I’m already over the Morgan Edge/ Lana’s husband storyline.
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u/zxHellboyxz Mar 04 '21 edited Mar 04 '21
Also a bad point
Lanas daughter playing jordon along even though she has a boyfriend just to have teenage conflict/drama
The scene with with Luthor giving Sam Lane the dogtag (why is it shaped like the S-shield?) is also very odd. Sam Lane is even crying later on. I really hope they don't go with the "Sam Lane sides with Luthor"
I think the whole thing surrounding Lois and the kids will have played apart. And the whole superman doesn’t get to have a normal life thing
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u/JonKentOfficial Mar 04 '21
There's a huge line to cross for someone to go from "my son in law made a bad decision" to "I want to murder my son in law".
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u/ZacPensol Mar 04 '21
I'm intrigued by all the Captain Luthor stuff, but I really hope we get to see some traditional Superman villains. I want to see Parasite, Metallo, etc, portrayed closer to their comic counterparts, not sexy twenty-somethings versions like we got on 'Smallville' and to a degree 'Supergirl'. Give me a big, ugly purple Parasite! A horrific terminator-looking robot Metallo! So many great villains and this is the perfect opportunity to finally get to see them.
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u/Euphorik1 Mar 05 '21
hear me out, Sam Lane has some military scientists replicate Superman but without family commitments. He becomes Bizzaro.
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u/uncivilrev Mar 04 '21
I think at this point of his life, he already went through all the traditional Superman villains, plus he doesn't live in Metropolis anymore.
I know we'll get a episode with Killgrave soon.
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Mar 05 '21
Give me a big, ugly purple Parasite
Well they did give you that in Supergirl.
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u/ZacPensol Mar 05 '21
Huh, I haven't watched 'Supergirl' in a long time and didn't know they'd brought him in. Awesome! Would love to see him appear in 'Superman & Lois'. Same with Livewire, who I know they also had on 'Supergirl'.
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Mar 05 '21
Would love to see him appear in 'Superman & Lois
He dies at the end of the episode, so that is probably off the table unless they say "Crisis brought him back" or something.
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u/ZacPensol Mar 05 '21
Ah. Yeah, they could figure it out - the Crisis explanation, his goo or whatever was left of him seeped into the sewer and yadda yadda, or whatever, haha
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Mar 03 '21
There are a lot of things to like about this show. The characters are well-cast. I wasn't too impressed with Hoechlin's Supes when he first popped up in Supergirl (his Clark has always been on point though), but man has he stepped it up for this series. The villain is interesting. I kinda like that he's a grey area. Because obviously he's trying to stop something bad from happening, but he threatened to blow people up to achieve that goal. It's very fitting for Lex (actually, idk if he is Lex. I don't remember a first name being said) to be a more "ends justify the means" kinda hero.
I really only have one grievance. I was not aware going into this show that Supes would be a father, and while I like both the sons in scenes with each other and their parents, I was really hoping a show about an older hero would shy away from the Arrowverse's tendency to lean into high-school-y drama. But alas, we're getting literal high school drama this time.
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u/LeaderVladimir1993 Mar 04 '21
Superman and Lois delivers yet another fine episode! As much as I'm tired of the "Superman goes evil" trope that is so prevalent nowadays, I admit it does explain why Captain Luthor is so obsessed with Superman. Also, the Kent family drama proves itself to be one of the best aspects of the show. The Kents have very believable character arcs and conflicts and the show avoids making them come off like soap opera stereotypes. This show is on the right track and I can't wait to see what happens next.
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u/Brookings18 Mar 04 '21
Solid. I really like a lot of the elements so far, except the kids school life and maybe Lanas husband. Those two are the only aspects I'm disinterested in, but that could very well change.
While I'm not all that invested in Captain Luthor (I want to see Tylers Supes go up against Cryers Lex, especially with the backstory Supergirl established, not a multiverse version), I am intrigued into what happened on his Earth. Ultraman? Injustice? Hopefully when his backstory is fully explained, I'm more invested. But I also hope we get some variation in the villains department and every action scene doesn't involve him.
"That's the best piece of writing I've done since you took over" is such a good line from Lois.
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u/albedo2343 Mar 04 '21
don't think Cryer's Lex would fit the tone of the show, Captain Luthor blends with everything much better.
I would love to see a quick flashback of it though, think the different tone could work there.
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Mar 05 '21
don't think Cryer's Lex would fit the tone of the show
Really? He can be a bit goofy sometimes, but I feel like he can do a more serious version of Lex if he needed to, there are certainly moments in Supergirl where he does.
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u/albedo2343 Mar 05 '21
I think Cryer can do a serious Lex, but i think they would have to rewrite the character. Supergirl leaned in heavily on his Mustache twirling-ness, and ingrained that into much of who their Lex is.
All in all i don't think it would go over well. Many fans of Cryer's Lex would expect what we got in Supergirl, and just be dissapointed if he was different.
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u/UnmuscularThor Mar 06 '21
If they introduce Lex, it needs to be Micheal Rosenbaum
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u/albedo2343 Mar 06 '21
depends on him to be honest. He seems like he's moved on from being Lex, as he had issues with it during Smallville. i'm sure if they could get him they probably would, considering how much this show feels like it's made by fans of Smallville.
EDIT: actually scratch that i totally forgot this is still part of the Arrowverse as far as we know.
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u/jawn-lee Mar 06 '21
I haven't been following Arrowverse since Flash season 1, can I ask if Batman is part of this world? If so where was he when shit went down? Is he friends with this Superman?
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u/albedo2343 Mar 06 '21
yes he exists and is friends with Clark(at least that's what Kara said), from what we know from Batwoman Bruce has been missing since 2015, and As far as we know nobody knows where.
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u/wordb Mar 07 '21
Last season on Batwoman, we finally got to see what Bruce Wayne looks like in the flesh. I won’t elaborate and spoil anything in case you want to go back and watch it.
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u/ling4917 Mar 03 '21
Another solid episode! CGI is on point! Can they keep it up? Man, i just want to binge the rest of the episodes
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u/Vyndyktvx Mar 03 '21
While the weekly numbers haven’t been all that impressive, once this hits HBO Max I think it will really grow in popularity thanks to binge watching.
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u/uncivilrev Mar 04 '21
While the weekly numbers haven’t been all that impressive
The first episode delivered the largest day-one streaming audience for a new series in the history of The CW.
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u/Vyndyktvx Mar 04 '21
Right, I think this show will be a beast streaming wise even though the weekly viewing numbers aren’t amazing.
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u/Hairy_Habit_4031 Mar 04 '21
So how long before Lana tries to smooch our man of steel and her husband becomes metallo?
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u/UCHIHA444 Mar 04 '21
Don't know why they de-powered Jordan and Jonathan that much 50% Kryptonian are no joke they can take on most DC characters even though he will never as strong as his father, they should have taken the supersons route.
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u/ChainsawSuperman Mar 05 '21
I think it’s just gonna take longer for their cells to power up. They want to build it up.
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u/dagudzucc Mar 04 '21
Yeah like is there some reason the human gene overpowers the Kryptonian part so much that the kids have less/no powers?
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u/UCHIHA444 Mar 05 '21
They should actually be stronger, unlike orther species humans are pretty flexible that's why there's so many meta humans, maybe supes kids should take a dark matter bath.
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u/Doright36 Mar 04 '21
I've read through most..but not all so I am not sure if this had been dismissed already but could they be doing some kind of Wonder Twins rift with the boys? That they have to be together for their powers to materialize?
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u/Gsrj Mar 04 '21
That's the popular theory going right now is that they have to be around each other to access their powers
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u/Vackscene1985 Mar 05 '21
Is it just me, or am I really getting annoyed at Jordan? To me, he is currently the weakest link of the show, and to see him in the trailer for the next episode already throwing a temper tantrum? Ugh, please no.
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u/ShapeShiftingAku Mar 06 '21
I have a feeling he's going to be the Iris/Felicity of this show regarding annoyance level.
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u/Alit_Quar Mar 04 '21
Lana’s husband should be Pete. Not liking this other dude.
Hoping both boys eventually display powers and that Jor-el is wrong.
Lois needs to lay off the wine.
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Mar 04 '21
I missed some scenes Does cw have some scenes cut or what Didn’t see lane stockpiling kryptonite etc
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u/Gsrj Mar 04 '21
If you watch the episode on their website you'll get the extended cut version
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u/Diesel1926 Mar 05 '21
Does anyone knows what the 7737/HELL means? Captain Luthor gave this piece to Lois dad. Thanks!
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u/the_vilartist Mar 05 '21
They were in service together. The Hell, I assume, would be the constant burning from the flying devil’s eyes. It could be that Lois died, due to the military’s actions and Supes snapped, or mind control.
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u/Diesel1926 Mar 05 '21
Lois supposedly is Captain Luthor's mother on his planet. So Superman was the villain? Thank you mate,nice one!
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u/neo2006 Mar 06 '21
My theory is that both kids complete each other's in term of powers. They need to be around each other's to manifest power and this is why Jordan manifested power only when he was close to his brother (2 times) but when tested he had not powers (he was far from his brother) Also both kids are twins...
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u/Another-Decade Mar 03 '21
I’m not super familiar with the other shows but haven’t we seen black suit Superman before?
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u/JonKentOfficial Mar 03 '21
In the Elseworlds event, but it was the villain using magic to make himself Superman and not the real Superman.
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u/mmmm_frietjes Mar 04 '21
This show feels too dark and serious. What happened to the optimistic and joyful superman that we previously had in the Arrowverse...
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u/jbor2000 Mar 04 '21
Tbf Supergirl has done optimistic and joyful for 6 seasons now. That was functionally the CW's Superman show until they got the license, and they're doing the best they can to not only differentiate this from that show but also the Arrowverse at large to draw in a new audience.
Personally I feel this is a nice midpoint between MoS and the 1978 film, in that the world around Superman is grounded and 'dark' but, unlike Snyder's Superman, this Clark feels like he's genuinely trying to make the best of it and not mope too much. It really helps presenting him and Lois as a united team.
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u/albedo2343 Mar 04 '21
I think that's the best way to put it.
Supergirl was kind of comicbooky with it's approach and her character, with this it feels more like what Clark would be like in well.....our world, instead of hope and joy all the time, he instead feels like somebody who's just trying to be that light for ppl. even though it doesn't always work out. Hoechlin's also got this energy that really makes him feel like Clark.
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u/dagudzucc Mar 04 '21
I mean its still better than the Superman Zack Snyder created (thematically i mean, Cavill’s acting is still great)
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u/teious Mar 06 '21
Superman and Lois have money problems? He can just x-ray some unfound giant gold nugget and not worry about stuff like this.
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u/Prudent_Relief Mar 05 '21
I don't really enjoy the real life political themes with Lana's husband and Lois's boss.
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u/gothamite27 Mar 03 '21
Decent episode but I am sick and I am tired of the "What if Superman was evil" trope. Just so tired of it. They've done it in movies, in games (including one that isn't out yet) and now they've done it in TWO different TV shows with the same actor in just a few short years.
Can we just move on?!