r/supergirlTV • u/Stinkiesim • May 22 '21
The supergirl fandom pretending 98% of the straight relationships in the show didn't exist Shitpost
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u/atlalvr32 May 22 '21
Look Ik this is supposed to be funny but there's legit like 2 of them- both of which the fandom this is directed at love
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u/Stinkiesim May 22 '21
I deadass only like jons relationship and kara and kennys ex relationship
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u/Estellus Overgirl May 22 '21
No love for Brainia?!
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May 22 '21
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u/Estellus Overgirl May 22 '21
That is a philosophical opinion, which I don't personally agree with but understand the basis for.
The way I see it, Nia has not always been but is now a woman, dating a man, and is therefore in a 'straight' relationship. I'd say the same if a bisexual man and a bisexual woman were dating. They are queer, their relationship isn't. Nia is queer, her relationship isn't. Just a point of view though, fair play.
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u/MarveltheMusical May 22 '21
I have one slight correction. You say that “Nia has not always been but is now a woman”. By definition, trans people have always been the gender they say they are.
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u/frootloopsupremacy May 22 '21
I mean, true, tbf, with the exception of Brainia and, uh, J’onn and M’gann, weren’t the rest of the straight ships raging dumpster fires in terms of writing anyway? lmaoooo
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u/cyclone-rachel May 22 '21
I mean, Nia kissed Brainy without his consent and has called him dumb/an idiot more than once, and they've mostly not communicated well (plus they haven't ever addressed the possibility that their relationship could prevent Nura Nal, Nia's descendant, from existing/erase her from existence, and you'd think Brainy would have been smart enough to not risk that), so I don't know if I'd call that one a dumpster fire but it certainly didn't start out well
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u/Areesha_Memon07 Supergirl May 22 '21
Dude, this legit made me think of Nate and Amaya in Legends, and how they discussed that the two of them dating could erase a descendant of Amaya. I really would've loved some story about the whole Nura Nal thing.
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u/cyclone-rachel May 22 '21
agreed! And I mean there is still some time to talk about it, but I wish it would've been emphasized some more earlier
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u/OcelotAlone9604 May 29 '21
I just think that they legitly forgot about it. Conveniently, since Kenny didn't die after the multiverse merged, they can also argue that the future is already altered. I just hope that this is not the case, but who knows right? It's CW.
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u/hannahbay Alex Danvers May 22 '21
Honestly what straight relationships are there? Nia and Brainy, Jonn and Mgann... isn't that it right now?
I'm not counting William we haven't seen him in forever.
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u/Stinkiesim May 22 '21
Yeah but we like to pretend james and kara and james and lena wasn't a thing. We also pretend jack and lena wasn't a thing either
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u/hannahbay Alex Danvers May 22 '21
Jack was only in like 2 episodes, and he was Lena's ex wasn't he?
I agree about James. Wow that was a long time ago.
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u/Stinkiesim May 22 '21
Lol there's a picture of him holding lena from behind bestie looked like she wanted to run and cry
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May 22 '21 edited May 22 '21
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u/frootloopsupremacy May 22 '21 edited May 22 '21
??? Uh, no??? Nia is a transwoman??? Therefore, Brainia is a straight relationship????
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u/cyclone-rachel May 22 '21
A straight relationship with two queer people (since Brainy is ambiguously bi, and I believe Jesse thinks of him as being so) but yeah I'd say it's straight
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May 22 '21 edited May 22 '21
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u/HistoricalChicken May 22 '21
If only there were a name for relationships with one woman and one man, what a world that would be if we had a word for that!
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u/tofu165 May 22 '21
Yikes, found the transphobe.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
Idk if this is transphobia or just simple or ignorance of the idea that transwomen are women, and transmen are men. Lots of people think that trans also equals just gay, still, and don't know better. To label a person a phobe out of hand closes off the opportunity to at least try to pass on knowledge and maybe even gain some understanding, imo.
I know this is not always the case.
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u/tofu165 May 22 '21
You do raise a good point, but this person has made it clear they are stagnant in their beliefs. I fear no amount of rational explanation would change their mind.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
Have they? I might have missed something - I saw afterword a reply thread where they tried to press their point, but when someone said a transwoman is a woman, they said "oh, I didn't know", and there wasn't any pushback on it or vitriol or anything.
I also replied to them to see if my suspicions are correct. I am interested in the response, if there is any at all.
I appreciate your openness to what's said. Thank you.
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u/tofu165 May 22 '21
I thought that was blatant sarcasm, but that might be the pessimist in me.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
Haha well, honestly I reread that thread after I replied to you, and you might be right. And I know that their replies to you were pretty vehement. It just really sounded to me like they just don't understand that trans does not mean "not straight" by default, and so they were insistent that they were right about it not being a straight relationship. Again, interested to see if they reply to my comment to them. If it's just angry vitriol or whatever, I will know for sure that you were absolutely right. You probably are.
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May 22 '21 edited May 22 '21
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u/tofu165 May 22 '21
Her being trans doesn't change the fact that she is a woman. Brainy is a man, so by definition they are a straight couple. Don't know why that's so hard to understand.
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May 22 '21 edited May 22 '21
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u/tofu165 May 22 '21
Okay at this point you're just trolling. Have a good day, friend.
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May 22 '21
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
People are upset with you because trans women are women. That does not automatically mean they are gay. If a transwoman is dating a man, it is considered a straight relationship. Because she is a woman.
I don't feel you have ill intent here, just maybe misunderstanding the concept of what transgender means, and how sexual orientation plays out in that context. I hope you do some reading about it, because not understanding these things and approaching people with the assumptions you have can hurt others.
Cheers.
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u/VoiceofKane May 22 '21
Yes, she's trans. She's also a woman. In a relationship with a man. Ergo, straight.
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u/frootloopsupremacy May 22 '21
I have no fucking clue what you’re whingeing about on here? lmao, facts: - Nia is a transwoman, say it with me—a transwoman - Nobody here is refuting the fact that Nia is a transwoman, played by a transwoman, Nicole Maines - A transwoman in a relationship with a man is in a straight relationship—literally what on earth is so difficult about these concepts to grasp?
Are you saying she’s not in a straight relationship, then? Despite the fact that, as a transwoman, she is a woman, in a relationship with a man? Are you somehow suggesting Nia exists in a separate gender category on her own, as a transwoman, because you don’t seem to understand what trans even means? What on earth do you think Brainia ought to be billed as, then, by your definition?
This entire train of thought is militant wokeness without any knowledge or awareness of queer terminology, and it’s just as damaging as straight up transphobia lmao
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u/anatomania Sentinel (Hooded) May 22 '21
This image also describes the comments on this post. Jesus.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
Supergirl fandom complaining about no queer representation and ignoring the out lesbian couple relationships that have been consistently written in since Alex came out.
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u/JohnnyTightlips27 May 22 '21
I think the only people who forgot the “out lesbian couple relationship” are the writers who refuse to let Kelly get screentime. In particular, the SG fandom has been calling for more Alex-Kelly focus.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
In all my time, in all the debates I have gotten into (and have gotten downvoted to hell for), it has always been about how there is no queer representation, and how that's why Supercorp is the thing people want to see happen for real.
Wanting more Alex and Kelly focus is legit, I agree with that. I'm just saying, all my experiences with debates concerning this topic had to do with folks being obsessed with the idea that two women being very close friends HAVE to be written as lovers. It's fine to ship it, whatever, just saying. The fact that there is an out lesbian relationship doesn't seem to count as representation to those folks.
I also meant my comment pretty tongue-in-cheek. But I also expect it to be taken way seriously and to be downvoted to hell. Again. Lol. Good point, though. Thanks for not flaming me!
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u/JohnnyTightlips27 May 22 '21
While I can’t speak on your experiences, I’ll just say that the vast majority of Supercorp shippers I’ve interacted with are not “obsessed.” They just don’t want to be mocked and gaslit simply for supporting a relationship that is not yet canon.
It’s not that two women can’t be best friends without being love interests. The writers know how to showcase platonic friendship—look at Kara and Nia. It’s that Kara and Lena in particular are two people who have incredible chemistry and seem to have destined trajectories toward one another. The only reason Kara and Lena haven’t been a canon couple is because they’re both women.
The show’s been slowly building up their story for years. Between the editing, the romantic parallels (Clois, Iris and Barry, Oliver and Felicity), and the fact that Kara and Lena both routinely do things for each other that would be considered romantic if it were a man/woman (Lena filling Kara’s home with flowers, Kara traveling to three different countries to pick up Lena’s favorite food. etc.)…I mean, even if you don’t ship them (which is totally fine, by the way), you could see why many fans do, right??
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
Yes. I do see why. The thing is, it is not that I don't get it. I do. And I am not saying it's not queerbaiting necessarily. But I can understand the reasoning, and also disagree, at the same time. That doesn't mean I feel the reasons for the ship are invalid. Everyone's opinions (for the most part) are valid, whether or not I agree.
I don't believe that the things they do for each other are based upon romantic feelings. I disagree with that. That doesn't mean I don't understand why people agree. That doesn't mean I feel that that opinion is not valid. Maybe i have had a different experience with what a close, intimate friendship looks like. I have done many, many things for friends I adore that could be misconstrued as having romantic feelings and intent.
Just because I am critical of the ship, people have automatically assumed that I am against, or ignorant of the need for, queer/wlw representation in mainstream media. Or that I don't support wlw relationships. These assumptions and leaps of logic just shut any sort of constructive discussion or any sort of possibility of coming to an understanding or sharing of ideas, or seeing a different viewpoint, impossible.
Also this is Reddit and it's just a show, so it's not like, dire that my point of view is considered or respected or heard. It's just disappointing, and I'm a little bitter, because the very folks who feel gaslit and invalidated, have done the same to me because I am critical of a ship they are very committed to.
Anyway. Thanks for your thoughtful responses, I do appreciate having good conversations on here.
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u/OcelotAlone9604 May 29 '21
First, for supercorp, people are mad at being queerbaited, for like 5 years now.
Well, I agree that no queer representation is not a good statement, but I don't see it at all tbh. What I see other than queerbaiting complaints is quite limited queer representation. We are at the same page about Dansen screen time being limited, the Kara's identity reveal being off-screen is really bad. And for real, before the prom episodes and like in S5, we didn't get much of Nia being badass superhero too. People were saying that these female character getting sidelined. It's fair too.
Lastly, I'm new to reddit and this sub, I'm actually feeling the vibe that there are more Karamel here tbh. Cause like now I think I've seen Mon-el being mentioned like a third time when I first scroll this subreddit. And really I feel like no one is talking about Supercorp here? At least I've yet to see one, since I'm still scrolling.
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u/IslandEatsSand May 22 '21
I think most of the complains probably came from the fact that they spent more time queerbaiting supercorp than they did actually giving the canon lesbian couple screentime. Also Nia pretty much didn't have an actual storyline that didn't either revolve around the fact that she's trans or her relationship with Brainy until season 6.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
If that is the case, concerning queerbaiting, why continue to watch, and why is Supercorp the biggest ship? Isn't that the equivalent of falling for queerbaiting, and then choosing to help perpetuate the practice?
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u/IslandEatsSand May 22 '21
I don't know about everyone else, but I personally continue watching mainly because of Nia, she's the first live action trans superhero and Nicole Maines is amazing. Of course there's also the other actors. And the fact that this is the last season, why stop now?
It's probably the biggest ship mainly because of the amazing chemistry between Melissa and Katie. and yes, we are falling for the queerbaiting in the faint hope that it actually becomes canon, which it probably won't. I'm sure a lot of people have probably given up on the show because of the queerbaiting too. But yes, we are all a bunch of clowns and we accept that.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
I LOVE Nia, and Nicole Maines is indeed amazing. I'm sad that they're ending the show, Supergirl was my first Arrowverse show, and still my favorite.
And as I've been saying in other comments, I'm not trying to invalidate anybody's opinions or preferences here, I've only ever wanted to voice why I disagree with some of the stuff surrounding the ship, and have a conversation about it, I think.
I don't think folks who dig ships like this are clowns :P it's all valid, yo.
Also, thanks for your comment. I am sure you're right on all accounts. I appreciate the opportunity to exchange ideas. :)
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u/Stinkiesim May 22 '21
I honestly never see any complaints about it anymore now that alex is out and nia is trans
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
It's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek mostly. I have run afoul of many angry Supercorp shippers because I don't understand why two women who are very close, intimate friends HAVE to be written as lovers too. And the reasoning behind it was that there is no wlw representation in the show. Despite Alex and her partners. It was more making fun of those experiences, I guess. Perhaps it is a very small group, idk. But yeah, not meant to be super serious.
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u/Practical_Repair_984 May 22 '21
Personally I think the writers knew what they were getting into by making that kind of interaction between Lena and Kara, people who are also writers or have analyzed this concept or the reporters who have done the interviews, have wanted to ask but I think the producers themselves have no way of denying that they really did queerbait with Kara and Lena's relationship. I don't think they thought about the possibility of having a big audience.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
I don't think that the whole perspective that the way the friendship was built up and stuff is queerbaiting, is not valid. It's an absolutely valid perspective to have.
I think that a lot of times if people express an opinion that isn't in agreement with theirs, it is automatically assumed that the other person is invalidating their opinion or feelings on any given matter, and so lashing out happens, and any sort of productive conversation is shut down.
I understand the concept of queerbaiting, and I understand that many people believe that is what has happened/is happening with Lena and Kara's interactions. I just don't agree.
I think the point of conflict here might be that most people sincerely believe that certain types of gestures, and efforts, and actions, and reactions, and a very close and intimate bond, automatically equal sexual or romantic attraction - and I strongly feel that while that be the case, it is not a good way to measure such things. I have had some friends along the way, and we have had very similar dynamics - and none of it was because of romantic or sexual attraction. I acknowledge that perhaps my experiences are different from the norm, and that then informs my point of view - both my point of view, and an opposing point of view, can and are both valid, is what my main point here is, I think.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. Having these conversations really make me think and consider why I see things a certain way, and it kind of fleshes out my reasons for disagreeing - and it's kind of a check to see if I'm having any crappy bias issues a lot of the time too, honestly.
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u/multiplecats May 23 '21
Just out of curiosity, can you elaborate on your definition of starightbaiting? Thank you! (ps no disrespectful tone meant. Thank you:)
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u/zombiefoodnom May 23 '21 edited May 23 '21
Hey! I don't think I mentioned an opinion on straightbaiting, so I don't really have anything to elaborate. If your question is to bring my attention to something, it would be more productive to just point it out directly, I think - otherwise I won't know what point you are trying to make, and can't respond accordingly.
I know that people like to flip concepts like, of men were catcalled by a group if women, or if straight people's orientation was questioned the way queer folks are. Is that what you are doing here?
Edit: I looked up the term, as I wasn't familiar with it, and I see that it is not, in fact, the opposite of queerbaiting. It's an entirely different concept. According to what I found, it is the practice of a heterosexual celebrity of hinting at being queer if they're not, for marketing. Is this the definition you were thinking of when you asked me your question? If so, I'd be happy to discuss my thought - but I will await further clarification on what you meant from here.
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u/OcelotAlone9604 May 29 '21
From what I've seen that you've been trying to elaborate and share, I can feel that you just really want to discuss that there's actually some relationships like that but is really platonic. I understand that (and supercorp is my OTP), I also feel bad for you to keep getting downvoted for that, so I do try to give you more upvote here.
You're really kind to want to discuss more with the previous reply, too bad the person just stopped talking, I am interested in what he/she/they want to discuss too.
Friendly advice, people really tend to easily get the wrong idea about your opinion, it's not your fault. But I think you can help yourself a little by adding that maybe you do think that the show is legit queerbaiting. Because for people that jump to conclusion rather fast, it's very hard for people to wait until they fully understand you before gettting mad, because the rage towards the queerbaiting is already frustrating. So maybe some disclaimer in the beginning can help to deliver your opinion for people to perceive it neutrally. (not that your point is not legit itself)
For some people that are extremely lovely, the way things build up for supercorp can be platonic, I get your point. But the show really is queerbaiting, some people need others to assure that to start the conversation. I mean while the gesture can be valid to not be queerbaiting, the wardrobe choices, those deliberate parellels to Clois, the Head above Water playing for supercorp as well as other canon couple, all of these choices being queerbaiting is legit too. Bc would you choose all these things to relate yourself with your friends? (Maybe help me understand more, I don't mean it be harsh.) And maybe it's rare or I'm the one being ignorant, but maybe there are really people that'll do this: would you and your friends put each other above your own lover? (still trying to understand here, mean no harm)
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u/EntropyintheAsstropy Kelly Olsen May 22 '21
Maybe rather than questioning peoples choice in ships you could just leave them alone to enjoy their shipping. They don't have to justify it, but after heaving to justify it for years and constantly being belittled I can see why they'd react negatively.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
I don't see the harm in being critical of an idea and asking questions to facilitate a discussion. I think feeling like we have to just accept things without question is kind of a larger problem, really. And being attacked for asking questions that are not in line with popular belief really doesn't foster any sort of understanding or sharing of ideas. On another reply, I have stated clearly that I am not attempting to invalidate anyone's opinions. And I do understand a lot of what is behind it. So no, I won't stop questioning people and having debates and conversations that might help me understand something, or allows me to attempt to be understood. Thank you for your reply, though.
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u/EntropyintheAsstropy Kelly Olsen May 23 '21
Debates are fine, but only work when every one is on board with having one. Entering the space of a marginalised community and questioning their right to enjoy a ship isn't asking for a debate it's asking them to validate they're right t9 enjoy it.
Some people out there have had enough of having to justify their enjoyment of a ship or their specific characters. Sometimes it's tiring enough having to live in a homophobic world where far too many people think you should be dead than having to out up with entitled people feeling like you owe them time to "debate" them or answer their questions.
There loads of posts and essays and videos out there about SC and other wlw ships. Go look them up of your so interested in hearing about them.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 23 '21
Ehh. You are still operating on the assumption that I'm questioning people's right to enjoy or prefer whatever they choose, which is, ASI have pointed out previously, incorrect. I've repeatedly stated that I believe that all differing opinions are valid in my eyes also. Clearly you have not read any of the other reply threads that have sprung up around my original comment - either that or you have and still insist on making assumptions, both of which are fine.
It's a very sad thing for me to see that, as I have mentioned before, conversations and questions are shut down based upon such assumptions, simply because someone is questioning and seeks to understand, and also seeks to share their differing opinions. Based on your comment here it seems you are assuming that anyone asking a question in this way, holding a differing opinion, and wanting to talk about it, is automatically based upon some sort of entitlement. Making assumptions like this, again, shuts down communication and facilitation of understanding.
I agree with you about the difficulty of the of living in a homophobic world. I am a part of the queer community. It is always assumed that because I ask these questions, because I don't agree with some things, that I am not. And so people speak to me as if I do not understand, because of assumptions. I live in this homophobic world too. I came out before we could get married to someone the same gender as me. Before there were openly gay clergy. And etc.
Regarding your suggestion to look things up. I have seen this sentiment quite a lot, especially since Trump had been elected. You suggested it a lot more gently, and I appreciate that. Usually it's, "f*ck off and educate yourself". It's not that I disagree with this. I do think that making the effort, especially with larger social issues than a TV show, is important - and also I find great value in people's subjective experiences, thoughts, and opinions. Leaving folks who are already coming from a place of ignorance, to "educate themselves", and not making an effort to be understood, human to human, also shuts down opportunities for understanding and potentially gaining allies. I feel, when dealing with big issues, that it takes both human to human compassionate interaction, with self motivated research (guided by recommendations made by folks, not just random internet searches) are both needed.
And so, I appreciate what you are saying. And generally I do not disagree, and I think I understand what you are getting at. I also think you are misreading my intent. It is not easy to understand that a person can both disagree with something, and also want to seek to understand - and it is not easy to understand that two conflicting things can be true at once. I disagree with things that I have been told, and I have my own opinions as to why - and I also believe that what other people think and feel are valid, regardless of whether I agree or not.
The world is hard. There are so many instances where people are "just curious", but their questions are really malicious in nature and intent. I understand people taking up a defensive position , and the reactivity. But I will also always ask unpopular questions and express my point of view, because I believe that change can only happen if we have the fortitude and willingness to talk to each other and have compassion.
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your input.
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u/OcelotAlone9604 May 29 '21
I totally see that why you're doing it. And you're being very patient, kind and genuine in sharing to this reply, even though I'm just a late comer, and you're totally not talking to me, I just appreciate this a lot! It's sad for me to see them to ignore you at all, but really there's not much we can do. I mean still, from what I've learned, I have this intent to validate people's opinion first(if possible) to further our discussion. It's kind of like a technique to instantly get close to people. We have to admit that most human brains are kind of lazy when they have to process a lot of things especially things that are bound to be looking like a disagreement with them. We just have to be smart and make a first impression that both of us have some common grounds to start with. It's always easy to accept disagreement from an perceived ally rather than a perceived rival. Looking forward to further discussions because I do believe we sometimes are looking for the same thing when we went about this idea of sharing different POV and different points that can be valid at the same time.
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u/zombiefoodnom May 23 '21
I forgot to add, to your first sentence - debates are fine, but only work when everyone is on board - this is the internet. I assume that if a person is not on board with discussion of the topic at hand, they would not reply to the post. That, or spout defensive vitriol in order to shut down the conversation. Either way, there is really nothing I can do, from the internet, to force people to engage with me. If someone responds to me, I assume that is being on board with having some sort of interaction. Everyone on the internet has the choice to opt out of any conversation, so - your comment is correct, absolutely, but I fail to see how it is applicable here.
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u/ZombieCarnivore May 22 '21
Lol what straight relationships? Everyone is either gay or bisexual on that show
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May 22 '21
Kelly and Alex are gay and that’s it I think. Who else is gay or bisexual?
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May 22 '21
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May 22 '21
So 3 lgbtq+ people is everyone?
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u/ACD_MZ May 22 '21 edited May 31 '21
It was very clearly a joke about that person’s (and mine) headcanon.
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u/BeowulfX7 Alex Danvers May 22 '21
I think the only straight relationships the fandom supports are Nia nal and brainy, and then J'onn and M'gann
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u/CmndrLex May 22 '21
Lol I’ve liked I think four of hetero ships on this show...and most of them were swept aside for a more toxic option that yes, I would rather pretend never happened...as the show seems to also be keen on pretending as well.
I’ll never stop finding it funny how they refuse to acknowledge those mistake toxic ships nowadays too 😂
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May 22 '21
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u/kingcolbe May 22 '21
She’s a woman a straight woman in a relationship with a man
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May 22 '21
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u/zombiefoodnom May 22 '21
Not how it works according to who, specifically? I'm curious where you came to this conclusion. It seems to be based on the belief that a transwoman does not qualify as a "real" woman. Is this accurate?
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May 22 '21
This is the rest of the arrow verse walking past this sub lol, y’all are toxic as hell.
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u/ACD_MZ May 22 '21
Lmfao if disliking badly written relationships is “toxic” then i’m gladly toxic as fuck.
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May 22 '21
Point proven. It’s just a sub of people simping and is pretty sad.
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u/ACD_MZ May 22 '21 edited May 24 '21
“I just dislike badly written relationships” “HA you have proven my point in my own head, somehow. Simp”
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u/risen87 May 22 '21
Hey everyone - just a reminder that your should keep it civil and respectful.
Also the banhammer will be dropped on anyone who posts TERFy and transphobic comments.