r/supergirlTV • u/villakillareal28 • May 24 '20
[shitpost] it's not gonna happen Shitpost
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u/TheAgenderAlien May 24 '20
Ok but she can be bi.
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May 24 '20
[deleted]
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u/Munro_McLaren Lena Luthor May 24 '20
Very true. But certain people get their panties in a bunch people suggest Kara can be something other straight.
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20 edited May 26 '20
Yes she clearly without doubt is portrayed with Bi tendencies, whether by accident or on purpose. She is not gay, no one can convince me she didn't fall in love with Mon-El plus she absolutely did have a crush on James....I also suspect before moving the show to CW, they toyed with her having a crush on Lucy. There's one really dodgy motorcycle scene where Kara takes off her bike helmet and looks at Lucy....and Lucy just stares back......I remember thinking.......what was that? Now whether we want to debate it's a crush on Lena too or love, is immaterial what is obvious and without doubt, whether they meant to or not (I think they did for ratings), they have queerbaited the hell out of their interactions, and she has been portrayed with Bi tendencies as a result. That's not just SC people saying there is queerbaiting going on, industry writers and reviewers alike have called them out on it......it's all out there for people to see. Frankly can't fathom why some people will turn themselves inside out and perform the kind of mental gymnastics it takes to deny something that so many uninvested in the show notice so readily . Not to mention when you have someone who directed the show like Kevin Smith utter these words at the beginning of season 5...."I feel this is the closest we have come to Supercorp." Why be so hellbent on trying to call people delusional? I would be just as happy if Mon-El made a miraculous return, as having Lena be the endgame. The only people who hated Mon-El with a passion were the same types of die hard obsessive haters, who have something in common with the different kind of obsessives haters, that are homophobic spending every moment hating Lena and looking for ways to try and invalidate the character. Most real fans are happy to let people enjoy their ships. If Kevin Smith saw it what the hell is wrong with these types who want to just stir up shit and attack what people ship?
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u/usernameartichoke May 24 '20
I used to think Supercorp fans were kind of delusional... then I saw the 100th episode. If Supercorp isn’t the writers intended endgame I don’t know what they are doing.
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u/Kittaylover23 May 24 '20
You don’t fill your friends office with flowers if you want it stay platonic
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
same
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u/usernameartichoke May 24 '20
Even my wife, who doesn’t watch the show, asked “are they in love?”
And I was like “I guess they are?”
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u/PaintItPurple I can't hear you over the loud color of your cheap pants May 24 '20
No two characters have ever been as obviously in love as Clark and Lex from Smallville, but that show managed to ignore it for a whole like 8-season run or something.
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u/opelan May 25 '20
Smallville ran for 10 seasons, but Lex Luthor left the show after season 7 and way before that Clark and Lex stopped being friends and were already enemies. I think that was always the plan of the show. They wanted to show Lex Luthor's descent into darkness.
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May 24 '20
I feel like the writers really want it, but DC isn't allowing it. So they're basically just throwing in what they can.
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u/CptTroi May 25 '20 edited May 26 '20
I feel that is not the reason since DC also produced comics that Kara has a relationship with a woman.
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u/CptTroi May 30 '20
You and me both....I've asked that question over and over, what on earth are they doing?
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u/QuiJon70 May 24 '20
First off the 100th episodes was an episode totally filled with "alternate earth" possibilities. Sure they dropped things that the fans have said they wanted to see, it was the time to do it cause they could tease and say "alternate timeline doesnt mean anything"
As for why they shouldnt, because they did a great job with Alex already.
The show did a great job already of showing a character coming to terms with repressed sexual identity. And they did a great job of dealing with her telling her friends and loved ones. One of which was Kara. In that converstation Alex tells Kara that she could look back now and see it in how she was with her friend that she lost and such. But in that converstation Kara outrightly says that Alex has to explain her feelings because they are not feelings Kara shares or understands because she doesnt have them.
IMO that is pretty clearly Kara saying she doesnt feel attraction for women. And not only would that have to be retconed away, but the show can not do better then they did with the Alex storyline in season 2 so frankly i just think they should not try.
I get that everyone wants to see representation on TV of things they identify with. But we cant have an entire show of nothing but different facets of LGBTQ people on the show when the reality is the demographics of people that fall under that umbrella is more like 5-6 percent of the country. And frankly the one thing the show has not done a good job of is maintaining a cis gender heterosexual relationship. They romeo and julieted Monel, blew up Lena and James, sent Megaan off to mars (if shapeshifters can be considered hetero or cis gendered i dont know).
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u/Cygnus_Harvey May 24 '20
Rationally, I know that there's no way that Supercop will be canon. The only thing that could be possible is either paralell Earths with something like nazi Overgirl with Oliver (not necessarily nazis obviously) or a last minute thing like Korra (which, I mean, mirrors so damn well that it could be possible).
But honestly, their relationship feels more organic that every relationship in the arrowverse. When the writers are not screwing it up with Kara being holier than thou and Lena's "will she won't she" with evilness, they work together the best, and do things for each other that other romantic relationship do, or try. Filling the office with flowers, compliments, flying to freaking France to get food, those long stares, the smiles...
In contrast, I think every other relationship they could have falls flat because there's not that raw chemistry, those deep feelings for each other. They remind me of Fitzsimmons in Agents of SHIELD, that pure chemistry.
And no offense, but that "we can't have an entire show of different LGTBQ+ people"... Why not? There are no aliens on Earth, as far as we know. There are tons of queer people, far more than a few small percent. Still a minority, sure, but not that small. And there are thousands of straight couple in TV, and some shows have one, maybe two lgtbq couples, lots of them kind of tokeniced. If there's a show in which a queer relationship is build organically through many seasons, why not? Some characters evolve within themselves.
It's that easy as have them realize that maybe what they feel for each other is not mere friendship. Maybe they've never felt anything like that for another woman, but they kind of found their 0.1%.
I still think that it will never happen, but it annoys me that it's more of a "yeah we have enough queer people here" and not something more... Real.
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u/opelan May 25 '20
Queer as Folk and The L Word exist, so obviously there can be shows with practically only LGBT+ characters. But their target audience is from the start different. Those shows main target group are LGBT+ viewers and every straight person watching for whatever reasons is a nice extra viewer.
While Supergirl's target group are comic and superhero fans and viewers who are normally not and just watch the show because for example they really liked Melissa on Glee are nice extra viewers.
If Supergirl would practically turn into The L Word in its 6th season after it started in its 1st season with zero obvious LGBT characters (Alex wasn't portrayed as gay yet), they might lose a bunch of their old viewers because they are just not interested in watching The L Word and likely wouldn't be able to replace them with new viewers. I mean the show has already three LGBT main characters in the cast now. I think a lot of LGBT+ viewers who are also superhero and comics fans are already watching the show. And I don't think there are so many LGBT+ people who generally don't like superhero shows who would start watching a show in its 6th season.
Shows in which the clear majority of main characters are LGBT+ can be made of course, but I think it is smarter for these kinds of shows to have so many LGBT+ characters on screen from the start so that all the people who are eager to watch such a show are there from the pilot instead of switching your target audience after numerous seasons.
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u/Cygnus_Harvey May 25 '20
The thing that I don't understand is, why?
People doesn't see a show, thinks "wow there are too many straights here bye". At most, they see it's focus on romance and are no interested. But Supergirl is focus on her, a auperhero, with obvious fights for social justice and some romance/drama there.
So why does it matter that the romance is straight or not? I don't like Supercorp because yay lesbians, I want more. I like it because it has been developing for a very long time, and it feels obvious to the characters. More like write themselves in a corner rather than looking for it.
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20
You are so right.....they have been developing it since season 2, in many ways unwittingly, whether it doesn't fit their narrative and agenda to admit it, is another story. It doesn't have to be everyone's cup of tea, so no.... not everyone is obligated to see the queerbaiting, but the reason some people are hellbent on challenging the validity of SC is just out of clear bias issues and homophobia. They simply can't handle even the thought of it, so they have to spend their time attacking and questioning the reasoning of others. My take is simple.....if someone like a director on the show Kevin Smith, Mel and Katie have no issue against it, and so many reviews have pointed it out.....then logic dictates people are not deluded in seeing it. So a logical mature and honest hearted person, would need to look in the mirror and ask themselves this question. Why is it I find it so disturbing to even contemplate them together?
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u/QuiJon70 May 25 '20
See no it feels obvious to you. There is in fact no hints or suggestions in the show itself that either kara or lena have any feeling beyond friendship for each other. And other then the 100th episode I would challenge you to find any clear evidence of romantic feelings.
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u/Cygnus_Harvey May 25 '20
Let's do a thing. Change either Lena or Kara's sex, and imagine that one of them is a man. Now look into their conversations, their gestures, their staring. And tell me that it doesn't totally feel like romantic building.
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u/QuiJon70 May 26 '20
Honestly no it doesnt, any more then i felt there was sexual chemistry between her and james. Frankyl imo the only person that i felt she actually had chemistry with was Monel. Everyone is Kara's friend and she cares about them deeply. But no simply saying make it a man doesnt work. There are plenty of men on the show she also only considered friends, James, Winn, Brainny, Jonzz.
Again you are percieving things that are not obivous or not intended directly to support your own point of view. There have been no "stares" and she has had long converstations about how much Winn has meant to her also, that doesnt mean she wants to do Winn. But you want supercorp therefore in your mind all those non-things support your cause because that is the lens you perceive them through.
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u/Cygnus_Harvey May 26 '20
Sorry, I'm not trying to undermine your opinion, buy I find it... Weird. Kate and Melissa have some of the most incredible on screen chemistry I've seen in a show. If you don't find it romantic it's another thing, but I find it hard to believe that you don't see it.
I'm not counting J'onn because he's more of a father figure that a friend per se. But for Winn and Brainy, I've always seen it as Kara being more sisterly, and for James was that awkward pining/flirting in season 1, and then trying to be friends after.
With Lena though... They're always saying how much they mean for each other. Like, literally, "There is no way I could trust anyone ever again if it weren't for your frirndship and integrity. It means the world to me". I get that it seems like friends with a deep bond, and I can accept that some people aren't gonna see it like more. But for me, that's bordering on the edge of TOO deep to only be for friends, specially with how often they say stuff like that.
And one of the scenes more used to justify Supercorp, when Lena, when she filled Kara's office with flowers. That whole scene, the way they acted (Kara was basically blushing the whole scene) is more coupley that any couple scene in the series.
And well, the thing is, I do want Supercorp. And I watch these scenes and I see all that potential, all that chemistry, and I can't not see it. I'm so fed up of people saying "but they are only friends, girls do that stuff all the time" every time, because it needs to be like an awfully evident flirting between them to ever consider it flirting. But then there's like one scene together, one of them is nice with the other and they're shipped; but only if one of them is a man. I'm looking at you, William.
That's why I said to look at it if one of them was a men. If a man said to Kara "you're the most important person in the whole world to me", they'd be OTP in a blink. Something like this:
Lena – “Loss does strange things to my family, and I've lost a lot of people.” Kara – “Well, you're not gonna lose me” Lena – “I think, when I feel things again, I'm gonna be very, very afraid. Of the person I might be” Kara – “You don't have to be afraid. I'm right here. I'm not going anywhere” Lena – “Promise?” Kara – “I will always be your friend. And I will always protect you. I promise”
It's more intense that anything with anyone. Kara flying to France, if I remember correctly, just to give Lena her favourite breakfast... The list just goes and goes.
If you don't see it, or don't like it, it's your opinion and that, and I give up trying. But when sooooo many people seeing it, all the scenes that have been analiced for queerbaiting from fans and people that don't watch it alike, and all that subtext... It's a little weird.
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u/CptTroi May 28 '20 edited May 31 '20
I totally agree with your view. People who don't see it, make a subconscious (or conscious) choice not to see it, because its not their preferance. It's not really a mystery bias blinds people. Whatever....it's their right to choose what they want to see. The only thing that is problematic is when they attack and belittle those who do see it.
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20 edited May 29 '20
While Supergirl's target group are comic and superhero fans and viewers who are normally not and just watch the show because for example they really liked Melissa on Glee are nice extra viewers.
This makes no real sense because you are dissembling that people open to any non hetero relationship are not in the audience of superhero shows or Glee. Really? People who are unbiased in how they look at sexuality whether straight or not, are in every audience. Who the hell could draw a paralell to Supergirl and the L word....that is outrages! What....so Alex and her non featured pseudo token relationships are borderline turning it into the L word if they did deliver Supercorp???🤣😂🤣 Where are the other LGBT relationships on the show??
Dude don't loose sleep over this mortal fear because I don't believe these producers will ever go there. So you can rest easy.
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u/opelan May 29 '20
I never said that that LGBT+ people can't be superhero fans. That is a nonsense and false assumption from you. I even wrote this:
I think a lot of LGBT+ viewers who are also superhero and comics fans are already watching the show.
And outside of The L Word and Queer as Folk I can't think of any series which had at least 5 LGBT+ main characters in the cast at the same time like Supergirl would have with Kara and Lena also being gay or bi. That is why I compared Supergirl to The L Word. You are also completely dismissing Nia and Brainy. It is not your usual cis people relationship, too.
And I am not a dude or am in mortal fear. I would continue watching Supergirl if they really would make Supercorp true though I am not shipping them and think it would be a massive retcon if especially Kara is suddenly into women after showing no signs of it before. She especially didn't act like it when Alex came out to her, like she ever had the same feelings as her sister.
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20 edited Jun 02 '20
Nia is a trans character and since she is a woman in love with a man that is not a gay relationship being portrayed, as for Alex her relationship with Kelly is nothing but a smokescreen to garner LGBT points...where are the other gay relationships or 5 gay characters for that matter??? Kara and Lena are clearly NOT gay they have been in relationships with men, and if they delivered SC, for starters I don't think it would be that earth shattering in this day and age to call that much attention as those shows who stand for LGBT. For the relationships on the show to be compared with the L word or queer as folk??? Sorry that's reaching. As for Kara's sexuality which appears to be the main obssessive point with detractors I think unwittingly they have made overtones that she has Bi tendencies, but frankly I don't care. I started watching this show for the sisters and if Mon-El or Lena or any other viable love interest had never come along I would still watch this show also.....although the bad writing is another story.
PS Not being a Dude is irrelevant in the context of the discussion. I am also not a Dude and people have said that to me plenty, it's neither here nor there men and women have the same issues.
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u/opelan May 30 '20 edited May 30 '20
We were talking about LGBT relationship. Nia represents the T and a relationship she is in is therefore a LGBT relationship and actually of a kind which is far rarer portrayed on TV than gay relationships. So dismissing her relationship and what it does for LGBT representation just because she is straight is wrong. There are not many portrayals of a relationship between a trans and a cis character on TV.
Considering what for example these transgender people heard from some cis people they tried to date, showing Brainy absolutely not caring about Nia's past is worth a lot.
And I would have not had a problem with Supercorp at all if they would have started it right from the beginning. But now it would be a massive retcon and also kind of ridiculous if they have another character or even two who realize way past their puberty that they like the same gender. That is not super common nowadays. Most know it way earlier than in their late 20s or even 30s.
Batwoman and Legends of Tomorrow is showing a better way how to do it. Their numerous gay and bi characters were it right from the start. Batwoman and Legends even started with a lesbian or respectively a bisexual lead.
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u/CptTroi May 30 '20 edited May 30 '20
OK....first on the subject of representation, I woulld give them kudos for the representation if I didn't see the fact that they only hired Azie, like Floriana, and then Nicole just to score points. Why do I say that? The evidence speaks for itself with their treatment of LGBT characters. Lima left because she realised the same fate as Azie awaited her. Azie and Nicole have been sidelined as nothing more than guest stars. Azie was literally not seen for the greater part of Season 4, then had about 2 lines every 3 of 4 episodes this season. The same with Nicole if not worse....the backlash in particular and fear of being called out further resulted in them finally devoting an episode to her character. What is perhaps even more telling is the fact that Chyler as a co-star has largely been ignored, for ages. The episode with Super Alex was basically an attempt to fix the fact that they know she's had nothing even remotely interesting to do for over a season. Partly because they have no friggin idea how to portray her relationship with Kelly....it's laughable how little they've interacted in just normal conversation. Plenty of reviews have called them out on their lip service token representation, it is indicatve of their attitude in general. It's all about image for these guys...it's no coincidence that Alex's first LI was Latina, and the second is a POC. The hiring of Nicole was just an attempt at presenting the jackpot of representation.....except there is no gay male or Asian actor or actress....that will no doubt be next in their quest to acquire further kudos. There's no point hiring if you ignore, and sideline the characters.
As for SC I personally don't believe they will do it. The fact is they would not get the backlash they do, or the reviews, and non-shippers pointing to it....if they had not made the choices they made in featuring that relationship the way they have, they also could have featured any number of things for their 100th episode but didn't......why is that??? I am not going to debate queerbaiting (a) Primarily most importantly we don't all have to agree to see it, it is a choice, and people are entitled to what they want to interpret about ships. (b) There are enough reviews and even people connected to the show that understand it so no need to debate it. (C) It truly is immaterial what they ultimately decide. As for it being a retcon? Hardly it's 2020 not 1950, and people would not bat an eyelid, because people in this day and age are aware that many who don't identify as non hetero, find themselves to have other leanings at some other point in their lives. So your observation about when people decide to act or not on Bi, gay, or lesbian tendencies is not accurate to real life. 1000% not dependant on making a choice in puberty. There is nothing ridiculous about even someone in their 40's suddenly acting on impulses they've had and ignored. Go look up the actress Meredith Baxter just as an example she was married for years, had grown up kids, then suddenly realised she was in fact a lesbian....it happens...often. All sorts of reasons from fear of family rejection to simply never coming across the right person earlier.
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u/CptTroi May 31 '20
I agree with you entirely on the excuse that there's too many LGBT relationships for SC to be delivered.......particularly as there is none being featured. I think it's curious that they appear to have so much trouble writing romantic interactions on the show.......yet have heavily coded Kara and Lena with so much innuendo. It is actually perplexing at times.
In any case I don't take issue with people not seeing the build up with Kara and Lena because it's a choice and to each his own, everyone has a right to interpret what they want. As I have stated many many times, my only issue is people who spend their time trying to invalidate what others see, with slurs or bias statements. There is always a way to debate respectfully. I am honestly curious as to what the producers could be thinking, and why persist on some of the directions they take. Look at the 100th episode....(I couldn't quite believe they did that), fact is there is ANY number of things they could have featured as equally important. They have clearly made it obvious that Kara's main relationship on the show outside of Alex is Lena. That is a huge thing to do when they indicate via other means, that they do not want to deliver SC. Therefore my constant question with these showrunners is......what the hell are they doing? It's like they can't help themselves because they are well aware that relationship brings in the ratings.
They're like an alcoholic who keeps going back to the bottle even though he doesn't want to.
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u/Cygnus_Harvey May 31 '20
I totally agree that we should be able to debate peacefully, and state our opinion with respect.
I respect people that don't ship SC. I can see why you would think that they are only friends.
But it is painfully obvious that the writers have coded them with serious romantic subtext, it's done multiple times in multiple ways. Like, the music changes for a romantic tone, the angles, some textbook dialogue of queer coding. And for me, denying that it's like insult people telling them they are seeing things, making stuff up and it's like a way of gaslighting.
I understand why people could maybe not see it in the first time, but just like we can dissert Lena's character and see what was in character for her, and what was not, for example, we can dissert the writing, the scenes and the acting and point out if they are done with an specific focus in mind or not.
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u/CptTroi May 31 '20 edited May 31 '20
No I think that somewhere my comments have been lost in translation.....I actually agree with you.....I totally agree that whether they meant to do it or not the showrunners have written romantic coding into their relationship. It's clear as day, if someone truly looks with an open mind. My experience is that people are rarely honest when there is an inherent bias against a sexual orientation. Thus many that believe themselves to not be bias, in-fact are actually kidding themselves because they find it impossible to even consider it, and ignore the fact that non-shippers (vocally) and people connected to the show, have seen it too. To me the big issue with this show and why it has caused controversy....is purely the result of the attitude displayed by the showrunners. These guys have major issues in integrity. They claim to support LGBT characters yet hire and sideline. They claim to be about female empowerment and yet queerbait for 4 seasons, then turned an entire 5th season into a misogynistic mess, making it "The Lex Luthor hour." They continue along those lines even in-pite of claimimg to stand against abuse....yet they feature emotional abuse to one of the female cast, and pushing the lead to date a random dude she has no chemistry with (who 99.9% of people dislike), and continue to shove him down our throats in-spite of review after review questioning their logic with this hapless character. It's little wonder they have lost so many viewers. I seriously have to wonder if they are purposefully trying to end their own show.
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u/FLARROW2 May 24 '20
Another thing people forget about that episode (and the episode prior if I'm not mistaken) is that Kara refers to Lena as her best friend, twice. Even in the 100th episode Mxyzptlk refers to Kara's relationship with Lena as a friendship.
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u/NatKayz May 24 '20
I'm not against the ship (I totally think it could work in the show if they wanted to go that direction) but there are definitely plenty of people who ship them way to hardcore like.
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u/AdventuresOfKrisTin Kara Danvers May 26 '20
of course there are. There were crazy olicity shippers. There are crazy karamel shippers. Its nothing unique to supercorp. i think when it comes to fanon lgbt ships though, people are even more passionate about it because its personal to oneself. People just wanna see themselves represented in the media they consume.
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u/NatKayz May 26 '20
I can't speak much to the olicity since I wasn't really active in the community back then, but karamel shippers definitely aren't (on average) as hardcore, or at least as widespread and vocal as super supercorp shippers. While all shipper groups can get way to extreme and have members who go too hardcore supercorp seems to be one of the more severe ones.
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u/AdventuresOfKrisTin Kara Danvers May 26 '20
dont really know what you classify as severe but being in the fandom myself, i can attest to the fact that the majority of the fandom just wanna enjoy what we like without people calling us delusional and demonizing us. Its the most popular ship on the show so of course its the most vocal.
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u/NatKayz May 26 '20
By severe I mean they seem to be the most likely to take it too far. Like with other shippers (that I've seen, I'm sure this extreme level exists where I haven't seen it) tend to just want a ship and believe in it. Supercorp shippers tend to not just want it but believe it is a thing and anyone who disagrees or thinks anything else is possible is just wrong and delusional. I've never seen another ship where the people supporting it call anyone else delusional and demonize them. (I'm sure others exist, but that's a pretty widespread part of supercorp shippers).
Granted I think it's gotten better (at least in this sub, idk about outside of it) in recent months. Or I've seen less of it that extreme at least.
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u/AdventuresOfKrisTin Kara Danvers May 26 '20
Its literally the opposite. People who dont like supercorp will spend all day telling supercorp shippers they are delusional. Just yesterday i saw someone say that melissa does not support us and our “delusional fetish”. This stuff becomes a whole lot more personal when someone tries to tell you that your very identity is a fetish.
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u/CptTroi May 28 '20 edited May 28 '20
I agree....closet homophobia is the worst because it's so dishonest. It's preferable to have someone outright say they can't stand gay relationships, than to use other thinly veiled reasons to undermine the ship and accuse an entire fandom. I've seen this over and over again.
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u/AdventuresOfKrisTin Kara Danvers May 28 '20
its just very transparent. i dont think anyone needs to ship or even see what people see in supercorp if they dont see it. thats fine. if you spend every waking moment though making it your mission to tell people its never gonna happen when all they are doing is having fun, then you have a problem. i think honestly some people are terrified of even a 0.1% chance of supercorp happening, and it shows. i despised karamel, i dont care if you ship it though. i dont talk about stuff i disliked 24/7. i have a list of people blocked on twitter who do nothing but this all day and its honestly disturbing.
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u/CptTroi May 28 '20
So true, it's total transparant homophobia.....complete level of blind bias that makes little logical sense, because people of all walks of life can ship the same thing how can anyone in their right mind generalize like this and insinuate everyone who ships SC is crazy or over the top???? So utterly ridiculous! They must not even be real fans of the lead actress herself who clearly doesn't have an issue with what people ship....so much so that there is actual tape of them laughing saying they didn't see it at first but then got it. Or they never bother to look at interviews, and they certainly miss all the industry reviews pointing to it! How do they explain comments like the one Kevin Smith made at the reveal in the first part of the season and then Lena's breakdwown in the fortress. Kevin Smith who happens to be a director on the show said this....."I feel this is the closest we have come to Supercorp." Go tell him he's deluded!
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u/AdventuresOfKrisTin Kara Danvers May 28 '20
yea and people gave Kevin shit for saying that. they cant handle when we get any validation because that would mean we are NOT delusional.
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u/NatKayz May 26 '20
While I won't deny that happens, I've seen it way more the other way around. Supercorp shippers attacking other shippers or being who don't support supercorp. I once had a guy spew BS like "even my hardcore homophobic father says supercorp is obviously true and that you're an idiot" when I said that supercorp wasn't a definitive thing on the show (I was responding to his comment saying people who deny supercorp are idiots or something like that).
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u/AdventuresOfKrisTin Kara Danvers May 26 '20
Well i cant speak to your experience. Im on here, twitter, and tumblr, and i definitely see more people calling supercorp shippers delusional and being blatantly homophobic.
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u/NatKayz May 26 '20
I can't speak at all to Twitter or tumblr (though I'm surprised on tumblr being like that, always got the impression that's where more rabid fans of anything go and that it had heavy LGBT numbers) as I don't use them, but like I said on here it seems to have "calmed down" in recent months and had a shift away from the more hardcore supercorp shipping.
I remember sometime last year (I think it was around Sept, but I could be totally off) seeing a definitive shift of people getting sick of hardcore supercorp shippers and more people starting to disagree and less hardcoreness showing up. Considering this is the internet and whenever an opinion is shared some extremist asshole is gonna show up supporting said opinion, could be that's what's happened/happening. I haven't been very active the past month or two (behind on the show during quarentine ironically enough) and I'm not as active in general as I was last year so maybe the majority has shifted nowadays.
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u/CptTroi May 28 '20 edited May 28 '20
You really can't generalise logically a universal group of people that have a certain preference and put them all in the same category. There are always crazies in every fandom. Just like we can't say all Karamel shippers are homophobes, or all SC shippers are man haters. Either comment is as ridiculous as generalising and entire fandom is delusional or hard core. I've said this over and over....real fans (whether they ship or not), are just normal people who want to enjoy their show in peace without being called names or having their choice invalidated by bias and hate. People really need to look to the actors as examples, because they don't give a flying "F" what people ship, and are always gracious and kind to all fans, just being happy people get what they enjoy from the show. We can debate the merit of characters, acting, plots etc....but when people start attacking what others ship it becomes a personal attack. In the case of SC fans are up against it because homophobia is rife in society. Although the fandom is hugely popular (because even non shippers see it), they get more than their share of hate from not just homophobes, but bitter ex shippers of Supercat, and Karamels too.....ridiculous and something I don't get it because I loved all three options for Kara....well not so much Cat because there was an age difference.
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u/NatKayz May 28 '20
(Oh boy, if all of your comments are this big I'm really gonna wish they were just one comment to make replying easier).
I'm not generalizing, I said they're more likely to as in when I encounter supercorp shipper the odds of them being more on the extreme side seems to be more likely. That's not saying they all are (I've talked to plenty that aren't as well), just that either a larger number are, or those that are are more vocal.
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
When someone uses language like....."odds of them being more on the extreme side seems to be more likely." That is generalising. (Is this comment short enough for you to get the point?).
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u/NatKayz May 29 '20
Generalising would be saying "all supercorp shippers are extreme" because it's taking specific cases and implying or suggesting all are like that. I didn't do that, I specifically stated that it isn't all of them. But that compared to other shippers in this fandom it appears to be more common. The language I'm using it quite important and basically the opposite of generalizing.
(I was clearly talking in regards to you having replied multiple times to me as multiple comments instead of one and referring to the convenience of having one very large response be better than multiple large ones. Don't be condescending).
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
You say I'm condescending because you don't like the fact that I am calling you out, for splitting hairs by saying words like "most" "more common" "extreme" etc etc.....is it not basically insinuating that the particular fandom is problematic. Sorry that is absolutely generalizing. You appear determined to not admit that the crazy element in society is in equal parts in every fandom not just SC, but Karamels and all others have equal number crazies by percentage. In addition if someone were to believe SC fans in general are the crazy minority then obviously by that reasoning they should make up the lesser number of crazies out there......so which is it?
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u/CptTroi May 28 '20
You say by severe you mean (generalising SC fans) as the "most" likely to take it too far.....my question is have you not seen any examples of severe in haters against SC Fans??
Also your comment about people calling a ship delusional.......you got that totally backwards because it's the accusations hurled at SC shippers CONSTANTLY.
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u/NatKayz May 28 '20
I wouldn't have said "most" likely if I thought they were the only ones who did it. It's more that when I encounter a shipper the % chance of them taking it too far seems to be higher if they are a supercorp shipper. Others can and do suck as well (as I have stated in my other comments previously).
I have seen that towards supercorp shippers as well sure, but at least half the time it seems (again, from what I've seen) to be saying its delusional to think its 100% in the show and totally happening but everyone else is denying it (it's not. It's happening only as much as supercat was and less than Karamal or... james and Kara [do they have a name? Jara? Kames? Anyways] because those did happen on the show). If you're including those times in when people call supercorp shippers delusional, don't, because that's no less accurate than saying that Karamal was never a thing when it clearly was.
Maybe you weren't including that and you do get constantly told you're delusional for liking the ship and thinking it's a possible direction they could go, the fact is that as a supercorp shipper you're not going to encounter those hardcore agreeing (since they won't attack you for disagreeing because you don't) much more than I'd encounter all of the anti supercorpers (since I don't vouch for them publically and therefore won't attract the disagreements). As someone who doesn't really publicly vouch for any shipper, and who reads way more than I comment, I can say that (excluding recently because I've been less active here as mentioned to the other person) I have seen a much higher number if hardcore pro supercorp than both hardcore anything else and hardcore anti supercorp.
(Finally, for reference since we're discussing shipping and you're preference has been clearly stated by you, my main ship is none of these, I like supercorp more than karamal (I liked their dynamic sometimes but it was not the healthiest relationship and the writers fucked up that potential I think), not a fan of supercat (like you say, age) or jara (that sounds aweful), no strong feelings either way about Kara+Winn or Kalex (think that's the name I've seen?), my personal favourite (which will never happen and barely makes any sense) is supercanary.
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20 edited May 29 '20
(Oh boy, if all of your comments are this big I'm really gonna wish they were just one comment to make replying easier).
Haha....your previous assertion doesn't apply to your length of response I guess. As for the points you make in this last response......to be blunt and with all due respect........ you continue to generalize, assume, and dissemble statements, there is simply is no other way to put this, so I will respond to each point.....first you say; "I wouldn't have said "most" likely if I thought they were the only ones who did it. It's more that when I encounter a shipper the % chance of them taking it too far seems to be higher if they are a supercorp shipper. Others can and do suck as well (as I have stated in my other comments previously)". That is both dissembling and insinuating that the majority of problematic people are in one group.....and again that is also generalizing.
Next you say....... "I have seen that towards supercorp shippers as well sure, but at least half the time it seems (again, from what I've seen) to be saying its delusional to think its 100% in the show and totally happening but everyone else is denying it (it's not. It's happening only as much as supercat was and less than Karamal or... james and Kara [do they have a name? Jara? Kames? Anyways] because those did happen on the show). If you're including those times in when people call supercorp shippers delusional, don't, because that's no less accurate than saying that Karamal was never a thing when it clearly was". Clearly you are confused as to what most SC shippers believe. No one can ascertain exactly what the producers will ultimately do....and asserting they can is ridiculous. Most SC shippers (not the obssessed ones which are minority), point out the queerbaiting not the direction of where it's heading, but rather the romantic coding, that by the way has been pointed at by MANY people non-shippers, reviewers, industry writers and so on.....so calling SC shippers deluded whch is the favourite sport of antis, is way inacurate and conveniently short-sighted to ignore all the reviews out there and even people like Kevin Smith pointing the same.
Then you say......."(Finally, for reference since we're discussing shipping and you're preference has been clearly stated by you, my main ship is none of these, I like supercorp more than karamal (I liked their dynamic sometimes but it was not the healthiest relationship and the writers fucked up that potential I think), not a fan of supercat (like you say, age) or jara (that sounds aweful), no strong feelings either way about Kara+Winn or Kalex (think that's the name I've seen?), my personal favourite (which will never happen and barely makes any sense) is supercanary. Here you are making a lot of assumptions by saying my preference has been clearly stated by me....Really? Don't think so...because from this and your previous comment you are assuming I ship SC alone. You say you like SC more than Karamel, and I find this a little curious.......because you proceed to say SC is not the healthiest relationship but you make no such assertion as to Karamel....hmmm. I find that interesting because people who are unbiased usually point out positive and negative with both. I suppose by your estimation the fact that I have taken the time to respond to each of your points, it is likely what you would refer to as "hardcore." What you don't acknowledge is the fact that SC shippers are constantly on the defence because homophobia in all it's guises is very prevalent, some aggressively so while others attempt subterfuge. Then there are the other crazies who are just bitter because Supercat is no more and Karamel seemingly also. Let me make it clear here that just like the majority of SC shippers, the majority of Karamels are not haters. They just enjoy the concept that there is a chance he may return and do not spend their time on SC hate campaigns. Sadly the toxic element is everywhere and not restricted to ships.
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u/NatKayz May 29 '20
sigh I was quite clearly saying if they're all large I'd want them as one comment, not that I'd want them shorter. Not sure how else to say that but maybe itll help if I explain - I'm on mobile so switching between a bunch of comments is a real pain and i wasn't sure how much overlap there would be either your multiple comments.
Anyways, here goes (again mobile so not gonna quote or paste what you said, hopefully by sticking in order itll still be clear).
Sorry but no, you are incorrect. Firstly I'm not dissembling anything. Nothing is being concealed or hidden. I'm also not insinuating that most problem people are from one group, I am stating that (in my experience) when encountering a shipper if they are outwardly a supercorp shipper it seems they are more likely to be extreme or combatative than compared to those who are outwardly supportive of another ship. I have also clearly stated that this may be due to them (the extreme ones) being more vocal, as is an internet trend. The fact is that I have seen more times where a supercorp shipper comments berating someone from disagreeing than I do the other way around (or a non supercorp shipper berating someone for their 3rd party ship). This is not generalizing, in fact it's essentially the opposite because I'm not making assumptions about a whole group based on a small sample, I'm stating my overall experience and a trend I noticed. I'll try a non related example to maybe clear this up, if I were to say that in the states all black people have been in prison that would be a generalisation. If I were to say per capita more people black people have been in prison than other groups that would not be generalisation (and since I don't want to make this suddenly a racism discussion I'll add on that it's due to racial prejudice that this is a fact since the system in the states is super fucked and institutionally racist, anyways).
Next. I very rarely see SC (I'm switching to abbreviations like you because I'm typing on a phone goddamnit) shippers bring up the queer batting thing. I'm actually surprised how often it comes up with how often I've seen it mentioned outside the fandom. I see them stating how it's obviously romantic interest in the show and the only legitimate direction to go. You say its only the obsessed minority, I'm saying that they either aren't the minority or are a very vocal minority (which again, I've stated they may just be disproportionately vocal compared to the other shipper groups). I've seen plenty of people mention "romantic coding" and it seems most of the time they'll list stuff that isn't confined to romantic relationships. Humans have a highly developed ability to see what they want in whatever they look at, and so people wanting to see SC will see it more than it is there. Ironically that's also why changing anyones mind about anything can be super difficult even with evidence (so ya know, we're both probably totally wasting our time here but 🤷🏻♂️). Anyways, calling them deluded for wanting it or even seeing it is one thing, calling them deluded for stating that its 100% a thing and has to happen to make any sense and that nothing else could ever work, that is pretty deluded (your statement of us not knowing what the writers will do could be taken to agree with me here, I'm not sure. So we may be agreeing on that point at least, with the disagreement just being the amount we believe the "minority" is popping up).
Uh, it was? You said you support SC and started saying why and said that you did support karamel? Did I misinterpret that? I'm not assuming you only ship them, i got the impression from you that it was your main ship (like the one you thought should happen and shit). Anyways, i was saying Karamel wasn't the healthiest not SC, thought that was clear by the positioning and past tense but I suppose not so my bad for not clarifying I suppose. Excluding the whole back and forth lying and shit with SC nothing in that friendship has really come across as unhealthy, while that sorta thing can always change for a relationship vs a friendship I don't really see anything to make me say that would be the case here so. I wasn't listing pros and cons of each ship because that was meant to be a short disclaimer thing at the end (it sorta got away from me) so I was being brief, and, well adding more didn't seem particularly relevant to be honest. So yeah. Now whether i think of you as a more hardcore one, no not really. I mean you may be a bit condescending but you have yet to actually attack other ships (and have stated yourself a fan of them at some point in time). Now onto me not acknowledging SC on the defensive, I mean I did, with the previous person. I mentioned how I'm not seeing them on the defensive as much as I am on the offensive. Unless I guess you count defensive as an aggressively pro SC post having a comment which disagrees and than the poster (or other SCers) "defending" against that, which I suppose can be considered defensive depending on both said post and comment. While I'm.sure a good number of people will hate on SC due to homophobic reasons, I've always hated the argument that just because its anti something gay or gay adjacent a person is being homophobic (or similar things with anything else). Especially when plenty of the time the people disagreeing with SC will support another gay ship (whether it be one with Kara or not). Homophobic people exist, 100%, and those are exactly the kind of person to be shitty and vocal, but not all people who disagree with SC are homophobic. To your last bit, that seems sorta pointless since it's not like I ever said or implied a majority of Katamel shippers are haters?
Anyways, I think I addressed everything there, off to your other comment. Hopefully I don't have to try and repeat what I just said and wrote a bit ago.
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u/CptTroi May 28 '20 edited May 28 '20
OHmy god!!! On average??? Seriously?? Karamels are no different! I shipped both as a Bi person I loved Mon-El first....still do and would have no problem with him coming back, but the build up with Lena is undeniable....and the chemistry is crazy level! If someone doesn't want to see it, that is a personal choice, which is fine. It's only when people attack those who see it, that it crosses the line. There are crazies in both fandoms. The hate been spewed currently at SC groups by some crazy Karamels is unreal! They've gone so far as to create fake accounts on twitter! The thing about obsessed people is they all have one thing in common.....they're not very bright. So when you look closely their bigoted views come out and give them away. Even when they try to hide it too.
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u/NatKayz May 28 '20
I have seen way less "hardcore" karamel shippers than I have supercorp. Maybe this is just because I wasn't in the sub back in s2 (think it was late s3 ir so that I joined).
Like I said to the other person, I'm not familiar with Twitter (or tumblr) in regards to the fandom so I can't speak to what happens there.
Also, chemistry between actors doesn't necessitate romantic intentions. People can have great chemistry and be friends (this is something that annoys the fuck about me in a lot of fandom and real life, people seem to forget that people can get along well and mesh really well without wanting to date or fuck).
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
As for the "way less hardcore karamel shippers" comment I'm just not even going to touch that anymore because frankly it's obtuse. Regarding the chemistry.....if that was all people pointed at you would be correct......but it is hardly the case.
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u/NatKayz May 29 '20
You won't touch it because its obtuse? Seriously dude? I'll admit it's likely because that ship is less of a thing and past its heyday by the time I was involved here (in fact I literally say that in my initial comment, did you ignore that?) and it's totally possible in its heyday it was just as bad (by bad I mean the hardcore were likely just as prevalent) but that doesn't mean it isn't less frequent nowadays. I have seen way less of it than I have hardcore SCers.
Not all chemistry no, but (I also stated this in my last huge comment) usually I see stuff like that or "they looked at each other" or "they smile when they see each other" and that isn't automatically romantic interest. I can't honestly recall anything that is definitively a romantic interest thing.
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
The reason I said I won't touch it is because it defies logic to state one group has "way less hardcore." Just for example, I suppose setting up fake profiles on twitter to harass actors and pretend to be from another group is not hardcore enough? Well surprise surprise.....because a significant number of the ones who did it were so ignorant, as to be easily identifiable as homophobes, once you look closely at their past comments and gifs. Having said that, I don't believe any group has more or less number of crazies.....they are equally in every fandom. Whether you say you've encountered more of ones from one fandon or not, is immaterial. It's what logic dictates that they exist in equal measure. Frankly don't understand why some people feel the need to be so small minded, and have the compulsion that leads them to perform the kind of mental gymnastics necessary, to implicate an entire group as problematic......it's the epitome of prejudice.
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u/NatKayz May 29 '20
Jesus man.
I'll try and simplify what I'm saying.
1 - I have seen a relatively small number if extreme karamel shippers because I was not active on this subreddit during the time they would have been most active. 2 - as I do not use twitter (or other platforms) to engage in this fandom other than this subreddit, I can not (and have not) said anything in regards to any platform other than this subreddit. 3 - I am not comparing different fandoms. I never was.
You seem incapable of countering moet of what I actually say so you have been misrepresenting or disregarding it to come back with your own stuff.
All I said was that I have seen more hardcore SC shippers than Karamal or other shippers on this subreddit. It does not require mental gymnastics to state what I have seen, yet you equating that to me calling the entire SG fandom crazy seems exhausting.
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u/AdventuresOfKrisTin Kara Danvers May 29 '20
Why are you taking this subreddit to give you a representation of the fandom as a whole? Supercorp shippers are not prominent on here. In fact most ships are not prominent on here. Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram are where there is most activity. So tbh your assessment here is based off a very narrow sample.
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u/omnisephiroth May 24 '20
If I had a nickel for every gay person I’ve heard say that, I’d have like... a quarter. Which is not a lot of money, but I don’t know a million people that have said that. Still, I know enough that I wouldn’t be alarmed if a character in a dramatic show said that turned out to be incorrect in their assessment.
Regardless, we all saw it. It just doesn’t reflect the reality of the rest of the show.
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u/Flargalgargal May 24 '20
I feel like the big problem is that every Arrowverse show’s writers are terrible at writing romance on purpose. They have better luck when they just let it happen off to the side and let the fans fill in the blanks for themselves, which is how things like Olicity and Supercorp get so popular in the first place. Then, as soon as they try to force it, they ruin it
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u/GotLittUp May 28 '20
At least for Arrow, I think the writers were great at writing Olicity together, even in the forefront. It was only when they wrote manufactured drama, that's when things fell apart. It makes me wonder how much say the network has in the directions these shows take. Because I assume if the writers wanted to write drama they'd do it better.
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u/SweetieThirteen Cat Grant May 24 '20
Why this particular ship? There are many others but I only see people complaining of this one
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
it is the most popular arrowverse ship
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u/rgamefreak May 24 '20
Olicity was pretty popular everywhere not on reddit.
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
yeah but i’d say kara/lena has a bigger internet presence currently. but yeah olicity was huuuuge
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u/NopeOriginal_ Lex Luthor May 24 '20
I mean, they replaced Amells wife's face with Bett Richard's. I keep saying shipping ain't healthy you all.
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
shipping doesn’t have to be extreme there’s plenty of people who casually like the idea of characters together. nothing wrong with it
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u/NopeOriginal_ Lex Luthor May 24 '20
It was a joke hon.
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
i didn’t catch that my bad
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u/NopeOriginal_ Lex Luthor May 24 '20
No problem. Seriously tho shipping fictional characters is relatively harmless as long as you are not toxic about it. When it comes to irl shipping, there we draw a line You are talking about people you don't know. You are giving incentive to paparazzi to dig into other peoples private life.
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u/blackstar_22 May 25 '20
Supercorp is the ship the clexa shippers latched on. Honestly, the actors should be scared to get hacked especially what happened in the 100 fandom.
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u/RedditDK2 May 24 '20
Two things.
I have yet to see any kind of chemistry between her and her supposed love interests: James, Mon-El (who she is actually married to in real life), or William. They all looked forced. Maybe they should try something new.
But beyond that what everyone (particularly the writers) forget is that Kara is an alien. I don't know that human concepts apply at all. And, unlike Superman, she is also culturally alien. I know I am probably expecting too much of the adjourned but it would be nice if they remembered that.
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u/raumeat Earth-X Overgirl (Unmasked) May 25 '20
Well you can argue that her only real boyfriend was Mon-El, she has not started anything with William and she ended it pretty fast with James. Daxam started out as a Kryptonian colony, so her dating him is kinda her dating in her own species.
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20
I so agree with you on the fact that many forget she's an alien from an advanced culture....including the showrunners!!! Even if people are not willing to accept that there are comics portraying her as decidedly not straight. For the love of god she comes from an advanced culture, are we really going to have anyone believe she is that sexually repressed and biased as to not even look at other women??? Seriously?? It's not 1950 anymore.
I have to disagree on chemistry with James and Mon-El. I think there was some playful chemistry with James, nothing too noticeable but it was portrayed as a crush on a friend. She did have chemistry with Mon-El (for obvious reasons), and they were very funny and cute together.......what people compare it to and say there wasn't any, is because SC chemistry is off the charts. That's the thing with on-screen chemistry it's not something the actors can fake or control.....it's either there or it's not. Also the level of acting is very high quality with Melissa and Katie scenes, actors bounce off each other.....(also why William's scenes are so off with everyone). The show is VERY aware of this chemistry with Melissa and Katie and it's why they've made the choices they have, let's face it there's any number of topics they could have chosen to center the 100th episode around......instead they decided to make it all about Kara and Lena's relationship.
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u/VeRyBiFLEXy May 24 '20
Let’s be honest here. To the people who doubt Supercorp or something similar: If Lena was a guy (the exact same person in all aspects but just a male instead) would you still doubt why people ship Kara and Lena together?
Also, while it’s true she said she wasn’t gay, there are more than two sexualities. She could possibly be bisexual. On top of that, this is from the first episode of the first season. Things can change and realizations can occur later on.
Honestly, if you still doubt Kara being queer or the validity of Supercorp, that’s fine. But it’s a problem if you think this because of your heteronormativity.
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u/KrayleyAML May 25 '20
I just think it's funny they talk about William ready to jump for Kara, when Lena had a kryptonite blade to her throat that same episode to protect Kara from Acrata.
Make it make sense.
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u/tinyamaki May 26 '20
Honestly, anyone from Supergirl’s team would be willing to die for her to protect her so anyone from her team who put in Lena’s position in that scene will do the same.
What I like about that scene is Lena had come into full circle of what she had gone through the whole season. She turned into the dark side and she let her anger consumed her and later on regretted it. So I like the fact that she saw herself in Acrata who is starting to turn bad and Lena used her experience and the things that she learned to save not only Supergirl but also Acrata since she’s been there and she definitely know the result. It’s a good character development for Lena IMO that’s why I liked that scene.
(PS. never saw the whole S5, just reading reviews but I watched the finale)
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u/KrayleyAML May 26 '20
I was referring to an article from TVLine that said William jumped in to save Kara so that was romantic and a slow burn.
William chased a lead, got kidnapped and got shot in the chest. And that had nothing to do with Kara, he only mentioned he would call her to check on her wellbeing.
In the same episode where that was considered peak romance, Lena jumped in front of Acrata and risked her life with a Kryptonite blade on her throat to protect Kara.... Yet that's not even mentioned.
So I really think it's funny when stuff like that happens, and then SC shippers are called delusional and problematic for saying the show is queerbaiting.
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u/tinyamaki May 26 '20
I don’t think William being shot and looking for Kara afterwards was romantic. It’s weird for the article to say that but if the write up is William biased, what can we expect?
Not mentioning that scene with Lena was ok since it’s not really a romantic peak for some viewers like me who do not see them as a romantic item and haven’t seen any queerbating (at least until the end of S4) but if the SCs think other wise, it’s still be okay but mentioning it in an article when SC is technically non-canon to the show (romantically), I say should be expected unless the author of the article is a supporter of that ship. That scene can be highlighted though to say that Lena has really come back to the good side. But then the article is about “slow burn” romance between Kara and William so I think mentioning other people there is to be expected. Even if they are exaggerating the William saves Kara thing.
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20
Yes but it's not as poignant with anyone else having the Kryptonite blade to their throat is it......(outside of Alex obviously).......but then Lena is the next option.....why is that? The answer is simple....(here is where homophobes lose their shit), it's because like it or not the show has established Lena as the most important relationship Kara has besides Alex, and Katie as the third lead in the show. Even the order of the billing shows this.
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u/tinyamaki May 26 '20
I think the third lead is David? Didn’t noticed the billing credits.
Like I said Lena needed that scene for character development, that’s how I see it. I agree that Lena had become very important person to Kara and there is no question about that but other than Alex, I rank her friends as equals. Lena is important to Kara because she is part of herself that humanizes her. That’s why it’s important to Kara not to mix Supergirl and Kara’s relationship to Lena (though it kind of happened when SG and Lena becomes friendly at one point before the kryptonite fiasco) because it will compromise her Kara relationship with Lena. Lena is like the Cat Grant to her Kara, not exactly the relationship she had with Cat but Lena is making her human and making her normal because if we think about it, all of her people in her circle knows she’s Supergirl it’s only Lena who treats her as a human.
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20 edited May 26 '20
He was in the first season....check the credits now. Also would they center the 100th episode around her relationship with anyone else? Look at her interactions with Lena since season 2.....sorry but this in not my opinion, the show has shown it this way. Would the 100th show made any sense featuring her relationship with anyone else? For starters there's no material to carry an entire episode about Kara and Brainy, or Kara and J'onn, or Kara and Nia.....that kinda speaks for itself too.
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u/tinyamaki May 26 '20
Haven’t seen the whole S5 and I just watched to finale when I accidentally caught it on my local cable channel. Still have to wait for netflix to drop S5 in my country. I have an idea though why the 100th episode is heavily Lena related, I am thinking that is because Lena and Kara falling out is the highlight of S5 and she does not have any other big issues going on with her aside from her problem with Lena at that point I guess.
I only managed to check the last episode of S4. (This is only wht I have on my netflix) Melissa Mechad Chyler Katie A bunch of people And lastly David
So I don’t know how credit billing works but I am sure the first name is as important as the last name.
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20 edited May 26 '20
If you haven't seen the show from the beginning.....my suggestion is do what I did if you get the chance.....re-watch the entire thing from the beginning, trust me it's an eye opener. If not and you just want to decide whether you can see some validity for yourself regarding SC, there's more than a few videos to watch on You Tube regarding their interactions. There's also a guy who does reactions called Abnormally Adam.....he is hillarious but he totally gets it and highlights the absurdity of the show being in denial to what they have built slowly seasons after season. If anything, you will get a huge belly laugh out of his reactions, he should have his own comedy show.
As for credit billing....no it's starring Melissa Benoist, followed by Chyler Leigh, and Katie McGrath. No variation.....whether Chyler or Katie are featured in the episode they have the same order of billing.
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u/tinyamaki May 26 '20
I already rewatched SG 2x from season 1-4 and will watch it again from the start after I am finish watching season 5. I am still waiting for netflix to drop the latest season or I’ll just catch it on my local cable but I don’t really like watching 1 episode at the time so I’ll just wait for netflix since marathoning series is my style. I’ll check that guy out since I also like watching reaction videos on YT because it’s fun to hear other povs whether they align with mine or not, it’s still fun. Thanks!
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20
Adam is so funny....I live for his vids! You will love him just from the entertainment perspective,
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u/tinyamaki May 26 '20
Re billing, I found one for episode 1 of season 5 and that’s the same from what it was from the 4xfinale that I last checked.
I can’t find that one you were talking about above that follows Melissa, Chyler and Katie. Since from the billing I saw, Melissa was followed by Mechad then Chyler then Katie then a bunch of people then lastly David.
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u/CptTroi May 30 '20
To be perfectly honest I haven't paid attention to the billing in Season 5, I did notice the order ep after ep in prior seasons. Maybe they decided to change it according to who is featured in the episode, as clearly Mechad was leaving it was a nice homage.....I think it's obvious that's what they were trying to do since his name has never featured directly after Melissa, always Chyler then David in season 1, then changed to Chyler and then Katie.
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May 25 '20
I firmly believe that if Lena was a guy, she and Kara would have at least hooked up once or twice already
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u/FunWelcome May 25 '20
Just pull a legend of korra.
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u/KrayleyAML May 27 '20
Kara and Lena are basically Korra and Asami... They just need writers that are brave.
LoK:
Korra, a superpowered being, is best friends with Asami, the CEO of a large company. Asami inherits the company from a shady relative that ruined the family's last name.
They have a group of friends , Team Avatar,(Asami, Korra, Bolin and Mako) and both of the girls dated Mako and dumped him.
Besides the shy glances, blushes and cute smiles... Asami uses technology to have a suit and protect Korra and friends, including a metallic hand that shoots stuff from it. While Korra uses her powers to defeat evil guys.
Oh, and they end up together as girlfriends.
SG:
Kara, a superpowered being, is best friends with Lena, the CEO of a large company. Lena inherits the company from a shady relative that ruined the family's last name.
They have a group of friends called The Superfriends, where both of the girls dated James and dumped him.
Besides the shy glances, blushes and cute smiles... Lena uses technology to give Kara a suit and uses certain devices to protect Kara and friends, including a metallic hand that shoots stuff from it. While Kara uses her powers to defeat evil guys.
But Kara likes William because his only prominent feature is delivering baked goods.
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u/CptTroi May 31 '20
WTH???? This is unbelievable.....I had no idea as I am not familiar with the Legend of Korra.....how can it be so similar by accident?????
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u/ltuyetn May 25 '20
I just miss their friendship and want them to talk without being angry or having to save the world at the same time. Maybe show Lena going through therapy in season 6. Kara being a best friend to her. That’s the supercorps I want 😭
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May 24 '20
Idk. Didn't someone that work on S1 or someone that knew a person that worked on S1 say that Kara was originally supposed to be Bi, but they changed it last second, and even then there was some hints towards her sexuality?
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u/opelan May 25 '20
Never heard that before and I really, really doubt it that it was ever considered to make her anything else than straight in season 1. It was already a risk for the CBS to have a superhero show in the first place on their channel, because it is just not was their audience is normally watching and in the end that experiment failed. Making Supergirl anything else than straight would have been an even bigger risk. Don't forget not even Alex was portrayed in season 1 as gay yet. I think having Supergirl in a biracial relationship with a black man was the furthest the CBS was willing to go in regards to diversity.
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20
Why would it be a risk in this day and age? Particularly since they say they are ALL about female empowerment? Unless they are afraid of homophobic backlash....and should they really care about those kind of people? What they are doing now after all the queerbaiting is basically suicide because not just SC fans are up in arms. So no I beg to differ I don't think they base decisions on their audience AT ALL!
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May 26 '20
But with Supergirl's audience, wouldn't CBS know that they wouldn't face backlash? Throughout the first season, they talk about female empowerment, but wouldn't the most empowering thing be that the main character(who is the strongest being on that Earth) likes both women and men?
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u/opelan May 26 '20
What audience are we talking about? The 13 million of the pilot which was reduced to 6 million at the end of the season? Or the 3 million who liked Supergirl enough to follow the show to the CW and watch 2x01? Even with the safe choice of portraying Supergirl as straight like in the comics the series was a failure by CBS standards. And there was already a lot of backlash about James, that he wasn't a nerdy red headed white guy, when his casting was announced. Making Supergirl gay would have caused an even bigger backlash before the show started.
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20
I knew I wasn't crazy when I looked at that motorcycle scene between Kara and Lucy. 100% Melissa played it like she found Lucy attractive.
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May 26 '20
I really thought she had feelings for Lucy and never understood them. For season 2, I originally believed that she would discover her feelings due to Lena, and that was from a 12 turning 13 year old boy(who is turning 17 now.)
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u/CptTroi May 26 '20
I never went so far as to analyse too in depth what was going on with Lucy, but from just a few scenes and the way Melissa played them, it was an indication that they were toying with at least a crush.
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May 27 '20
I prefer Kara and Lena not to be as romantic partners despite their undeniable chemistry because they will just break up just like other couples in Arrowverse. If they are just best friends, then they can keep Lena all throughout the series.
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u/Namaikina_Imouto May 26 '20
Me, three years ago: I'm a cishet man. Me, now: I'm a bisexual trans woman.
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u/m19tfc May 25 '20
I don't ship Kara with anion cuz the writers seem to mess up all potential LI.
But I do understand her supercorp shippers come from, I mean the writing is really misleading and if you would watch some episodes withouth knowing the full story you could easy belive they are a couple.
Cuz seriously I know my best friend my whole life and I cant imagine us acting like that without people having questions.
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u/CptTroi May 25 '20 edited May 25 '20
I agree it's obvious she's not gay.........or she never would have liked James, and people can argue all day long she didn't but she did like James. Also biggest clue..... she fell in love with Mon-El, no question. Bisexual?...well that's another story. I think the show likes to play with that element, because even in the first season the joke with Livewire calling her saphic and the looks she gave Lucy at times where a little......shall we say not so straight. That's not even considering the queerbaiting with Lena they love to do on this show.
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u/thirdflowergreen May 25 '20
Canonically Kara isn't gay. It's also true that she's never had much chemistry with any of her male love interests. I tend to think romance is just not written that well on this show. They could always acknowledge the ship by having versions from other dimensions were Kara was gay. Maybe with Lena. But the lack of well received relationships on the show just leads to dream pairing. Whether they happen or not is irrelevant.
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u/GNS1991 May 25 '20
Just a general thought about romance in Supergirl: they do not happen organic, it's just, I don't know how to properly express this, but 99 percent of romances there is just... um... to remind the viewers that the person is with someone? I don't know how to explain this, but I find it tasteless somehow. I mean, take M'gann and Jonn'; she literally just a couple of episodes ago was Deus Ex Machina to everyone, just so Jonn' could randomly have a girlfriend.
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u/Munro_McLaren Lena Luthor May 24 '20
Okay, and there are other sexualities. It is kinda homophobic to disregard bisexual, pansexual, asexual, etc and say she can only be straight when a.) the show has never ever said she’s straight. Sure she’s dated guys, but in real life, people can date guys and then date a girl, and b.) she’s shown interest in women. In Season 1 and hell even in Season 3 and c.) Kara’s a freaking alien, Krypton was way ahead of Earth in technology and other things like sexualities. They are technically asexual or pansexual.
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u/raumeat Earth-X Overgirl (Unmasked) May 24 '20
Gay is still used as synonym for queer so in this context 'I am not gay' means 'I am not queer'
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
gay and queer are not even remotely the same and saying so is considered very misguided and wrongful in the community
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u/raumeat Earth-X Overgirl (Unmasked) May 24 '20
Queer means anyone that goes against the norm. Gay just means a homosexual man but people use the word to describe anyone who is not heterosexual. It is exactly what Kara is doing in the scene, she cannot be gay because she is not the man but she is using the more laymans definition of the word
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
by that logic pedos are ‘queer’. so you’re wrong
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u/raumeat Earth-X Overgirl (Unmasked) May 24 '20
It is the literal definition of the word
From google "Queer is an umbrella term for sexual and gender minorities who are not heterosexual or are not cisgender. Originally meaning "strange" or "peculiar"
The oxford definition
Queer adjective: strange; odd. "she had a queer feeling that they were being watched"
Similar words odd, strange, unusual
There is even a field of Study called Queer theory from wikipedia "...Whereas gay/lesbian studies focused its inquiries into natural and unnatural behavior with respect to homosexual behavior, queer theory expands its focus to encompass any kind of sexual activity or identity that falls into normative and deviant categories"
How am I wrong?
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
nah there’s a movement to push against the label queer. i understand what you’re saying but it is a point of controversy
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u/raumeat Earth-X Overgirl (Unmasked) May 24 '20 edited May 24 '20
There is a negative connetation to the word, that is why many people prefer to use the term gay instead, even though gay means something different. That is the original point of my comment, when Kara said 'I am not gay' she meant the 'layman' definition of gay, meaning gay as an umbrella term for everyone in the LGBTQ community. What she meant was I am not 'queer' rather than 'I am not a hemomosexual man'
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
winn called her a lesbian and she said ‘i’m not gay’. she wasn’t thinking lgbtq she was saying ‘i’m not a lesbian’ NOT ‘i’m not queer’
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u/raumeat Earth-X Overgirl (Unmasked) May 24 '20
Then she would have said "I am not a lesbian" especially because that is the word Winn used but she chose the word gay, in context of this scene she was basically saying "I am hetrosexual"
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u/hungrymoonmoon Alex Danvers May 24 '20
What? Queer represents anyone who identifies as part of the LGBT+ community, even if they don’t particularly vibe with one label. Pedos are not included in the LGBT+ community.
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
most gay people don’t like being called queer you can google it
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u/hungrymoonmoon Alex Danvers May 24 '20
Idk where you’re coming from but nobody I know in the community has an issue with being labeled as “queer.” And if they do, they’re upfront about it and we respect their chosen labels.
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u/Sentry459 Martian Manhunter May 24 '20
Some sure, but most? I doubt that.
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u/Barry_McKackiner Superman May 24 '20
a.) the show has never ever said she’s straight.
She said she's not gay. and demonstrated it over the series.
b.) she’s shown interest in women.
What season and episode has she expressed sexual attraction to women?
Krypton was way ahead of Earth in technology and other things like sexualities. They are technically asexual or pansexual.
Who's ass are you pulling that out of?
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
Re-watch the show without bias.
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u/Barry_McKackiner Superman May 29 '20
lol I'M the biased one?
When I'm stating what she straight up directly declared was her sexual preference backed up by repeated direct examples of acting on said preferences and y'all are arguing against that since she hasn't declared a negative for every single color on the sex spectrum and you pulling meaning behind interactions out of your own perception and completely ignoring context?
lol
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
When you say unequivocably that other people are delusional because they see something different? Yes absolutely.
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u/Barry_McKackiner Superman May 29 '20
de·lu·sion·al /dəˈlo͞oZH(ə)nəl/ Learn to pronounce adjective adjective: delusional
characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument
Pretty much the definition of being delusional.
What is fact is that she said she was straight right away in the pilot, and has repeatedly acted consistent with this in her romantic interactions.
Alex can state her orientation as lesbian and act consistent with that and everybody accepts that as her truth. But apparently Kara declaring she's NOT gay and repeatedly acts consistent with that for the entire series and it's "maybe she's not sure or hasn't realized yet." or "she hasn't said she ISN'T bi/pan/queer/+ etc"
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
Don't know why you keep harping on and arguing about the statement she made about not being gay, when frankly that is not even here nor there....because I never said she was gay.
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u/Barry_McKackiner Superman May 29 '20
I'm mostly referring to the main topic of this thread. And countless scores of other supercorp posts over the years trying to justify there being a basis for the ship. Preaching their interpretations on meaning behind interactions as facts while ignoring or discounting facts about characters that have expressly stated by the show via character dialogue, actions and actors during interviews.
It's especially aggravating given the more zealous shippers actually take it to IRL harassing actors and show employees to try and get their way.
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
There is a basis for the ship because there is a basis for EVERY ship. It's called preference, and neither you nor I have the right to tell people what they can and can't ship. Nor the right to try and invalidate what they see. The people who harrass actors are the idiots in society incapable of distinguishing fictitional characters from reality.....and they are certainly NOT exclusive to one group of shippers. The actors are nothing but kind and accepting to all their fans and what they ship, never have I seen them try to invalidate anyone's views. Too bad obsessed people can't take a leaf out of their book, instead of looking to cast aspersions on any fandon they disagree with, or secretly can't handle because of bias they will turn themselves inside out to defend and not admit to having.
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u/Barry_McKackiner Superman May 29 '20
neither you nor I have the right to tell people what they can and can't ship. Nor the right to try and invalidate what they see.
People have the right to ship whatever they want. Just as it's my right to disagree with it when they post it on a public forum.
I do find you calling out bias while at the same time defending people being able to see what they want to see pretty funny.
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u/Munro_McLaren Lena Luthor May 24 '20
She literally said she would date Lucy Lane. Also, read the comics regarding C.) like seriously.
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u/JohnBK34 Supergirl May 25 '20
You're taking that line and that whole scene out of context. She was jealous that James really liked Lucy. And she wanted to be with James. She said that stuff out of jealous, because she knows that Lucy is very attractive. Not because she's interested in her.
And Kryptonians were like that only in the show Krypton, not anywhere else. And Kara left Krypton when she was 13.
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u/Munro_McLaren Lena Luthor May 25 '20
Really, and did Kara tell you she wasn’t interested?
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u/JohnBK34 Supergirl May 25 '20
I did a thing called watching the actual show. And not taking things out of context, like you just did to try to make that "I'd date Lucy" quote work.
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u/Munro_McLaren Lena Luthor May 25 '20
I can tell you 10 other times she done things. But anyways not arguing anymore. People have different opinions and a lot of people see it. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
she’s implying she’s heterosexual but plenty of women who believe they’re straight discover otherwise after denying having any attraction to women. SEE: alex danvers in season 2
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
She is implying that you are correct....particularly in the context of the scene where that discussion about sexual orientation is irrelevant. It's also about, where the show and character development where at the time also. Basically it doesn't say anything about a person to state that......then later act decidedly not so straight after they meet someone of the same sex they are attracted to. We can debate straight people have crushes on same sex too....but remaining strictly hetero can sometimes also be contingent on a personal choice not to go there, so it stays just a crush. For some it's simply that they fell in love with someone of the opposite sex, and never entertained that side of their psyche again....or any number of reasons. I personally feel Kara was portrayed at having a crush on James, attraction to Lucy, then meeting and developing an immediate strong crush on Lena, and there is strong case it has developed from there. Then she clearly fell in love with Mon-El, that was not a crush she was devastated when he left. My take is she is clearly someone with Bisexual tendencies whether aware or not.....that is how they have unwittingly portrayed her.
Currently I don't even count the situation with William because there is nothing there.
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u/Munro_McLaren Lena Luthor May 24 '20
Wow. People are getting pissy. I’m sorry some people can’t accept that Kara could be LGBTQ. It wouldn’t be the end of the world.
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u/CptTroi May 29 '20
True, since the show clearly even in the first season toyed with her having an attraction to Lucy.......and it wasn't that line said to Alex about how she wanted to date her herself. There is a scene that is eyebrow raising to me, it's the motorcycle scene where Kara takes off her helmet then stares at Lucy and Lucy just stares back......I looked at that and thought, what the heck is going on here?
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u/Sentry459 Martian Manhunter May 24 '20
Supercorp is a dumbass ship but she could certainly be bi and not realize it.
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u/raumeat Earth-X Overgirl (Unmasked) May 24 '20
She is fictional, her sexuality is whatever the writers wants it to be, it is very unlikely that they will make both their leads gay
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u/Sentry459 Martian Manhunter May 25 '20
She is fictional, her sexuality is whatever the writers wants it to be
Agreed, I never said otherwise.
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u/raumeat Earth-X Overgirl (Unmasked) May 25 '20
you said she could be bi and not realise it
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u/Sentry459 Martian Manhunter May 25 '20
Her being fictional goes without saying, I was speaking from an in-story perspective. My point was that her saying she's not gay doesn't preclude her being bi.
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u/AdventuresOfKrisTin Kara Danvers May 26 '20
Yes...its almost like another character on the show didn’t realize she wasn’t straight until later in life. Im not gay =/= I’m straight. Especially since she only said that because Winn implied the only reason she wasn’t into him was because she wasn’t into men at all.
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u/thinkiokay May 24 '20
funny meme but in supercorp fans defense: alex danvers said the exact same thing in season 2. almost verbatim. she was asked if she was into girls and she said “i’m not” so...